CCL offers another 1 Billion in common stock :(

[BermudaBound2014]

12 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

A good read from Travel Weekly's columnist about the current and future state of cruise lines and the travel industry as a whole. https://www.travelweekly.com/Arnie-Weissmann/With-Crystal-revival-a-major-miracle

 

A snippet: [during the pandemic, and now] "It was particularly hopeful to see votes of confidence in the travel industry come in from every class of investor: private equity, sovereign funds,  investment banks, public markets, wealthy individuals, and in many cases, existing financial partners who invested even more money.  Money flowed into every industry sector from rental cars to tour operators to cruise to airlines to technology."

.....   "Putting money into travel businesses is, in part, a faith-based decision: faith that travel is inherent to the human spirit. In other words, a safe bet."   

 

This is a nice feel good article written by a company whose job it is to make us feel good about travel.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't address the fact that cruise ships are the only travel that was shuttered for over a year and, up until recently, held hostage to covid protocols that the rest of the travel industry were exempt from. As a result, the balance sheets of the cruise industry are in significantly worse shape than the balance sheets of the remaining travel sector (airlines, car rentals, hotels, etc..) 

 

At this point, it's all about servicing the debt that the cruise lines have accumulated. In the case of Carnival, that is 35 Billion dollars. To put this in perspective, their net income in 2019 was only 3 Billion dollars. Assuming they can bounce back to pre-pandemic profits in 2023 (they can't), if you factor in interest on the loans, the debt looks insurmountable. 

[LocoLoco1]

28 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

This is a nice feel good article written by a company whose job it is to make us feel good about travel.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't address the fact that cruise ships are the only travel that was shuttered for over a year and, up until recently, held hostage to covid protocols that the rest of the travel industry were exempt from. As a result, the balance sheets of the cruise industry are in significantly worse shape than the balance sheets of the remaining travel sector (airlines, car rentals, hotels, etc..) 

 

At this point, it's all about servicing the debt that the cruise lines have accumulated. In the case of Carnival, that is 35 Billion dollars. To put this in perspective, their net income in 2019 was only 3 Billion dollars. Assuming they can bounce back to pre-pandemic profits in 2023 (they can't), if you factor in interest on the loans, the debt looks insurmountable. 

BermudaBound… The Business model looks broken.  My booked TransAtlantic may soon offer me clues to whether the ‘Onboard Experience’ will take a hit. I’m Guessing it will. Can CCL control Debt or Fuel expense? No. Port $Fees$. No. Headcount? Yes. Dining surcharges? Yes. Refurbishing? Yes. Tour/Transfer charges? Yes. Nonetheless, there may come the moment when deep pocket investor’s demands collide with the Debtors inability to pay.  

[DaveOKC]

Backing up my previous comment - this from Market Watch:

 

Shares of Carnival Corp. CCL, -11.18% tumbled 11.2% in morning trading Thursday, to pace the S&P 500's SPX, +0.99% after the cruise operator caused investors to "panic" with its $1 billion public equity offering. The company said late Wednesday that the offering, which represented about about 10% of the current market capitalization of $9.79 billion, priced at $9.95 a share, or a 10.3% discount to Wednesday's closing price of $11.09. The offering comes after the stock had rocketed 27.3% amid a four-day win streak to close Wednesday at a six-week high. 

[LocoLoco1]

Watching CCL stock bounce around $9.80/share here on Friday. MY thoughts: Despite deep pocket financiers getting hellishly high interest from their bonds there are other wonks obviously thinking  it’s still worth $9.80/share. So be it, my November cruise is booked; but surely my nonchalance will sink if the Dining Rm. goes to paper napkins 

[Boatdrill]

5 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

This is a nice feel good article written by a company whose job it is to make us feel good about travel.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't address the fact that cruise ships are the only travel that was shuttered for over a year and, up until recently, held hostage to covid protocols that the rest of the travel industry were exempt from.

