Arcadia Jottings

[davecttr]

3 hours ago, BouncingWheel said:

If it is purely staffing issues then just take the Iona Fjords shuttle out of action for a few weeks. The people that would lose out would more than likely find the same cruise a few weeks later or earlier so the chances of them minimising impact would be lower than the varied, specific cruises they are cancelling.

Good idea, disappoint and anger 2 ships worth of passengers and then change your mind and anger the same number of passengers from another ship. Order, counter order and disorder result. Crazy.

[BouncingWheel]

10 hours ago, davecttr said:

Good idea, disappoint and anger 2 ships worth of passengers and then change your mind and anger the same number of passengers from another ship. Order, counter order and disorder result. Crazy.

My apologies. I never meant change course now but they could have done that instead to help limit revenue and inconvenience disruption. As they haven't I fall into the category of believing that Arcadia ideally needs to be brought out of service anyway and this is killing 2 birds with 1 stone. 

 

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, BouncingWheel said:

My apologies. I never meant change course now but they could have done that instead to help limit revenue and inconvenience disruption. As they haven't I fall into the category of believing that Arcadia ideally needs to be brought out of service anyway and this is killing 2 birds with 1 stone. 

 

Thanks for the apology but not really needed. Maybe a more considered response was needed from me but I am booked on Iona this summer.

 

Thinking about it strategically Iona and Arvia represent the future for P&O and Arcadia/Aurora represent the past. Deciding to favour the past over the future would be a bad business decision IMO.

[Son of Anarchy]

I do wonder whether we will ever get our worldie on Arcadia.  Originally booked for 21.  Took the FCC and subsequently re-booked for 23.  When the worldie 24 itinery was released decided we preferred that, so moved the booking to 24.  Increasingly looking like this is going into the "wasn't to be" box.  Must admit, I'm glad we moved the 23 booking.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Son of Anarchy

[gsmt47471015]

24 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

I do wonder whether we will ever get our worldie on Arcadia.  Originally booked for 21.  Took the FCC and subsequently re-booked for 23.  When the worldie 24 itinery was released decided we preferred that, so moved the booking to 24.  Increasingly looking like this is going into the "wasn't to be" box.  Must admit, I'm glad we moved the 23 booking.  

Beginning to wonder the same thing, been trying for four years to get on the world cruise and booked for 24, same thing with the 65 night Aurora South American cruise, now booked for 23 but unsure if either will martialize. If they both do go I hope all the problems are dealt with by then ,would hate to have some of these issues, especially on the longer cruises

[bee-ess]

31 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

I do wonder whether we will ever get our worldie on Arcadia.  Originally booked for 21.  Took the FCC and subsequently re-booked for 23.  When the worldie 24 itinery was released decided we preferred that, so moved the booking to 24.  Increasingly looking like this is going into the "wasn't to be" box.  Must admit, I'm glad we moved the 23 booking.  

I am thinking the same about our Eastern Med fly cruise, we moved it from 2020 to July 2022 and have now moved it again to July 2024 as we are still not 100% sure of cruising at the moment, too many ways it can go wrong with Covid and Greece ports require a test. We have 4 others with P&O through 2022/3 that we have moved and moved multiple times because of covid with various deposits and FCC's. It has all become a bit of a mess really trying to keep track of where we are with it.

Our next cruise is now Sept 2022 but not sure if we will do that one of not. Our last cruise was March 2020 and the longer we leave it the less we miss it I think and reading about the current performance of P&O on here doesn't help.

We are tied into these 5 cruises so it is either go or lose money, a couple are only small deposits but others have FCC's that almost cover the cost.

Wish we could get all our money back and start again.

Edited April 9, 2022 by bee-ess

[Fionboard]

Sadly, I cannot see either of these two old (but much loved) ships still being around for much longer.  They are revenue dry riverbeds rather than revenue streams.  

 

[molecrochip]

18 hours ago, BouncingWheel said:

If it is purely staffing issues then just take the Iona Fjords shuttle out of action for a few weeks. The people that would lose out would more than likely find the same cruise a few weeks later or earlier so the chances of them minimising impact would be lower than the varied, specific cruises they are cancelling.

This would leave too many spare crew doing nothing. Arcadia is the right size for the number of crew needed and some of the crew have recently been deployed on other ships in the fleet before transferring to Arcadia therefore they can transfer back with minimal training/familiarisation.

21 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

The thing is they have taken crew away from the rest of the fleet to staff Arcadia for what has now become one cruise, I am finding it difficult to find any logic in that. It isn't just P&O that have staffing issues either, Cunard are so probably others too.

Crew were not taken away from the rest of the fleet to staff Arcadia. When these crew rotated off Iona, they were replaced with fresh crew.

