Rare FlyerTalker Posted June 21, 2022 #26 Share Posted June 21, 2022 15 hours ago, sverigecruiser said: You are correct that it may not be the next flight but they may rebook to a fully booked flight. Many flights are overbooked and I assume that delays is a part of that "system". Unless you are a VERY high value customer, such as AA Concierge Key or Delta 360, airlines will not bump other customers from a flight to accommodate you on the next flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted June 22, 2022 #27 Share Posted June 22, 2022 7 hours ago, FlyerTalker said: Unless you are a VERY high value customer, such as AA Concierge Key or Delta 360, airlines will not bump other customers from a flight to accommodate you on the next flight. Isn't it better for the airlines to get rid of the passengers as soon as possible when they are in transit? I know that bumping passengers cost too but won't it be worse for the airline to have lots of passengers trapped in transit? I understand that it may depend on the reason for the delay. Since you are an expert, at least compared to most, do you know why that isn't a part of the "overbooking system"? Are too few flights delayed for that? I guess that I have been lucky to get on the next flight every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted June 22, 2022 #28 Share Posted June 22, 2022 2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said: Isn't it better for the airlines to get rid of the passengers as soon as possible when they are in transit? No, because all you are doing is just kicking the can down the road. If you have 25 people waiting to be rebooked, and you bump 25 off the next flight, you still have 25 passengers waiting. The nett effect is zero, and you have made 25 innocent travellers very cross! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare FlyerTalker Posted June 22, 2022 #29 Share Posted June 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, wowzz said: No, because all you are doing is just kicking the can down the road. If you have 25 people waiting to be rebooked, and you bump 25 off the next flight, you still have 25 passengers waiting. The nett effect is zero, and you have made 25 innocent travellers very cross! Very true. Ask yourself -- how will I feel if I get bumped off my flight because there is someone else who had a flight problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globaliser Posted June 22, 2022 #30 Share Posted June 22, 2022 1 hour ago, wowzz said: No, because all you are doing is just kicking the can down the road. If you have 25 people waiting to be rebooked, and you bump 25 off the next flight, you still have 25 passengers waiting. The nett effect is zero, and you have made 25 innocent travellers very cross! 57 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said: Ask yourself -- how will I feel if I get bumped off my flight because there is someone else who had a flight problem? Actually, the answer is that unless you're an insider, you'd never know that. All you'd know is that you were bumped. So I'm not sure that we outsiders can make confident statements about what the airline would do. In some contexts (eg US domestics), the airline might get what it needs by offering a sweet enough VDB deal, so that actually nobody even gets "bumped" in the technical sense of an IDB. So it's possible to look at some hypothetical situations. For example, if the airline bumps 25 pax on a rolling basis, it could (hypothetically) have 25 pax who are delayed for two hours from the first flight before getting on the second flight, 25 pax delayed for two hours from the second flight to the third, and 25 pax delayed for two hours from the third flight to the fourth flight, which has enough space. 75 pax are each delayed for two hours (perhaps 50 of them clutching their VDB winnings), which isn't a big deal for most pax; instead of 25 pax being delayed for six hours and fuming to high heaven. If you can run things like that, there can sometimes be an interaction with legislation like 261/2004. Suppose, hypothetically, the threshold for paying cash compensation after a delay or a bump is three hours. On the rolling basis, the airline wouldn't have to pay cash compensation to any of those 75 pax, and the cost may only be the VDB vouchers. But if 25 pax are delayed for six hours, that's 25 lots of cash compensation which could be more expensive to the airline than the real cost of the vouchers. What do airlines actually do? I don't know. But I know that I shouldn't try to guess, particularly once the pax is in a complex system such as the US domestic network (which is what the OP was asking about). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted June 22, 2022 #31 Share Posted June 22, 2022 2 hours ago, wowzz said: No, because all you are doing is just kicking the can down the road. If you have 25 people waiting to be rebooked, and you bump 25 off the next flight, you still have 25 passengers waiting. The nett effect is zero, and you have made 25 innocent travellers very cross! Depending on the reason for the delay the passengers in transit can be a bigger problem for the airline, I think. I know that the airlines have to pay bumped passengers but there is also cost involved when passengers in transit are delayed. Some of the costs will probably be paid by someones travelinsurence but won't the insurence company get money from the airline if the airline is responsible for the delay? I don't try to argue that they will bump other passengers, I have already been told no. But maybe it should be better for the airlines if they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted June 22, 2022 #32 Share Posted June 22, 2022 2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said: Ask yourself -- how will I feel if I get bumped off my flight because there is someone else who had a flight problem? I should not be happy if I got bumped because someone else had a flight problem! Another possible question to ask is how will I feel if I have a flight problem and can't get on a flight for a few days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted June 22, 2022 #33 Share Posted June 22, 2022 2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said: But maybe it should be better for the airlines if they did? How will it be better for the airlines ? In my example they would then have to compensate another 25 passengers, and another 25 the day after that etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globaliser Posted June 22, 2022 #34 Share Posted June 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, wowzz said: How will it be better for the airlines ? In my example they would then have to compensate another 25 passengers, and another 25 the day after that etc, etc. But that depends on how long each pax is delayed, when compensation is payable to a delayed or bumped pax, and how much it actually costs the airline for the compensation that it hands out. On the latter point, I suspect that (for example) a $300 bump voucher taken by a VDB is unlikely to cost the airline $300 in lost