Rhine water levels 2022 and similar topics

[notamermaid]

7 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Abladetiefe seems to be a much more useful concept for freight carrying riverships/barges.

The whole thing about Abladetiefe and the draft is of course designed for those ships, as you correctly point out. To be brutally honest, river cruise ships are not really "of commercial interest". Other than sporadically mentioned in news articles, we do not hear about the problems of river cruising. It is a slight financial worry for places like Rüdesheim on the Rhine or indeed as in DavidPlunkett's case the monastery that will not entertain guests in the evening. There may be contracts that cover events and their providers in such a case but the casual stroller in town, etc. is not coming. The only one profitting is the excursion boat company that Viking must have booked tickets for. But that as a side note only. What I am getting at is that what is intended for other ships we can use to some extent for river cruise ships. The laws of physics are the same.

 

7 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Cruise ships don't have such variable loads.

Indeed, it is what makes the difference in practice. You can only unload a river cruise ship so much. Get the people off the boat (mostly for safety), drain the swimming pool, reduce contents of the water tanks. That is about it. Throw the wine bottles over board. Nooo! - Okay, not doing that!

 

7 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Wow! so much to have to consider it's a wonder more boats don't run aground.

 Call me superstitious but I need to say it: Please do not tempt the ladies, that are Fate and the sisters Lorelei and Isar. They have no mercy!

 

 

Now that we know how to calculate, here is some more to keep you busy with numbers. What we have seen for Kaub as an example you can work out for other gauges, here using tonight's figures:

Worms, GlW 72cm, TuGLW 210cm, gauge 40cm

Koblenz, GlW 78cm, TuGLW 210cm, gauge 58cm

Cologne, GlW 139cm, TuGLW 250cm, gauge 102cm

 

That's it for tonight, my flat is 30 Celsius, I have no air conditioning. Nature including me is suffering. I am sooo looking forward to my next shift at work, where I can sit happily with remote control in hand listening to the sound of cool air blasting into my office at my will.

notamermaid

 

 

 

[DavidPlunkett]

@notamermaid, indeed, it is Eberbach. 

[Canal archive]

In these water conditions speed is also key, the slower the better, go fast and the ship displaces more water from under the keel so you get bottom scrape (I know seems nasty and sounds worse).

The air condition in my archive is awful so trying to keep conditions for photographs, slides and papers is a constant battle and working in a non air conditioned area is sticky to say the least.

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, Canal archive said:

go fast and the ship displaces more water from under the keel so you get bottom scrape

Indeed. Something that is not necessarily immediately dangerous as you can allow for a bit of sand and gravel whirled up. Propellers do it all the time and the Rhine is regularly checked for such deposits forming as a result of the constant traffic. Too much sand and gravel and you get stuck of course and may damage propeller and hull. The biggest problem is the rock in the Rhine Gorge. Better not scrape that. While most of it in the deep navigation channel has been blasted, in the so-called Binger Loch that is, remaining rocks get more exposed at low water and increase the danger, small that it may be. You can see the exposed rocks at Oberwesel when you sail past, they are the "Seven Maidens" or for the shipping industry "Jungferngrund", or at Bingen/Rüdesheim what remains of the former blasted ridge. There is even a Wikipedia page on it in German called Untiefen des Rheins, "Untiefe" literally translates as "undepth", nice photos: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untiefen_des_Rheins

 

Kaub gauge is at 55cm, for Saturday the 50cm come into view.

 

notamermaid

 

[BMoreE]

Hot off presses: Viking Hermod, departed Tuesday from Amsterdam (Day 1.) destined for Basel. 

 

Visited all original ports so far. 

 

Evening in Cologne, announced swap from Hermod to Sigyn.

 

Luggage must be packed outside room by 8AM (Day 4.)

 

Go on Koblenz tours as normal during day 4.

 

They rented a boat to take us through Gorge tour, departing from Goarhausen.

 

After gorge, taking 2.5 hr bus to Strasbourg to get on sister ship. 

 

Will miss Day 5 port Speyer; no idea what will take its place. Sit on ship and drink?

 

My advice going through it (including reading this thread for weeks and worrying about water levels): stop worrying about that which you cannot control! It’s been beyond expectations so far.  Sounds like Viking has this down pat, but will let y’all know our experience. If the bus will ruin your trip for you, don’t risk it: Water is visibly low on the rocks as we pass. But if you can go with the flow, don’t stress and enjoy the experience.

