Azamara Wine Discussion (September 2022)

[Host Jazzbeau]

8 minutes ago, DS said:

ahh, pink catawba....

No, never!  Mateus.  Gallo Hearty Burgundy.  Whole Earth Catalog Welch's Closet DIY...

[blag]

Well done

4 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

As there seems to be a lot of interest I thought I would start a new topic. Wish I would’ve done this when I was on board. For those sailing shoot a photo of the  bottle label and  your comments.  The published wine lists are completely out of date but hopefully in the future will become accurate. I’ll be posting my comments in March on my next cruise. 

Well done! Bravo!

I am finding the dialogue on this topic in the 'Tips' thread singularly unenlightening and rather tedious!

[takemewithyou]

5 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

As there seems to be a lot of interest I thought I would start a new topic. Wish I would’ve done this when I was on board. For those sailing shoot a photo of the  bottle label and  your comments.  The published wine lists are completely out of date but hopefully in the future will become accurate. I’ll be posting my comments in March on my next cruise. 

Sounds like a good idea! 

[federalexpress]

12 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

When I started drinking wine, in the 1960s, cheap wine was really, really bad.  When I was studying in France in 1967 the supermarket wine was from Algeria and the labels only showed the alcohol content, which was in direct proportion to the price – "quality"? hah!!!  And cheap California/NY wine was always terribly flawed.  Now, winemaking technology has improved to the point that the worst wine in the US is merely innocuous.

There is no doubt quality has indeed improved across the board. I used to buy wines for a UK brewery in the early to mid 80's including for a Spanish brand called Corrida. One of the buyers atThe Wine Society (who are my current main suppliers of wine) recalled them recently in a 'nostalgia' themed article: 'the red smelled of drains, the white smelled like sick'. Maybe so, but we generally picked one from around 50 plus samples sent in from producers so imagine how bad the stuff we didn't buy was!!!!!

[jwilcox]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, federalexpress said:

What intrigues me is that the Ultimate package is far from cheap, yet there seems to be little guidance on the quality standard that is provided, even allowing for the individual wines to change/rotate.

 

I'm planning on buying the Ultimate package on the basis of what I've heard reported as being offered. For example I've seen they offer (or offered) a Matanzas Creek Merlot which is a decent quality wine. I've seen that at $60 plus a bottle on their main list. I'm fine with that not being available but if I'm then offered a $30 a bottle Chilean Merlot from a mass producer instead, that doesn't work with me. The Ultimate package is quite a big extra cost, roughly $25 a day I believe. I think you have a right to know what you're getting for this in advance, at least on the guide price point. They must have plenty of wines available at a given price point range, which I assume (but don't know) is $40-60 or so per bottle (restaurant price, obviously their buy cost will be way lower, probably a third of that).

FWIW the Matanzas Creek Merlot was one of the few wines from the list that they actually had. On the other hand the Oregon Pinot Noir was gone and they offered an Italian Pinot that I think cost about $10/bottle, and was pretty awful. I talked with the sommelier. Told him I understood the supply chain issues and that my problem was with their having a sheet showing wines on the ultimate drinks package on a table where they were advertising the package while knowing that many of the wines on that list were not really available. He told me the list came from the corporate office and they couldn't update it even though they know it's out of date. On the plus side they were also out of Couvoisier VSOP cognac but substituted Remy Martin VSOP. So that was a good swap.

[luv2travel90266]

"WIW the Matanzas Creek Merlot was one of the few wines from the list that they actually had. On the other hand the Oregon Pinot Noir was gone and they offered an Italian Pinot that I think cost about $10/bottle, and was pretty awful. I talked with the sommelier. Told him I understood the supply chain issues and that my problem was with their having a sheet showing wines on the ultimate drinks package on a table where they were advertising the package while knowing that many of the wines on that list were not really available. He told me the list came from the corporate office and they couldn't update it even though they know it's out of date. On the plus side they were also out of Couvoisier VSOP cognac but substituted Remy Martin VSOP. So that was a good swap."

 

My point exactly. Matanzas Creek can be found at Total Wines, a big box liquor store for $23/bottle. Robert Parker gave the 2019 a 93 points, a pretty good score for the price. 

[Norn Iron Man]

1 minute ago, luv2travel90266 said:

On the plus side they were also out of Couvoisier VSOP cognac but substituted Remy Martin VSOP. So that was a good swap."

 

That's my sort of swap!!!

