Elon Musk's SpaceX’s Starlink in an Industry-first to Provide High-speed Internet Onboard Full Cruise Fleet

[HMR74]

16 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

If you think the price is going to go down, or stay where it is now, you are sadly mistaken.

The current price, whatever it is, gets you a marginal to poor product. The new internet is supposed to be much better and faster, which means it’s worth more money to the customer.  Also, the start up cost, for implementing this on all 24, in this ships, will be astronomical. They have massive debt and supposedly in business to make a profit so hold on to your wallet. Look at the alcohol mark up, when buying by the drink. For example, we drink mostly domestic beer so today I stocked up because of a Labor Day sale. I paid about $.55 per 12oz. serving, tax included. I don’t buy any on the ship but I believe it’s pushing $9, tip included. My cost was per case, no quantity discount, at the quantity they buy, that probably get a better price than my sale one.

I like you are apparently value oriented. The classic package reisling is $9 plus the 18%.  Basically the same as in restaurants. I buy a case on sale for 5 bucks a bottle. It tastes great/fantastic  at $5 a bottle. The premium (on X) reisling tastes better to me and that bottle retails for 16 but its order only.

 

Now to the internet and where they get the money. Celebrity is already advertising that if you want the high speed starlink, it is the  premium package. . Celebrity says upgrade to the high speed pkg and voila you have it. I think eventually they end up with just the premium starlink service. Simplifies everyhting. They know the  numbers they have to hit.

 

I have premium internet included on x, so I do not know the ala carte price, but I waited for a sale to buy the ZOOM surf package on Oasis saved a lot. . Something like 147 for the first, and the 4th one on sale is a $28 increment. Average of 82 per package per week.

I do not think the price is terribly high and yes in total its big dollars, however, its for 4300 on Beyond including the crew.

 

Starlink public price I mentioned earlier for a standalone system is 550 for equipment and 110 a month per sub. I will just guess that even if it was 4300 subscriptions needed, its 2.3 mil up front for beyond. The ship cost 1.4 bil. 4300 subscriptions a month (by now you might guess I am a bean counter) at 110 retail price is 473,000 per month. Lets assunme the average cruis has 2500 guests on board and 2000 buy the full servic internet. At Royals best current price-on sale and buying 4 for on cabin, its 11.71 per day.

11.71 times 2000 times 30 days is 702,000 in internet revenue a month vs 473,000 retail cost , which leaves a lot of profit to pay for the equipment in about a year. I just do not know what the current margin is. But the system stinks. 

 

Anyway, they could easily get away with charging slighly more. But they do not need to. They have already said teh cost to them is substantially less with these low orbit sats.

All the cruise lines need to focus on getting occupancy back to where it was, and then make sure they are properly staffed number wise and then properly staffed to meet the skills requred.

 

There are some days we would just like to sit on balcony and fresh ocean air,  and watch a movie of our choice on one of the streamers. Or binge watch something. The current system signal does not make it out to the balcony. This new one should.

 

In the end I look at cost of the whole package and reduce it to a per day basis. At some point it just gets too pricey for what you get at each  level of service, depending on how we each grade it.

 

 

 

 

[jrmende63]

On 8/31/2022 at 9:57 AM, NutsAboutGolf said:

Thanks!

How much did it cost?

Were there different starlink speeds offered?

Was a different reduced speed non-starlink internet offered?

 Don't know the cost bc it was included in our sailing. No different speeds offered or  non- starlink offered.

[mnocket]

19 hours ago, canderson said:

@RichYak

I haven't been in the official doghouse since 2005 when I mentioned that a permanently banned RCG passenger had switched to WD-40 for personal protection.  Think about a dozen of us were given a hiatus. Yeah, my protest of being in the doghouse is where the avatar came from.

 

As for Starlink...

 

If my research on the current REAL satellite service provider is for RCG ships is correct, not the middlemen, the service is presently provided to the ship's via satellites distributed along a geosynchronous orbit.  The two major downsides to this are bandwidth (much higher orbit requiring a great deal more power per bit) and a diminishing signal as the latitude increases.  The upside is that it's a lot cheaper to deploy, especially as it doesn't require the large number of ground stations that a LEO constellation requires.  Bandwidth costs money.  