 

[grandmailu]

46 minutes ago, BMoreE said:

My advice going through it (including reading this thread for weeks and worrying about water levels): stop worrying about that which you cannot control! It’s been beyond expectations so far.  Sounds like Viking has this down pat, but will let y’all know our experience. If the bus will ruin your trip for you, don’t risk it: Water is visibly low on the rocks as we pass. But if you can go with the flow, don’t stress and enjoy the experience.

Amen, BMoreE! The cruise may not be exactly what you thought it was going to be when you booked it, but you are still making memories and will have stories to tell, just different ones than you would have had with normal water levels. Let your cruise company do the stressing! Thank you for sharing your experiences!

[notamermaid]

Thank you for your thoughts. Viking has so much experience with the ship swaps, I am confident it will all run well. As you say, do not stress over it.

53 minutes ago, BMoreE said:

They rented a boat to take us through Gorge tour, departing from Goarhausen.

Indeed a different experience but you will get the "local tourist with sausage, cake and cheap apple juice" fun. Besides all the castles. And that is something to remember.

As a side note, I am a bit surprised that they go from Koblenz/St. Goarshausen straight to Strasbourg.  I wonder if it is logistics or the water level being already too low for comfort in Worms. I had assumed the ship would go down to Mainz and turn round.

 

notamermaid

 

[su-arizona]

Those of us who booked while Viking offered the "Risk Free Guarantee" may chose to skip the Rhine cruise while water levels are low, and Covid transmission rates are high.

 

All frequently cruisers have experienced changes of some sort, but long bus rides with a highly contagious Covid variant may not be the best time to "go with the flow" (or lack of flow!) if we have the option of changing the cruise.

 

So all the good information being shared here helps in making a choice of cruising now, or waiting for better conditions.  It's really helpful hearing about the changes from folks currently on Viking Rhine cruises between Amsterdam and Basel.  Thanks for all your posts!  😀🚌🛳️

[notamermaid]

Let us assume you are going on a river cruise ship and the thought of being in a low water situation, especially being on a bus, does make you nervous. It may be a bit of a challenge if you are not fully mobile. Getting on and off the ship I am sure the dedicated crews and staff will always help. The buses are usually real coaches for day trips and holidays. The two I have seen used by Viking look very modern and comfortable. They usually have (tiny) toilets on board as well, it is kind of customary at least in Germany.

 

Admittedly, this is an extreme example but it is taken right from a recent river cruise courtesy of a river cruiser (and relative) happy to post in this thread (thank you!):

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2867666-viking-status-request-if-sailing-now/#comment-63655114

 

The landing stage steel construction is right down in the photo, what an incline.

 

If you are on a river cruise or going to go on one, all the best. Enjoy the experience as much as you can.

 

Now let us assume, you are thinking of booking. You have seen the photo in the thread above. Apart from that do much research if you are not fully mobile and cannot accept things not running smoothly. I personally have a bit of an issue (just a tiny bit) with companies showing all the glossy photos and the videos of ships docking right in town, etc. You know what I mean. I am of the personal opinion that on the Rhine, Danube and Elbe, if you cannot walk up and down twenty steps unaided. i.e need more than a cane and one railing, and/or cannot sit on a coach for more than 30 minutes, a river cruise is not for you.

 

I will get back to the docking situation in low water tomorrow.

 

notamermaid

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by notamermaid

[travellovervic]

4 hours ago, BMoreE said:

Hot off presses: Viking Hermod, departed Tuesday from Amsterdam (Day 1.) destined for Basel. 

 

Visited all original ports so far. 

 

Evening in Cologne, announced swap from Hermod to Sigyn.

 

Luggage must be packed outside room by 8AM (Day 4.)

 

Go on Koblenz tours as normal during day 4.

 

They rented a boat to take us through Gorge tour, departing from Goarhausen.

 

After gorge, taking 2.5 hr bus to Strasbourg to get on sister ship. 

 

Will miss Day 5 port Speyer; no idea what will take its place. Sit on ship and drink?

 

My advice going through it (including reading this thread for weeks and worrying about water levels): stop worrying about that which you cannot control! It’s been beyond expectations so far.  Sounds like Viking has this down pat, but will let y’all know our experience. If the bus will ruin your trip for you, don’t risk it: Water is visibly low on the rocks as we pass. But if you can go with the flow, don’t stress and enjoy the experience.

 

Thank you for your update!  Really appreciated it.

We will go on the Hermod a week later: Aug 16 from A to B.

At least we are mentally prepared - to have a good time, regardless!

