Has anyone heard when/if Pride of America will start opening up more restaurants/bars?

[chengkp75]

On 6/29/2022 at 1:26 PM, steamboats said:

As in the US it´s already hard to find staff for landside hotels or restaurants it´s even harder to find qualfied staff for a cruise ship which has to be manned 75% with US citizens or Greencard holders in the hotel department.

All crew, in all departments have to be US citizens, or 25% Green Card holders.  The major problem is that each and every one of the crew need to get a TWIC (transportation Workers Identification Card) and a Merchant Mariners Credential from the USCG.  These all take time to obtain the required safety training, FBI background checks, and medical processing.  When NCL hires someone, it can take about 3-5 months before that person is documented to join the ship.

 

Crew contracts on POA are for 4 months.  The hotel staff and the deck/engine ratings get one month paid vacation for every 4 months worked.  The deck/engine officers get 2 months for every 4 months worked.

 

As far as pay goes, the entry level crew make about what you would make in McDonalds, slightly above minimum wage, which in Hawaii is just over $10/hour.  Wages are set by collective bargaining agreements, as all crew (except hotel supervisors) are unionized. 

[ColeThornton]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

As far as pay goes, the entry level crew make about what you would make in McDonalds, slightly above minimum wage, which in Hawaii is just over $10/hour.  Wages are set by collective bargaining agreements, as all crew (except hotel supervisors) are unionized. 

 

 

Chief, that seems like a pretty crappy starting salary for a union gig.  What union are they organized under?

 

Thanks.

[jakebloke]

I love the idea of a 10 days Hawaii cruise with a foreign stop.  I'm going to miss my sea days.

 

  We decided to go to Hawaii for the big 50th birthday.  As we were pricing everything we realized we would be spending more money on a land vacation than on the POA cruise.....in a suite.  I understand this will be a taste of Hawaii, but we were basically planning on doing a similar itinerary but flying between the islands and staying in Hotels.  I know this isn't going to be our favorite ship/cruising experience, but I'm just going to go with the flow, understanding things are different and we'll have to make the most of it.  We love being at sea, so it made more sense to be on a ship in the evenings instead of an island.  Also, less airport/packing stress.  And bonus, it was surprisingly cheaper.  

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Chief, that seems like a pretty crappy starting salary for a union gig.  What union are they organized under?

 

Thanks.

The hotel workers are under the Seafarer's Entertainers and Associated Trades Union (SEATU), that is a subsidiary of the SIU (Seafarers International Union).  When we first started the US flag operation in Hawaii, NCL basically said "here's the manning list, and here's our crew budget, you work out how to make it work".  It came about that the deck/engine ratings were getting $0.35/hour less for overtime than they were for straight time.  That is allowed if there is a collective bargaining agreement.  We couldn't get anyone to work overtime, so they had to go back and renegotiate to 125% of straight time for overtime.  But, the hotel workers are still paid less than the technical crew.  For the unions, its all about the number of jobs (so they get more dues payers), rather than caring about the union members' welfare.

[bluenose1]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

All crew, in all departments have to be US citizens, or 25% Green Card holders.  The major problem is that each and every one of the crew need to get a TWIC (transportation Workers Identification Card) and a Merchant Mariners Credential from the USCG.  These all take time to obtain the required safety training, FBI background checks, and medical processing.  When NCL hires someone, it can take about 3-5 months before that person is documented to join the ship.

 

Crew contracts on POA are for 4 months.  The hotel staff and the deck/engine ratings get one month paid vacation for every 4 months worked.  The deck/engine officers get 2 months for every 4 months worked.

 

As far as pay goes, the entry level crew make about what you would make in McDonalds, slightly above minimum wage, which in Hawaii is just over $10/hour.  Wages are set by collective bargaining agreements, as all crew (except hotel supervisors) are unionized. 

Hi Cheng, does the crew have to pay for meals? Like all your comments. I am a retired Assistant Navigator. QMC/SS. 