The article wasn't written by a company. It was written by a person, who's the editor in chief of Travel Weekly. Did you read paragraphs 3 and 4 in the article ?? 

The writer addresses exactly what you say is missing.  

Edited July 22, 2022 by Boatdrill

[Jim9310]

Having lost FCC money when Genting HK (Crystal Cruises owner) collapsed, I learned that most of the creditors' claims (e.g. lenders, bond holders, crews, ports, suppliers, TAs, etc.) have a priority position ahead of customer claims.  Reliable insurance and good credit card back up are very important.

 

Carnival had a Net Loss of $10.2 billion for fiscal year 2020 and $9.5 billion for fiscal year 2021, ending on Nov 30.  They had an additional Net Loss of $1.3 billion for the latest half year, ending on May 31.

By issuing $1 billion of new stock they will improve their liquidity and cash positions, but they also need to eliminate their recurring losses.

 

[iancal]

I am always surprised at how cavalier some people can be about leaving money owed to them sitting in a vendor account.

 

This is not about 'loving' the vendor  or being a loyal customer. It is about good personal financial management. 

 

 We would never consider leaving money with any vendor unless we knew that we could absorb the credit within 90 days. 

 

Just ask some of the loyal Crystal customers who were owed money for months, years, and subsequently ended up on the unsecured creditors list with little or no hope of recovery.

 

Not in any way comparing CCL to the disaster that was Crystal.  Seems to be common sense to me to get your money back into your account rather than the cruise line account.

Edited July 22, 2022 by iancal

[LocoLoco1]

Iancal, Indeed. It will serve loyal HAL cruisers well to be careful with their monies. Here’s hoping the industry survives. Aside from CCL’s debt leisure travel in general is becoming less user-friendly and certainly not cheaper. That’s serious headwinds. 

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, Jim9310 said:

They had an additional Net Loss of $1.3 billion for the latest half year, ending on May 31.

 

I don’t believe this is correct. I’m showing another loss of 1.9 Billion Q1 and 2.07 Billion Q2 for a net loss of close to 4 Billion so far this year. Ccl has said they expect to add to debt Q322, Q422, and Q123
 

Total in the hole is 35 Billion and climbing daily. 

[BermudaBound2014]

3 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

The article wasn't written by a company. It was written by a person, who's the editor in chief of Travel Weekly. Did you read paragraphs 3 and 4 in the article ?? 

The writer addresses exactly what you say is missing.  

 Let me clarify-

 

Nice feel good article written by someone who works for a company whose job it is is to make us feel good about travel 😉

 

He mentions what I am referencing sure, but then glosses over the actual facts related to debt. Instead he turns to talk about companies who have worked themselves out of BK. Absolutely no comparison. 

 

CCL closed today at $9.26 while common shares were offered for $9.95. The only thing to feel good about here is the fact that this stock isn’t $7.  

Edited July 22, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[NavyCruiser]

Meanwhile major Airlines received covid relief $$$, has no restrictions/covid regulations, high consumer demands, crowded & long lines/waits at airports, lost luggage, & now making record profits... 

[Jim9310]

38 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I don’t believe this is correct. I’m showing another loss of 1.9 Billion Q1 and 2.07 Billion Q2 for a net loss of close to 4 Billion so far this year. Ccl has said they expect to add to debt Q322, Q422, and Q123
 

Total in the hole is 35 Billion and climbing daily. 

It was $3.7 billion.  In error, I got my 6 month (Nov21-May22) figure from a Carnival Group 10-Q, not from a Carnival Corp. 10-Q. 

[BermudaBound2014]

56 minutes ago, Jim9310 said:

It was $3.7 billion.  In error, I got my 6 month (Nov21-May22) figure from a Carnival Group 10-Q, not from a Carnival Corp. 10-Q. 

 

The 10Q shows 3.967 Billion (what I stated in post #34 only I rounded up to 4B). What am I missing?