[RDVIK2016]

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

 

As a side note, I am a bit surprised that they go from Koblenz/St. Goarshausen straight to Strasbourg.  I wonder if it is logistics or the water level being already too low for comfort in Worms. I had assumed the ship would go down to Mainz and turn round.

 

notamermaid

 

Where will passengers be picked up by their bus? Bacharach, Bingen/Rüdesheim? 

 

Mainz/Wiesbaden, Worms, Speyer - even Mannheim/Ludwigshafen would be shorter bus rides from the St. Goarhausen excursion boat.  Between them there should be enough docks.  How about turning basins, though? 

 

Anyway the Speyer or Heidelberg shore excursions on Viking Getaway's day 5 should still be doable even from Strasbourg. 

[akronmaid]

On 8/3/2022 at 3:18 PM, DavidPlunkett said:

We are on the Viking Gymir, which currently is in Strasbourg, heading from Basel to Amsterdam. We were told this evening we will be swapping to the Egdir tomorrow due to the low water level. (Interestingly, the Egdir was to be our ship originally.)

 

@MDPastor, the Eir also is docked here today, so, yes, it made it through the gorge coming from Amsterdam. 
 

@su-arizona and @purpleduck, regarding luggage, we are to have our bags outside our door by 8:30 in the morning. That includes our carryons. Viking will transfer everything while we are enjoying the walking tour and time on our own for lunch in Speyer. (We will receive a $25/person shipboard credit to cover the cost of lunch.) We then will be bussed to meet the Egdir in Braubach. Unfortunately, the optional excursions scheduled for tomorrow evening all have been canceled. (The wine dinner at the Cistercian monastery was the excursion I was most looking forward to!) 

 

@Haqdeluxe, we were told the only member of the crew making the swap with us is the cruise director. 

 

We have been promised we still will see the gorge and the castles from the water on Friday on an excursion boat that still is able to navigate the shallow water. 

Thank you! We are scheduled for the Egdir on Aug. 28. Your post was most reassuring. Hope you had a great trip!

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

12 hours ago, travellovervic said:

Thank you for your update!  Really appreciated it.

We will go on the Hermod a week later: Aug 16 from A to B.

At least we are mentally prepared - to have a good time, regardless!

Can’t read the typeface on my phone. Please use ‘default’ type and size. 

[notamermaid]

We have had rain over night. Enough to create small puddles and water the plants briefly. It was localized thunderstorms, sweeping over large areas but not creating this full cover of a vast area of land that we need. After 36 to 48 hours of pleasant refreshed air, it is supposed to heat up again. Will see what happens.

 

Kaub gauge: 54cm. That is as low as yesterday at the same time. Forecast suggests the rain was enough to keep the level stable into Monday with a few centimetres higher on the scale (58 to 60). I am not convinced but happy to be proven otherwise.

 

And just to say this again. Newspaper stories of the Rhine "drying up" and being too low for ships are rubbish. Even the experts on Binnenschifferforum are commenting on that. Small-ish barges with reduced load can sail with just 40cm at Kaub. No problem. The large ones will stop sailing one after the other but small ones can still sail, also when the level falls below 40cm. You just need the maths of river level, hull (including propeller) and load. A video interview with a WSA spokesperson (the waterway authorities) uttered a similar fact. One gets the feeling that news outlets have upped the "sensation scale". What was on the level "bad" in 2018 (when it was really bad) is now "very bad" in 2022 (when it is not really bad yet).Which does not take away the facts and the worry but you know, steady on, we have seen worse.

 

notamermaid

 

[travellovervic]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Thank you for your update!  Really appreciated it.

We will go on the Hermod a week later: Aug 16 from A to B.

At least we are mentally prepared - to have a good time, regardless!

better?

[BMoreE]

21 hours ago, BMoreE said:

Hot off presses: Viking Hermod

 

They rented a boat to take us through Gorge tour, departing from Goarhausen.

 

After gorge, taking 2.5 hr bus to Strasbourg to get on sister ship. 

 

 

Just getting off the gorge replacement cruise in Bingen. Catching bus to swap ship to continue south. (4pm local time, supposed to have us to new ship by 6:30.)

 

Gorge cruise was beautiful; mediocre food but good beer so who cares!

 

Oh: 2 ships combined on the gorge cruise; other one was Viking AMS->Budapest? We are AMS to Basel.  

[notamermaid]

22 minutes ago, BMoreE said:

Gorge cruise was beautiful; mediocre food but good beer so who cares!

Lovely. Good beer definitely more important than good food in this weather.

