Azamara Wine Discussion (September 2022)

[norn iron]

2 hours ago, Norn Iron Man said:

Having been lucky enough to have known a wine importer and had many opportunities to sample wines of all types and prices I can honestly say that wine is like beauty. It is in the eyes (tastebuds) of the beholder. Drink what you enjoy regardless of price. What to some may be greatest vintage ever produced to others it may be complete rotgut.

Spot on.

I remember around 12 years ago Victoria Moore the Daily Telegraphs wine writer reviewed Tesco's own label  1994 Vintage Port, and it retailed for £15 per bottle.

She wrote if the label said Taylors instead of Tesco this would retail at £90 per bottle and be worth laying down for 20 years, the following week Tesco put the price up to £19.

It proved the point that wine snobs are more interested in the label than the contents.

 

By chance the same week I drove through Crossgar and dropped in to Nicholsons (local wine importer for non norn iron folk!) and there on the shelf was a bottle of Taylors 1994 vintage priced at £95 which made me laugh.

 

ps I still have four bottles of the Tesco port left 🍷!!

[DS]

[blag]

6 hours ago, federalexpress said:

The term Unions des Vignerons is a very generic term, there are dozens of these in France, all consisting of producers in a given region. I suspect these wines come from a different union than the one in Pourcain, however the image of the wine labels isn't clear enough to see whether there is a named region or failing that, in very small print, there should be a geographic locator as to where it was bottled which would give us a better clue.

The bottles indicate the complimentary French reds are from Cébazan.

[federalexpress]

18 minutes ago, blag said:

The bottles indicate the complimentary French reds are from Cébazan.

The plot thickens! Doesn't look like it is the Pourcain co-op then. Seems to be in the Herault sub region and you can get pretty much any grape from there, it's a vast production centre for inexpensive varietals. I know there is a co-operative there in Cebazan because it produces a wine I buy from The Wine Society, a Sauvignon/Viognier blend called which is pleasant and inexpensive. I've not had any of their reds but I don't doubt they produce a very wide range of wines, so maybe they are bottling stuff for AZ. There's actually some seriously good wine made in Herault, Mas de Daumas Gassac for one, but much of the generic wine is bottled under Vin de Pays D'Oc (which is the larger region that includes Herault) as these AS offerings seem to be

[jwilcox]

On 9/3/2022 at 4:45 AM, asnaleah said:

Thank you for this information. We have been considering bringing wine on board. Did you find the wines available on the Ultimate package pretty good? Many choices?

Just got off the Quest a week ago. My suggestion would be not to bother having someone send you a copy of the wines available on the Ultimate package. As soon as we boarded and sat down on the rear deck for a champagne toast we discovered that the one listed on the Ultimate package list had been substituted with another. Portends of the future! The next four times we ordered a wine off the list we received a substitute, or at least an offer of a substitute. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

46 minutes ago, jwilcox said:

Just got off the Quest a week ago. My suggestion would be not to bother having someone send you a copy of the wines available on the Ultimate package. As soon as we boarded and sat down on the rear deck for a champagne toast we discovered that the one listed on the Ultimate package list had been substituted with another. Portends of the future! The next four times we ordered a wine off the list we received a substitute, or at least an offer of a substitute. 

Wine lists on most cruise lines are in a state of flux, as they continue to work off their pre-Covid stocks and have supply-chain issues on replenishment.  Sadly almost all cruise lines' business plans require purchasing alcohol at wholesale prices, so they do not empower the ship staff to buy wine/liquor in the port.  This is where the boutique cruise lines excel – and maybe as Azamara stabilizes under its independent ownership it will join that happy few, but not yet...

[federalexpress]

17 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Wine lists on most cruise lines are in a state of flux, as they continue to work off their pre-Covid stocks and have supply-chain issues on replenishment.  Sadly almost all cruise lines' business plans require purchasing alcohol at wholesale prices, so they do not empower the ship staff to buy wine/liquor in the port.  This is where the boutique cruise lines excel – and maybe as Azamara stabilizes under its independent ownership it will join that happy few, but not yet...

What intrigues me is that the Ultimate package is far from cheap, yet there seems to be little guidance on the quality standard that is provided, even allowing for the individual wines to change/rotate.

