Carnival Corporation Axing Three Ships

[Jack McGowan]

21 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

It's interesting to read that P&O Australia will be adding water slides to the two Grand class ships they are receiving from Princess. I still think that with Arvia doing the Catibbean in winter and the Med in summer that P&O have missed a trick with her build.

 

Yeah I think they half tried to introduce something with the Skywalk thing on Arvia but I’m surprised they haven’t tried slides yet. 
 

I could see Arvia taking over the med fly cruises in a few years 

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, Jack McGowan said:

I could see Arvia taking over the med fly cruises in a few years 

But by then, will there be any ports prepared to accept ships of that size ?

[terrierjohn]

16 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But by then, will there be any ports prepared to accept ships of that size ?

I assume so Wowzz,  since so many cruise ports have gone out of their way to increase berthing size and capacity over recent years  that I doubt that the trades that benefit the most from cruise ship tourists will just roll over and accept these restrictions forever. Western Europe is still mostly a  democracy, and even local politics changes its stance over time.

[wowzz]

12 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I assume so Wowzz,  since so many cruise ports have gone out of their way to increase berthing size and capacity over recent years  that I doubt that the trades that benefit the most from cruise ship tourists will just roll over and accept these restrictions forever. Western Europe is still mostly a  democracy, and even local politics changes its stance over time.

I agree, in that the likes of Barcelona, Athens etc will happily accept ships of all sizes. But how many will follow Palma and Venice - Malaga, Cartagena, Marseilles etc spring to mind.

[tring]

57 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I agree, in that the likes of Barcelona, Athens etc will happily accept ships of all sizes. But how many will follow Palma and Venice - Malaga, Cartagena, Marseilles etc spring to mind.

 

Snowhill had said earlier in this thread that Barcelona and Marseilles were talking about restrictions.  Maybe not as tight as some, but restrictions none the less.

[Snow Hill]

8 hours ago, tring said:

 

Snowhill had said earlier in this thread that Barcelona and Marseilles were talking about restrictions.  Maybe not as tight as some, but restrictions none the less.

Apparently Naples are looking at emissions from shipping following on from the cleaner air during pandemic.

 

Santorini and other Greek Islands are reviewing numbers, Amsterdam & Barcelona already levy a tourist tax on cruise ship passengers, Scotland are considering one. 

 

The emissions restrictions apply to all ships not just cruise ships. 
 

The numbers of passengers issue is likely to be dealt with in a number of ways, from reduction in number of ships in port at any one time, to a ban on ships with 5000 or more passengers. 
 

This is something that cruise companies are going to have to address over the coming years when deciding on sizes of new ships or to sail with lower passenger numbers where restrictions apply. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Snow Hill

[Fionboard]

Naples worried about cleanlyness?! 

[Flocat]

On 2/12/2023 at 7:34 AM, paulatsea said:

Wow - I hope so 🤞 which YouTube channel ?

 

[Flocat]

On 2/12/2023 at 7:34 AM, paulatsea said:

Wow - I hope so 🤞 which YouTube channel ?

As I say not sure how accurate this is, I always take social media with a pinch of salt!

[Britboys]

3 hours ago, Flocat said:

As I say not sure how accurate this is, I always take social media with a pinch of salt!

As we all know, virtually any ship is for sale at any time dependent on a number of factors. The narrator didn't really give any indication of where they got that information from. I sincerely hope they are right and that P&O will give the old girl a nice facelift for her 25th anniversary.

[Flocat]

2 hours ago, Britboys said:

As we all know, virtually any ship is for sale at any time dependent on a number of factors. The narrator didn't really give any indication of where they got that information from. I sincerely hope they are right and that P&O will give the old girl a nice facelift for her 25th anniversary.

I completely agree, can't find this anywhere else to verify it but I'm hoping it's true! 

[molecrochip]

Id be surprised if P&O spend a large amount of money on a 25 year old ship.

[AchileLauro]

Having sailed on many of the P&O fleet and several times on some ships I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to cruise on any of the P&O ships again other than on Aurora and possibly on Arcadia. Our plans to try Arcadia were scuppered when P&O cancelled the cruise without warning.

 

Quite simply the other ships simply do not float my boat (No pun intended).