 

I'm pleased that RCG has, earlier than some others, come to the conclusion that shipboard data demands are, as they are everywhere else, inevitably headed nowhere but up, and are trying to find ways to meet expectations.

 

I'll confess to pulling my phone out at the dinner table in Luminae to check on an unfamiliar wine, something I am now accustomed to doing regularly on land.

I don't know what your actual beef is with Starlilnk, but to add to your "research" the primary reason for Starlink's use of LEO vs geosynchronous is to reduce latency.  The engineering to make this happen is truly amazing.  Watch this video on Starlink's technology and I think you'll agree it's quite an accomplishment.

 

For people like me who live in an area with no options for high speed internet, Starlink has been a game changer.  Many people take high speed internet for granted and were surprised to learn that even a small distance outside of Denver it was just not available.  Starlink has changed that - worldwide.

[canderson]

3 minutes ago, mnocket said:

I don't know what your actual beef is with Starlilnk, but to add to your "research" the primary reason for Starlink's use of LEO vs geosynchronous is to reduce latency. 

 

Many people take high speed internet for granted and were surprised to learn that even a small distance outside of Denver it was just not available.  Starlink has changed that - worldwide.

I have no beef with Starlink.  Not sure where you got that idea.  There's someone else in these threads who keeps referring to "space junk".  All i did was explain the geometry and infrastructure differences that require so much hardware to get the job done.  For me, the only challenge is coming up with designs for additional 'assets' to keep track of them all!

 

Didn't realize we were both from near Denver.  Sounds like you're not far west of town.

[mnocket]

Just now, canderson said:

I have no beef with Starlink.  Not sure where you got that idea.  There's someone else in these threads who keeps referring to "space junk".  All i did was explain the geometry and infrastructure differences that require so much hardware to get the job done.  For me, the only challenge is coming up with designs for additional 'assets' to keep track of them all!

 

Didn't realize we were both from near Denver.  Sounds like you're not far west of town.

Sorry, I mistakenly credited you with the "space junk" comment.  Junk implies something of no value and for someone who has suffered many years of <1MB/s internet, Starlink has been a game-changer.  

 

Yeah I live not too far west of Denver, but north of I-70 where we only had painfully slow Centurylink DSL (due to distance).  Starlink changed that.  Now I can actually stream.  In fact, the cost savings from switching from DirecTV to YoutubeTV pretty much covers the monthly cost of Starlink.

[HMR74]

So, I was reading this AM that China is concerned about Starlink capabilities to watch China and a Minister of something wanted to find a way of getting rid of the satallites.

[Moonarino]

20 minutes ago, mnocket said:

. . . the cost savings from switching from DirecTV to YoutubeTV pretty much covers the monthly cost of Starlink.

I dumped my DTV satellite 3-4 years ago and I've never looked back. Was already paying for Prime's free shipping and was pleasantly surprise to find how much TV it also included. Then proceeded through several streaming services till I settled on YT TV (for now).

 

Some people apparently don't realize how big space (even inner space) is. I'm presently wondering what the general mean circumference of the LEO region is. I'm sure it's a quite a bit smaller than 22k miles up, but still. Next question would be how much total volume, and then it follows, what percentage of volume all of that "junk" is taking up. Would calculate it myself but I'm just too lazy. (Actually I'm too stupid to even try.)

 

Speaking of Denver, I first seriously learned about satellites at the old Lowry AFB. Lived on the edge of Denver and Aurora for most of a year.

[Moonarino]

4 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

So, I was reading this AM that China is concerned about Starlink capabilities to watch China and a Minister of something wanted to find a way of getting rid of the satallites.

Good for them. Lol -- something else to give them ulcers.

 

I'm pretty sure that "nightmare" (for them) is already covered elsewhere though. And maybe they don't realize that all US private sector don't work for guvmint like theirs do.

[Bill Miller]

Now that we've solved the Starlink issue, can we fix the Celebrity website and accounting dramas?

[canderson]

15 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Now that we've solved the Starlink issue, can we fix the Celebrity website and accounting dramas?

Nah...

Fixing the Celebrity IT department would be an order of magnitude more difficult than creating a full constellation of satellites and ground support.

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, Bill Miller said:

Now that we've solved the Starlink issue, can we fix the Celebrity website and accounting dramas?

