Notice about Diamond Lounge on Harmony 2/26-3/12

[John&LaLa]

1 minute ago, DarthGrady said:

Not enough considering the headlines of late. A little more jazz might really calm some folks down. 

 

I always think of you when I drive past Darth Vapor on 200 😉

[Starry Eyes]

10 minutes ago, DarthGrady said:

While I also agree, the cruise lines have been very cautious about kicking smokers out of the main casinos. They might only be 12% of the overall market, but they're a significant percentage of casino patrons. It was easy to see on Harmony last month. The "smoking side" (which is laughable since the whole place is full of smoke) was noticeably busier than the non smoking side.  

There are now very few smoking locations on the ships.  That means the few remaining smoking location will draw smokers.  The smoking side of the casino has become the “smokers lounge” hosting both smokers who like to gamble and those mostly hanging around to smoke.  

Of course the smoke does not stay on its designated side of the casino.  That drives away the nonsmokers who might like to gamble but will not tolerate the smoke.

 

So, let’s do a mental exercise:  From the smoking side, subtract all the smokers just hanging out to smoke (not really gambling).  To the nonsmoking side add all the nonsmokers driven away by the smoke.  Now the crowds have switched; there are more people in the nonsmoking side.  

[Starry Eyes]

17 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I wonder what % of Americans enjoy Jazz🤔

I like jazz, though I do not necessarily like the bands playing in Jazz in 4 during my cruises

[DaKahuna]

30 minutes ago, DarthGrady said:

While I also agree, the cruise lines have been very cautious about kicking smokers out of the main casinos. They might only be 12% of the overall market, but they're a significant percentage of casino patrons. It was easy to see on Harmony last month. The "smoking side" (which is laughable since the whole place is full of smoke) was noticeably busier than the non smoking side.  

 

 We like gambling on the non-smoking side.  Yes, there is still a bit of smoke odor in the air but it is not as bad as having someon's smoke coming directly in your face.  One of our favorite things about Celebrity is that their casino's have been smoke free for years. 

 

[DarthGrady]

2 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

There are now very few smoking locations on the ships.  That means the few remaining smoking location will draw smokers.  The smoking side of the casino has become the “smokers lounge” hosting both smokers who like to gamble and those mostly hanging around to smoke.  

Of course the smoke does not stay on its designated side of the casino.  That drives away the nonsmokers who might like to gamble but will not tolerate the smoke.

 

So, let’s do a mental exercise:  From the smoking side, subtract all the smokers just hanging out to smoke (not really gambling).  To the nonsmoking side add all the nonsmokers driven away by the smoke.  Now the crowds have switched; there are more people in the nonsmoking side.  

 

You may be right, I think we'll just have to wait and see how well the non-smoking casino/jazz clubs do. If they're a hit, maybe someday we'll see the two being swapped. I'm all for it, but I can't blame the cruise lines for being cautious. They know where they make their money (gambling and booze being big sources), and it's well known that a lot of gamblers like to smoke.  

[Tlbecker1]

19 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

See,,, but Royal has it all wrong with the casino. Like on the wonder, they have a tiny non-smoking casino. It should be the main casino as all non-smoking with a small smoking casino for those who can't make it to a designated smoking area. That is what NCL does. 

There also isn’t any smoking on Celebrity.😀

[Engineroom Snipe]

37 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I wonder what % of Americans enjoy Jazz🤔

 

Better question might be, "What percentage of RCI cruisers like Jazz." RCI is making a calculated decision to remove this venue in favor of what they perceive to be a more profitable space.

 

Cold hard truth about those corporate bean-counters: show me the profits. 🤑

[Denversail]

6 minutes ago, Tlbecker1 said:

There also isn’t any smoking on Celebrity.😀

I think this is part of the reason Royal isn't fast to make changes that alienate smokers. They already offer a smoke free option. I would also argue that not only do a lot of gamblers smoke but serious gamblers (the ones throwing out the dough) are pretty used to having to tolerate smokers in casinos. 

[Starry Eyes]

28 minutes ago, DarthGrady said:

it's well known that a lot of gamblers like to smoke.  

Though that has been said for years, a study says gamblers smoking habits reflect the population.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18276735/

 

If Royal Caribbean does this remodel on multiple Oasis class ships, the company can do their own “study.”  Put smokers in smaller casino on at least one ship and observe the impact on the large casino.  
In some markets it may make sense to have the large casino be smoking.  In other markets, nonsmoking.  The US market is moving toward nonsmoking.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Starry Eyes

[Starry Eyes]

2 minutes ago, Carnival Cheerleader said:

It's a shame they are working on the Diamond Lounge but at least they have given you alternative places to go.

