Upgrading OLife Air to Business Class?

[oskidunker]

1 hour ago, the more ports the better said:

I agree Flatbush.  Sometimes, I can purchase a flight to Frankfort, London or Munich then purchase my connection separately on Lufthansa, SAS…… to the final destination for a lot less than purchasing a one stop flight all on United even using the same flights.  The only hassle is that you have to recheck your bags at the transit center.  I’m UA 1k so the $25 fee is never an issue but even if it was, the savings is worth it.  My big issue with calling is that the hold times can be ridiculous even on the 1k line.  I’ll try your ITA Matrix.  I’ve never used it but it seems helpful.

Does calling United help when trying to use ff miles? Recently I tried to book a direct flight from sfo to lhr  in Business and 275,000 miles was not enough. So we bought premium economy . Recently cancelled Marriott  viisa due to inability to use free nights. Am also cancelling United in Jan. Just got  a no fee Chase United card to replace  it. Totally disgusted with inability to make any of these cards work for me

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 minute ago, oskidunker said:

Does calling United help when trying to use ff miles? Recently I tried to book a direct flight from sfo to lhr  in Business and 275,000 miles was not enough. So we bought premium economy . Recently cancelled Marriott  viisa due to inability to use free nights. Am also cancelling United in Jan. Just got  a no fee Chase United card to replace  it. Totally disgusted with inability to make any of these cards work for me

When you call United, you can always purchase additionally required miles. Remember too that United now uses dynamic pricing even for FF flights. That 275k today could be 175k tomorrow.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, the more ports the better said:

I agree Flatbush.  Sometimes, I can purchase a flight to Frankfort, London or Munich then purchase my connection separately on Lufthansa, SAS…… to the final destination for a lot less than purchasing a one stop flight all on United even using the same flights.  The only hassle is that you have to recheck your bags at the transit center.  I’m UA 1k so the $25 fee is never an issue but even if it was, the savings is worth it.  My big issue with calling is that the hold times can be ridiculous even on the 1k line.  I’ll try your ITA Matrix.  I’ve never used it but it seems helpful.

Was a 1K pre-retirement. Still call that number and they take the call. Wish United had never done away with Silver Wings (good pricing for geezers).

Lufthansa euro short hops are often on sale. But the United website does not display those prices. Another reason to call and ask.

[sunlover12]

1 hour ago, oskidunker said:

Does calling United help when trying to use ff miles? Recently I tried to book a direct flight from sfo to lhr  in Business and 275,000 miles was not enough. So we bought premium economy . Recently cancelled Marriott  viisa due to inability to use free nights. Am also cancelling United in Jan. Just got  a no fee Chase United card to replace  it. Totally disgusted with inability to make any of these cards work for me

I'm a little confused by what you mean when you say you're canceling United in January. Cancelling your United Mileage account?

It does take a lot of miles to fly business class on an international flight but if you have enough it is well worth it.  We flew SFO-PPT round trip on United Polaris class.  It was 350,000 miles per person.  The alternative was $5000/person. It took awhile to build up those miles but we saved $10,000.  Well worth the time and effort. 

Did you look at connections rather than flying non-stop from SFO? If you're willing to connect through ORD or EWR it may require fewer FF miles.

 You can always use those miles for domestic flights.  I just saved $1100 booking round trip ORD-MCO in business class and it didn't cost a lot of miles. 

I don't think it will help to call United in order to get a lower price on FF miles.  JMO

[oskidunker]

1 hour ago, sunlover12 said:

I'm a little confused by what you mean when you say you're canceling United in January. Cancelling your United Mileage account?

It does take a lot of miles to fly business class on an international flight but if you have enough it is well worth it.  We flew SFO-PPT round trip on United Polaris class.  It was 350,000 miles per person.  The alternative was $5000/person. It took awhile to build up those miles but we saved $10,000.  Well worth the time and effort. 

Did you look at connections rather than flying non-stop from SFO? If you're willing to connect through ORD or EWR it may require fewer FF miles.

 You can always use those miles for domestic flights.  I just saved $1100 booking round trip ORD-MCO in business class and it didn't cost a lot of miles. 

I don't think it will help to call United in order to get a lower price on FF miles.  JMO

 Cancelling  united xplorer card, not the frequent flier program. Got a non fee chase united card.  Not willing to pay  the $95 xplorer fee anymore. 

