Jeans now allowed in all dining venues

[Flamin_June]

20 hours ago, skybluewaters said:

Slippery slope.  I wonder what would happen if someone strolled into the Restaurant wearing this...

That is one heck of a moth problem

[labonnevie]

Now that jeans are allowed, it presents a whole other set of dressing for dinner problems. 
Which of my treasure trove of T shirts best match which of my jeans…

[labonnevie]

6 hours ago, Emdee said:
After a lifetime of dressing in suits am happy to relax in perfectly acceptable elegant casual clothes on holidays. 

I too dressed mostly in suits throughout my work life. 
That is now 18 years ago. We live in Southern California and most of the restaurants we go to are casual. While other customers may wear jeans, T shirts and hats on backwards, I still don’t wear jeans to them. Dockers or other casual slacks with a nice short sleeve shirt just look better, imho. And I feel better as well. 
When we cruise, I frankly look forward to the slightly more formal dress for dinner, especially “formal optional “ nights. I really enjoy trying to compliment my wife, who always dresses well and looks great, by looking my best as well. It’s just part of making a luxury cruise really special for us. 

[fdnycruiser]

Living in Florida, I don’t like wearing jeans, but shoes and polos . However, I don’t expect the dress code to accommodate myself, nor do I want them to . 
  We’ve got several Seabourn cruises under our belts as recent as November. However, our recent Silversea cruise this month, convinced us to cancel our April Seabourn. Since Covid we’ve sailed Seabourn twice, Silversea twice and Regent once . As much as we enjoyed Seabourn, it’s not the same Seabourn that we knew and loved . IMHO.

[Emdee]

4 hours ago, labonnevie said:

I too dressed mostly in suits throughout my work life. 
That is now 18 years ago. We live in Southern California and most of the restaurants we go to are casual. While other customers may wear jeans, T shirts and hats on backwards, I still don’t wear jeans to them. Dockers or other casual slacks with a nice short sleeve shirt just look better, imho. And I feel better as well. 
When we cruise, I frankly look forward to the slightly more formal dress for dinner, especially “formal optional “ nights. I really enjoy trying to compliment my wife, who always dresses well and looks great, by looking my best as well. It’s just part of making a luxury cruise really special for us. 

Both of us do not wear jeans…in fact my husband has never owned a pair of jeans. 
Formal optional are a good alternative for those who want to dress up. Elegant dressing is the key for evening wear. And jeans can be elegant. A well styled blazer on a pair of elegant jeans looks far nicer than some of the mothballed and ill fitting tuxedos that I have seen on some luxury lines. 
I applaud that Seabourn wants to move with the times. 

[sfvoyage]

1 hour ago, Emdee said:

I applaud that Seabourn wants to move with the times.

 

Personally I'm not sure if I'll be wearing jeans at dinner time but that's beside the point.  This is long overdue - otherwise, Seabourn won't be able to attract the newer demographics and clientele that they need to survive as a business.

Edited December 18, 2022 by sfvoyage

[markham]

Need a new demographic to sustain Seabourn? I would like to see the market data which shows that jeans-wearing is a panacea, and that "dressing down" is the answer. Or even AN answer.

 

My view is that people who know the product- be in Silversea, Regent or Seabourn, or one of the newcomers such as Ritz Carlton - are looking for a product that meets their needs. That might mean 

unabashed luxury, picnic baskets on deck, everyone wearing red hats or discussing philosophy. The common thread is common interests and respect for the investment they are making for the cruise's duration.

 

So does jean wearing for those who choose them make a difference to any of this? 

 

My view is that jeans are probably OK with me if they are new-ish, clean, well-enough tailored, and are matched with smart casual clothes. What do not work for me are full of holes/tears. washed out and baggy jeans. And/or topped by cheap shirts untucked or shirs without collars, and track shoes or flip flops.

 

Would a pictorial by the MDR in the evening showing 5 fashion models wearing combos of these choices educate fellow guests what works and what does not for pushing the boat out? What is the goal anyway?Is there even room on a Seabourn board for such discussion? Seabourn long ago dropped signage outside its Observation Bars saying "no shorts or jeans etc after 18:00" and I have even seen in the evening shlubs (my word) wearing sweaty lycra/gym stuff and bathing suits with towels. I kid you not.

 

If this scene does not suit you, and you are outta the mainstream consensus as you perceive it, then the best you can do at this stage is pen a note to Seabourn Management and consider your other vacaction choices.

 

Personally, I have done so with a few cruises on the Silversea Muse, Moon and Dawn. These are very competitive choices relative to the Encore and Ovation in almost every aspect such as more generous space per passenger by far, dining choices and quality, the long pool and 2 lane circular topside track. I perceive that most guests are better dressed as per Silversea tradition. But not all get it, and they hopefully do not represent the future for me. Silversea may be a year or 2 "behind" Seabourn with this trend.