 

[ChinaShrek]

2 hours ago, NavyCruiser said:

Meanwhile major Airlines received covid relief $$$, has no restrictions/covid regulations, high consumer demands, crowded & long lines/waits at airports, lost luggage, & now making record profits... 

 

And those airlines are based in the United States and employ Americans! If cruise lines did the same thing they would not be losing money!

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, NavyCruiser said:

Meanwhile major Airlines received covid relief $$$, has no restrictions/covid regulations, high consumer demands, crowded & long lines/waits at airports, lost luggage, & now making record profits... 

 

The difference has been the nationalities of the companies.

 

38 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

And those airlines are based in the United States and employ Americans! If cruise lines did the same thing they would not be losing money!

 

And, being required to employ Americans with the wage scale that had to be paid:  can one imagine the price of cruises that would need to be charged?  

 

4 hours ago, iancal said:

I am always surprised at how cavalier some people can be about leaving money owed to them sitting in a vendor account.

 

 

Without knowing the exact details offered by various cruise lines, the choice between a cash refund and a FCC has caused me to wonder why one would not choose the "bird in hand"--cash.  I have a future cruise deposit somewhere on HAL's books that, I have been told that is refundable on demand or will be refunded after a period of time if I don't use it.  I am OK with that.  If I don't get it, I still have enough money in my bank account to pay for my next fill-up of gasoline.

 

3 hours ago, LocoLoco1 said:

Aside from CCL’s debt leisure travel in general is becoming less user-friendly and certainly not cheaper. That’s serious headwinds. 

 

The increase in the "hoops" that one has to transverse to travel will be a serious impediment to those who have the financial means and time to travel.  This ArriveCan nonsense is example #1.  

[CafeBruno]

Let me offer a different perspective on this discussion. (1) while Carnival has added to its debt load tremendously since early 2020, their overall debt load is still very reasonable, and in fact proportionately much, much lower compared to major airlines, who were obviously also greatly affected by the pandemic. Carnival definitely does NOT have an upside down balance sheet, as was stated earlier. And (2) as DaveOKC said, its smarter and healthier for Carnival to raise an additional $1B through the stock offering discussed here, rather than a debt offering.

 

Why do I say their total debt load is still reasonable and ok? One way the financial analysts evaluate this is by calculating what’s called the “debt to equity” ratio. It’s total liabilities (all the company’s debts to all creditors) divided by total equity (total capitalization from common stock offerings and from accumulated prior earnings; also equal to total assets minus total liabilities). Carnival’s 5/31/22 financials show total liabilities of $44.7B (of which $35B is loans), and total equity of $8.2B, which will become $9.2B after the $1B stock sale closes, so the debt/equity ratio after the stock sale will be 44.7/9.2 = 4.85/1. Is that good or bad? Well, it’s much worse than it was prior to the pandemic – the ratio was .77/1 in Carnival’s 11/30/19 financials. But its way better than the airlines.

 

Well wait, you may say, its unhealthy to have any debt at all!! How can they ever pay off over $35B of loans!! The answer is, they won’t ever pay it all off – it’s unhealthy for big corporations to do that. They SHOULD carry debt, at a debt/ratio of at least 1:1 to 2:1, or maybe more. This is called “Leverage” – and its how all corporations operate – using other people’s money (debt) to a greater degree than using their own money. So while Carnival will likely pay down some of the $35B debt once they return to profitability, most of it they will just continue to refinance into the future. And as (if) they return to profitability, equity will go up and their debt/equity ratio will go down to a healthier range.

 

Also – only $9.7B of Carnival’s $35B total debt is secured, and the rest is unsecured, meaning if they go Chapter 11, the unsecured creditors are entitled to nothing except what is negotiated, while the secured creditors get the ships and other assets. That means Carnival will have a lot of leverage if it ever gets to bankruptcy.   