[ORV]

5 hours ago, oskidunker said:

Does calling United help when trying to use ff miles? Recently I tried to book a direct flight from sfo to lhr  in Business and 275,000 miles was not enough. So we bought premium economy . Recently cancelled Marriott  viisa due to inability to use free nights. Am also cancelling United in Jan. Just got  a no fee Chase United card to replace  it. Totally disgusted with inability to make any of these cards work for me

Can't speak to United but with Marriott it might be when and where you are trying to stay. I had no issue recently using free annual nights in San Diego & Vancouver and was able to use my Suite rewards upgrade for both visits. I just got notice this morning that our Suite upgrade went through for the Westin in St Louis next week (on another free room). I also rarely have an issue finding availability with points. I have read on the Marriott FB where people never seem to get the Suite awards upgrade (different than just being upgraded when you get there) and can't seem to use the annual free night. 

 

They do have a wonky website. 

 

 

[the more ports the better]

I disagree strongly that FF miles and Marriott points are not worth it!!!

 

FF miles are tricky but extraordinarily valuable.  In the past year, I acquired 16 one way business class tickets to Europe, all at the 60-75 mile range per ticket.  That is easily a savings of 30k.  Just remember that you can change flights with no charge.  Grab whatever flight you can get as soon as you think you may go somewhere at a “saver” rate, maybe not so saver anymore, but they are out there.  Check daily, with a vpn if possible but not necessary as FF miles pretty much are available or not unlike pricing.  You can change you flight as better flights open, sometimes they are only available for a day or so.  Also, keep open the option of flying to a European, Asian … hub then flying coach on a revenue ticket for the connection. 9 hours on business to Frankfort followed by 1 hour in coach on Lufthansa is no big deal.

 

Flexibility and being adventurous is key.  Sometimes we book our precruise stay depending on where there are ff saver biz fares.  For example, if you sail from Venice but there a saver fares to Milan, we will fly in there, see the last supper, Zermatt, maybe a few days in Bellagio then take a very comfy frecca train right in to the center of Venice.

 

I looked for FF tickets to Papeete end of next month and ended up just buying them as that is one of the routes where business rarely opens up for saver FF miles so there are times it won’t work but typically, something works out.
 

Also, I am staying at the St Regis Bora Bora with Marriott points saving $8000, no issue booking.  I paid an upgrade charge for a premier OWB but could have stayed in a regular room on points alone.  Also in May, I stayed at the Danieli in Venice in a fantastic lagoon view room for 5 nights for less than $3000 using points for a base room then upgrading with cash saving over $5000.  
 

These programs do save a lot of money, at least they do for us!!!

[the more ports the better]

Flatbush, do you book your sailings through United? 

[ChadnKate]

On 7/7/2022 at 11:30 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

When you call United, you can always purchase additionally required miles. Remember too that United now uses dynamic pricing even for FF flights. That 275k today could be 175k tomorrow.

If you want to play the miles game consider ditching the airlines cards. Use AmEx Everyday Preferred for all regular stuff. Make sure you use 30x/month to get the 50% bonus - like for AMazonand recurring charges. We get 3 points for gas, 4.5 at supermarket. All AmEx points can be used for many airlines including Delta, BA, etc.  That cad is inexpensive, @ $100/year. Use a Chase Sapphire card for Chase points, transferrable to United, BA and many more. Sapphire earned points are double for all travel and dining, or triple for the Sapphire Reserve card. That one is expensive but it automatically credits you with $300 for the travel costs. 

There are many ways to get and use points, but if you cruise you earn them when you charge the cruise and spend them when you fly there. 

[ChadnKate]

I forgot to say that as we book our cruises more than a year out we are always able to get lie flat Biz seats with points. I start looking at all alternatives at 14 months out then refine the search at 13. Sometimes they are available at @ 355 days but always by 330. When we get our flights booked, then we know when to get our pre cruise hotels. Same for the reverse in coming home.

Other than taxes and a few other monthly expenditures, we earn an average of 2.5 points on all our expenses. Regardless of your annual family "budget" this will mount up over time.

I believe there was a question about getting a credit for not using the Oceania air services. Yes you can. We do. I take that money and look for the annual sale on American Airlines miles and stock up then. Over time that bank of AA miles as been very useful, even allowing for the Airlines' devaluations by increasing the miles they require for flights. 

[ORV]

1 hour ago, ChadnKate said:

If you want to play the miles game consider ditching the airlines cards

Is there a card other than the airline branded cards that covers baggage fees? Not everyone flies in First or Business, and if you travel much those fees are ridiculous. One trip will usually cover the yearly fee for most airline cards that cover bags and a few other perks. 