Easy fix, quit booking cruises and tell them it’s because of the poor website and accounting dramas. Until it hits them in the wallet, it’s a nonissue to them.

 

[canderson]

Just now, grandgeezer said:

Easy fix, quit booking cruises and tell them it’s because of the poor website and accounting dramas. Until it hits them in the wallet, it’s a nonissue to them.

 

One would think the cost of a few zillion unnecessary support calls would have taken somebody's notice by now.

[CNPGOLF]

I would pay an extra 20% for this service. 

[fstuff1]

On 8/31/2022 at 6:31 PM, Straughn said:

Ok, I am probably going to get beat up with this comment.

 

How in the heck did we all survive before the ability to constantly be in touch 24/7? My late DH and I loved cruising because, for 7 days, his office (he was the CEO) could not reach him. He DID NOT want to work for seven days. That was why he had a deputy. 
 

Today, I read posts about cruisers having concerns that the Wi-Fi connection might not be good enough for their daily FaceTime call with their pet at the sitters or pet spa. What did folks do when they went on vacation and left their pet?

 

My grandchild is having a birthday party. Will I be able to Zoom in to participate? What did you do when there was no Zoom?

 

There are concerns that about being able to be on a Zoom call for work. Will the Wi-Fi  support a video conference call with X number of people?

 

Does anyone just go on vacation to chill out anymore?

 

When i first cruised in like 2014, i had Verizon QNC satellite internet.

9600 baud slow. (1/5th the speed of dial up internet)

There were no free internet promos back then nor did I have status to get some free minutes.

 i could tether to my laptop and google for whatever i needed. mostly about my cruise and ports.

 

Used Opera Lite browser, which was basically a text only browser. (no pics or video which was GREAT on 9600 baud speed internet)

Edited September 2, 2022 by fstuff1

[Moonarino]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:57 AM, fstuff1 said:

 

When i first cruised in like 2014, i had Verizon QNC satellite internet.

9600 baud slow. (1/5th the speed of dial up internet)

There were no free internet promos back then nor did I have status to get some free minutes.

 i could tether to my laptop and google for whatever i needed. mostly about my cruise and ports.

 

Used Opera Lite browser, which was basically a text only browser. (no pics or video which was GREAT on 9600 baud speed internet)

1994. 2400 baud dial-up was the state-of-the-art (for anybody anywhere on the public side of things) and the entire "Internet" was barely more than text. Netscape Navigator 1.0 was released late that year.  Before then I had found a "nice" little Dungeons-type game that was not much more than arrow keys (to navigate in a box) and the space bar. Google was just a pipe dream, if anything at all.

 

We've come a loooooooong long way baby. This also relates to why I can be satisfied with a reliable 20Mb home Internet connection, but I also love seeing progress in communications (to a point), and am still utterly amazed that computers and comm systems can routinely handle billions of data bits per second. And about every 10 years it all gets multiplied by another thousand.

 

@fstuff1, I can relate at least from the sense that I (mostly) just check email to see if anything urgent has come up with family, as we're all getting older and older.

 

But 15-20 years ago, as "the" IT person in the 24/7 business I worked for, before any vacation I always had to repeat several times to several people, "I will NOT be reachable next week!" or whatever. But now (sad to say) you practically can't escape it.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Moonarino

[grandgeezer]

On 9/1/2022 at 1:36 PM, canderson said:

One would think the cost of a few zillion unnecessary support calls would have taken somebody's notice by now.

The decision makers get huge bonuses based on company profitability, why would they probably spend big bucks on something that appears to cost them little to nothing? Before the pandemic they were sailing at about 108% capacity and the problem has been there for a very long time.

[canderson]

19 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

The decision makers get huge bonuses based on company profitability, why would they probably spend big bucks on something that appears to cost them little to nothing? Before the pandemic they were sailing at about 108% capacity and the problem has been there for a very long time.

I was referring to the website and accounting issues.  Large support costs.

[carolina_yankee]

I’m looking forward to Starlink and hope it will be on our 11/12 Apex cruise. I’m not a fan of Musk the person but he is a genius and his products are doing and will do great good, particularly the ancillary products that come from the research, just like NASA gave us many daily improvements from the moon missions and shuttle program. 

