Princess and covid cases

[doog442]

4 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

At best that is quite speculative.  If through the years one looked at data, noro for example, it is LESS contagious on cruises than for the general population.  It's just that the numbers aren't totaled in most places.

 

Now, look at covid, many places have high positivity rates.. over 20%.  Care to shoe me that cruises have that high of positivity rates?  You may find some, may.  But the vast majority are much much lower.  In life MANY things aren't as they may appear to be.  And just because something gets repeated time after time, it doesn't make it a fact.

This false narrative of petri dish like cruises needs to stop.  Take your precautions, but spreading speculations does no good for anyone.

 

I'm not sure many people will agree with you but this has been debated a million times before. A virus spreads through human contact either directly or indirectly of course we all know this. As a result the more people you put into indoor confined spaces the higher risk of spread. That's not speculative its simply a fact .A cruise ship has one of the highest population densities going and of course the majority are mixing with each other.

 

The UK government states in its FCDO ADVICE The confined setting on board and combination of multiple households enables COVID-19 to spread faster than it is able to elsewhere.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cruise-ship-travel#:~:text=of the UK.-,Cruise ships and COVID-19,it is able to elsewhere.

 

As I said earlier, risk assess it and make your own mind up. I'm cruising in two weeks and am aware I'm potentially going into a much higher than normal risk environment, far riskier than any other setting I'd ordinarily encounter at home. 

 

Of course the cruise line can try and mitigate the risk to prevent your 'petri dish' scenario but as I indicated cruise companies are walking a tightrope. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel A]

Those who deliberately mischaracterize cruise ships as being Petri Dishes are only showing their ignorance.  Most of these people are speaking about Norovirus or Covid-19 being spread on cruise ships.

 

A Petri Dish is manufactured to deliberately culture bacteria.  A cruise ship is not built for the purpose of culturing germs.  A virus (such as Noro or Covid) cannot survive in a Petri Dish, viruses need a living organism's cells in order to survive and propagate.  So, a Petri Dish or a cruise ship would be an environment where Noro or Covid would not survive.  It is people who spread viruses not cruise ships.  Bashing the cruise industry by spreading misnomers does no one any good.  Calling cruise ships Petri Dishes only serves to confuse people who don't know any better.

[latserrof]

Duly noted, we stand corrected.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Those who deliberately mischaracterize cruise ships as being Petri Dishes are only showing their ignorance.  Most of these people are speaking about Norovirus or Covid-19 being spread on cruise ships.

 

A Petri Dish is manufactured to deliberately culture bacteria.  A cruise ship is not built for the purpose of culturing germs.  A virus (such as Noro or Covid) cannot survive in a Petri Dish, viruses need a living organism's cells in order to survive and propagate.  So, a Petri Dish or a cruise ship would be an environment where Noro or Covid would not survive.  It is people who spread viruses not cruise ships.  Bashing the cruise industry by spreading misnomers does no one any good.  Calling cruise ships Petri Dishes only serves to confuse people who don't know any better.

Are you going to e-mail Dr. Fauci (I believe he was the one that first popularized this) and demand a retraction and an apology to the cruise lines?

[Bucket_2017]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:26 AM, floridababa said:

It seems that the cases are going up and princess once again cannot handle things. I know Island Princess having lots of cases. What about other ships?

Do they not have a plan to keep the passengers informed? Quarantined passengers are not being told anything.

Hope someone starts straightening things or they will be losing passengers in the future.

As for me I hope folks will initiate a class action suit and Princess will lose more than just passengers. The 300 or so passengers on the recent island princess trip contracted Covid due to numerous failures by island princess staff. I have accumulated numerous pictures and had conversations with the hotel general manager prior to contracting Covid. I was extremely disturbed and upset with his response. As a cancer survivor contracting Fold have been life threatening for me. Those of us who quarantined at the third rate ibis hotel near Heathrow found out yesterday that a similar fate has the following those passengers on the Emerald

[Daniel A]

13 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Are you going to e-mail Dr. Fauci (I believe he was the one that first popularized this) and demand a retraction and an apology to the cruise lines?