[ChadnKate]

1 hour ago, ORV said:

Is there a card other than the airline branded cards that covers baggage fees? Not everyone flies in First or Business, and if you travel much those fees are ridiculous. One trip will usually cover the yearly fee for most airline cards that cover bags and a few other perks. 

Sorry, not aware of one but the costs of flights is much greater than the bags. If you travel mostly on one airline their card is great for that. We land up on different airlines. On the last trip we were on Iberia, Turkish Air and British Air.

A great resource is the website thepointsguy.com. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, ORV said:

Is there a card other than the airline branded cards that covers baggage fees? Not everyone flies in First or Business, and if you travel much those fees are ridiculous. One trip will usually cover the yearly fee for most airline cards that cover bags and a few other perks. 

Glad you brought this up. I partially disagree with ChadnKate about airline cards - in particular United’s. If you fly a lot, which we do annually for long/complex trips, the air specific perks (e.g., 70 lb + multiple bag allowances, priority boarding, access to more FF points flights, discounts on flight related purchases, United club passes and, of course, use of the acquired points on Star Alliance partners’s flights, etc. are hard to beat.

I also take issue with booking as soon as flights open at 330 days out. Many airlines on many routes start with far higher prices during the first couple of weeks after opening for booking (to snag business fliers whose employer pays the tab). If you don’t believe me, check a RT NYC (any airport)-SFO price at 330 days out and then again two weeks later.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Flatbush Flyer

[ChadnKate]

14 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Glad you brought this up. I partially disagree with ChadnKate about airline cards - in particular United’s. If you fly a lot, which we do annually for long/complex trips, the air specific perks (e.g., 70 lb + multiple bag allowances, priority boarding, access to more FF points flights, discounts on flight related purchases, United club passes and, of course, use of the acquired points on Star Alliance partners’s flights, etc. are hard to beat.

I also take issue with booking as soon as flights open at 330 days out. Many airlines on many routes start with far higher prices during the first couple of weeks after opening for booking (to snag business fliers whose employer pays the tab). If you don’t believe me, check a RT NYC (any airport)-SFO price at 330 days out and then again two weeks later.

Book earliest if you are getting reward flights. If points drop you can cancel and rebook or call and they will usually do that for you. As long as there is COVID in the world it seems change fees are usually waived.

[Flatbush Flyer]

8 minutes ago, ChadnKate said:

Book earliest if you are getting reward flights. If points drop you can cancel and rebook or call and they will usually do that for you. As long as there is COVID in the world it seems change fees are usually waived.

Though there are no longer any hard and fast rules, you’ll find that the same dynamic pricing factor now affects most airlines’ points charge for an FF ticket.
 

Like the fares themselves, high point requirements will be employed when flights are first available and, of course, they can then be all over the map day-to-day after that. As for cancel/rebook for lower dynamic FF point cost, you’ll also find that many airlines now limit “price reduction match” (even for FF points flights) to 30 days. After that, it’s a “crap shoot” on what FFCs/ETCs/fees etc may be in play. Again, in my experience, United and it’s Star Alliance partners appear to be the most flexible. Perhaps even more importantly these days (whether you like their planes or service), United answers their phones!

 

IMO, a far better strategy emphasis than just FF points cost on an ideal/convenient routing (particularly if you’re flying bizclass intercontinentally with a required connection before/after the main long haul) is to do the research (e.g., ITA Matrix) and find the right mix of price, connection times (NEVER less than 3 hours), hub cities for consortia (e.g., Star Alliance). BTW, compare OW ticket combo to RT and multi-city fares. Recently, we’ve found that it is sometimes (not always) less expensive to do OW tix!  AND, of course, always call your selected carrier(s) snd have them search alternatives to your initial plan. Why? For example, Lufthansa pricing in a code share with a United ticket (through FRA) found online will generally not display any current sale price for the Lufthansa leg. Calling United will get that sale price. For a OW bizclass ticket SFO-FRA-ARN (of BCN, etc), buying the ticket over the phone could save you $1k+. And, if you’re nice (or point out the web fare difference), the United rep will wave the $25 booking fee.

 

In any case, because of the dynamic pricing gamble now affecting both paid and points tix cost: If you fly often and distant, you may sometimes find that buying a bizclass ticket outright may be the better deal in the long run. That said, however, amassing points has becom as much of a gamble as is funding a voluntary 401k or 403b retirement account. I’ve been seeing some multi-city non-stop bizclass tix for Pacific Rim long hauls easily exceeding 200K points for OW on any given day.