 

I'm planning on buying the Ultimate package on the basis of what I've heard reported as being offered. For example I've seen they offer (or offered) a Matanzas Creek Merlot which is a decent quality wine. I've seen that at $60 plus a bottle on their main list. I'm fine with that not being available but if I'm then offered a $30 a bottle Chilean Merlot from a mass producer instead, that doesn't work with me. The Ultimate package is quite a big extra cost, roughly $25 a day I believe. I think you have a right to know what you're getting for this in advance, at least on the guide price point. They must have plenty of wines available at a given price point range, which I assume (but don't know) is $40-60 or so per bottle (restaurant price, obviously their buy cost will be way lower, probably a third of that).

[Host Jazzbeau]

21 minutes ago, federalexpress said:

What intrigues me is that the Ultimate package is far from cheap, yet there seems to be little guidance on the quality standard that is provided, even allowing for the individual wines to change/rotate.

 

I'm planning on buying the Ultimate package on the basis of what I've heard reported as being offered. For example I've seen they offer (or offered) a Matanzas Creek Merlot which is a decent quality wine. I've seen that at $60 plus a bottle on their main list. I'm fine with that not being available but if I'm then offered a $30 a bottle Chilean Merlot from a mass producer instead, that doesn't work with me. The Ultimate package is quite a big extra cost, roughly $25 a day I believe. I think you have a right to know what you're getting for this in advance, at least on the guide price point. They must have plenty of wines available at a given price point range, which I assume (but don't know) is $40-60 or so per bottle (restaurant price, obviously their buy cost will be way lower, probably a third of that).

I'm glad they won't let you buy the Ultimate package until you board.  I plan to look at the wine list (and try to verify actual availability) before I sign up for it.  Otherwise it may be cheaper to buy wine by the bottle (or bring some onboard and pay corkage), and the occasional Hendricks G&T.

[luv2travel90266]

I just completed the August cruise on the Pursuit. Tried the included wines Azamara branded wines and found them not acceptable. I thought they were similar to a $10/bottle retail wine. I upgraded to the ultimate package at that dinner  

 

The wines I were served on  Ultimate Package were $20-$30/bottle retail which means in a restaurant $50-$90. Being able to have a scotch, cognac, or mixed drink made the Ultimate package a decent value. As my wife doesn't drink  Azamara not requiring both parties in the cabin to upgrade was a generous plus. Had that not been the case I would have bought bottles off the menu and had the crew store the remainder of the bottle for the next evening's dinner.

 

 

[federalexpress]

23 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I'm glad they won't let you buy the Ultimate package until you board.  I plan to look at the wine list (and try to verify actual availability) before I sign up for it.  Otherwise it may be cheaper to buy wine by the bottle (or bring some onboard and pay corkage), and the occasional Hendricks G&T.

Ah, I see. I had planned to get it as part of the Indulgence package. My TA said that I can buy that ahead of the cruise and also use my OBC towards it. But she may be proved wrong. I've just emailed her to ask her to include the extra money required to buy the Indulgence package in with my final cruise payment. Maybe she'll find out she can't do that.

 

If so, your way makes sense. I'm in S America and I have a winery visit on the second day so if the wines look rough, I could always stock up from there, it should be decent stuff. That said, I'd have thought they could offer a bit more info on what you are likely to get, guide prices etc so you have some idea of the quality level. I know some people don't plan much but this is one area I like to.

[federalexpress]

29 minutes ago, luv2travel90266 said:

I just completed the August cruise on the Pursuit. Tried the included wines Azamara branded wines and found them not acceptable. I thought they were similar to a $10/bottle retail wine. I upgraded to the ultimate package at that dinner  

 

The wines I were served on  Ultimate Package were $20-$30/bottle retail which means in a restaurant $50-$90. Being able to have a scotch, cognac, or mixed drink made the Ultimate package a decent value. As my wife doesn't drink  Azamara not requiring both parties in the cabin to upgrade was a generous plus. Had that not been the case I would have bought bottles off the menu and had the crew store the remainder of the bottle for the next evening's dinner.

 

 

 Interesting insight. That sounds encouraging on the Ultimate package, that is a fair budget per bottle, if anything maybe slightly more generous than I'd have expected/hoped for. Can you recall any of the reds you were offered?

[Grandma Cruising]

11 minutes ago, federalexpress said:

Ah, I see. I had planned to get it as part of the Indulgence package. My TA said that I can buy that ahead of the cruise and also use my OBC towards it. But she may be proved wrong. I've just emailed her to ask her to include the extra money required to buy the Indulgence package in with my final cruise payment. Maybe she'll find out she can't do that.

 

 

You can buy any of the Essentials packages before the cruise and they can be very good value if you want/need all the elements. If you add the individual prices up you can save a lot.

