Escape currently stuck on a sand bar leaving Puerto Plata

[deliver42]

It was caused by strong winds. Nothing could be done. 

[Battleship88]

any updates on when the escape will attempt to leave the port again?

[chengkp75]

Okay, let's address the Captain/Pilot relationship first.  The Captain, with two exceptions (the Panama Canal, and entering/leaving a drydock), is always responsible for whatever happens to the ship, regardless of who caused it, or why.  The Pilot is a person with local knowledge, who is typically (but not always) "given the conn", meaning the Captain grants the pilot the authority to give commands to the bridge team, just as any ship's deck officer is given the conn when assuming their routine watch at sea, as the Captain is not on the bridge every single minute.  There are specific and involved procedures during the "Master to Pilot exchange" just as there is for bridge officers exchanging the conn when switching from one watch to another.  Yes, the Captain can overrule the pilot at any time, and he has "overriding authority"  (meaning no one can overrule him) for the safety of the ship, but remember that the pilot is a representative of the port state, and the laws of the port state apply within the port limits, so any accident will be investigated by the port state, and relieving the pilot will come under scrutiny.

 

Now, it sounds like the port has dredged a narrow channel to the dock, and only enough area at the dock for the ship, and quite near the ship the water is very shallow again.  This kind of port leads to frequent groundings, from a variety of things. The most dangerous is "canal effect" where pushing a large ship through a narrow and shallow channel, forces the water out of the channel, creating low pressure areas both below and to each side of the ship, which can cause the ship to veer into the side of the channel, sometimes very quickly and without warning.  I suspect that the ship leaving at high tide, caused a maximum relative water velocity (incoming tide opposing ship motion outbound), which exacerbated the canal effect.  I see that there are reports of strong winds, which combined with the canal effect makes a grounding much more probable.

 

As for the azipods, these do not protrude beyond the sides of the ship, and the areas where this happen tend to be soft, sandy material, so I doubt that the pods were affected.

Edited March 15, 2022 by chengkp75

[dolfan1980]

1 hour ago, deliver42 said:

It was caused by strong winds. Nothing could be done. 

 

This wouldn't hold up in the marine academy.  You make decisions based on weather, tides, etc before you decide to go somewhere or not.  

[jasong38501]

2 hours ago, shof515 said:

Because of the Escape is at the pier , the Encore is now docked at Carnival Amber Cove port area which is near Puerto Plata

 

The Carnival Horizon ship was suppose to dock at Amber Cove today and now it appears they can not is a few miles away from the harbor

Amber Cove can handle two ships and Horizon appears alongside now. Can Puerto Plata only hold one ship? Just curious if Escape being there means it's full or if NCL isn't ready for another ship to dock there yet while they get the Escape situation handled. 

[www3traveler]

Current status of The Escape- staying moored to the dock until 4 P.M. local time according to postings on another social media site.

[Karaboudjan]

2 hours ago, jasong38501 said:

Amber Cove can handle two ships and Horizon appears alongside now. Can Puerto Plata only hold one ship? Just curious if Escape being there means it's full or if NCL isn't ready for another ship to dock there yet while they get the Escape situation handled. 

 

We were docked at Taino Bay along with Celebrity.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Karaboudjan
Fix a word

[aswmammoth]

We are on the Escape this Saturday.  I happened to look on NCLs site at our sailing, and they are currently not booking for next week.  This is what you see at first:

But when you click on a room category, you get this:

Really hoping our cruise is not cancelled!

[GeezerCouple]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Okay, let's address the Captain/Pilot relationship first.  The Captain, with two exceptions (the Panama Canal, and entering/leaving a drydock), is always responsible for whatever happens to the ship, regardless of who caused it, or why.  The Pilot is a person with local knowledge, who is typically (but not always) "given the conn", meaning the Captain grants the pilot the authority to give commands to the bridge team, just as any ship's deck officer is given the conn when assuming their routine watch at sea, as the Captain is not on the bridge every single minute.  There are specific and involved procedures during the "Master to Pilot exchange" just as there is for bridge officers exchanging the conn when switching from one watch to another.  Yes, the Captain can overrule the pilot at any time, and he has "overriding authority"  (meaning no one can overrule him) for the safety of the ship, but remember that the pilot is a representative of the port state, and the laws of the port state apply within the port limits, so any accident will be investigated by the port state, and relieving the pilot will come under scrutiny.

