The End of Lincoln Center

[Mary229]

15 minutes ago, Kamfish642 said:

Scary part is that the younger generation is probably in 50s, which has different tastes in entertainment.  HAL needs to evolve business model to look at upcoming generations to be successful in the future due to intense competition.

It is clear from this thread that there is a divide and a different reaction to change.  If this is simply a change in programming I think many who are complaining might react differently, it is the unknown or the fear that this will not be replaced with something.

 

 I have never liked the branded, canned products of recent years.  I think people fail to realize/recall that these products are recent. One can have classical music on a cruise ship but does it have to be this particular product?  I think often people are swayed by the branding.  

[ChinaShrek]

41 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

And therein lies the issue with HAL.  Many passengers are early to bed and early to rise.  Consider that on Seabourn (part of the HAL group) the MDR does not even open for dinner until 7pm  (7-9) and there is usually one main show (I think its usually at 9:30).  I mentioned that when we have cruised on Celebrity, they will sometimes have an adult comedy show which is generally at 11:30 and it is often SRO.

 

I imagine if HAL opened the MDR for dinner at 3:30 and had a show at 5 it would suit at least half the passengers who would be happy to head back to their cabins by 6:30.  In fact, just tell the Floridians that there is an "Early Bird" dinner at 3:30 and lobster tails are 50% off and they would fill the MDR 🙂

 

Hank

I also think that if I am going to on a port intensive cruise with daily excursions from 8-4 or 9-5, I really do need to get a good night's sleep in. On these cruises, I will be up at 6am to shower and hunt for acceptable coffee.  The previous night's entertainment is not a consideration. I think HALs most important feature is as a ferry service. Just feed me and let me have adventures in port.

[OlsSalt]

28 minutes ago, Kamfish642 said:

Scary part is that the younger generation is probably in 50s, which has different tastes in entertainment.  HAL needs to evolve business model to look at upcoming generations to be successful in the future due to intense competition.

 

We had different tastes in travel, music and entertainment when we were in our 50's too.

 

Nothing wrong with still being a cruise ship for the 70 plus crowds, who keep getting new members every single day - lifestyle habits and travel choices do change, as many of us wind our way down our own mortal coils. We personally now want more safety, security, less noise, less risk and yes, even less adventure.  Savoring the journey - enrichment - slowing down. And early to bed, early to rise.

[crystalspin]

Currently on the K'dam and serendipitously just happened to share an elevator ride with Byron the Entertainment Manager. I mentioned that the word was LCS was going away... He was a bit guarded but allowed changes might be coming... What he strongly suggested was that - H/T to Mary - no particular kind of music was "going away", but that the branding was very costly! He mentioned all three: Lincoln Center, Rolling Stone, & BBKings, has having expensive royalties. 

 

I was left reassured and even hopeful that what is coming music-wise might even be better! 

Edited January 8, 2023 by crystalspin

[sattva]

Like many, I'm sorry to see Lincoln Center go.  Last time on Oosterdam, it was SRO every night after first dinner sitting.  Most of what they played was really light "classical," but at least they varied their programs.  B.B. King, on the other hand, did same songs over and over.  

 

Music was a draw to HAL for us.  With music choices reduced, I expect DW and I will be drifting more towards Celebrity and Oceania in the future.

[OlsSalt]

5 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

I also think that if I am going to on a port intensive cruise with daily excursions from 8-4 or 9-5, I really do need to get a good night's sleep in. On these cruises, I will be up at 6am to shower and hunt for acceptable coffee.  The previous night's entertainment is not a consideration. I think HALs most important feature is as a ferry service. Just feed me and let me have adventures in port.

That describes how we felt about our recent Konnigsdsam - it is a floating resort hotel; not am especially unique cruise to travel experience.  

 

Will HAL spread itself too thin trying to be both?  HAL in the past did travel cruising extremely well. And for a floating hotel, the Pinnacle class can perhaps suit those tastes too. But I could never see taking a Pinnacle class ship, for longer than one to two weeks.

 

However, I also saw plenty of people who were very happy with many of the new offerings found now only on Pinnacle ships - never seen the casino so crowded and the Music Walk offerings had large evening draws - did not try the comedy offerings

 

The World Stage evening shows were good and we felt they did use the big screens to their advantage, but any :enrichment talks in this venue were too canned and generic interest to offer even a remote interest into the areas traveled.  