[federalexpress]

1 hour ago, Grandma Cruising said:

You can buy any of the Essentials packages before the cruise and they can be very good value if you want/need all the elements. If you add the individual prices up you can save a lot.

Yes, I think the unresolved issue is whether I can use my OBC for that. People have said you can't, my TA said I can, and will find out imminently who is right. I have $1000 of OBC and if I had the Indulgence package, I can't see me getting through $1000 onboard, if it can't be used for the Indulgence package in advance. I'm mostly organising my own tours. Anyway, soon find out, otherwise I'll just buy it onboard with a mix of cash and the $1000 OBC.

[luv2travel90266]

I only had $400 OBC. I used it for a dining package and internet with no problem. I heard that some of the credits were limited to excursions but that was not my situation. It should be identified if there are limitations on how to spend credits.

[luv2travel90266]

4 hours ago, federalexpress said:

 Interesting insight. That sounds encouraging on the Ultimate package, that is a fair budget per bottle, if anything maybe slightly more generous than I'd have expected/hoped for. Can you recall any of the reds you were offered?

I wish now that I would have photo'd the bottles. Didn't bother keeping track. Was primarily drinking cab sauv and viognier and both were good. As a comment for the chefs table the wines served there were exceptional. That was my first trip on Azamara. My next one , a back to back I will definitely buy the ultimate package again. It wasn't a "deal" but a reasonable value so I was satisfied. Definitely nice that I didn't give a second thought to ordering a before or after dinner drink, Perrier, or premium beer at lunch. Virtually none of the wines shown on the sample were available as you heard before from others. Hopefully that might be better on my next cruise. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by luv2travel90266

[federalexpress]

19 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

I wish now that I would have photo'd the bottles. Didn't bother keeping track. Was primarily drinking cab sauv and viognier and both were good. As a comment for the chefs table the wines served there were exceptional. That was my first trip on Azamara. My next one , a back to back I will definitely buy the ultimate package again. It wasn't a "deal" but a reasonable value so I was satisfied. Definitely nice that I didn't give a second thought to ordering a before or after dinner drink, Perrier, or premium beer at lunch. Virtually none of the wines shown on the sample were available as you heard before from others. Hopefully that might be better on my next cruise. 

 

Thanks for that feedback. You are clearly discerning enough for me to take on board your overall opinion, even if you don't recall the names of the wines. Interesting you should have so readily found the 'free' wines to be below par, at least according to the quality you were seeking, and found the package gave you what you were seeking. Agree that the package does take away having second thoughts about ordering something. I don't drink spirits at all but that is more out of habit and my greater lover for wine than not liking the taste. I might find myself needing the warmth of a decent single malt, like a Balvenie, when I'm sailing across to Cape Horn from the Falklands......

[luv2travel90266]

5 hours ago, federalexpress said:

 

Thanks for that feedback. You are clearly discerning enough for me to take on board your overall opinion, even if you don't recall the names of the wines. Interesting you should have so readily found the 'free' wines to be below par, at least according to the quality you were seeking, and found the package gave you what you were seeking. Agree that the package does take away having second thoughts about ordering something. I don't drink spirits at all but that is more out of habit and my greater lover for wine than not liking the taste. I might find myself needing the warmth of a decent single malt, like a Balvenie, when I'm sailing across to Cape Horn from the Falklands......

If they were wines that I wanted to add to my cellar I would have taken notes. They were quaffable but not remarkable which you would expect. I have a cellar with over 1000 bottles and this was Monday's night blind tasting with a group I am in. Hope to share a glass or two with you on a future cruise. 

sept 19 2022 blind tasting.pdf

Edited September 22, 2022 by luv2travel90266

[federalexpress]

8 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

If they were wines that I wanted to add to my cellar I would have taken notes. They were quaffable but not remarkable which you would expect. I have a cellar with over 1000 bottles and this was Monday's night blind tasting with a group I am in. Hope to share a glass or two with you on a future cruise. 

sept 19 2022 blind tasting.pdf 811.95 kB · 11 downloads

Nice tasting! It's certainly true I wouldn't be expecting this level as part of a wine package, that would swiftly put any cruise line out of business.

 

How did you think the Italian 'Bordeaux' compared to the real thing? I guess it's hard to be absolute on comparative quality when few, if any of these wines are close to their peak, so one never knows for sure how they will evolve.

[luv2travel90266]

I have some 20 year old collectable super Tuscans in my cellar but the French left bank Bordeaux's still are the preference. Doing tastings double blind are the only fair way to rate wines.  Quite often a $30 wine will beat a $100 wine in our tasting group. We also decant the  wines that need more age to reach their prime but still are tasting them early upon release. The purpose of a cellar is to age the wine and allow them to reach their potential. 