Thanks for the update. Have a nice ride. Looks to be almost all motorway with that timing. But some stretches are nice landscape I find, should be pleasant. If you have time could you please tell us if it is the French side or via Karlsruhe (M5)?

Have a beautiful evening in Strasbourg.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

20 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I will get back to the docking situation in low water tomorrow.

I have mentioned before that docking can be tricky in low water. Standard along the river are the steel constructions that have a pontoon fixed to them at the end and therefore rise and fall with the water level. In this low water situation they can be deep down like in the photo in the thread that I linked to above. Depending on location they vary in length and also take into consideration which ships are supposed to dock there. It is possible and is happening right now that some docking locations for safety reasons cannot be used. Several excursion boats also face the problem in the Rhine Gorge.

 

What this can look like literally you can see at the christening of the Amalucia. It immediately struck my that the celebratory assembly is standing very much on rocks sort of below the embankment to be at the photo shoot height to get the ship with her name into the picture like this! The pontoon looks almost to be on dry ground. The river bed must be deepening quite sharply at that point I think, otherwise the huge ship, well, her captain, would not be able to navigate there. Have a look:

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/travel-agents/amawaterways-christens-latest-vessel-on-the-rhine

 

Thankfully the pontoon construction looks to be a more convenient kind. It may be a new one, Rüdesheim has been very active. I must have a look next time I am there.

 

On the hull at the bow you can see the marker lines for the draught.

 

notamermaid

 

[Canal archive]

Would that be the plymsole line?

[RDVIK2016]

59 minutes ago, Canal archive said:

Would that be the plymsole line?

Kind of related to the the plimsoll line, I think. Those marks just show the current static draught of the ship. The plimsoll line marker would show the maximum draught to operate a ship safely - like if you loaded too much gravel on a bulk carrier and did not leave a safe margin of freeboard. This ship has normal draught of 1.5 meters according to Vesselfinder. I doubt if they would ballast it down much more than 50 cm so I guess if the black paint, the top of which is at about 2 meters, is not showing one might suspect something is amiss, like the boat is overloaded or taking on water - that would serve the function of a ersatz plimsoll line. 

 

@Notameraid, please add to this or correct me if I am way off.

RDVIK

[RDVIK2016]

4 hours ago, BMoreE said:

 

Gorge cruise was beautiful; mediocre food but good beer so who cares!

 

In this heat ask for a Radler. Beer with lemon soda - sometimes other fruit soda - but usually not overly fruity or sweet. It's more refreshing than regular beer in the heat and is barely half the ABV.  No problem drinking three Maß at a beerfest unlike with the regular Festbier.  (But still don't drive)

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, RDVIK2016 said:

@Notameraid, please add to this or correct me if I am way off.

RDVIK

I am a laywoman in this, so I had to look up Plimsoll line. I am not familiar with English terms and not good with German ones. The explanation I have found is that what you see on the Amalucia is the inland waterway ship equivalent to that line, in German Einsenkungsmarke. The principle idea and purpose appears to be the same and I would think you are right also otherwise. So this non-navigating girl can add nothing...

 

57 minutes ago, RDVIK2016 said:

In this heat ask for a Radler.

A good idea. Also if one does not mind that sort of thing, alcohol-free beer is often available. The taste can be okay. I find apple juice a bit sweet on its own, so I like Apfelsaftschorle. That is apple juice mixed with mineral water. Can be a bit thin on taste but is very refreshing.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by notamermaid
wrong word

[Canal archive]

Plimsoll - looked up the correct reason it’s the reference to the line on a ships hull showing the safe depth the ship can be loaded to so, - load, - line lowers to water level, -safe, line goes below water level, - unsafe. Now we can all look for the line named after Samual Plimsoll a merchant and an internationally agreed reference. It’s also colloquially a name for a type of gym shoe. Tah-dah 🥱

[BMoreE]

13 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

 

In this heat ask for a Radler.

For sure! Had one at a brauhaus in Köln, very refreshing. Currently riding bus to Speyer for the days tour, 90 minutes from a shipyard at Stras. Which is not a very picturesque place to hang out on the ship all day. (Although 3 more hours on the bus no picnic either.)
 

A big downside of the swap: no cruising 2 nights in a row. Just not as enjoyable having that nightly drink on deck when next to container ships instead of passing villages. 😞 

 

But still better than NOT being on vacation! We feel lucky!

[Canal archive]

Sometimes a better name would be the ‘star deck’ rather than the ‘sun deck’ that late evening drink in the summer is something special!