 

I would have liked to learn more about the country of Mexico itself, not just as a Mexican Riviera travel destination - but its geography, its different states, its politics, its economy, its unique diversity of historical cultures ....instead we got the history of surfing in Hawaii and Marconi and the wireless. A wasted opportunity- and the Mexican government itself should offer enrichment speakers to showcase this always surprising country.   Mexico beyond the "borderlands", would be valuable for all North Americans to learn more about. 

[ChinaShrek]

8 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

That describes how we felt about our recent Konnigsdsam - it is a floating resort hotel; not am especially unique cruise to travel experience.  

 

 

As long as their prices stay low, I'm okay with that.

[HALcruiser2001]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:46 AM, lazey1 said:

I for one am delighted to find out that HAL will be eliminating Lincoln Center Stage or limiting it to a rotating headliner act. Classical music is not enjoyed by everyone and it seems like for years that Lincoln Center Stage has been devoted to funerary music. Perhaps once a cruise I could manage to sit through one of their shows. PS, I am 81 years old, definitely not one of the younger generations.

How many shows have you seen?  From what I have read (have not been on a lincoln center ship), it is not all classical.

[Shep_Proudfoot]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

For someone who has heard great jazz in person I can assuredly say it is far better to listen to the streaming version of great jazz than listen to BB King lounge on HAL 

I believe you will find yourself in a small minority in that opinion. The live musicians I saw on HAL were sufficiently talented to transcend any video concert that I can watch at home. No, their talent level may not compare to the virtuosos out there, but live music is inherently a far more memorable, and unique, experience than recorded music.

[HALcruiser2001]

On 1/7/2023 at 4:45 PM, LMaxwell said:

Yes. Frequently throughout the day time. They have played opera music at sailaway even. 

Please, all you opera lovers, head on over to MSC.  😉

[HALcruiser2001]

21 hours ago, ldtr said:

if they kept the Lincoln Center musicians and moved them to theater for a performance each day that would be fine. However, they are making them into a visiting entertainer type schedule rotating between ships with maybe 1 or 2 shows per cruise not so much. Would hate to be the Cello player having to bring their Cello flying from ship to ship. Do not think they will last long.

IMO, Classical Trio, Quintet etc should be in the dining room and pinnacle grill.  Nightly please.

[HALcruiser2001]

20 hours ago, REOVA said:

But after they see Scott's 2 routines, they will be back. 😉

 

Interesting that they didn't have him on World Stage. On Rotterdam in November his show was in World Stage and less than half full so maybe that's why he's not in the lounge now. Yet another comedian did 2 shows each on 2 nights in lounge which was packed. 

 

Must be quantum superposition in the works..."Schrödinger's entertainment"

Is there a bar or service in world stage?

[Hlitner]

35 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

We had different tastes in travel, music and entertainment when we were in our 50's too.

 

Nothing wrong with still being a cruise ship for the 70 plus crowds, who keep getting new members every single day - lifestyle habits and travel choices do change, as many of us wind our way down our own mortal coils. We personally now want more safety, security, less noise, less risk and yes, even less adventure.  Savoring the journey - enrichment - slowing down. And early to bed, early to rise.

We are in our mid 70s but are not prepared to act like the nursing home crowd...at least not yet.  I do agree that less noise is a good thing, but DW and I still enjoy decent entertainment and are able to stay up until late and still get up in the morning :).   As to "less adventure" not sure we are doing para sailing, jumping out of planes, etc.  But we are still avid independent travelers and look forward to running around Japan (on our own) for a couple of weeks before joining the Westy.  

 

Hank

[REOVA]

6 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

Is there a bar or service in world stage?

Yes there are servers that come around. However on Rotterdam, HAL forgot to put drink holders at the seats. 

[Mary229]

29 minutes ago, Shep_Proudfoot said:

I believe you will find yourself in a small minority in that opinion. The live musicians I saw on HAL were sufficiently talented to transcend any video concert that I can watch at home. No, their talent level may not compare to the virtuosos out there, but live music is inherently a far more memorable, and unique, experience than recorded music.

To be clear I like live music.  I have enjoyed excellent performances in the theater by headliner artists.  I don’t think Lincoln Center delivers, it is clearly a canned, branded overly commercialized product meant to appeal to a mass market.  I see no reason for HAL to waste money on licensing fees on top of compensation for that quality.  