 

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, bluenose1 said:

Hi Cheng, does the crew have to pay for meals? Like all your comments. I am a retired Assistant Navigator. QMC/SS. 

 

No, meals are provided.  If an officer, or a crew member with a special pass, wants to eat at a specialty restaurant, they have to pay the upcharge.

[shof515]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 For the unions, its all about the number of jobs (so they get more dues payers), rather than caring about the union members' welfare.

this is why i hate some unions. i pay my dues and they dont do anything for me 😞

[steamboats]

11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

All crew, in all departments have to be US citizens, or 25% Green Card holders.   

 

My information is that there is an exemption for the hotel department where 25% can be non US or non Greencard holders. This is part of the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act of October 2006. All other crew (especially nautical/deck crew) has to have a higher ratio of US/Greencard holders. Those 25% can only work up to 36 months. They must have worked for NCL at least one year prior to the Hawai´i contract. This is limited to nonlicensed seamen (which means hotel staff or entertainment staff.

 

steamboats

 

 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, steamboats said:

 

My information is that there is an exemption for the hotel department where 25% can be non US or non Greencard holders. This is part of the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act of October 2006. All other crew (especially nautical/deck crew) has to have a higher ratio of US/Greencard holders. Those 25% can only work up to 36 months. They must have worked for NCL at least one year prior to the Hawai´i contract. This is limited to nonlicensed seamen (which means hotel staff or entertainment staff.

 

steamboats

 

 

Deck and engine officers must be 100% US citizens.  Deck and engine crew must be 100% either US citizens or Green Card holders.  The total crew can be no more than 25% non-citizens.  NCL did get a waiver in 2006 to allow NRAC (non-Resident Alien Crew) to work on POA.  So, if there are Green Card holders in the deck/engine departments, this limits the number of Green Card or NRAC crew in the hotel department (when I say "hotel" department, this is all departments other than deck and engine), and the US officers limit this as well, since it is the total crew that must not exceed 25% non-citizens.  The NRAC crew must have worked for NCL for 10 years prior to working on the US flag ship (at least that was how it was when I worked there, it was for senior hotel supervisors), NCL had to obtain a work visa and assume sponsorship of the crew member while working in the US, the crew had to obtain the same documentation from the USCG and TSA as the US crew, and paid US taxes and Social Security (and while the taxes could be recouped, if they filed a US tax return, the SS was lost money).  There was also a time limit for NRAC crew, I believe you are correct in 36 months.

 

And, when you say "non-licensed", while this is correct, there is a difference between a merchant officer's "license" and his merchant mariner credential.  All seamen, whether deck, engine, or hotel (and this includes all departments onboard), must have a mariner's credential.  In the deck and engine departments, these are called "ratings" (think enlisted men in the navy), but the officers have a license from the USCG that makes them legally responsible for their actions and the actions of those working for them, like a doctor's or lawyer's license.  Every hotel or entertainment crew on POA, even the Hotel Director, is considered a "rating" by the USCG.

[piglet55cc]

My husband and I booked the POA for August 27 in Nov, 2021. We received a letter stating on June 21 that our reservations for an inside room were cancelled.  We were given up to $3997( the cost of our room) to book again. We decided to sail mid January. We are limited to the time we can go on vacation. Right now only 2 of our 5 excursions we had booked are available  at a much higher rate. And still only showing 12 areas to dine. The obstructed view room I booked costs $3800, so I am leaving $197 on the table, and the extra money can not be used for anything else. Not complaining, just explaining so people know how it works.

I would also recommend that people read the reviews of sailings in May and June sailings. I may have dodged a bullet.