If Fauci said this, then I direct your attention to my post at #152.  

[techwatcher]

43 minutes ago, Bucket_2017 said:

I have accumulated numerous pictures and had conversations with the hotel general manager prior to contracting Covid. I was extremely disturbed and upset with his response. 

Could I ask what he said to disturb and upset you?

[PacnGoNow]

54 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Are you going to e-mail Dr. Fauci (I believe he was the one that first popularized this) and demand a retraction and an apology to the cruise lines?

Not true!  That phrase was started years ago, way before covid.  It referred to the spreading of norovirus and other viruses on a ship.  Spread by the media over the years.

[USCcruisecrazy]

On 6/13/2022 at 7:30 AM, leck57 said:

 

Wouldn't it be higher than that?  Australia with about a tenth of your population had 800 flu deaths in 2019.

In 2018-2019 380,000 hospitalizations from the flu in the USA and 28,000 deaths.  That was a good year.  Wonder when they will start testing for the flu pre-cruise in order to keep people from spreading it on board??

[Level six]

7 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

In 2018-2019 380,000 hospitalizations from the flu in the USA and 28,000 deaths.  That was a good year.  Wonder when they will start testing for the flu pre-cruise in order to keep people from spreading it on board??

1 million deaths is a bit different than 28,000 in USA.   6.3 million worldwide.  Even if you double or triple the flu deaths to make up for the added time (about 2 years), there is no comparison. 

[Coupe]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Those who deliberately mischaracterize cruise ships as being Petri Dishes are only showing their ignorance.  Most of these people are speaking about Norovirus or Covid-19 being spread on cruise ships.

 

A Petri Dish is manufactured to deliberately culture bacteria.  A cruise ship is not built for the purpose of culturing germs.  A virus (such as Noro or Covid) cannot survive in a Petri Dish, viruses need a living organism's cells in order to survive and propagate.  So, a Petri Dish or a cruise ship would be an environment where Noro or Covid would not survive.  It is people who spread viruses not cruise ships.  Bashing the cruise industry by spreading misnomers does no one any good.  Calling cruise ships Petri Dishes only serves to confuse people who don't know any better.

The Noro virus was named after a high school in Norwalk, Ohio. Any place people gather- viruses are possible. 

[USCcruisecrazy]

6 minutes ago, Level six said:

1 million deaths is a bit different than 28,000 in USA.   6.3 million worldwide.  Even if you double or triple the flu deaths to make up for the added time (about 2 years), there is no comparison. 

Wasn't trying to compare the deaths, but with the current variant, 28,000 deaths in a year in the USA is unlikely. Sure not comparing to the original virus from 2 years ago.  So, if the current death rate is even the same as the flu why not test for the flu as well?  Or Noro before boarding?  If your goal is to have safe, illness free (as much as possible) cruising, then why not test for all viruses??  Or are we just enamored now or scared over the SARS virus?  A question that really doesn't have an answer besides cost.  Anyway, food for thought.

[Level six]

14 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Wasn't trying to compare the deaths, but with the current variant, 28,000 deaths in a year in the USA is unlikely. Sure not comparing to the original virus from 2 years ago.  So, if the current death rate is even the same as the flu why not test for the flu as well?  Or Noro before boarding?  If your goal is to have safe, illness free (as much as possible) cruising, then why not test for all viruses??  Or are we just enamored now or scared over the SARS virus?  A question that really doesn't have an answer besides cost.  Anyway, food for thought.

Okay, misunderstood. 

[Princessfan20]

8 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Wasn't trying to compare the deaths, but with the current variant, 28,000 deaths in a year in the USA is unlikely. Sure not comparing to the original virus from 2 years ago.  So, if the current death rate is even the same as the flu why not test for the flu as well?  Or Noro before boarding?  If your goal is to have safe, illness free (as much as possible) cruising, then why not test for all viruses??  Or are we just enamored now or scared over the SARS virus?  A question that really doesn't have an answer besides cost.  Anyway, food for thought.