 

Cruise ship manning relies on the day to day rotation of crew starting and finishing contracts. If the staff all started on Arcadia on day one then six months later the whole crew would need a mass change. Therefore very careful plans were in place to gradually bring some staff back via other ships. If they have already done four months on Iona, then they will finish their contract on Arcadia in two months. Some may have come via three months on Ventura and will finish on Arcadia in three months time. Meanwhile, the staff deployed straight to Arcadia won't finish their contracts until six months time.

 

Cunard have spare crew who have been on QV that can cover QE and QM2.

21 hours ago, majortom10 said:

That is total nonsense when people on current cruise say ship is full of workmen and the already announced problem with Legionnaires risk and that is why they are flushing the whole water sysytem on the ship. "No urgent works on Arcadia" laughable.

The workmen are continuing a program of planned works. What you are likely seeing is workmen using guest cabins rather than cabins below deck due to Covid protocols.

21 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Arcadia should never have been returned to service as she was obviously as a ship not ready and did not have adequate staff. This along with other mismanagement decisions and the damage being done to the brand P&O Cruises I think it is time to replace senior management starting with Paul Ludlow. They got rid of Carol Marlow for a lot less disasters that the current senior management.

Hmmm.

21 hours ago, majortom10 said:

But you cannot deny because those actually on the cruise have said on CC that the ship is full of workmen and they have a possible problem with Legionnaires that is why they are flushing the whole water system. Covid is not the only issue and obviously Arcadia has serious current problems involving a lot more which is why they are cancelling cruises because she is not fit to be at sea. My heart goes out to those currently on Arcadia and they should be given serious compensation not 2 bottles of water and £25obc.

18 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Arcadia has had a case of legionnaires disease on board, and is having to have her water system flushed out. I imagine she will have to have a thorough inspection of her entire water and ventilation systems to ensure they have eliminated all traces before she has her sea worthy certificate renewed, which seems the more likely reason for her short term cancellations.

John - I don't believe that its been 100% confirmed that it was Arcadia that cased the suspected case however P&O are taking all necessary steps in case it was. But it has nothing to do with the cancellations. If the ship was not fit to be at sea, she wouldn't be at sea.

 

One further observation, people have complained about the services levels on Aurora and Arcadia when they restarted. The training of staff has followed the family ship model and perhaps needs some finessing for the adult only ships.

[majortom10]

If it has never been confirmed that Legionnaires is not on Arcadia why have guests currently onboard been told that the whole water system is being flushed. Not to use water in cabins for 4 hrs between 10am-2pm and been given 2 bottles of water and £25. P&O would do all that and give £25 per cabin as compensation if there wasn't a problem.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by majortom10

[BouncingWheel]

Thank you so much  @molecrochip for your replies as they always give a better background of things behind the scenes and are much appreciated. I understand the explanations involved and they do make sense but am worried that cancelling both Aurora and Arcadia cruises is another hit to this part of the brand and will turn off more existing customers. I also understand the quotes from elsewhere that Iona etc... are the future (as newer ships) and Arcadia/Aurora are the past but P&O really need to try to keep as many regular past cruisers as possible and the past customers on those 2 ships appeared to be a regular, loyal income stream (especially as there is less competition from others for UK small adult only ships) but loyalty will only last so far.

[P&O SUE]

I do wish they’d put a bigger ship on an Iceland cruise or two. Because of work I couldn’t usually book at launch (it will be a bit easier in my ‘new’ job now) and I couldn’t really afford the adult only longer cruises. I really like the idea of an Iceland cruise now.

[molecrochip]

38 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

Totally agree...

 

Looking at Carnival's latest accounts with my trusty slide rule in hand... it would very much look like that in the year up to the 30 November 2021 they made a loss of $9.5 Billion.

 

They had 65,000 staff, long-term debts of $28 Billion and were running at only 68% capacity.

 

They carried 1.2 million guests but, by the looks of things... passengers were booking less expensive cabins and spending less on board.

 

It would seem that... on average, Carnival lost over £600 for every single passenger who sailed.

 

The Corporations plans are to replace older, smaller less efficient ships with larger, environmental friendly, efficient new ships.

 

No chocolate on the pillow at night... will not allow Carnival brands to move from massive losses to break-even.

Yes they made a massive loss but still have >$7bn in liquid assets. Over time that $28bn will be paid down (a chunk is new ship debt), converted to equity (shares) or repaid more generally. Given the scale of the industry shutdown a simple calculation of loss/passengers is a meaningless number. Instead, I would suggest that the financial bods at Carnival have done well to retain $7bn of the $10bn they had in the bank at the end of 2019.

 

European passengers are actually spending more on board, its the American market that is being somewhat more conservative however they are a couple of months further behind the curve (or were to November 2021 which these accounts cover).

 

Booking trends are tracking low-mid 2019 ranges for later 2022 and 2023; certain weeks recently are proving very good. e.g. CCL had its busiest week of bookings every when celebrating its 50th birthday.