 

Now, it sounds like the port has dredged a narrow channel to the dock, and only enough area at the dock for the ship, and quite near the ship the water is very shallow again.  This kind of port leads to frequent groundings, from a variety of things. The most dangerous is "canal effect" where pushing a large ship through a narrow and shallow channel, forces the water out of the channel, creating low pressure areas both below and to each side of the ship, which can cause the ship to veer into the side of the channel, sometimes very quickly and without warning.  I suspect that the ship leaving at high tide, caused a maximum relative water velocity (incoming tide opposing ship motion outbound), which exacerbated the canal effect.  I see that there are reports of strong winds, which combined with the canal effect makes a grounding much more probable.

 

As for the azipods, these do not protrude beyond the sides of the ship, and the areas where this happen tend to be soft, sandy material, so I doubt that the pods were affected.

 

Thanks very much.

I've always wondered about that aspect of the relationship between the Captain and the Pilot.  (Hmmm, sounds like an interesting book title:  "Between the Captain and the Pilot"... 😉 ) 

 

GC

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Thanks very much.

I've always wondered about that aspect of the relationship between the Captain and the Pilot.  (Hmmm, sounds like an interesting book title:  "Between the Captain and the Pilot"... 😉 ) 

 

GC

You will note that I said the pilot can give orders to the bridge crew.  That is the limit of his "docking the ship".  As someone who is not employed by the shipowner, the pilot cannot touch any of the controls, he must give the ship's officers and crew orders to do what he wishes.  Pilots are hesitant even to change the range display on ship's radars, asking permission to do so first.

[GeezerCouple]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

You will note that I said the pilot can give orders to the bridge crew.  That is the limit of his "docking the ship".  As someone who is not employed by the shipowner, the pilot cannot touch any of the controls, he must give the ship's officers and crew orders to do what he wishes.  Pilots are hesitant even to change the range display on ship's radars, asking permission to do so first.

 

Is it extremely uncommon for there to be some, er, tension between the Captain and the Pilot in terms of "how" wrt navigating in any slightly iffy conditions?

(You know, such as a narrow/shallow channel, tides changing, windy... !)

 

And IF a Pilot *really* thinks that the Captain is about to make a potentially serious error, do they "shut up and make a mental note" or is there some official way to register a significant concern?

 

GC

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

Is it extremely uncommon for there to be some, er, tension between the Captain and the Pilot in terms of "how" wrt navigating in any slightly iffy conditions?

(You know, such as a narrow/shallow channel, tides changing, windy... !)

There are pilots that Captains don't like, and sometimes they will tell the bridge crew in advance to look to the Captain for a nod before actually fulfilling the pilot's orders.  But, generally, both have a vested interest in getting the ship safely into and out of the port, so they work together.

 

10 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

And IF a Pilot *really* thinks that the Captain is about to make a potentially serious error, do they "shut up and make a mental note" or is there some official way to register a significant concern?

Again, I think you are confusing things.  The Captain gives the pilot the conn, and then shuts up about how to maneuver the ship, and doesn't give orders.  Legally, the person who is given the conn, and it is required to be a verbal acknowledgement "the pilot has the conn", is the only person who can give commands.  If the Captain feels that he needs to countermand the pilot, he must first announce "Captain has the conn", and then issue his orders.  The failure of Schettino to make this verbal notification when he started giving commands on the Concordia, is one thing that led to confusion on the part of the helmsman.  The only time a pilot would have to complain about what a Captain does, is if the pilot is relieved or countermanded.  Then, depending on the country, he could file a grievance against the Captain with the local Maritime Authority, but if nothing happened, there would likely be no investigation.  Captains can refuse a pilot based on previous service, but again, that is a serious charge against someone that the port state says has their trust to handle ships in that harbor.