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, Mary229 said:

The audio fidelity is amazing with good ear pods.  I performed in college and I am perhaps a bit more critical .  I would prefer to listen to virtuosos. I have not found that the performances on the music walk that satisfying.  I have enjoyed soloists or special performers in theater 

 

While I can't claim proficiency with any orchestral instrument, I did perform for several years as part of the chorus that accompanies the Atlanta Symphony when choral music is performed. I have some ability to analyze a performance.

 

That said, I still enjoy music performed live. The LC performances I have seen may not have been "virtuoso" but they were not (to quote my ex MIL) chopped liver either.

 

[AncientWanderer]

1 hour ago, crystalspin said:

Currently on the K'dam and serendipitously just happened to share an elevator ride with Byron the Entertainment Manager. I mentioned that the word was LCS was going away... He was a bit guarded but allowed changes might be coming... What he strongly suggested was that - H/T to Mary - no particular kind of music was "going away", but that the branding was very costly! He mentioned all three: Lincoln Center, Rolling Stone, & BBKings, has having expensive royalties. 

 

I was left reassured and even hopeful that what is coming music-wise might even be better! 

 

This actually makes a lot of sense.  Thank you for sharing.

[3rdGenCunarder]

59 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

IMO, Classical Trio, Quintet etc should be in the dining room and pinnacle grill.  Nightly please.

 

That would be a waste. Nobody would listen. Unless you were right nearby, you wouldn't know they were there because of the din of conversations. Unless it's in a venue where you go specifically to hear music, like a theater setting, people talk over the music. We used to go to Sunday brunch in NYC in small restaurants that had a jazz or blues combo. We loved the music and relaxed atmosphere, but I noticed about 10 years ago, it was getting harder and harder to hear the music because people talked all the time. And they talked LOUDER when the musicians started. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, crystalspin said:

Currently on the K'dam and serendipitously just happened to share an elevator ride with Byron the Entertainment Manager. I mentioned that the word was LCS was going away... He was a bit guarded but allowed changes might be coming... What he strongly suggested was that - H/T to Mary - no particular kind of music was "going away", but that the branding was very costly! He mentioned all three: Lincoln Center, Rolling Stone, & BBKings, has having expensive royalties. 

 

I was left reassured and even hopeful that what is coming music-wise might even be better! 

 

HAL tried to link up with too many names. I always felt they were saying "We're not good enough, but we have all these other people you like, so maybe that will make you like us." 

 

I don't care if the classical musicians have the name "Lincoln Center," although I have to say they've been the best classical group I've heard on a ship.  So please, HAL, if you're replacing LC, hire good musicians. And a quartet, not a duo. 

 

And while I'm wishing, how about a little jazz???

[darstamp]

I've only been on two HAL cruises and am scheduled for an 18 day to Hawaii in April.  The Lincoln Centre Stage was the thing I liked best about HAL.  They were always packed with people of various ages so I don't believe it has anything to do with age. If cruise lines are depending on young people for survival I don't think they will make it.  However , I don't think cruising is a holiday option for a lot of people under 50.  Many are struggling to find work, pay mortgages or raise families.  Buying a house, at least in Canada, is out of range for many.  Holidays consist of camping and local road trips.  I don't have a problem with HAL shaking things up.  I went to one of their production shows, mostly dancing, but it was a snooze fest for me.  Why get rid of the best thing they have going - beats me.  

[Guest ldtr]

6 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I responded to someone who called streaming music as “commoditized”. I assumed by that comment that poster was not aware of the high quality performances available.   I am trying to be very delicate here and have tried to diplomatically state my opinion of the HAL music walk performance but perhaps I should just say it - they are not satisfactory.  And the worst offender is BB King 

Comparing live performances to even high quality recordings is a bit like saying you do not need to see the ocean as long as you have access to a high quality video. No real comparison. 

[Mary229]

30 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Comparing live performances to even high quality recordings is a bit like saying you do not need to see the ocean as long as you have access to a high quality video. No real comparison. 

We all have preferences and experience. I have not been impressed at all with Lincoln Center.  I am not going to argue anymore about it except to say - good riddance LCS

[HALcruiser2001]

8 hours ago, Mary229 said:

The audio fidelity is amazing with good ear pods.  I performed in college and I am perhaps a bit more critical .  I would prefer to listen to virtuosos. I have not found that the performances on the music walk that satisfying.  I have enjoyed soloists or special performers in theater 

 

Tastes differ.   I have about the best noise isolating "ear pods" made and they stink compared to my loud speakers.