 

Statistics in the US are no longer accurate since they are no longer testing in most places nor keeping records like they first did with Covid.  Also, no one knows the number of cases detected by home tests.  It is all just pure BS now on CC.

[memoak]

8 minutes ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

Statistics in the US are no longer accurate since they are no longer testing in most places nor keeping records like they first did with Covid.  Also, no one knows the number of cases detected by home tests.  It is all just pure BS now on CC.

We send all of our home tests to our state health department to be included in their stats

[USCcruisecrazy]

7 minutes ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

Statistics in the US are no longer accurate since they are no longer testing in most places nor keeping records like they first did with Covid.  Also, no one knows the number of cases detected by home tests.  It is all just pure BS now on CC.

Yeah, got that too.  I am just trying to show how cruising is being what I think is overly cautious based on the current truths.  We have vaccines and treatments for COVID so not keen on treating it any different than other potential killer viruses.  I think cruising should return to normal and if some folks want to still mask and social distance, I have no problem with that.  Sort of like some people want to wear the Tux and others want a T-shirt.  I'm good with that too! 🙂  Had to get a formal nights dig in there.  LOL!

[kirtihk]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:51 AM, memoak said:

You would really want to be I an elevator with a bunch of unvaccinated, positive passengers ?  Or maybe be surrounded by them in the theatre ?  Not for me

To be Positive is a virtue!  Being Negative from the other hand... well... a totally different story. 

[Daniel A]

From the start, this thread seems to be designed to be a 'Pecking Party.'  In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, McMurphy describes a "pecking party" as a situation in which chickens see blood on another chicken and start pecking at it like crazy until they're all bloody, pecking at each other in a frenzy, and end up killing each other. McMurphy points out that Nurse Ratched's Therapeutic Community meetings are pecking parties.

[CruisingAwayTheBucketList]

2 hours ago, Bucket_2017 said:

As for me I hope folks will initiate a class action suit and Princess will lose more than just passengers. The 300 or so passengers on the recent island princess trip contracted Covid due to numerous failures by island princess staff. I have accumulated numerous pictures and had conversations with the hotel general manager prior to contracting Covid. I was extremely disturbed and upset with his response. As a cancer survivor contracting Fold have been life threatening for me. Those of us who quarantined at the third rate ibis hotel near Heathrow found out yesterday that a similar fate has the following those passengers on the Emerald

This comment calling for a class action suit against Princess is crossing a line.  (1) at this point everyone knows the risk of travel especially if you are planning a cruise.  (2) You know your personal health situation (3) When booking you are required read and sign off on the Passage Contract and Covid Acceptance language.  (3) You weighed and accepted the risk.  Now you disparge Princess and call for lawsuits.  Its time for Cruise Critic to delete this thread and perhaps Princess should ban you from their ships.

[Yehootu]

3 minutes ago, CruisingAwayTheBucketList said:

This comment calling for a class action suit against Princess is crossing a line.  (1) at this point everyone knows the risk of travel especially if you are planning a cruise.  (2) You know your personal health situation (3) When booking you are required read and sign off on the Passage Contract and Covid Acceptance language.  (3) You weighed and accepted the risk.  Now you disparge Princess and call for lawsuits.  Its time for Cruise Critic to delete this thread and perhaps Princess should ban you from their ships.

As a 40yr airline employee, I'd be rich if I had a $ for every time someone said they were going to sue my airline. So many just check the boxes and don't read the fine print.

[doog442]

2 hours ago, Bucket_2017 said:

 As a cancer survivor contracting Fold have been life threatening for me. Those of us who quarantined at the third rate ibis hotel near Heathrow found out yesterday that a similar fate has the following those passengers on the Emerald

 

I'm sorry to hear that you have Covid,. However firstly you are not quarantined, this is disinformation. You can do what you like, jump on a tube and go and see Big Ben, the sites and everything else. There is no quarantine in the UK. Walk out the door, hail a cab wear a mask if you're worried about giving it to someone else. 