It is nice that alternative are provided.  Plus they are working near the DL, not on the DL.  The DL may be impacted by noise or dust.

[Ret MP]

20 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

I agree with you….that’s what makes sense for the US market where the % smokers is 12% and falling.  

To play the Devil's Advocate, because I don't care, smoking or not doesn't mean anything to me (but, I am a none smoker), 12% of the general public?  I'd bet the % of casino goers is much higher, much much higher.  I'd also say that some non-smokers may light up a cigar or even a cigarette while on a cruise, drinking adult beverages, and in the casino. 

 

This is not meant to prove anything, to be argumentative, or anything like that.  I just believe that decisions are made based on utilization and %ages of people utilizing the various venues.  If a large %age of casino goers are smokers, the casino/business will cater to them.  

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ret MP

[Ret MP]

19 minutes ago, Carnival Cheerleader said:

I'm curious though, just how did a thread about not having access to the Diamond Lounge turn into a smoking thread. 🤨

It happens!  Most, if not many do take right or left turns then back again then off to the right or left again.  I look at it as a learning experience, almost always interesting and information that I didn't know.  I enjoy it and participate in it. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ret MP

[Starry Eyes]

30 minutes ago, Carnival Cheerleader said:

It's 12.5% for "cigarette" smokers. You are conveniently forgetting about cigar smokers and vapers that are treated like smokers. Percentage is 24% when counting ALL smokers (8% for vapers and 3.5% for cigar smokers). And while cigarette smoking may be declining, vaping is increasing.

I'm curious though, just how did a thread about not having access to the Diamond Lounge turn into a smoking thread. 🤨

I do not believe cigar smoking is allowed in the casino, so that % would not be relevant.  Your math is wrong.  Most people who vape also smoke (only 15% of U.S. e-cigarette users are non-smokers-Annals of Internal Medicine, 2018), thus you cannot just add the percentages together; they overlap far too much.   

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

Better question might be, "What percentage of RCI cruisers like Jazz." RCI is making a calculated decision to remove this venue in favor of what they perceive to be a more profitable space.

 

Cold hard truth about those corporate bean-counters: show me the profits. 🤑

 

Ok, then another question. 

 

What percentage of Royal Caribbean customers smoke?

 

And remember, their overall customer base is 25% non Americans 

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Carnival Cheerleader said:

It's 12.5% for "cigarette" smokers. You are conveniently forgetting about cigar smokers and vapers that are treated like smokers. Percentage is 24% when counting ALL smokers (8% for vapers and 3.5% for cigar smokers). And while cigarette smoking may be declining, vaping is increasing.

I'm curious though, just how did a thread about not having access to the Diamond Lounge turn into a smoking thread. 🤨

 

Saw a dude vaping in the lower deck of Serenade main theater last week

[John&LaLa]

55 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

To play the Devil's Advocate, because I don't care, smoking or not doesn't mean anything to me (but, I am a none smoker), 12% of the general public?  I'd bet the % of casino goers is much higher, much much higher.  I'd also say that some non-smokers may light up a cigar or even a cigarette while on a cruise, drinking adult beverages, and in the casino. 

 

This is not meant to prove anything, to be argumentative, or anything like that.  I just believe that decisions are made based on utilization and %ages of people utilizing the various venues.  If a large %age of casino goers are smokers, the casino/business will cater to them.  

 

I think they are providing lip service to the non smokers complaining about not using casino because of smoke. This gives them a smoke free environment. 

 

Let's see how popular it really is before they give in on main casino 

[Engineroom Snipe]

22 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Ok, then another question. 

 

What percentage of Royal Caribbean customers smoke?

 

And remember, their overall customer base is 25% non Americans 

 

I do not smoke. I have no bias. My point was, "How profitable is a smoking RCI customer in the Casinos compared to a typical average RCI non-smoker who does not gamble in the Casinos?"

 

I do not care if they are Americans. This is a raw financial decision.

 

"For the square footage of space available per ship, how many dollars of profit does the space generate against the alternative propositions?"

 

I do not like it either but I deal with corporate everyday. This is their mindset.

 

I could have had another degree in accounting with the courses I took to understand this mindset and figure out ways to justify investments in my projects.

