New houskeeping and tipping

[audcc77]

On 2/18/2023 at 4:27 AM, sparks1093 said:

The crew work as a team and when one member of the team excels, the entire team excels.

Using this line of thinking, the other people at the same level as me at work get the same pay as I do, regardless of my skill set and  quality — and we  know that’s not true.  
 

I think what some people are beginning to think is that the nominal tips were just that, a small additional amount added to your total cost.  But now, paying hundreds of dollars for a family of 4, well — they want to know where that money is going. 
 

I can say from past experience that cleaning a room used by 4 people isn’t that much more difficult than cleaning up after 2 people.  
 

[resetjet]

1 hour ago, audcc77 said:

Source?

 

When our son bused tables at an upscale restaurant, he was paid about the same each week because the employer would adjust the pay based on tips, actually making up the difference or spreading around the overage.  
 

So basically it didn’t matter how well or fast he did the job, he got paid the same.  
 

I am interested where your information comes from which states that the cruise line doesn’t make up for shortfalls. 

 

I have done alot of research this week.  There are two ways that crewmembers are paid.  Guarantee rate=. They make the same regardless of anything.  The cruise line keeps the tips.   So in this case,  the cruise line would have to CONTRIBUTE any shortfalls in the tips and keep any overages.  
 

i think carnival does the salary plus tips method.  They get a small salary plus all their tips.  Problem is 75% of those tips go to people you never see.  
 

at this point i am just considering the auto tips just part of my cruise fare or a “resort fee” this way in my mind,  i am ok with it.  

[audcc77]

17 minutes ago, resetjet said:

Problem is 75% of those tips go to people you never see.

Problem is … I used to not care where any of these tips go.  Whatever. 🤷‍♀️
 

Now that I’m getting less services for more money, I do. 

[Theosprey247]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:18 PM, BasicSailor said:

Gonna pass on that. I've read too many Tipping threads over the years, and they usually wind up getting shut down 😎. Maybe someone will jot all the information down to a paragraph in the end😉

Basically this:

Person A is voicing their opinion (without any evidence to back it up) in a futile attempt to convince Person B. 
 

While

 

Person B is voicing their opinion (without any evidence to back it up) in a futile attempt to convince Person A. 
 

That sums it up (and 90% of the threads here on CC). 

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, audcc77 said:

Source?

 

When our son bused tables at an upscale restaurant, he was paid about the same each week because the employer would adjust the pay based on tips, actually making up the difference or spreading around the overage.  
 

So basically it didn’t matter how well or fast he did the job, he got paid the same.  
 

I am interested where your information comes from which states that the cruise line doesn’t make up for shortfalls. 

 

That the cruise line gets all their revenue from paying customers?  You don't think the Beards are funding salaries?

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, audcc77 said:

Using this line of thinking, the other people at the same level as me at work get the same pay as I do, regardless of my skill set and  quality — and we  know that’s not true.  
 

I think what some people are beginning to think is that the nominal tips were just that, a small additional amount added to your total cost.  But now, paying hundreds of dollars for a family of 4, well — they want to know where that money is going. 
 

I can say from past experience that cleaning a room used by 4 people isn’t that much more difficult than cleaning up after 2 people.  
 

Different business models are run differently and each has it's own advantages and disadvantages for whatever business is using it. Tip pools increase teamwork among tipped staff, it levels out the highs and lows for all (such as being stuck at a slow station one night). It isn't the only way tips are handled and may not be as effective in one business as it is in another. As with any attempt to control human behavior it can be hit or miss.

[sparks1093]

4 hours ago, resetjet said:

I have done alot of research this week.  There are two ways that crewmembers are paid.  Guarantee rate=. They make the same regardless of anything.  The cruise line keeps the tips.   So in this case,  the cruise line would have to CONTRIBUTE any shortfalls in the tips and keep any overages.  
 

i think carnival does the salary plus tips method.  They get a small salary plus all their tips.  Problem is 75% of those tips go to people you never see.  
 

at this point i am just considering the auto tips just part of my cruise fare or a “resort fee” this way in my mind,  i am ok with it.  