 

Most of that turnover of ships has already taken place. It is a fact of the industry that this will be the future trend though. Even boutique cruise lines that carry 700 passengers max instead look toward 1,200 to justify the cost of putting environmentally efficient proposition/technology onboard. As we head towards 2030, the cost of such systems should start to fall as LNG becomes the standard fuel type.

 

5 hours ago, majortom10 said:

If it has never been confirmed that Legionnaires is not on Arcadia why have guests currently onboard been told that the whole water system is being flushed. Not to use water in cabins for 4 hrs between 10am-2pm and been given 2 bottles of water and £25. P&O would do all that and give £25 per cabin as compensation if there wasn't a problem.

 

You would rather that undertake a precautionary action than not - surely??

 

The water is because the usual sources were out of action and the OBS was because of the inconvenience. Most of the OBS will be recouped through the bars or tours so is absorbed - its not actual cost.

[Danamis]

4 hours ago, P&O SUE said:

I do wish they’d put a bigger ship on an Iceland cruise or two. Because of work I couldn’t usually book at launch (it will be a bit easier in my ‘new’ job now) and I couldn’t really afford the adult only longer cruises. I really like the idea of an Iceland cruise now.

Some of the ports can't cope with the bigger ships.

 

[P&O SUE]

22 minutes ago, Danamis said:

Some of the ports can't cope with the bigger ships.

 

Ah ok although I'm sure Princess has a ship going to Iceland either Azura or Britannia size. 

[terrierjohn]

16 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

Ah ok although I'm sure Princess has a ship going to Iceland either Azura or Britannia size. 

We did Iceland and Norway on Ventura back in 2012, but we only did Reykjavik and Akureyri in Iceland.

[P&O SUE]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

We did Iceland and Norway on Ventura back in 2012, but we only did Reykjavik and Akureyri in Iceland.

Thanks John.

[ann141]

35 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

Ah ok although I'm sure Princess has a ship going to Iceland either Azura or Britannia size. 

We have cruised to Iceland on Crown Princess which is a similar size to Azura and we have previously cruised to Norway on Britannia which we enjoyed

[davecttr]

Isafjordur and Akureyri are the most visited apart from Reykjavik and can large ships berth there? A few years ago I was on Marella Explorer when she was the largest ship to dock at Akureyri, apparently we had about 1 metre of water under our 'keel' at low tide.

[yorkshirephil]

8 hours ago, davecttr said:

Isafjordur and Akureyri are the most visited apart from Reykjavik and can large ships berth there? A few years ago I was on Marella Explorer when she was the largest ship to dock at Akureyri, apparently we had about 1 metre of water under our 'keel' at low tide.

We docked in Reykjavik and Akureyri on Adventure of the seas several years ago, she is over 130,000 tonnes and over 3000 pax, so good size ships cab dock.

[davecttr]

1 minute ago, yorkshirephil said:

We docked in Reykjavik and Akureyri on Adventure of the seas several years ago, she is over 130,000 tonnes and over 3000 pax, so good size ships cab dock.

Oops, I should have said at low tide. The reason the Captain wanted to dock at Akureyri was the tendering at Kirkwall was a disaster because some cable work in the anchorage meant we were so far from the harbour that the transfer times were ridiculous. In my case I would have had an hour ashore at most. So the captain decided (or was it head office) to try for a low tide docking at Akureyri and after discussions with the harbour master it went ahead.

[Jill85]

We have been to Iceland once on Arcadia.

[AuroraCruiser08]

17 hours ago, P&O SUE said:

I do wish they’d put a bigger ship on an Iceland cruise or two. Because of work I couldn’t usually book at launch (it will be a bit easier in my ‘new’ job now) and I couldn’t really afford the adult only longer cruises. I really like the idea of an Iceland cruise now.

They used too before the current model of itinaries arrived where we have one ship doing the same itinaries. There used to be one cruise a year in either Azura or Ventura that went to Iceland for 14nts

[P&O SUE]

1 hour ago, AuroraCruiser08 said:

They used too before the current model of itinaries arrived where we have one ship doing the same itinaries. There used to be one cruise a year in either Azura or Ventura that went to Iceland for 14nts

Thank you, I must admit I’m not a fan of the fixed itineraries on the ships.

[AuroraCruiser08]

3 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

Thank you, I must admit I’m not a fan of the fixed itineraries on the ships.

No worries. I think Princess do Iceland on the larger ships and Cunard do on QV.

 

Neither am I. Nice to see a Britannia doing two Baltic trips which are a bit different to the meds. 

[molecrochip]

5 hours ago, AuroraCruiser08 said:

No worries. I think Princess do Iceland on the larger ships and Cunard do on QV.

 

Neither am I. Nice to see a Britannia doing two Baltic trips which are a bit different to the meds. 

QV is basically the same size as Arcadia (ever so slightly bigger) so not sure what your point is here.