[Host Jazzbeau]

Not sure it's any less 'tedious' here in its own thread, but it does clean up the 'newbies' thread very nicely.  Please continue to use this thread for wine discussions, and save the other thread solely for current wine lists from onboard Azamara ships:

 

 

[81Zoomie]

2 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

"WIW the Matanzas Creek Merlot was one of the few wines from the list that they actually had. On the other hand the Oregon Pinot Noir was gone and they offered an Italian Pinot that I think cost about $10/bottle, and was pretty awful. I talked with the sommelier. Told him I understood the supply chain issues and that my problem was with their having a sheet showing wines on the ultimate drinks package on a table where they were advertising the package while knowing that many of the wines on that list were not really available. He told me the list came from the corporate office and they couldn't update it even though they know it's out of date. On the plus side they were also out of Couvoisier VSOP cognac but substituted Remy Martin VSOP. So that was a good swap."

 

My point exactly. Matanzas Creek can be found at Total Wines, a big box liquor store for $23/bottle. Robert Parker gave the 2019 a 93 points, a pretty good score for the price. 

Off the Quest 2 weeks ago.  After sampling the included wines we upgraded to the Ultimate package.  The Matanzas Creek Merlot was the only drinkable red in our opinion.  Seeing as we made port stops in Bordeaux, Spain, and Porto, it was hard to fathom there were no decent local wines available.  After all, we were on a “Wine and Culture” cruise. We ended up buying our own in port and bringing it to dinner.  Had we known how lackluster the “premium” wines were, we would have passed on the upgrade to the Ultimate package.

[IslandThyme]

I'm one who's not finding this discussion tedious at all; it's actually quite interesting to me. The 2024 WC is scheduled to be my first Azamara cruise, and wine is an important element of my life. Two years in enology and viticulture school has left me being a bit of a wine geek, and I'm getting pre-dismayed by what I'm reading about Azamara's offerings. Is it possible to taste the actually-available Ultimate package wines before committing?

[takemewithyou]

2 hours ago, IslandThyme said:

I'm one who's not finding this discussion tedious at all; it's actually quite interesting to me. The 2024 WC is scheduled to be my first Azamara cruise, and wine is an important element of my life. Two years in enology and viticulture school has left me being a bit of a wine geek, and I'm getting pre-dismayed by what I'm reading about Azamara's offerings. Is it possible to taste the actually-available Ultimate package wines before committing?

I would hope so, especially on the WC.

It seems like the wines are constantly changing and they keep bringing out the ultimate list, per corporate as reported, and then many are not even available.

If I were you, I would ask for the Head Sommelier before committing.  See what info he can give you.  Good luck.  A lot can change between now and 2024.  I have a cruise in Dec and will report back.  I have to decide if I want to purchase ultimate package or not.  I was not very impressed with it this past DEC.

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, IslandThyme said:

I'm one who's not finding this discussion tedious at all; it's actually quite interesting to me. The 2024 WC is scheduled to be my first Azamara cruise, and wine is an important element of my life. Two years in enology and viticulture school has left me being a bit of a wine geek, and I'm getting pre-dismayed by what I'm reading about Azamara's offerings. Is it possible to taste the actually-available Ultimate package wines before committing?

Since the Ultimate package is priced by the day, there's no reason to jump on it when you board.  Order a bottle the first night – that will put you in the sommelier's good graces, and you can have a frank discussion about what wines you would really get on the package.  [Sounds like a plan – I think I'll do that on Oct. 6!]

[takemewithyou]

40 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Since the Ultimate package is priced by the day, there's no reason to jump on it when you board.  Order a bottle the first night – that will put you in the sommelier's good graces, and you can have a frank discussion about what wines you would really get on the package.  [Sounds like a plan – I think I'll do that on Oct. 6!]

Please let us know how everything goes with the wine choices onboard!

[Host Jazzbeau]

Another thought:  we're planning to do the 3-night Chef's table package, which includes wine pairings.  I assume that having the Ultimate Package doesn't change what you get at those dinners?  If so, that's 3 days I wouldn't get much value from it.

[takemewithyou]

12 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Another thought:  we're planning to do the 3-night Chef's table package, which includes wine pairings.  I assume that having the Ultimate Package doesn't change what you get at those dinners?  If so, that's 3 days I wouldn't get much value from it.

No, my understanding is that the wines are the same for everyone at the wine dinner, despite what upgraded package you may have ,purchased.