That is a healthy way of looking at it. As I've said everyone who receives a share earns it and even if I'm not seeing them they are contributing to my cruise enjoyment. I also believe that Carnival is using a salary plus tip, with the understanding that the salary is very small (in the $50 to $100 per month range, depending on source read, but it might be a little higher). There is a guaranteed amount the employees are supposed to get and if tips don't get them to that amount then the company is expected to make up the shortfall (very similar to tipped employees ashore working for a lower minimum wage, with the employer expected to bring them to full minimum wage if the tips they receive don't get them there). 

[sparks1093]

4 hours ago, Theosprey247 said:

Basically this:

Person A is voicing their opinion (without any evidence to back it up) in a futile attempt to convince Person B. 
 

While

 

Person B is voicing their opinion (without any evidence to back it up) in a futile attempt to convince Person A. 
 

That sums it up (and 90% of the threads here on CC). 

And then there is Person C, who isn't trying to convince either person A or person B since their minds are made up, but is trying to make sure that persons D through Z who are reading the thread have as much information as they need to make up their minds.

[Joebucks]

The more people play detective for something that doesn't really matter, the more I realize why companies don't publish all of their back-end policies. There is no benefit in letting keyboard warriors decide if they agree with the policy. Clearly, there are workers that this pay system is benefitting.

[Elaine5715]

20 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

The more people play detective for something that doesn't really matter, the more I realize why companies don't publish all of their back-end policies. There is no benefit in letting keyboard warriors decide if they agree with the policy. Clearly, there are workers that this pay system is benefitting.

Especially on the lowest paid Carnival employees while blithely paying cruise fares far more than auto grats.  Arnold's published salary was 13 million and change but let's drill down on room stewards 

[rs45thompson]

9 hours ago, audcc77 said:

Problem is … I used to not care where any of these tips go.  Whatever. 🤷‍♀️
 

Now that I’m getting less services for more money, I do. 

Yes, didn't really think about it.  I mean I paid the auto gratuities and paid a little extra if they did a fantastic job.  Now with the increase in gratuity, the once a day cleaning, the 2 hour plus dinners I want to know where my money is going. I think for the first time when I go on my cruise in November I am going to stand in that awful line and remove my gratuities.  I will then pass it out to those who I want to tip.  I'm going old school.

[DPTexas]

We have been on several cruises since the restart and usually sail out of Galveston because we live in Texas, but recently sailed on the Panorama out of Long Beach, CA.  Each time we were asked if we wanted morning or evening room service.  We prefer evening service while we are eating dinner, going to shows, etc. and have always received excellent service. We have always found our cabin clean and refreshed - which is so nice before settling in for the evening.

 

We always find it far-easier to pay the auto-gratuity when we book our cruise because we realize there are too many "behind the scenes" staff that we couldn't possibly tip.  We also make a point of keeping a list of names and titles of staff to single out in a complimentary way for the survey that we always complete after each cruise.   We also usually choose to leave an extra tip for our cabin steward and those who serve us in the MDR each night.  I don't say this to brag or to make an argument if someone chooses to do otherwise, but we sail using great cruise offers and cruising for us is the most-relaxing vacations we take from our high-stress jobs.

 

I started cruising later in life, so I may not get past gold, but it's not for lack of trying!  LOL!  We simply love cruising!  I guess my point is that Carnival offers us enjoyable, relaxing, and much-needed vacations with staff, seen and unseen, who help make it such and we show our gratitude to them in the best and easiest way possible for us.

Continued happy cruising y'all!    

[Elaine5715]

30 minutes ago, rs45thompson said:

Yes, didn't really think about it.  I mean I paid the auto gratuities and paid a little extra if they did a fantastic job.  Now with the increase in gratuity, the once a day cleaning, the 2 hour plus dinners I want to know where my money is going. I think for the first time when I go on my cruise in November I am going to stand in that awful line and remove my gratuities.  I will then pass it out to those who I want to tip.  I'm going old school.

So, you didn't read the above posts?  Your cash tips will then be turned in.  