 

[marne-c]

On 7/13/2022 at 6:17 PM, ChadnKate said:

(Snip)   On the last trip we were on Iberia, Turkish Air and British Air.  (Snip)

 

Thanks, @ChadnKate, for this.  My wife and I are plotting air routing for pre- and post-flights for our Med cruise on Marina next May.  Both Iberia and Turkish Air are possible choices, but we have flown neither as yet.

 

How did you find the service on Iberia and Turkish Air?  If you flew Business Class, as is our plan, I'd be especially interested.

 

--Marne

Edited July 15, 2022 by marne-c

[ChadnKate]

45 minutes ago, marne-c said:

Thanks, @ChadnKate, for this.  My wife and I are plotting air routing for pre- and post-flights for our Med cruise on Marina next May.  Both Iberia and Turkish Air are possible choices, but we have flown neither as yet.

 

How did you find the service on Iberia and Turkish Air?  If you flew Business Class, as is our plan, I'd be especially interested.

 

--Marne

Turkish Air fabulous, at least in the front of the plane. Istanbul Airport clean and efficient. We use Blacklane for our ride in to the Conrad on the Bosporous. You can use United miles to book Turkish Air. Had a direct flight from Miami. 

Iberia Airlines, Madrid Airport not so fine. Acceptable. Just don't expect to easily get your VAT tax back there - very fragmented and confusing. 

Miami airport a frenetic mess. Actually found more English spoken back in Madrid.  

[oskidunker]

5 minutes ago, ChadnKate said:

Turkish Air fabulous, at least in the front of the plane. Istanbul Airport clean and efficient. We use Blacklane for our ride in to the Conrad on the Bosporous. You can use United miles to book Turkish Air. Had a direct flight from Miami. 

Iberia Airlines, Madrid Airport not so fine. Acceptable. Just don't expect to easily get your VAT tax back there - very fragmented and confusing. 

Miami airport a frenetic mess. Actually found more English spoken back in Madrid.  

Check their safety revord. 

[ChadnKate]

2 minutes ago, oskidunker said:

Check their safety revord. 

Nobody has crashed with us in it yet, although I was on an L1011 Tristar back in the day that lost one of its engines. Literally, it fell off!

[marne-c]

1 hour ago, oskidunker said:

Check their safety revord. 

 

Whose?  Turkish Air's or Iberia's?

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, marne-c said:

Whose?  Turkish Air's or Iberia's?

 

 

Forget the safety record. Which one answers the phone when the “poop hits the fan?”

[ChadnKate]

1 hour ago, marne-c said:

Whose?  Turkish Air's or Iberia's?

 

 

It was back in the mid 70s. Worked with a company that did group trips Maybe TIA, Trans World or one of those. Only remember the excitement. Landed back in Bangor until another plane was sent for us.

[oskidunker]

4 hours ago, marne-c said:

Whose?  Turkish Air's or Iberia's?

 

Turkish. Many near misses  

They may be better now but..https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/obama-pilot-unsafe-airlines-won-fly-article-1.2215362

Edited July 15, 2022 by oskidunker

[marne-c]

20 minutes ago, oskidunker said:

(Snip)  https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/obama-pilot-unsafe-airlines-won-fly-article-1.2215362

 

 

YIKES!!!  That was a scary article.  

 

But current research is more upbeat:  

Turkish Airlines is now rated as a seven-star airline for safety by the global rating agency AirlineRatings.com. Turkish Airlines' incident record over the past five years has been outstanding and has resulted in the airline's safety rating being lifted from five-star to the highest seven-star.

https://www.airlineratings.com › ... › News › Industry News

 

But still, it looks like we'll be on Iberia.

 

--Marne

Edited July 15, 2022 by marne-c

[ChadnKate]

1 hour ago, marne-c said:

 

YIKES!!!  That was a scary article.  

 

But current research is more upbeat:  

Turkish Airlines is now rated as a seven-star airline for safety by the global rating agency AirlineRatings.com. Turkish Airlines' incident record over the past five years has been outstanding and has resulted in the airline's safety rating being lifted from five-star to the highest seven-star.

https://www.airlineratings.com › ... › News › Industry News

 

But still, it looks like we'll be on Iberia.

 

--Marne

Remember apples and oranges. Airlines that have a substantial network of local flights into small airports may have different challenges than others that mostly go to large airports. We definetly like Turkish Air and their airport is amazing.