 

I know, it is hard to accept.

[Ret MP]

1 hour ago, Starry Eyes said:

I do not believe cigar smoking is allowed in the casino, so that % would not be relevant.  Your math is wrong.  Most people who vape also smoke (only 15% of U.S. e-cigarette users are non-smokers-Annals of Internal Medicine, 2018), thus you cannot just add the percentages together; they overlap far too much.   

I posted and then edited this after I saw the below.  Cigar smoking is limited to, see below:

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/onboard-smoking-policy

 

Cigarettes, cigars and pipe tobacco must be properly disposed of and never thrown overboard. Cigar and pipe tobacco is limited to designated outdoor areas and Cigar Bars**.

 

The casino is not a designated OUTDOOR area.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Ret MP

[John&LaLa]

4 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

I do not smoke. I have no bias. My point was, "How profitable is a smoking RCI customer in the Casinos compared to a typical average RCI non-smoker who does not gamble in the Casinos?"

 

I do not care if they are Americans. This is a raw financial decision.

 

"For the square footage of space available per ship, how many dollars of profit does the space generate against the alternative propositions?"

 

I do not like it either but I deal with corporate everyday. This is their mindset.

 

I could have had another degree in accounting with the courses I took to understand this mindset and figure out ways to justify investments in my projects.

 

I know, it is hard to accept.

 

My comment was merely to the statistic that 12% of Americans smoke. That's really not a key statistic since 25% of Royals customers aren't Americans.

[sgmn]

7 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

My comment was merely to the statistic that 12% of Americans smoke. That's really not a key statistic since 25% of Royals customers aren't Americans.

Around 13% Brits. Probably 10-15% in most western countries

[Engineroom Snipe]

7 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

My comment was merely to the statistic that 12% of Americans smoke. That's really not a key statistic since 25% of Royals customers aren't Americans.

 

Understood.

 

Whether the Jazz lounge becomes a smoking casino, and the main casino is smoke-free (speculation here) or vice-a-versa, has already been decided based on what in totality brings in more money. Should RCI decide that non-smokers who are willing to gamble but will only do so in a smoke-free environment, exactly how many of them are there? RCI has no idea because they are currently not gambling and going to the casinos due to the smoke.

 

RCI already knows how many smoking gamblers there are as they have cameras everywhere. Do the smoking gamblers bet less money because they cannot get to their favorite activity in a smaller venue?

 

RCI does not care about the general public statistical trends. They care about people who cruise and then try to figure out how to entice non-cruisers to give them a try.

[Denversail]

I was on a cruise several years ago smoking at a black Jack table when a woman dragged her oxygen tank over to the table and started playing. She then proceeded to complain about my smoking. I pointed out to her that there were open tables in the non smoking section. She said she didn’t want to play at those. It just like anything else in life..when a group becomes a minority there is always a group of (sub in bad word) that think of the minority as second class. I’m sure none of the folks on this thread are like that. 🙄

[SbbquilterUT]

22 hours ago, Denversail said:

I think this is part of the reason Royal isn't fast to make changes that alienate smokers. They already offer a smoke free option. I would also argue that not only do a lot of gamblers smoke but serious gamblers (the ones throwing out the dough) are pretty used to having to tolerate smokers in casinos. 

It is amazing how busy the smoke free casinos are in Las Vegas - seems that even the smokers have accepted the change and are "investing" their money in the casinos.

[Engineroom Snipe]

33 minutes ago, SbbquilterUT said:

It is amazing how busy the smoke free casinos are in Las Vegas - seems that even the smokers have accepted the change and are "investing" their money in the casinos.

 

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave." (Sir Walter Scott)

 

What addiction is the strongest, the desire to gamble or the desire to smoke?

 

I make no judgements but think of the irony here.

 

Does the desire to gamble overcome the desire to be smoke-free but still gamble if there are no other alternatives but in a smoker environment.

 

I tolerate smoke because I want to gamble.

 

I tolerate not smoking because I want to gamble.

 

This is deep.........., too much for a Friday!  🤔

 

I hope everyone enjoys their cruises, smoker, smoke free, drinker, non-drinker, gambler, and non-gambler.

 

There is room enough for all of us onboard!  😁

[sailor05]

Damn! We'll be on the ship the week of the 26th, and it's a shame it wouldn't have been done BEFORE our cruise! Would really love to have the WHOLE casino to play. I try roaming over to the smoker's side but just can't take the in-your-face smokers.