 

Happy and healthy sailing! 

[dalliowner]

whats next shorts and swimming gear ??

[phillipahain]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:48 AM, saminina said:

Slippery slope?  It's just another step. 

It seems that a stubborn minority who refuse to honour basic good manners and a dress code are forcing the issue on several lines ....sad sad sad 

[phillipahain]

6 hours ago, Emdee said:

Both of us do not wear jeans…in fact my husband has never owned a pair of jeans. 
Formal optional are a good alternative for those who want to dress up. Elegant dressing is the key for evening wear. And jeans can be elegant. A well styled blazer on a pair of elegant jeans looks far nicer than some of the mothballed and ill fitting tuxedos that I have seen on some luxury lines. 
I applaud that Seabourn wants to move with the times. 

Speak for yourself ....its a slippery slope firced by those who have never been taught any manners 

[Mr Luxury]

Just because the dress code has dropped to lower than a Dachshunds belly, it doesn't mean that you have to dress to below your own standards.

You can never be overdressed on a ship but you can be woefully underdressed after 18.00 Hrs anywhere at sea.

From my observations,Silversea and the newer fleet does fit the Seabourn clientele and many are now moving in that direction. 

[sfvoyage]

I know quite a few youngish, affluent and well-dressed professionals who don't mind playing dress-up for the opera or charity balls, etc. but who couldn't be bothered with dress codes while on vacation.  They associate luxury "formal night" cruise lines with their parents and grandparents and spend their vacation days and dollars elsewhere. 

 

(I saw plenty of them a couple of weeks ago at my Maldives resort, whose daily rates, by the way, are much higher than a typical Seabourn cruise, and I was surprised by how many young people - newlyweds or not, and young parents - those resorts attract.)

 

Seabourn would love to be able to attract more of this demographics, and hence the gradually relaxing dress code.  (I am not talking specifically about jeans - I do agree that jeans can be elegant or not; it depends on the jeans and the wearer!)

[Flamin_June]

Nobody is saying jeans will be compulsry. Seabourn passengers will dress how they want to dress and at the price point, most people will be elegantly dressed and more or less fashion conscious, and any of those wearing jeans will probably still manage to look expensively dressed. I expect one might see more 'dressing down' or jeans on quickie 7 day cruises and on the two big ships, which seem to me to be marketed towards attracting the aspirational mass-market demographic who want to 'step up'. 

Of course there have always been boors ( the uncouth, obnoxious and belligerent) on Seabourn, as elsewhere: in over a decade of sailing SB I can recall at least one or two on most voyages.

If the sight of jeans at dinner offends you, look away - after all, they will ( one hopes) be tucked under a table most of the time.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Flamin_June

[markham]

Who knows where any of this retreat from dress standards is heading?

 

Mr Luxury makes a subtle and smart point, IMO. You need not ever considering dress below your own standards. So that’s my plan without doubt every day for the 78 day Quest Grand Voyage of 6 Jan.

 

Then there is the matter of “other” standards. I like the vibe generally on Silversea’s 3 larger ships inasmuch as they have long maintained a dress code. But the entertainment vibe is less than interesting vs that on a Seabourn ship. They need to pick up the pace with a far more talented program and group of entertainer singers and dancers. The instrumental threesome in the Panorama Bar and sometimes by the pool is background music, not the “real thing”, and the singers/dancers with their productions is high school quality. I might even welcome the Seabourn Howdy Doody Block Party if the CD shows some verve through a bigger budget!

 

Also, and while some Dawn passengers on our recent few weeks on Dawn were loud talkers at the bars, I never saw/heard the hollering of some unfortunate evening at the Observation Bar of Seabourn. You would maybe expect that to be limited to the Sky Bar outside… Maybe the “new” Seabourn with its future clientele should make that venue more like a sports bar and leave the Obs Bar as it has been in the good ole past?

Oh, and I like Flamin_june’s suggestion of Seabourn focusing their new demo 

marketing on Ovation and Encore, ships that are better designed for short cruises than long ones given their lack of outdoor space per passenger and a too small MDR. After all, if you/they really want “luxury” they can sign up for the Retreat, and get it there. Who else would use it and pay for it?

 

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Edited December 18, 2022 by markham

[Mr Luxury]

7 minutes ago, markham said:

Who knows where any of this retreat from dress standards is heading?

 

Mr Luxury makes a subtle and smart point, IMO. You need not ever considering dress below your own standards. So that’s my plan without doubt every day for the 78 day Quest Grand Voyage of 6 Jan.

 

The  there is the matter of “other” standards. I like the vibe generally on Silversea’s 3 larger ships inasmuch as they have long maintained a dress code. But the entertainment vibe is less than interesting vs that on a Seabourn ship. They need to pick up the pace with a far more talented program and group of entertainer singers and dancers. The instrumental threesome in the Panorama Bar and sometimes by the pool is background music, not the “real thing”, and the singers/dancers with their productions is high school quality. I might even welcome the Seabourn Howdy Doody Block Party if the CD shows some verve through a bigger budget!