[steamboats]

@chengkp75 sorry, my first link was wrong, this is the correct one and it´s §8103 and this should be the interesting part:

 

"(k) Crew Requirements for Large Passenger Vessels.—

(1) Citizenship and nationality.—Each unlicensed seaman on a large passenger vessel shall be—

(A) a citizen of the United States;

(B) an alien lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence;

(C) an alien allowed to be employed in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq.), including an alien crewman described in section 101(a)(15)(D)(i) of that Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(D)(i)), who meets the requirements of paragraph (3)(A) of this subsection; or

(D) a foreign national who is enrolled in the United States Merchant Marine Academy.

 

(2) Percentage limitation for alien seamen.—Not more than 25 percent of the unlicensed seamen on a vessel described in paragraph (1) of this subsection may be aliens referred to in subparagraph (B) or (C) of that paragraph.

(3) Special rules for certain unlicensed seamen.—

(A) Qualifications.—An unlicensed seaman described in paragraph (1)(C) of this subsection—

(i) shall have been employed, for a period of not less than 1 year, on a passenger vessel under the same common ownership or control as the vessel described in paragraph (1) of this subsection, as certified by the owner or managing operator of such vessel to the Secretary;

(ii) shall have no record of material disciplinary actions during such employment, as verified in writing by the owner or managing operator of such vessel to the Secretary;

(iii) shall have successfully completed a United States Government security check of the relevant domestic and international databases, as appropriate, or any other national security-related information or database;

(iv) shall have successfully undergone an employer background check—

(I) for which the owner or managing operator provides a signed report to the Secretary that describes the background checks undertaken that are reasonably and legally available to the owner or managing operator including personnel file information obtained from such seaman and from databases available to the public with respect to the seaman;

(II) that consisted of a search of all information reasonably available to the owner or managing operator in the seaman's country of citizenship and any other country in which the seaman receives employment referrals, or resides;

(III) that is kept on the vessel and available for inspection by the Secretary; and

(IV) the information derived from which is made available to the Secretary upon request; and

 

(v) may not be a citizen or temporary or permanent resident of a country designated by the United States as a sponsor of terrorism or any other country that the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the heads of other appropriate United States agencies, determines to be a security threat to the United States."

 

steamboats

[phillygwm]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:40 PM, altarr said:

 There is not a hiring problem in the country, there is a wage problem. None of the places paying workers properly are having staffing issues

I'll disagree.  I invariably make the comment on every cruise about how hard the crew works.  It's long days and, even if it isn't a skilled position, most positions I've seen are exhausting work.  

 

How much would it take to get a sufficient number of qualified Americans to do those jobs in a tight labor market?  Well, POA cruises are already among the priciest in NCL.  Those costs will increase further. 🙂

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by phillygwm

[Linsuesue]

I have not seen any recent information or observations about the Pride of America’s sailings. Staffing problems and restaurant closures were the last I heard. Has anybody sailed her recently to comment about the trip?

[joybob12]

We were fortunate to do the POA cruise in February 2020 before the whole pandemic shut down.  My dad enjoyed this cruise and we did too.  We decided to book it again with my brother and we will be on the September 3 sailing.  This will most likely be my dad's last vacation and I hope that we won't be cancelled.  We all have booked and paid for balcony staterooms.  We have specialty restaurants included in our package.  What restaurants are not open?  

[Paula_MacFan]

1 hour ago, joybob12 said:

  We have specialty restaurants included in our package.  What restaurants are not open?  

https://www.ncl.com/cruise-ship/pride-of-america/whats-on-board

 

See:  "Note -- this venue is temporarily closed" -- from NCL website.  

 

[dandelpino]

On 7/3/2022 at 8:21 AM, phillygwm said:

I'll disagree.  I invariably make the comment on every cruise about how hard the crew works.  It's long days and, even if it isn't a skilled position, most positions I've seen are exhausting work.  

 

How much would it take to get a sufficient number of qualified Americans to do those jobs in a tight labor market?  Well, POA cruises are already among the priciest in NCL.  Those costs will increase further. 🙂

 

You're basically disagreeing with the economics of supply and demand. Every job - no matter how difficult or unpleasant - will have a taker for the right price. There are people qualified  to do these jobs are out there right now but they aren't going to gift their labor to NCL so we can go on vacation.