 

That aside I'm struggling slightly but why would anyone go on a cruise ship if they were vulnerable? To a country where we have no rules or regulations anymore regarding Covid, where its treated simply as an inconvenience and to a place that still has one of the highest Covid rates on the planet ? 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by doog442

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Wasn't trying to compare the deaths, but with the current variant, 28,000 deaths in a year in the USA is unlikely. Sure not comparing to the original virus from 2 years ago.  So, if the current death rate is even the same as the flu why not test for the flu as well?  Or Noro before boarding?  If your goal is to have safe, illness free (as much as possible) cruising, then why not test for all viruses??  Or are we just enamored now or scared over the SARS virus?  A question that really doesn't have an answer besides cost.  Anyway, food for thought.

 

 

Even at current rate, lowest so far, the annualized rate would be about 78,000 tied to active cases.  Not counting any effects post active disease due to increased rate of cardiac events, strokes, etc. that are showing up in people that have been previously infected vs populations that have not had Covid.  Those would not show up in Covid data, but only in total mortality figures which are pretty much tracked only in annual data sets.  

 

If we have solved the impact of Covid then one would expect total mortality rates to show drops back to the more normal trend line starting in 2021 data and certainly in 2022 data (normal annual increases are 1-2 % per year, compared to the 18% increase that occurred in 2020.  Basically the numbers should show a drop in 2021 vs 2020 and certainly a considerable drop in 2022.

[Guest ldtr]

14 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

At best that is quite speculative.  If through the years one looked at data, noro for example, it is LESS contagious on cruises than for the general population.  It's just that the numbers aren't totaled in most places.

 

Now, look at covid, many places have high positivity rates.. over 20%.  Care to shoe me that cruises have that high of positivity rates?  You may find some, may.  But the vast majority are much much lower.  In life MANY things aren't as they may appear to be.  And just because something gets repeated time after time, it doesn't make it a fact.

This false narrative of petri dish like cruises needs to stop.  Take your precautions, but spreading speculations does no good for anyone.

For some reason people seem to confuse positivity rates (the percentage of people tested that test positive) with disease incidence rate (the percentage of the population that has the illness).  The two are dramatically.

 

The positivity rate is based upon a sub group that has a reason to test.  Mostly those that have symptoms, or close contact with someone that is infected.  So that rate will be much much higher then the incidence rate, unless you test the entire population

 

You could easily have a positivity rate in excess of 20 percent, even if the disease incidence rate is considerably less than 1%.

 

On most ships now testing is only for those people that report to medical with symptoms, so I expect ship board positivity rates would actually be pretty high, though the cruise lines will not release those numbers.  If the cruise lines tested everyone they would be fairly low.

 

Positivity rates are going up in many places now, because fewer people are having to test for travel or for work, etc.  As a result most of the people testing are because they have a reason to think that they might be infected.

[USCcruisecrazy]

5 minutes ago, ldtr said:

 

 

Even at current rate, lowest so far, the annualized rate would be about 78,000 tied to active cases.  Not counting any effects post active disease due to increased rate of cardiac events, strokes, etc. that are showing up in people that have been previously infected vs populations that have not had Covid.  Those would not show up in Covid data, but only in total mortality figures which are pretty much tracked only in annual data sets.  

 

If we have solved the impact of Covid then one would expect total mortality rates to show drops back to the more normal trend line starting in 2021 data and certainly in 2022 data (normal annual increases are 1-2 % per year, compared to the 18% increase that occurred in 2020.  Basically the numbers should show a drop in 2021 vs 2020 and certainly a considerable drop in 2022.

Not sure where you got the data, but doing simple math...SC averaged 5 a week for the last month.  That's about 250 a year for 5.5 million population.  Times that by 60 (based on population of 330 million) and you get 15,000.  But not supposed to talk covid stuff...just trying to show cruising is no more risky now then it was pre-covid for those that have been vaccinated.  So, again, unless you test and mask for the other killer viruses, doing so for covid is just not necessary.

[Guest ldtr]

12 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Was that 56% of total cruise line capacity or just for the ships that had been brought back into service?

 

From what I saw the denominator was births in active ships.  Cannot say for sure if it included ships that were supposed to be sailing during the period bt were then delayed in restart.