 

Back to the subject the taster (cruiser) needs to decide for themselves what they like and don't like and if the included package is acceptable for them.  When I started drinking wines they were "jug wines". My palate changed as I learned more and appreciated better made wines. I still have wines I buy in the $20-$30/bottle  range too which offer good value.  

[mchell810]

14 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

If they were wines that I wanted to add to my cellar I would have taken notes. They were quaffable but not remarkable which you would expect. I have a cellar with over 1000 bottles and this was Monday's night blind tasting with a group I am in. Hope to share a glass or two with you on a future cruise. 

sept 19 2022 blind tasting.pdf 811.95 kB · 24 downloads

 

Wow, I am jealous!   I wish I had room for 1000 bottles .... one can dream.

[andrcan]

41 minutes ago, luv2travel90266 said:

Back to the subject the taster (cruiser) needs to decide for themselves what they like and don't like and if the included package is acceptable for them.  When I started drinking wines they were "jug wines". My palate changed as I learned more and appreciated better made wines. I still have wines I buy in the $20-$30/bottle  range too which offer good value.  

Completely agree. Also, one would expect the wines offered on board (at least included wines) to be selected to accompany meals rather than be enjoyed on their own. We found included Azamara label Merlot and Cab to be well suitable just for that - they pair ok with most of the meats. Don’t expect them to pass double blind test against Margaux or Pauillac though:) 

[luv2travel90266]

My very thought. If you like them well enough no reason to upgrade. My river cruise line of choice is uniworld and I have found the wines served as included fine. Perhaps they included wines on Azamara will improve in the future.

[federalexpress]

7 hours ago, luv2travel90266 said:

I have some 20 year old collectable super Tuscans in my cellar but the French left bank Bordeaux's still are the preference. Doing tastings double blind are the only fair way to rate wines.  Quite often a $30 wine will beat a $100 wine in our tasting group. We also decant the  wines that need more age to reach their prime but still are tasting them early upon release. The purpose of a cellar is to age the wine and allow them to reach their potential. 

 

Back to the subject the taster (cruiser) needs to decide for themselves what they like and don't like and if the included package is acceptable for them.  When I started drinking wines they were "jug wines". My palate changed as I learned more and appreciated better made wines. I still have wines I buy in the $20-$30/bottle  range too which offer good value.  

 

I think I had the opposite journey. I started in the wine trade so drinking cru classe was, if not everyday, at least normal. Out of my price league nowadays. Today I have mainly what you might call 'jug wines' mostly from The Wine Society (UK wholesaler, not available in the US but very nice wines at fair prices). For treats, I have a bit of stuff at $20-$30, a very few more expensive. If Azamara gave me a buying budget of up to $30 for their Ultimate wines, I'd drink very well from what I buy from The Wine Society's offering at that price. Maybe better than they can do, in fact I'm pretty sure of that. About the only cru classe I now have stored in my very much smaller cellar than yours, is Batailley '10.

 

Agree about double blind albeit when I bought wine 35 years ago for a living, we kept it in price brackets/wine types, but then we were commercially tasting, 30-60 wines at a time so you needed a centering.

 

It's interesting how wines change over time in terms of quality and winemaking. When I bought wine, Clerc Milon was a minor cru classe and of minimal interest. Now I think it is one of the best of its class.Mind you, they have all improved, even the traditional laggards.

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, federalexpress said:

It's interesting how wines change over time in terms of quality and winemaking. When I bought wine, Clerc Milon was a minor cru classe and of minimal interest. Now I think it is one of the best of its class.Mind you, they have all improved, even the traditional laggards.

When I started drinking wine, in the 1960s, cheap wine was really, really bad.  When I was studying in France in 1967 the supermarket wine was from Algeria and the labels only showed the alcohol content, which was in direct proportion to the price – "quality"? hah!!!  And cheap California/NY wine was always terribly flawed.  Now, winemaking technology has improved to the point that the worst wine in the US is merely innocuous.

[DS]

12 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

When I started drinking wine, in the 1960s, cheap wine was really, really bad.  When I was studying in France in 1967 the supermarket wine was from Algeria and the labels only showed the alcohol content, which was in direct proportion to the price – "quality"? hah!!!  And cheap California/NY wine was always terribly flawed.  Now, winemaking technology has improved to the point that the worst wine in the US is merely innocuous.

ahh, pink catawba....