 

Finally, in comparison to Carnival, the major airlines have much, much higher debt/equity ratios, meaning they are in much worse financial shape than Carnival, yet people don’t seem concerned about the airlines. For example, United Airlines’ 6/30/22 financials show total debts of $66.4B, and equity of $3.96B, for a debt/equity ratio of 16.8 – 3 times that of Carnival’s! And American Airlines is even worse, showing debts at 6/30/22 of $76.4B and equity of negative $8.4B, so the debt/equity ratio is infinite (and infinitely bad!) Yes, American has negative total equity, meaning they are technically insolvent, because their liabilities are $8.4B higher than their assets. Carnival’s total equity is way less than it was pre-pandemic, but at least it’s still positive at $9.2B. Yet, we still fly American.

 

Anyway, all that to say that the gloom and doom about the future of Carnival and HAL is overblown. The numbers simply don’t support the idea that HAL is upside down, a house of cards ready to tumble down, or close to a reorganization/Chapter 11. Should we resist giving HAL any $$? Up to you. I myself have 4 HAL cruises booked, for 60 cruise days, in 2022-2023, and I’m looking forward to each of them.  

 

If anyone wants to verify my numbers, you can go to the SEC’s website of public filings – for example search “Carnival 10Q” and it should be the first link.

  

[rkacruiser]

Debt is a "four letter word".  But, it is not always the negative that it implies.  Thanks for your post.  

[BermudaBound2014]

18 hours ago, CafeBruno said:

Let me offer a different perspective on this discussion. (1) while Carnival has added to its debt load tremendously since early 2020, their overall debt load is still very reasonable, and in fact proportionately much, much lower compared to major airlines, who were obviously also greatly affected by the pandemic. Carnival definitely does NOT have an upside down balance sheet, as was stated earlier. And (2) as DaveOKC said, its smarter and healthier for Carnival to raise an additional $1B through the stock offering discussed here, rather than a debt offering.

 

Why do I say their total debt load is still reasonable and ok? One way the financial analysts evaluate this is by calculating what’s called the “debt to equity” ratio. It’s total liabilities (all the company’s debts to all creditors) divided by total equity (total capitalization from common stock offerings and from accumulated prior earnings; also equal to total assets minus total liabilities). Carnival’s 5/31/22 financials show total liabilities of $44.7B (of which $35B is loans), and total equity of $8.2B, which will become $9.2B after the $1B stock sale closes, so the debt/equity ratio after the stock sale will be 44.7/9.2 = 4.85/1. Is that good or bad? Well, it’s much worse than it was prior to the pandemic – the ratio was .77/1 in Carnival’s 11/30/19 financials. But its way better than the airlines.

 

Well wait, you may say, its unhealthy to have any debt at all!! How can they ever pay off over $35B of loans!! The answer is, they won’t ever pay it all off – it’s unhealthy for big corporations to do that. They SHOULD carry debt, at a debt/ratio of at least 1:1 to 2:1, or maybe more. This is called “Leverage” – and its how all corporations operate – using other people’s money (debt) to a greater degree than using their own money. So while Carnival will likely pay down some of the $35B debt once they return to profitability, most of it they will just continue to refinance into the future. And as (if) they return to profitability, equity will go up and their debt/equity ratio will go down to a healthier range.

 

Also – only $9.7B of Carnival’s $35B total debt is secured, and the rest is unsecured, meaning if they go Chapter 11, the unsecured creditors are entitled to nothing except what is negotiated, while the secured creditors get the ships and other assets. That means Carnival will have a lot of leverage if it ever gets to bankruptcy.   