Edited March 15, 2022 by chengkp75

[vicnsue]

51 minutes ago, aswmammoth said:

We are on the Escape this Saturday.  I happened to look on NCLs site at our sailing, and they are currently not booking for next week.  This is what you see at first:

But when you click on a room category, you get this:

Really hoping our cruise is not cancelled!

Just my opinion, but i believe booking is probably closed because it is too close to the sailing date.

[resetjet]

They are stuck there for a bit.  They need to send divers down to access any damage and the authorities and the insurance company need to sign off before they can go if any damage occurs.  Usually takes days,  not hours.  
 

we got stuck on a celebrity ship(summit?) that hit an iceberg(they said rock) at hubbard glacier ripping a 16’ gash in the side of the ship and bending the propeller.   We had to wait for them to weld a box to contain the gash,  but the coast guard and loyds of london took days. Then we continued on one engine,  the bad propellor spun anyway and it was thump,  thump,  thump.  

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, resetjet said:

They are stuck there for a bit.  They need to send divers down to access any damage and the authorities and the insurance company need to sign off before they can go if any damage occurs.  Usually takes days,  not hours.  
 

we got stuck on a celebrity ship(summit?) that hit an iceberg(they said rock) at hubbard glacier ripping a 16’ gash in the side of the ship and bending the propeller.   We had to wait for them to weld a box to contain the gash,  but the coast guard and loyds of london took days. Then we continued on one engine,  the bad propellor spun anyway and it was thump,  thump,  thump.  

Actually, if divers are available, and the Chief Engineer and Captain attest that there is no serious internal structural damage, it could be done in a day, with the surveyor giving conditional approval to sail to the next port for a more intensive survey.  Countries like the DR typically delegate investigations like this to the class surveyor anyway, so it really depends on the availability of a surveyor.  The closest DNV surveyor (that is the society NCL uses) is in Miami, its a large office, they could have had a surveyor on the way within hours of being notified of the grounding.

[bluenose1]

7 hours ago, Jimbo said:

or the Captain had a lady friend in the bridge.

Elwha on the rock's. Oct 1983. LOL

[shof515]

read on FB, current cruise is cancel. everyone is getting a full refund and a free plane ride back to Orlando

Edited March 15, 2022 by shof515

[Javajitterz]

Cruise was just cancelled. Passengers will be debarked over the next 2 days into Puerto Plata and chartered home

 

[Javajitterz]

https://www.facebook.com/1633762360/videos/4694364854026030/

[Aplmac]

10 hours ago, deliver42 said:

It was caused by strong winds. Nothing could be done. 

A few hundred miles away, in Barbados

we had a seriously windy day, that same day, yesterday Monday

with a few significant gusts!
I'm guessing DR had that same hi-pressure area?
 

Given a narrow channel, and a big buncha wind

catching the side of a brick wall like Escape is,

and you will get blown sideways,

probably at a 5 degree list to leeward.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

Cruise canceled, That is not how anyone wants their vacation to go.

[Javajitterz]

6 hours ago, vicnsue said:

Just my opinion, but i believe booking is probably closed because it is too close to the sailing date.

No, it's because NCL knew- or had an inkling- there was a real problem with the ship. I live in Florida and have booked a cruise the night before it left on a whim, and we booked around 11 pm

[aswmammoth]

Escape sailing on the 19th was cancelled as well. They are offering us two choices:

- transfer reservation to another 7 night sailing this weekend, PLUS 100% FCC.

- a full refund, PLUS 50% FCC.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

4 minutes ago, aswmammoth said:

Escape sailing on the 19th was cancelled as well. They are offering us two choices:

- transfer reservation to another 7 night sailing this weekend, PLUS 100% FCC.

- a full refund, PLUS 50% FCC.

I would cruise this weekend and take the 100% FCC essentially a free cruise 

[AMP72]

Just now, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

I would cruise this weekend and take the 100% FCC essentially a free cruise 

I did the same. I was booked on Escape this weekend. Moved it to Encore itinerary from Miami instead. Now the fight to get refunds of flights and hotel bookings (booked separately).