 

As for internet on cruises, I loathe being in contact with people in real life (and connecting with people is my job responsibility!). I’m quite capable of surfing the internet and finding what I need to find while ignoring every email, text, and social media post from people I don’t want to be bothered by. So, for the person at another table ignoring their spouse and family to notice and criticize my internet use, please note that I’m likely confirming the weather for my excursion tomorrow.

[HMR74]

9 hours ago, Moonarino said:

1994. 2400 baud dial-up was the state-of-the-art (for anybody anywhere on the public side of things) and the entire "Internet" was barely more than text. Netscape Navigator 1.0 was released late that year.  Before then I had found a "nice" little Dungeons-type game that was not much more than arrow keys (to navigate in a box) and the space bar. Google was just a pipe dream, if anything at all.

 

We've come a loooooooong long way baby. This also relates to why I can be satisfied with a reliable 20Mb home Internet connection, but I also love seeing progress in communications (to a point), and am still utterly amazed that computers and comm systems can routinely handle billions of data bits per second. And about every 10 years it all gets multiplied by another thousand.

 

@fstuff1, I can relate at least from the sense that I (mostly) just check email to see if anything urgent has come up with family, as we're all getting older and older.

 

But 15-20 years ago, as "the" IT person in the 24/7 business I worked for, before any vacation I always had to repeat several times to several people, "I will NOT be reachable next week!" or whatever. But now (sad to say) you practically can't escape it.

I trade stocks and options for a living. Actually I have become  a bit adicted  to it. Last cruise was 16 days and I was away from it the entre time.

 

Its kind of like a gambler being away from the casino.

 

 If internet is slow I definitely cannot trade. and if internet is fast I can. Pretty simple.

everybody is different though and even though I may not trade on vacation (I do not want to be in a position of having an open position that I might not be able to close) just knowing I could is enough to satisfy me. That said, I do keep up with nwws, markets and world events because its enjoyable for me.

Who cares what somebody else does as long as you get what you want, right? .

 

by the way, on trading, more often than not its better not to trade and just watch for the right hi-probablility moment. Kind of like the old Maytag repairman.

 

The Hedge funds are the 800 pound gorillas in the business. They pay extra to  be able to trade in nano seconds --I just want to be able to download my e mails with out falling asleep at the PC. It bad when you can read each e mail coming in before the next one comes in.

 

I use Firefox and Thunderbird, which evolved from Netscape. Used a ti-745 way back when to get corporate bank infor and set up international transfers.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by HMR74

[Moonarino]

13 hours ago, HMR74 said:

. . . That said, I do keep up with nwws, markets and world events because its enjoyable for me.

 

. . . I just want to be able to download my e mails with out falling asleep at the PC.

 

. . . Firefox and Thunderbird, which evolved from Netscape.

 

If you were cruising in early September 2008 I can only imagine what kind of "tension" you were experiencing. (Or even not cruising.) That was the month when the finance giants started falling like dominoes (although it had all started unraveling a year earlier). Anyway, I saw that happening on TV news feeds in the Olympic Bar on Carnival Triumph, wishing I had good Internet so I could get online and read a whole lot more meat (and real facts) than TV news ever gives out. (I didn't have Internet on that cruise because it was my first, and was learning what I could do without or would sorely miss.)

 

Emails -- this is one reason why I stated my first "skepticism" that a main-pipe upgrade might (again) ignore the chance to upgrade a ship's entire network infrastructure. Regardless of how fast the super-broadband uplink might be, when you have to wait 5 minutes just to get logged on to the ship's wifi, and then 5 minutes just for a first email check, you know something was missed. This has been the case with every advertised major upgrade of Internet "speed" I've experienced so far.

 

It's like hitting a major traffic backup on the on-ramp of a superhighway with 70+ speed limit. Superhighway does nothing at all for us if we can't even get on the highway. But again I'm hopeful that they'll be smart enough that we end-users will actually be able to see the difference this time around, regardless of time of day, or port-day versus sea-day.

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Moonarino

[HMR74]

47 minutes ago, Moonarino said:

If you were cruising in early September 2008 I can only imagine what kind of "tension" you were experiencing. (Or even not cruising.) That was the month when the finance giants started falling like dominoes (although it had all started unraveling a year earlier). Anyway, I saw that happening on TV news feeds in the Olympic Bar on Carnival Triumph, wishing I had good Internet so I could get online and read a whole lot more meat (and real facts) than TV news ever gives out. (I didn't have Internet on that cruise because it was my first, and was learning what I could do without or would sorely miss.)