 

Finally, in comparison to Carnival, the major airlines have much, much higher debt/equity ratios, meaning they are in much worse financial shape than Carnival, yet people don’t seem concerned about the airlines. For example, United Airlines’ 6/30/22 financials show total debts of $66.4B, and equity of $3.96B, for a debt/equity ratio of 16.8 – 3 times that of Carnival’s! And American Airlines is even worse, showing debts at 6/30/22 of $76.4B and equity of negative $8.4B, so the debt/equity ratio is infinite (and infinitely bad!) Yes, American has negative total equity, meaning they are technically insolvent, because their liabilities are $8.4B higher than their assets. Carnival’s total equity is way less than it was pre-pandemic, but at least it’s still positive at $9.2B. Yet, we still fly American.

 

Anyway, all that to say that the gloom and doom about the future of Carnival and HAL is overblown. The numbers simply don’t support the idea that HAL is upside down, a house of cards ready to tumble down, or close to a reorganization/Chapter 11. Should we resist giving HAL any $$? Up to you. I myself have 4 HAL cruises booked, for 60 cruise days, in 2022-2023, and I’m looking forward to each of them.  

 

If anyone wants to verify my numbers, you can go to the SEC’s website of public filings – for example search “Carnival 10Q” and it should be the first link.

  

 

I disagree with your  assessment. Sure, a case could be made on the surface for CCL not being underwater; especially if you are only examining debt to asset ratios, but this only tells part of the story and is an extremely simplistic way to determine the overall health of a company. I believe once carefully examine the balance sheet, your conclusion fails the sniff test (at least it fails my sniff test).

 

To keep things simple, there are three major things your debt to asset  assessment has glossed over.

 

1) Assumption to property, plant, equipment is likely way overblown (as is the case with most businesses). I don't believe they can sell assets for 39 Billion dollars in this environment. Who wants to buy a cruise ship? A likely buyer is going to wait until ships are worth pennies on the dollar to pounce. In other words, a huge chunk of their assets on the books is 'squishy'  while their debt is a fixed hard number.

 

2) You have not accounted for the potential acceleration clauses in the 35 Billion dollars of debt. I would be shocked if some of their debt is not tagged with an acceleration clause. To make matters worse, rising interest rates make restructuring very difficult. I believe 15 Billion of the debt is floating which is going to be a huge ouchy if (when) the feds raise interest rates again net week. Carrying debt is healthy for a company as long as they can make the payments. 

 

3) CCL continues to add approximately 2 Billion to their debt each quarter and has stated openly they plan to do so until the middle of 2023.  In other words, they aren't making any money and don't plan to do so in the immediate future. What happens when CCL can't make their debt payment? At the current cash burn rate, how close are we to this date (especially with any acceleration clauses)? I agree not all debt is bad, but it's VERY bad when you can't generate enough money to pay your bills. At some point, creditors will insist on being paid.

 

I do acknowledge that CCL is "less underwater" than NCL and RCl, if only because they can easily spin off entire lines to raise cash. They are behemoth in the industry. NCL and RCL have far fewer 'squishy' assets to work off of. 

 

FWIW; I agree that on the books, the airlines are also in bad shape. If you are suggesting that the airlines are in worse shape than the cruise lines, I disagree for two main reasons. 1) Planes are flying full at rates that are higher than pre pandemic  2) Airlines are considered essential and will benefit from fed bailout.

 

Should cruise lines start to sell out inventory that changes the narrative. Based on what I've read, cruise lines have had a very good summer season which will be followed by dismal sales this fall.  See #2 above.

 

 Covid is still keeping passengers off ships. Covid protocols are keeping others off. Perhaps the biggest blow to the industry is Johnny Public's perception of cruising in a petri dish which may keep some off ships forever. Ships can't afford to sail with open berths.

 

Those of the belief that cruise lines will bounce back to selling at pre-pandemic levels quickly can have faith. I don't share that optimism. At best, I see restructuring in the future. If CCL announces they are selling off Seabourn we'll know who was correct ;-). If restructuring doesn't happen in the next year, I'll come back to this thread and congratulate you on your position. 