 

Also, and while some Dawn passengers on our recent few weeks on Dawn were loud talkers at the bars, I never saw/heard the hollering of some unfortunate evening at the Observation Bar of Seabourn. You would maybe expect that to be limited to the Sky Bar outside… Maybe the “new” Seabourn with its future clientele should make that venue more like a sports bar and leave the Obs Bar as it has been in the good ole past?

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Markham,I couldn't agree more about the entertainment vibe on SS v Seabs

The only  thing that I thought was better on my Moon trip was the pianist and singer duo in the supper club restaurant.

I didn't care for the food offerings but sitting with a drink after dinner elsewhere was highly enjoyable.

Our own TA Markham has booked himself on two Silversea cruises for next year.

That tells us something surely.😉

I am landbased this Christmas but away and have booked Encore for next Christmas.

[LMB01]

We are currently on the Sojourn in the Caribbean and casual dress abounds!

 

On formal night we always eat at E&O.  The gentleman at the table next to us had shorts and flip flops on.  We have seen jeans in the TK and actually shorts and sneakers the other night.

 

There are a few people dressing up in the evening but they are in the minority.

[Emdee]

4 hours ago, dalliowner said:

whats next shorts and swimming gear ??

Definitely…but poolside!

[Mr Luxury]

Josh Leibowitz is hoping to get as many people on a Seabourn ship as possible.

He is running a business and wants to make a success of it.

Who knows where this will lead in the near future but if it means getting a dog and bringing it on board to get an extra booking at TK Grill then that's what we'll do.

[Emdee]

3 hours ago, phillipahain said:

Speak for yourself ....its a slippery slope firced by those who have never been taught any manners 

What does manners have to do with wearing jeans? Firced? 
Yes I do speak for myself. 

[JPH814]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:26 PM, florisdekort said:

Seabourn just announced that jeans are now allowed in all dining venues on Elegant Casual nights. 
Also, no more Formal nights on Expedition ships. 
 

Due to “guest feedback”.
 

Floris 

Can you share the "announcement" from Seabourn please

[florisdekort]

7 minutes ago, JPH814 said:

Can you share the "announcement" from Seabourn please

 

Dear Seabourn Guest,

Based on feedback from our guests and evolving trends, Seabourn has updated the dress code policy on our ships to provide additional flexibility. The updated dress policy will begin in 2023 and will be applicable on all voyages departing on or after January 4, 2023.

Evening Attire:
After 6pm, the evening dress code is elegant casual. In all dining venues, the nightly dress standard for men is slacks with collared dress shirt or sweater and optional jacket. Slacks, skirt, blouse, pant suit or dresses are appropriate for ladies. Elegant jeans are now welcome in all dining venues.

Formal Attire:
On formal evenings, for those that wish to celebrate in style with us in The Restaurant, we invite men to wear a tuxedo, suit or slacks with jacket, and ladies to wear an evening gown or other formal apparel. For those who wish to dine in our other venues, we invite you to dress in your favorite elegant casual styles.

The itinerary in your preliminary document booklet will inform you of the number of formal evenings to expect during your voyage. As a rule of thumb, formal evenings are scheduled as follows: 

• Voyages up to 13 days - one formal evening 

• Voyages of 14 to 20 days - two formal evenings 

• Voyages of 21 or more days - three formal evenings 

There are no formal evenings on Seabourn Venture or Seabourn Pursuit.

Please review our full dress code policy and our packing guide for our recommendations on what to bring and wear.

[Flamin_June]

So: no jeans in the Restaurant on Formal Nights (phew!).

 

What is less clear, or at least, what puzzles me is the following (my italics): In all dining venues, the nightly dress standard for men is slacks with collared dress shirt or sweater and optional jacket.

 

That seems to imply that, instead of wearing a collared dress shirt, one can just wear a sweater. Perhaps it should say "... collared dress shirt and optional sweater or jacket."

 

[lincslady]

My DH's favourite  'sweater' was a black lightweight wool poloneck I know, it is a very outdated fashion) but actually looked good on him, very comfortable and not too casual looking.  

[Emdee]

57 minutes ago, lincslady said:

My DH's favourite  'sweater' was a black lightweight wool poloneck I know, it is a very outdated fashion) but actually looked good on him, very comfortable and not too casual looking.  

How perfect is that for a relaxed meal on any cruise line…..with slacks or elegant jeans as per preference.

[Mr Luxury]

The key words for me are.

"For those who wish to dine in our other venues, (Not the MDR on formal evenings)

We invite you to dress in your favourite elegant casual styles."

I think this gives you cart blanche to wear whatever you want.

Beverly Hillbillies anyone?

Edited December 18, 2022 by Mr Luxury