 

Emails -- this is one reason why I stated my first "skepticism" that a main-pipe upgrade might (again) ignore the chance to upgrade a ship's entire network infrastructure. Regardless of how fast the super-broadband uplink might be, when you have to wait 5 minutes just to get logged on to the ship's wifi, and then 5 minutes just for a first email check, you know something was missed. This has been the case with every advertised major upgrade of Internet "speed" I've experienced so far.

 

It's like hitting a major traffic backup on the on-ramp of a superhighway with 70+ speed limit. Superhighway does nothing at all for us if we can't even get on the highway. But again I'm hopeful that they'll be smart enough that we end-users will actually be able to see the difference this time around, regardless of time of day, or port-day versus sea-day.

 

I am old school. I actually understand banks balance sheets and I saw the problem in March 2008 and built hedges ahead of the downfall.

Bear Stearns stock was $62 on a Friday when the CEO said everythiing was OK. Monday the stock opened at $2. Lehman was the same.

 

Being on line and having a good "rolodex" helps . I think we have a similar problem now.

They say everything is fine, til it's not. Been there done that through too many cycles.

Via the internet everybody knows data is at our fingertips. We were just discussing Saturday night about Libraries and in the old days we used to copy pages from Encyclopedia Breitanica or woeld Book, and write our school papers. Now you cut and paste.

 

We have smartphones with apps that tell us the dining room menus for each day.

 

We have airtags so my wife knows which bar I am at aboard ship. Big brother is watching 🙂

.

nothing like a mudslide at Sunset Bar (or Oceanview bar on Solstice class)  on a warm day staring at Ocean.

[Moonarino]

19 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

. . . I think we have a similar problem now. They say everything is fine, til it's not.

 

. . . Big brother is watching 🙂

 

Yeah, let's not go there lol . . . . . although we really should rail nonstop.

 

Looks like BoA (for one) actually wants to go another round.

[HMR74]

27 minutes ago, Moonarino said:

Yeah, let's not go there lol . . . . . although we really should rail nonstop.

 

Looks like BoA (for one) actually wants to go another round.

Yeah, my better half does not like me to discuss it at all so I avoid it but its a part of life. 2008 was almost a complete meltdown.

 

Fast internet will also help us watch  games on TV --thats why IPad Pros were invented.

Combine sea days, one of the outside bars, fast internet and sports on home TV I can watch on Ipad  on board and I am a happy camper.

 

BTW, logging in does not take long unless you are stil logged in on other device.

Edited September 6, 2022 by HMR74

[Moonarino]

52 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

Yeah, my better half does not like me to discuss it at all so I avoid it but its a part of life. 2008 was almost a complete meltdown.

 

Fast internet will also help us watch  games on TV --thats why IPad Pros were invented.

Combine sea days, one of the outside bars, fast internet and sports on home TV I can watch on Ipad  on board and I am a happy camper.

 

BTW, logging in does not take long unless you are stil logged in on other device.

Please view this first part of my response as thoroughly light-hearted (and consider that I'm retirement age myself) but you do know about "phablets", cellphones as big as tablets used to be? My lady's phone has a 6.8" screen with 4k resolution. My chronic carpal-tunnel-like affliction won't allow me to even think about something that big and heavy. My current cell screen is 5.5", with hardware buttons instead of onscreen (so relatively bigger than 5.5" with onscreen buttons). I do also have a 9" tablet with a case that props. But I still much prefer big-screen TV for football and basketball. Sports bar. Indy OTS has a very nice one (Playmakers) just off the Casino.

 

Logging in on my last 3 cruises (Royal and CCL) at peak times would often take minutes, even with always being careful to disconnect from WiFi every time after logging out. Still not optimum per se. This is one thing I hope gets better as part of Starlink (accompanying WiFi/router/switch upgrades etc).

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Moonarino

[mfs2k]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:13 AM, Moonarino said:

Netscape Navigator 1.0 was released late that year.   Google was just a pipe dream, if anything at all.

i still use AltaVista through Compuserve as my preferred search engine.