 

When P&O do decide to dispose of Aurora which I don't think will be too far in the future, unless they replace the ship with something very very similar my long association with P&O will be ended (first cruised with them in 1986) .

 

P.S. I have a daughter named Canberra, another named Oriana, and a granddaughter named Aurora.

Edited February 16, 2023 by AchileLauro
to add P.S.

[Selbourne]

24 minutes ago, AchileLauro said:

P.S. I have a daughter named Canberra, another named Oriana, and a granddaughter named Aurora.

Wow. Now that’s what I call brand loyalty! 
 

Sadly, I fear that it’s a vain hope that P&O will replace Aurora or Arcadia with another small ship. I just can’t see it happening. P&O have completely shifted their market position and I can’t see them going back. They are adopting the philosophy of Jack Cohen, the founder of Tesco - “pile it high and sell it cheap”. These economies of scale favour the bigger ships. 

[AchileLauro]

They are adopting the philosophy of Jack Cohen, the founder of Tesco - “pile it high and sell it cheap”

 

They certainly proved that on Iona last July, all the pools were absolutely crammed mostly with children. If you replaced the water with olive oil you could have sold them as sardines.

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, AchileLauro said:

They are adopting the philosophy of Jack Cohen, the founder of Tesco - “pile it high and sell it cheap”

 

They certainly proved that on Iona last July, all the pools were absolutely crammed mostly with children. If you replaced the water with olive oil you could have sold them as sardines.

But surely you were aware that July would be peak school holiday season?

Just like all the other ships, including Aurora, when it was classed as family friendly, outside of school holidays they all have a totally different vibe. Ventura's round trips to the Caribbean have a laid back relaxing feel, and I am sure Iona's inaugural 2025 Caribbean cruise will be very similar.

[AchileLauro]

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

But surely you were aware that July would be peak school holiday season?

Just like all the other ships, including Aurora, when it was classed as family friendly, outside of school holidays they all have a totally different vibe. Ventura's round trips to the Caribbean have a laid back relaxing feel, and I am sure Iona's inaugural 2025 Caribbean cruise will be very similar.

We were aware but unfortunately we had no choice of dates. Also for various reasons it would not have been our choice of ship so it was a matter of taking the only option available in order to accommodate all members of the party. We even looked at other cruise companies. 

 

We travelled several times on Aurora with children during the school holidays and while the pools may have been busy at times it was never anything near that on Iona.

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by AchileLauro

[Yorkypete]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Wow. Now that’s what I call brand loyalty! 
 

Sadly, I fear that it’s a vain hope that P&O will replace Aurora or Arcadia with another small ship. I just can’t see it happening. P&O have completely shifted their market position and I can’t see them going back. They are adopting the philosophy of Jack Cohen, the founder of Tesco - “pile it high and sell it cheap”. These economies of scale favour the bigger ships. 

If cruise lines continue building bigger ships then the cruise industry is dying, at least the part where people want ports rather than sea days. The restrictions coming in mean that many popular ports will be no- go areas  very soon. Ships the size of Iona will be very restricted due to size, engine types and the number of passengers.  I noticed Megabear said in a recent post that  a certain cruise would be OK on Britannia as there was only one ship in port as well, one with over 5000 passengers. If I read the restrictions properly  it is for 8000 passengers only. Britannia plus this other ship total 8600 so one would not be allowed. The Med countries are only allowing ships into the sea with 1% sulphor emissions from 2025!. I believe that rules out most vessels.

 I am returning to some cruising as I will not want to after the next year or so as there will not be as many ports to visit.

[terrierjohn]

51 minutes ago, AchileLauro said:

We were aware but unfortunately we had no choice of dates. Also for various reasons it would not have been our choice of ship so it was a matter of taking the only option available in order to accommodate all members of the party. We even looked at other cruise companies. 

 

We travelled several times on Aurora with children during the school holidays and while the pools may have been busy at times it was never anything near that on Iona.

 

I do think that P&O's design of the Sky Domes on their 2 excel class ships has significantly reduced the pool areas. The dome on Iona does not lend itself to a vibrant open air pool, like Britannia or many of the RCI ships, and the other 2 pools are too small for the number of passengers. 