 

 

 

 

[CafeBruno]

Feel free to disagree! Yes I tried to keep a very complex topic simple, since most readers here are not corporate finance experts or CPA’s. I’m a long time partner in a big national CPA firm and I can use a lot more technical jargon to explain why Carnival is in much better financial shape than some are postulating, but I don’t think that would be of interest to most readers.

 

Couple of clarifications – I did not do a “debt to asset assessment”, in fact that’s not really a thing. I did a Debt to Equity ratio, same as Wall Street uses. There’s a huge difference between assets and equity.

 

As the SEC 10Q filing shows, only $7B of CCL’s total debt is secured by actual CCL assets, and $28B is unsecured (uncollateralized). So if CCL can’t make their debt payments, and the lender wants to repossess the assets, they can only repossess $7B of assets (but its unlikely they would do that, they would just renegotiate the terms). The debt holders for the remaining $28B of debt have no collateral, and no recourse except to try and force CCL into bankruptcy. They could do that, but it’s more likely they will just negotiate new terms, like extended maturities.

 

So what if the debt covenants have an acceleration clause? If CCL defaults, and the debt holders demand to accelerate the debt, that will just force a renegotiation of the terms, because no lender wants to foreclose and take possession of collateral assets. Banks and other lenders don’t want to be in the cruise business, they just want terms that CCL can live with to pay off the loans.  

 

On the comparison to the airlines – I am not suggesting American and United are in worse financial shape than CCL; this is an indisputable fact. Take a look at American’s latest 10Q – as I said, their assets total $83.8B, and their liabilities total $76.4B, and therefore the difference is negative equity of $8.4B.  That’s the definition of “underwater” or an upside down balance sheet – when your liabilities exceed your assets. CCL is not that position, as after the $1B stock offering, they will show assets of $53.9B, liabilities of $44.7B, and positive equity of $9.2B. So its just not factual to say that American or United is in better financial shape than CCL.

 

Finally, I never said CCL would not sell off Seaborne, HAL or anyone else. they could, for any number of legitimate reasons. I am just saying that the data shows CCL is not in nearly as bad of financial shape as some are saying.

 

Again, feel free to disagree, but I will continue to stick to facts and data.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, CafeBruno said:

Feel free to disagree! Yes I tried to keep a very complex topic simple, since most readers here are not corporate finance experts or CPA’s. I’m a long time partner in a big national CPA firm and I can use a lot more technical jargon to explain why Carnival is in much better financial shape than some are postulating, but I don’t think that would be of interest to most readers.

 

Couple of clarifications – I did not do a “debt to asset assessment”, in fact that’s not really a thing. I did a Debt to Equity ratio, same as Wall Street uses. There’s a huge difference between assets and equity.

 

As the SEC 10Q filing shows, only $7B of CCL’s total debt is secured by actual CCL assets, and $28B is unsecured (uncollateralized). So if CCL can’t make their debt payments, and the lender wants to repossess the assets, they can only repossess $7B of assets (but its unlikely they would do that, they would just renegotiate the terms). The debt holders for the remaining $28B of debt have no collateral, and no recourse except to try and force CCL into bankruptcy. They could do that, but it’s more likely they will just negotiate new terms, like extended maturities.

 

So what if the debt covenants have an acceleration clause? If CCL defaults, and the debt holders demand to accelerate the debt, that will just force a renegotiation of the terms, because no lender wants to foreclose and take possession of collateral assets. Banks and other lenders don’t want to be in the cruise business, they just want terms that CCL can live with to pay off the loans.  

 

On the comparison to the airlines – I am not suggesting American and United are in worse financial shape than CCL; this is an indisputable fact. Take a look at American’s latest 10Q – as I said, their assets total $83.8B, and their liabilities total $76.4B, and therefore the difference is negative equity of $8.4B.  That’s the definition of “underwater” or an upside down balance sheet – when your liabilities exceed your assets. CCL is not that position, as after the $1B stock offering, they will show assets of $53.9B, liabilities of $44.7B, and positive equity of $9.2B. So its just not factual to say that American or United is in better financial shape than CCL.