[luv2travel90266]

That is correct. At the chefs table the wine pairings are part of the cost. The sommelier made suggestions of what he felt the best available options were that were available on the Ultimate Package when I was on the Pursuit several weeks ago. I didn't taste through the option as somewhat blindly took his suggestions. As with other crew members they try their best to keep the passengers happy. As mentioned before I didn't feel the Ultimate package was a deal but if you are getting a before or after dinner drink the cost was less than if you were at a hotel or restaurants at home.  I am still hopeful they can get their wine purchases matching their lists.

 

A special kudos to Jazzbeau for separating this out. I owe you a drink when we hopefully meet!! 

[federalexpress]

Yes good call to seperate this out. I realised I was droning on about my favourite topic in the wrong thread for it.

[Lookyboy]

16 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Since the Ultimate package is priced by the day, there's no reason to jump on it when you board.  Order a bottle the first night – that will put you in the sommelier's good graces, and you can have a frank discussion about what wines you would really get on the package.  [Sounds like a plan – I think I'll do that on Oct. 6!]

I am swithering too, as I found the wines on Onward's inaugural voyage to be quite poor - I know...subjective. But - after so many Azamara voyages across all the vessels, we were disappointed.

[Host Jazzbeau]

By way of comparison, here are the wine choices from Ponant last night.  Others will have more knowledge of the price points, but it all looks like South of France low-cost stuff to me:

[luv2travel90266]

The white is $11.99 at Wine.com. Rose is 11 GBP. 2020 le pas de la beaume $7. These are table wines and if found acceptable for your palate no reason to spend more. For those of us that made wine a hobby as we taste more we develop an appreciation for the complexities. Most important is to enjoy the wine your drinking.

 

[Kitekat]

From reading this thread, it does seem that Azamara have improved the everyday wines since our time on Quest in October when we were drinking the dregs that RCL kindly handed out at sale time. 

 

However, we were told that Azamara had bought a vineyard in Slovenia and the first of these new wines (a red, rosé and sparkling) were brought on board and served at some of the functions eg Azamazing Evening which was also on board. We found the wines a little rough and the sparkling too sweet. So what has happened to these wines?

 

We have the premium package on our next AZ cruises next year but, if they are still doing it, we would purchase a wine package which gave us a much better selection. A good sommelier is worth their weight in gold!

[luv2travel90266]

The private label cab is from France and the Merlot from Italy. Both tasted August 2022 on the Pursuit were flawed wines in my opinion.
 

Here in California there is a wine sold called Charles Shaw aka “two buck chuck” ( now $3/bottle). They buy finished wine in bulk that is mostly marginal, blend it with other wine and bottle it under their label. That is the closest comparison to what was being served on the reds.
 

On my most recent trip I quite often will buy a 0.5 litre carafe of local house wine that are very good and inexpensive. If Azamara wants to serve wine of that caliber I might save my $s and not upgrade. It would take a wine buyer who tastes the wine. I suspect that didn’t happen. 

 

Due to the quantity needed continuously Azamara might overwhelm a small winery’s production. One of the best cheap wines found in California is Bogle. that produces high quantiles is Bogle. Found at $7-$9/bottle on sale I would suggest they contact them about a purchase contract or find other like priced and quality wines to offer for their included wines. 

[federalexpress]

20 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

By way of comparison, here are the wine choices from Ponant last night.  Others will have more knowledge of the price points, but it all looks like South of France low-cost stuff to me:

 

It depends on what is being compared. They look superior to Azamara's included wines but somewhat inferior to the Ultimate collection offering, especially the reds.

 

On the latter, it is ironic that having rightly had our wine discussion taken off the Tips for Newbies thread, that a list of latest available Ultimate wines has just been posted on the Anyone Onboard? thread. I'd have lifted it out to here where I imagine it might be even more relevant but that's beyond my pay grade in terms of tech know how. Long and short of it, very many replacements to the website listing, mostly of equivalent quality.

[luv2travel90266]

As said before the Ultimate Wine package is not a deal but fair price for what you get. Just saw the following from the Point's Guy $138/day wine package on Norwegian Cruise Line . Seeing that Azamara wine package definitely looks better 

 

[takemewithyou]

4 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

As said before the Ultimate Wine package is not a deal but fair price for what you get. Just saw the following from the Point's Guy $138/day wine package on Norwegian Cruise Line . Seeing that Azamara wine package definitely looks better 

 

Oh yes!  We saw that, too!  That is outrageous!  Azamara ultimate package a bargain!