 

Those people obviously existed on this planet before the 2020 shutdown and while some will have left the labor market, most of them are still working. But those people aren't going to return to work for NCL unless they are paid what their labor is worth today. NCL could have all the dining venues open in a month if they offered the same wage as a comparable land based position in Hawaii.

 

I get that no one wants the price of cruising to increase, but it's disingenuous to say that this labor shortage on the POA is anything but a money issue. 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

I think POA might get worse before it gets better. Original crew is going to fill their contracts and likely leave. From what I remember pre-covid, The American Crew on POA did not renew contracts as often.

 

 

[MSUjohn]

i just hope moderno is open by january.

[NayRN]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:40 PM, altarr said:

 There is not a hiring problem in the country, there is a wage problem. None of the places paying workers properly are having staffing issues

We can’t keep staff at the hospitals with great pay, great benefits and sign on bonuses. I work with new hire onboarding…..we bring them in this week and they’re gone the next!

[MSUjohn]

18 minutes ago, NayRN said:

We can’t keep staff at the hospitals with great pay, great benefits and sign on bonuses. I work with new hire onboarding…..we bring them in this week and they’re gone the next!

iam a prison guard, the MDOC is short maybe 1000 guards.

[BermudaBound2014]

I can't figure out where everyone is getting the money if we can't find workers. It's true that a great deal of the work force retired during Covid, but people have to be getting hungry. My DH always says that people will go back to work when they are hungry enough. 

[NayRN]

1 hour ago, MSUjohn said:

iam a prison guard, the MDOC is short maybe 1000 guards.

We are seeing a whole bunch of prison nurses coming through our health system. Thanks for everything you do there…..I know it’s a tough job!  PS - should I say GO GREEN for the MSU part of your screen name? If so, consider it done!!

[phillygwm]

3 hours ago, dandelpino said:

I get that no one wants the price of cruising to increase, but it's disingenuous to say that this labor shortage on the POA is anything but a money issue. 

 

I totally agree with the argument that this is a supply and demand issue.  But you're looking at it from the labor standpoint.  I'm looking it at from a cruiser's standpoint.

 

The POA cruises are already the most costly of any destination and the service levels, from what I've read here and elsewhere, tend to come up short versus other ships.  Without doing an exhaustive cost analysis, the cheapest inside cabin on POA (7 days) is $1449, so $207/day.  A 12 day on the Spirit, Tahiti/French Polynesia/Hawaii itinerary, is $2323, or $193/day.  Not a big difference, but what happens if POA labor costs (already high because of the required American staffing) increase by 30-50%?  It isn't inconceivable that the all-in cost of 7 days on POA becomes more than 12 days on Spirit.  What happens to POA demand then?

Edited August 1, 2022 by phillygwm

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, dandelpino said:

I get that no one wants the price of cruising to increase, but it's disingenuous to say that this labor shortage on the POA is anything but a money issue.

Even if you paid the dishwasher on the POA $100k/year, they would still have difficulty getting crew.  As I've stated earlier in this thread, the documentation requirements are vastly different for US flag crew than for foreign crew, and this has been backlogged for over two years now.  At the best of times, the documentation required 3-4 months to complete.

 

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

From what I remember pre-covid, The American Crew on POA did not renew contracts as often.

You are correct, at one time if a waiter came back for a second contract, he/she was made up to assistant maitre 'd.

[dandelpino]

56 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Even if you paid the dishwasher on the POA $100k/year, they would still have difficulty getting crew. 

There are plenty of people who currently work on merchant ships in the US (with a TWIC and MMC in good standing) who would quit/nonrenew their contracts and go wash dishes on Pride for $100k/year. Plenty of port workers who already have a TWIC and would only need an MMC. It wouldn't happen in a day but you'd have Pride up to full capacity pretty fast if NCL were willing to pay. It is purely money issue.