 

Finally, I never said CCL would not sell off Seaborne, HAL or anyone else. they could, for any number of legitimate reasons. I am just saying that the data shows CCL is not in nearly as bad of financial shape as some are saying.

 

Again, feel free to disagree, but I will continue to stick to facts and data.

 

Of course, Debt to Equity. How embarrassing, It was a long long night ;-).

 

Without getting into a debate in which neither one of us are going to change their minds, I believe that liabilities of CCL do exceed their assets when you take into account the complexities of the industry. 

 

We shall agree to disagree :). 

 

 

 

[LocoLoco1]

As a regular cruiser I see it thusly: So maybe CCL or ?? disappear on paper; but then so did ENRON, yet their pipelines kept on flowing. Railroads folded, but the trains kept running (often much faster and better maintained track). Several cruiselines are recently no more, but their higher quality vessels sailed on. Yes, excess capacity can be cruel to the weak, but putting bodies in a quality bunk will continue no matter what Logo is on the funnel. It will probably be a cut-throat coupla years for the survivors, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be in the business. I’m booked for November. 

[iancal]

56 minutes ago, LocoLoco1 said:

As a regular cruiser I see it thusly: So maybe CCL or ?? disappear on paper; but then so did ENRON, yet their pipelines kept on flowing. Railroads folded, but the trains kept running (often much faster and better maintained track). Several cruiselines are recently no more, but their higher quality vessels sailed on. Yes, excess capacity can be cruel to the weak, but putting bodies in a quality bunk will continue no matter what Logo is on the funnel. It will probably be a cut-throat coupla years for the survivors, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be in the business. I’m booked for November. 

I feel much the same way.   

 

However, we are starting to travel now and we are being very careful .  Pay with credit cards, not too far in advance.  Always have refundable bookings just in case one part of the puzzle goes south.  Certainly no future credits of any kind.   And never leaving any monies needless on deposit with any travel vendor-cruise or otherwise.

 

At one point we did have a small $1200. credit with TUI, one of the worlds largest travel vendors.  Airlines, cruise ships, hotels, vacations...you name it.   To their credit we rec'd a reminder every 60 days that it was there along with a note that said if we did not specifically request a refund or use the credit by Oct 21 they would send us a refund.  And they did just that, without our requesting it, as promised.  We were impressed and will willingly do more business with them.  I think they were an exception.

 

I have no doubt that there will be changes in all cruise line holding companies.  I do not think that anything will be off the table.   I also think the heads up will be when significant debtholders/creditors and  institutional investors start to flex their muscle at the board and at the senior management level.....and are purposely seen to be doing so.

Edited July 24, 2022 by iancal

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, iancal said:

I also think the heads up will be when significant debtholders/creditors and  institutional investors start to flex their muscle at the board and at the senior management level.....and are purposely seen to be doing so.

 

We are not there and given the bi-polar analysis by the financial community of CCL, we aren't going to be there for some time.  

[JesseLivermore]

On 7/21/2022 at 9:29 AM, willoL said:

Yes, I can confirm this because I bought 100 shares of CCL when it dipped below $10/share in June and today $250 OBC showing for each of my two HAL cruise staterooms departing 8/3/2022. (One joint shareholder booked in each cabin.)

 

The cruise was booked before I bought the stock; my TA got the OBC applied on my behalf.

 

wow. How quickly does the OBC post? I have a 7/31 cruise coming up.  This would be my version of gambling 😉 

[oaktreerb]

1 hour ago, JesseLivermore said:

 

wow. How quickly does the OBC post? I have a 7/31 cruise coming up.  This would be my version of gambling 😉 

HAL asks that you apply for the shareholder credit at least three weeks in advance of cruising.  In a normal environment they can apply the credit within a shorter window.  These days it’s taking longer than usual.