[Incognito1]

2 hours ago, rs45thompson said:

Yes, didn't really think about it.  I mean I paid the auto gratuities and paid a little extra if they did a fantastic job.  Now with the increase in gratuity, the once a day cleaning, the 2 hour plus dinners I want to know where my money is going. I think for the first time when I go on my cruise in November I am going to stand in that awful line and remove my gratuities.  I will then pass it out to those who I want to tip.  I'm going old school.

If you tip with Visa cards, they don't go into the pool (because they're not cash.)  It also allows those excellent cruise members that you're tipping to purchase something online for family back home.

 

I don't think there is one RIGHT way to tip, regardless of what some of the more vehement posters think (and post over and over ad nauseum).  Do what you feel is the right thing, and quit trying to guilt/shame/call out others who hold a different opinion.  It's your money; I'm not going to tell you how to spend it.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, rs45thompson said:

Yes, didn't really think about it.  I mean I paid the auto gratuities and paid a little extra if they did a fantastic job.  Now with the increase in gratuity, the once a day cleaning, the 2 hour plus dinners I want to know where my money is going. I think for the first time when I go on my cruise in November I am going to stand in that awful line and remove my gratuities.  I will then pass it out to those who I want to tip.  I'm going old school.

If you have or are experiencing less service then it is because of changes made by Corporate, not the employees providing the service. If you want to take this out on them that's your business, but I don't think that it is the right thing to do. You'll give them cash and then they'll have to use their off time to hand it in as they are required to do and it will still go into the pool.

[sparks1093]

18 hours ago, resetjet said:

I have done alot of research this week.  There are two ways that crewmembers are paid.  Guarantee rate=. They make the same regardless of anything.  The cruise line keeps the tips.   So in this case,  the cruise line would have to CONTRIBUTE any shortfalls in the tips and keep any overages.  
 

i think carnival does the salary plus tips method.  They get a small salary plus all their tips.  Problem is 75% of those tips go to people you never see.  
 

at this point i am just considering the auto tips just part of my cruise fare or a “resort fee” this way in my mind,  i am ok with it.  

My apologies for circling back to this (I feel like Dectective Columbo whenever this happens) but I had a thought related to it. You say that "75% of those tips go to people you never see". In a manner of speaking that might be so, but I believe that the stewards are the ones that get the lion's share of the tips designated for them, just as when you tipped out as watistaff you kept most of your tips and the tipped out folks got a small percentage. I believe that Carnival also has different pay scales based on seniority, so if someone has several cruises as a steward with Carnival they will receive a larger percentage from the tip pool then a first timer. I don't have anything to back this up, of course, since this is all proprietary information to begin with, but it does make perfect sense that it would be set up like this to reward longevity and give the staff an incentive for signing on again.

[Elaine5715]

10 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

If you tip with Visa cards, they don't go into the pool (because they're not cash.)  It also allows those excellent cruise members that you're tipping to purchase something online for family back home.

 

I don't think there is one RIGHT way to tip, regardless of what some of the more vehement posters think (and post over and over ad nauseum).  Do what you feel is the right thing, and quit trying to guilt/shame/call out others who hold a different opinion.  It's your money; I'm not going to tell you how to spend it.

Tip with Visa cards?  You can't paypal crew members

[resetjet]

5 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

My apologies for circling back to this (I feel like Dectective Columbo whenever this happens) but I had a thought related to it. You say that "75% of those tips go to people you never see". In a manner of speaking that might be so, but I believe that the stewards are the ones that get the lion's share of the tips designated for them, just as when you tipped out as watistaff you kept most of your tips and the tipped out folks got a small percentage. I believe that Carnival also has different pay scales based on seniority, so if someone has several cruises as a steward with Carnival they will receive a larger percentage from the tip pool then a first timer. I don't have anything to back this up, of course, since this is all proprietary information to begin with, but it does make perfect sense that it would be set up like this to reward longevity and give the staff an incentive for signing on again.