 

Live music is dependent on acoustics and amplification method.

 

LCPA residents and students should be virtuoso and that is how HAL bills the venue.   Some may definitely be new to performing though.

[HALcruiser2001]

Here is my opinion.  I had thought about the branding that HAL had purchased with Rolling Stone, BB King and LCS as soon as I started looking at cruises again (been 22ish years and music was not a priority then, but we lucked out with great shows). 

I thought the branding idea was good, but to brand them as bands from other venues did send up a red flag. My concern was HAL could not get the best of the best from these venues.   Second was they wasted money on branding and locked into "the brand" that they were pitching. 

So far the RS bands seem meh, BBK seem pretty good, but online recordings stink.  The LCS seems to be good, but again, good recordings of HAL performances are sparse to say the least.  Frankly I cannot wait to experience all three.  The only person that can judge if you like music is you.  It does seem from all the reviews that music quality is inconsistent and HAL really doesn't have control of it as it is basically "outsourced".

Cruise ships are kind of doomed as far as entertainment goes.  At least they are a training platform for new musicians.  At best they can get some "headliners" for short cruises.  They are a step up from amusement parks though.

Consider that a good band should be able to make about $2,000-$5,000 per night and expect all inclusive cruise in a decent cabin for them and any family members or guests, I think that cruise lines have a tough time getting consistently good performers.   Then they likely have to pay airfare and other stuff too as no musician I know of is dedicated to cruise life and no band on earth will stay interesting for 135 days (unless their names are Billy Joe Armstrong, Billy Idol or David Grohl,  Elton John, etc.  LOL).  For a really good, professional band, HAL could easily pay 30k for a 7 night cruise plus all the added expenses.  In the end, let's say HAL pays 50k/venue for 7 days and 3 venues.  That's $75/ppx for 2000 person ship.  Considering the cost of my cruise in Feb is now at about $10k, I'd gladly chip in $100 to guarantee I have good music, maybe even $250, depending on how many good venues they have and how often performers play.  My first cruise with HAL had an Elton impersonator, I would gladly pay $200 to hear for a couple of hours.

I will try to focus on music on my Feb trip and give a good review of it, but they are going to have to be at least good to get my attention, otherwise I won't bother as I am not going to let bad music ruin my experience.  😉

[HALcruiser2001]

2 hours ago, darstamp said:

I've only been on two HAL cruises and am scheduled for an 18 day to Hawaii in April.  The Lincoln Centre Stage was the thing I liked best about HAL.  They were always packed with people of various ages so I don't believe it has anything to do with age. If cruise lines are depending on young people for survival I don't think they will make it.  However , I don't think cruising is a holiday option for a lot of people under 50.  Many are struggling to find work, pay mortgages or raise families.  Buying a house, at least in Canada, is out of range for many.  Holidays consist of camping and local road trips.  I don't have a problem with HAL shaking things up.  I went to one of their production shows, mostly dancing, but it was a snooze fest for me.  Why get rid of the best thing they have going - beats me.  

Good to hear.  Thank you!  I hope to like it as well, but Rhapsody in Blue for the billionth time might bore me.  LOL.

Many people on here saying holiday cruises were packed with kids and family.

Holiday cruises have more to do with how you wish to spend your time.  It is not the best choice as it is the priciest time to cruise and cruising is not everyone's "gig".

I think people under 50 are doing better than you may realize.  Houses are not out of reach where I am and over most of the USA.  I lived in California for about 10 years and know what it means to have home ownership out of reach.  LA, SF, NYC, etc.... areas are the worst places and their prices have ended up effecting ours since everyone now wishes to move to my neighborhood.  Over COVID, our area had many unbuilt lots.  All gone.  Virtually all new neighbors are CA, WA, OR, NY.  There are still plenty of great places to live in the USA vs the most expensive and remote jobs are even more plentiful now.

I thought our neighborhood would not build out in my lifetime and as a result my home would take forever to increase in value, but COVID changed everything in an area that is remote, rural, forest, wildlife and within an hour of a major airport and technology area.  I have a lot of equity now, but it is still obtainable by almost anyone with initiative.