cash. The big US airlines have spent decades honing the art of overselling (not just overbooking) flights in the domestic network because the bump compensation they have to pay is less than the additional revenue from the oversales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted June 22, 2022 #35 Share Posted June 22, 2022 29 minutes ago, Globaliser said: But that depends on how long each pax is delayed, when compensation is payable to a delayed or bumped pax, and how much it actually costs the airline for the compensation that it hands out. On the latter point, I suspect that (for example) a $300 bump voucher taken by a VDB is unlikely to cost the airline $300 in lost cash. The big US airlines have spent decades honing the art of overselling (not just overbooking) flights in the domestic network because the bump compensation they have to pay is less than the additional revenue from the oversales. I fully accept your points. I was just indicating that in many cases bouncing pax to make space for those previously delayed, does not always make economic sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaiidan Posted June 22, 2022 #36 Share Posted June 22, 2022 On 6/14/2022 at 10:19 AM, PacnGoNow said: We’ve always precleared in Canada for our US flight. Here’s a link you can check for your airport in Canada. Also, check with UAL. They would rebook you on the next available flight, but most flights are heavily booked these days. https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance?language_content_entity=en Many Canadian airports have a US customs in them so you do not have to clear any more AND yes UA will re-book you on the next avail flight on any airline I missed once in LAX and UA put me on a AA flight ! ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6rugrats Posted June 22, 2022 #37 Share Posted June 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Hawaiidan said: Many Canadian airports have a US customs in them so you do not have to clear any more AND yes UA will re-book you on the next avail flight on any airline I missed once in LAX and UA put me on a AA flight ! ...... No, UA will not book you on ANY airline. They try to keep you in UA/UAX flights, then partners/ Star Alliance carriers and then will look to other airlines, but there are many they will never pay to book you on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted June 22, 2022 #38 Share Posted June 22, 2022 5 hours ago, wowzz said: How will it be better for the airlines ? In my example they would then have to compensate another 25 passengers, and another 25 the day after that etc, etc. If the airline is to blame for the delay aren't they responsible for the passengers? A few nights at a hotel on or close to the airport cost a lot. I don't say that it's always better for the airlines but maybe sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted June 22, 2022 #39 Share Posted June 22, 2022 4 hours ago, wowzz said: I was just indicating that in many cases bouncing pax to make space for those previously delayed, does not always make economic sense. I agree with this. In many cases it doesn't make economic sense but I'm sure that it sometimes does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaiidan Posted June 22, 2022 #40 Share Posted June 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, 6rugrats said: No, UA will not book you on ANY airline. They try to keep you in UA/UAX flights, then partners/ Star Alliance carriers and then will look to other airlines, but there are many they will never pay to book you on. your probably right...I doubt they would put you on Southworst ot Alleganey ! Both air "experiences" rather than airlines. UA will have the full range of star alliance however which is a bunch. Just my experience with UA for 30+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted June 22, 2022 #41 Share Posted June 22, 2022 3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said: If the airline is to blame for the delay aren't they responsible for the passengers? A few nights at a hotel on or close to the airport cost a lot. I don't say that it's always better for the airlines but maybe sometimes. If a passenger misses a legitimate connection, even if it is outside the responsibility of the airline (eg bad weather, atc issues, even an airbridge malfunction etc), the airline still has to look after those passengers who missed contacting flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted June 23, 2022 #42 Share Posted June 23, 2022 6 hours ago, wowzz said: If a passenger misses a legitimate connection, even if it is outside the responsibility of the airline (eg bad weather, atc issues, even an airbridge malfunction etc), the airline still has to look after those passengers who missed contacting flights. Then it's even more important for the airlines to get rid of the passengers in transit as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedferg Posted June 23, 2022 Author #43 Share Posted June 23, 2022 20 hours ago, wowzz said: If a passenger misses a legitimate connection, even if it is outside the responsibility of the airline (eg bad weather, atc issues, even an airbridge malfunction etc), the airline still has to look after those passengers who missed contacting flights. Lots of good information in these posts, thanks. To summarize our position, our 'best' option regarding time-of-day; layover; airmiles, has 1:20 minute transit. We decided to take our chances and if necessary, we will pay for overnight hotel. I was primarily concerned that we would have to pay for the follow on flight. We have interviews set pre-trip for Global Entry, so that should ease our transit time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted June 23, 2022 #44 Share Posted June 23, 2022 17 hours ago, sverigecruiser said: Then it's even more important for the airlines to get rid of the passengers in transit as soon as possible. Yes, but if that entails bumping other passengers, the airline still has to pay hotel costs etc for the bumped passengers, so there is no nett benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted June 24, 2022 #45 Share Posted June 24, 2022 7 hours ago, wowzz said: Yes, but if that entails bumping other passengers, the airline still has to pay hotel costs etc for the bumped passengers, so there is no nett benefit. If I live in Stockholm and are bumped at Arlanda, won't I sleep at home? Many people fly from their hometown so they won't need a hotel. People in transit do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandma*knows*best Posted July 4, 2022 #46 Share Posted July 4, 2022 On 6/22/2022 at 11:59 AM, Hawaiidan said: Many Canadian airports have a US customs in them so you do not have to clear any more AND yes UA will re-book you on the next avail flight on any airline I missed once in LAX and UA put me on a AA flight ! ...... Absolute nonsense. UA will NOT rebook you on the next available flight on any airline. Just making stuff up is not helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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