Help Me Understand This

[klfrodo]

So, in the near future, I will be booking a BA award flight from SEA to LHR using my Alaska Airlines mileage program.

I've just been doing some basic research on flight availability from SEA, but also looking at connections and what type of metal is running on the long haul portion of the flight.

 

Anyway, I go to look for today and I see that the SEA to LHR direct run is not currently offering Business or FC. Out of curiosity, I change my departure airport to LAS.

That route offers me a mixed seating offer of LAS to SEA in coach, but Business from SEA to LHR. WHAT?

 

Just trying to understand the business model between no Business if direct but can connect and book Business.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by klfrodo

[Twickenham]

It has to do with something called "married segments"; they are offering the business segment as part of the LAS-SEA-LHR itinerary, but not as a standalone ticket. I have seen it before, but I couldn't expound on the business reasons why.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Twickenham

[Zach1213]

Yep, I second the "I have experienced it, but have no idea what the business model is behind it" other than them thinking they can make more money off of a J class LAS-SEA-LHR ticket than they can off of a J class SEA-LHR flight, and aren't willing to give that possibility up yet. 

 

The answer is almost always "money" with airlines 🙂

[klfrodo]

In my past couple of trips to Europe using miles from my Alaska account, I have always had to connect to get my BA business or FC seats.

Is it really so simple as Alaska wants their piece of the mileage accounting pie? I didn't realize that there was that much revenue to be made when, for insurance purposes and miles accrued purposes, this is a non-revenue seat with $0 value.

[FlyerTalker]

This is "married segments" at work.

 

The simple advice (though not simple to do) is to forget about distances, segments and the like.  One needs to think in terms of end-to-end markets and in terms of the market value of particular non-stop routings vs connections.

 

A couple of articles that might shed some light:

 

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/airline-married-segment/

 

https://princeoftravel.com/blog/airline-secrets-what-are-married-segments/

 

https://www.travel-industry-blog.com/travel-technology/married-segment/

 

https://liveandletsfly.com/married-segments-award-tickets/

 

And from Amadeus, one of the giant GDS providers:

 

https://servicehub.amadeus.com/c/portal/view-solution/897686/understanding-married-segments

 

 

[klfrodo]

Thanks to everyone. I know have a GED in "Married Segments". 🙌

[texasstar]

Delta is doing the same thing.  Delta Skymiles are useless for overseas flights.  The amount of miles they want for a ticket is absurd, and they don't even have any options except for very long flights.

[FlyerTalker]

34 minutes ago, texasstar said:

Delta is doing the same thing.  Delta Skymiles are useless for overseas flights.  The amount of miles they want for a ticket is absurd, and they don't even have any options except for very long flights.

 

SkyPesos are one of the biggest users of dynamic award pricing.  Soon after DL dropped their award charts, they quickly put almost all awards tied to the retail pricing for the flight.  After that, they dropped partner award charts and many of them are now dynamically priced, with the rest being at a higher tier than before.

 

That being said, they not completely "useless", especially compared to some other programs.  The key is to understand that the days of easily finding reasonably priced awards is gone.  You can find awards, but you have to be very versatile.  They may not be available on the routes you want on the days you want.  You may find them, but the pricing is often unrealistic.  Reasonable redemptions exist but are the exception rather than the rule. Sorry to say, but that's the facts of life.

 

IMO, there is no reason to be accumulating SkyPesos other than by actual flying on Delta.  If you insist on having a DL credit card for the ancillary benefits, don't put your spend on that card - unless you need the MQD waiver for elite status.

 

And here is the head of SkyMiles himself talking about the value of the miles to the consumer:

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/head-of-delta-skymiles-explains-why-they-charge-so-much-more-for-awards-than-other-airlines/

 

 

[Globaliser]

14 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

Yep, I second the "I have experienced it, but have no idea what the business model is behind it" other than them thinking they can make more money off of a J class LAS-SEA-LHR ticket than they can off of a J class SEA-LHR flight, and aren't willing to give that possibility up yet.

 

I wonder whether it's the other way around. Here are some extraordinarily broad generalisations to illustrate this:

 

A non-stop flight from B to A is generally more valuable and priced higher than an itinerary that connects at C. The same goes for a non-stop flight from C to A, compared to an itinerary that connects at B.

 

So the airline may expect to get $1,000 for a cash ticket for a non-stop flight from B to A, or from C to A. It may also expect to get only $800 for a cash ticket for a B-C-A or a C-B-A itinerary.

 

In general, although some people will choose a connecting itinerary to get a lower fare, they won't play silly games to do so, especially as the silly games can cost extra money. In practice, this means that some people at B will be happy to fly B-C-A to get a lower fare compared to flying B-A non-stop. But very few people at B will fly from B to C and then fly C-B-A to get the lower fare - not least because they have to pay an additional fare to fly B-C. So for those buying cash tickets, the choice in this scenario is $1,000 non-stop or $800 with a connection - something that we all routinely see.

 

When someone redeems an award flight, in substance the airline collects money for it. The mechanism may be different for different airlines and different award schemes, but in substance something like that will happen even if the airline remains the operator of its award scheme and is simply cancelling mileage liability on its books through the award ticket. Therefore, every award flight ticket has a value to the airline.

 

Suppose that the value to the airline of an award ticket from B to A (by any route) is $900. It's then not hard to see why the airline might make an award seat available to B-C-A while not making one available for C-A - even if it has to pay $50 to the airline operating B-C for the economy seat used to make that connection.

 

In real life, of course, this is much more complicated, not least because value calculations also change as the time before departure reduces. The present value of a 20% chance of selling a $7,000 cash ticket over the next year may be regarded as exceeding the $1,000 that could be taken for a cash ticket now. And so on.