Thats ok.  I understand your concern. I guess you are asking how did i arrive at 25%.  The answer is i did the math.  Back from what a steward makes,  about $3500 a month including salary.  If they got for example 50% they would make almost 6000 a month.  Also i backed it up with alot of videos and crew members posts that all point in the same direction. The salary i got from shiplife/org.  

[sparks1093]

19 minutes ago, resetjet said:

Thats ok.  I understand your concern. I guess you are asking how did i arrive at 25%.  The answer is i did the math.  Back from what a steward makes,  about $3500 a month including salary.  If they got for example 50% they would make almost 6000 a month.  Also i backed it up with alot of videos and crew members posts that all point in the same direction. The salary i got from shiplife/org.  

Not quite, I wasn't asking anything, I was pointing out that while your steward may only get 25% of your tip ALL of the stewards receive a share based, in part, on their seniority and possiblity other factors. Some folks do get tipped out from the amount of the tips that is designated for the stewards, but their percentage isn't larger than what the stewards get. When you worked as a waiter you wouldn't have tipped out 75% of your tips to anyone and I don't think that happens here. 

[resetjet]

3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Not quite, I wasn't asking anything, I was pointing out that while your steward may only get 25% of your tip ALL of the stewards receive a share based, in part, on their seniority and possiblity other factors. Some folks do get tipped out from the amount of the tips that is designated for the stewards, but their percentage isn't larger than what the stewards get. When you worked as a waiter you wouldn't have tipped out 75% of your tips to anyone and I don't think that happens here. 

This is off princess. all of these plus more share in the steward tip.

 

The Housekeeping department is responsible for maintaining the highest level of cleanliness and service in guest staterooms, public areas, and open decks as well as providing laundry services to both guests and crew members. This department is also responsible for the movement of baggage on and off the ship and making sure the ship is ready for new guests each and every cruise. Entry-level positions within this department include Utility Cleaner, Accommodations Attendant, and Laundry Steward.

[Elaine5715]

17 minutes ago, resetjet said:

This is off princess. all of these plus more share in the steward tip.

 

The Housekeeping department is responsible for maintaining the highest level of cleanliness and service in guest staterooms, public areas, and open decks as well as providing laundry services to both guests and crew members. This department is also responsible for the movement of baggage on and off the ship and making sure the ship is ready for new guests each and every cruise. Entry-level positions within this department include Utility Cleaner, Accommodations Attendant, and Laundry Steward.

As they should.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, resetjet said:

This is off princess. all of these plus more share in the steward tip.

 

The Housekeeping department is responsible for maintaining the highest level of cleanliness and service in guest staterooms, public areas, and open decks as well as providing laundry services to both guests and crew members. This department is also responsible for the movement of baggage on and off the ship and making sure the ship is ready for new guests each and every cruise. Entry-level positions within this department include Utility Cleaner, Accommodations Attendant, and Laundry Steward.

I think I have already mentioned onboard baggage handlers and the folks who are responsible for cleaning public places as receiving a share of the tips. Yes indeed, they do get a share, but I don't think it's a large share. How much exactly they get doesn't matter to me at all.

[Joebucks]

I always love the two competing ideals, from the same people:

- Cruise lines should just pay their employees more

- I shouldn't have to pay people I never see

 

They should all be paid from the virtuous charity of high salary 

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

I always love the two competing ideals, from the same people:

- Cruise lines should just pay their employees more

- I shouldn't have to pay people I never see

 

They should all be paid from the virtuous charity of high salary 

Those posters aren't quite getting how cruiselines get money to pay bills.

[rs45thompson]

9 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

If you have or are experiencing less service then it is because of changes made by Corporate, not the employees providing the service. If you want to take this out on them that's your business, but I don't think that it is the right thing to do. You'll give them cash and then they'll have to use their off time to hand it in as they are required to do and it will still go into the pool.

In my opinion, if enough people remove gratuities that will show how unhappy we as cruisers are with the changes.  If we pay it and keep on, nothing will change.  They will just keep taking and taking and giving us less. They are trying to see where the breaking point is and I am at mine.  Not enough to stop cruising but enough to take notice.