[showingdiva]

Without going off topic too much, can I ask what the policy is about school age children being off in term time these days? 

I'm fully aware that the school holidays here in Scotland are different to those in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but was quite surprised to see more children than I anticipated on a (non P&O) ship last year.

[Snow Hill]

19 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

If cruise lines continue building bigger ships then the cruise industry is dying, at least the part where people want ports rather than sea days. The restrictions coming in mean that many popular ports will be no- go areas  very soon. Ships the size of Iona will be very restricted due to size, engine types and the number of passengers.  I noticed Megabear said in a recent post that  a certain cruise would be OK on Britannia as there was only one ship in port as well, one with over 5000 passengers. If I read the restrictions properly  it is for 8000 passengers only. Britannia plus this other ship total 8600 so one would not be allowed. The Med countries are only allowing ships into the sea with 1% sulphor emissions from 2025!. I believe that rules out most vessels.

 I am returning to some cruising as I will not want to after the next year or so as there will not be as many ports to visit.

0.1% sulphur Emissions from May 2025 down from current 0.5% level. I think diesel used in cars has 0.05% Sulphur.

[Snow Hill]

14 minutes ago, showingdiva said:

Without going off topic too much, can I ask what the policy is about school age children being off in term time these days? 

I'm fully aware that the school holidays here in Scotland are different to those in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but was quite surprised to see more children than I anticipated on a (non P&O) ship last year.

In England you are liable to fined per child if you take children out of school in term time if the head teacher doesn’t give permission, that is only usually given in exceptional circumstances, holidays are not deemed exceptional. This only applies to state schools, independent schools have their own rules.

 

Many parents still do and pay the fine as still works out cheaper than going in the busier periods. 
 

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence

Edited February 16, 2023 by Snow Hill

[wowzz]

47 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

If cruise lines continue building bigger ships then the cruise industry is dying, at least the part where people want ports rather than sea days

Not sure I agree. 

Lots of cruise lines are building new, relatively small ships, and this sector is booming. Plus they offer the port experience you are looking for.

But, small ships cost more to run per head than the 5000 pax megaships. So, if you want a small ship experience, you have plenty of choice, but you will have to pay for it. That does not seem unreasonable to me. 

 

[Cruisemeister2002]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:12 AM, yorkshirephil said:

There lies the problem with big ships, not only can they not get into some smaller ports they are now being refused into some of the bigger ports due to size and passenger restrictions. It is fine for some holidays where the ship is the destination but not so good for people where the itinerary is important. 

It all harks back to the time of the White Star Line and the Titanic and Britannic. The rush to produce bigger and bigger ships. I understand from a  profit point of view that you have far more balcony cabins and enlarged over all capacity and possibly the ratio of staff to passengers isn't the 50% you get on smaller ships and due to the restrictions and costs of heavy fuel oil it all makes these larger more efficient ships better for the environment in one respect, but sadly not in another where ports like Barcelona and Cozumel take many large ships which means tens of thousands possibly arriving at a port all at the same time. I prefer ships the size of Aurora, Oceana etc. But fear the days of sailing on that size of ship beyond many as the cost of cruising on a smaller ship is restrictive.

[Yorkypete]

50 minutes ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

It all harks back to the time of the White Star Line and the Titanic and Britannic. The rush to produce bigger and bigger ships. I understand from a  profit point of view that you have far more balcony cabins and enlarged over all capacity and possibly the ratio of staff to passengers isn't the 50% you get on smaller ships and due to the restrictions and costs of heavy fuel oil it all makes these larger more efficient ships better for the environment in one respect, but sadly not in another where ports like Barcelona and Cozumel take many large ships which means tens of thousands possibly arriving at a port all at the same time. I prefer ships the size of Aurora, Oceana etc. But fear the days of sailing on that size of ship beyond many as the cost of cruising on a smaller ship is restrictive.

The problem is that very soon the larger vessels will be mainly for cruising as not too many ports will accept them.Many are restricting entry  for various reasons including emissions (the whole of the Med and Norway) and the number of passengers. Those like us who like a cruise because it visits ports will be disappointed.  Iona is scheduled for Norway during the summer but already is limited to the ports it can  go to so if you love Alesund etc you will be ok.