Are pre-paid gratuities even worth it any more?

[ldubs]

18 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

 

It was only an inconvenience when the other employees kept asking for my autograph.  Apparently a lot of them are on Cruise Critic.

 

What does this mean?

[zitsky]

5 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

In most cases (in the land of the IRS) tips are included as part of wages.     Everyone mentions a "living wage".  What is that on a cruise ship?  How much, if any, should existing pay be increased to achieve that?  

 

That aside, customers pay for salaries.  I think I am safe in saying it is how we are expected to pay that is the issue here.   Again, I understand you and many others do not like the system.  If enough protest to the cruise lines perhaps it will change.  Come up with a better system and I'm all ears.  Until then, agree with the system or not, I prefer to not enrich myself at the expense of cruise staff salaries.  Of course, what I just said might be unfair to those who pull the auto grats and make equivalent cash tips.  I suspect most who pull the auto grats are not doing that.   

 

PS: was that empty coffee cup half empty or, uh never mind.  😀

Most people think employees are not paid enough so we have to make up the difference with tips.  I was poor.  I tip.  But I don’t think it’s my responsibility to tip them enough so they can afford a new Birkin bag.  I don’t even have one.

 

 

[zitsky]

5 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

What does this mean?

I think maybe he was making a joke to show he doesn’t take himself seriously?

[ldubs]

Just now, zitsky said:

Most people think employees are not paid enough so we have to make up the difference with tips.  I was poor.  I tip.  But I don’t think it’s my responsibility to tip them enough so they can afford a new Birkin bag.  I don’t even have one.

 

 

 

First you say your tips provide staff with a living wage.  Now you say your tips are providing an extravagant lifestyle.  

[RichYak]

5 minutes ago, zitsky said:

I would have no disagreement with you if he stood behind the desk and only came out when their was a problem.  That is not what he did.

Fair enough. I get the sense there's more but you'd rather not elaborate and I probably should have gotten to that point at least 1 post earlier. My apologies for prying. You have demonstrated enough thoughtfulness on this board that I trust your rating of his performance to be accurate.

[zitsky]

26 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

First you say your tips provide staff with a living wage.  Now you say your tips are providing an extravagant lifestyle.  

I said most people think……

 

I did not say I think…..

 

It’s the job of the EMPLOYER to provide a living wage.  It is NOT my responsibility to provide them with a luxury lifestyle.  Am I not being clear?

 

I also said that I tip.

 

I was a secretary in college so I understand living paycheck to paycheck.  I did not have a luxury lifestyle.

Edited July 11, 2023 by zitsky

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

It’s the job of the EMPLOYER to provide a living wage.  It is NOT my responsibility to provide them with a luxury lifestyle.  Am I not being clear?

 

Not to me.   Seems the rationale is bouncing all over the place.   I'm sure you are aware that, in most American states, restaurant tips are included in the minimum wage calculation. Tips count as part of wages.   Do you pull those tips because it isn't your responsibility?   Additionally, I'm not sure why a successful cruise ship employee should not be allowed to have a luxury lifestyle.  Seems an incentive program based on tips might allow that.  In my opinion, the existing one might be flawed if it doesn't accomplish that.  

 

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I also said that I tip.

 

I know. Hence my comment acknowledging those who tip cash. 

 

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I was a secretary in college so I understand living paycheck to paycheck.  I did not have a luxury lifestyle.

 

Many if not most of us experienced that during our younger years.   

[zitsky]

16 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Not to me.   Seems the rationale is bouncing all over the place.   I'm sure you are aware that, in most American states, restaurant tips are included in the minimum wage calculation. Tips count as part of wages.   Do you pull those tips because it isn't your responsibility?   Additionally, I'm not sure why a successful cruise ship employee should not be allowed to have a luxury lifestyle.  Seems an incentive program based on tips might allow that.  In my opinion, the existing one might be flawed if it doesn't accomplish that.  

 

 

I know. Hence my comment acknowledging those who tip cash. 

 

 

Many if not most of us experienced that during our younger years.   

 

It’s not bouncing anywhere.  I just keep trying to explain it to you.

 

I said I tip.  So if a person makes above the minimum wage with tips but they don’t feel they are paid enough, do they have the right to expect more from me?  How much of my income do you want me to hand over when I order a meal?

 

How much extra should I tip the Celebrity staff?  An extra 20%. 30%?

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by zitsky

[hrhdhd]

Jeepers, people. This endless parsing of phrases isn't changing any minds. It's easy, really: Tip or don't. 

[zitsky]

3 minutes ago, hrhdhd said:

Jeepers, people. This endless parsing of phrases isn't changing any minds. It's easy, really: Tip or don't. 

If the topic doesn’t interest you then why read it, your highness?

[Baggy178]

53 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

" Not to me.   Seems the rationale is bouncing all over the place.   I'm sure you are aware that, in most American states, restaurant tips are included in the minimum wage calculation. Tips count as part of wages.   Do you pull those tips because it isn't your responsibility?  "

 

 

 

 

The thing is the Celebrity Silhouette is not an American state. It's sails under a flag of convenience with a multi-national crew on contracts which would probably not pass muster under US employment legislation.

 

Realistically it's part of a multi-billion dollar corporation expecting passengers to subsidise its salary obligations because Liberian registration enables it to circumvent trade union representation.

 

I have not problem with that - they're all at it - but what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The automatic gratuities are not enforable in law which is why they are only voluntary unless they were to become part of the actual fare.

 

Celebrities gratuities in the level of class I'm in have just gone up 50c pp. Why ? Who decides that ? Where's the explanation which explains the logic behind that increase. Have staff wages gone up proportionately ?

 

To my mind there is too much fuzzy grey area to trust an organisation whose sole raison d'être is to fleece its passengers as much a possible - and I don't mind that because we're all capitalists eventually - so Celebrity shouldn't be surprised if there's pushback.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Baggy178

[zitsky]

@Baggy178

 

Did you say your gratuities went up 50 CENTS A PERSON or 50 PERCENT A PERSON?

[hrhdhd]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

If the topic doesn’t interest you then why read it, your highness?

The topic interests me. The endless sniping and microscopic examination of nouns and verbs doesn't.

[zitsky]

22 minutes ago, hrhdhd said:

The topic interests me. The endless sniping and microscopic examination of nouns and verbs doesn't.

What comments would prefer to see then?  Why don’t you post an example?

[hrhdhd]

19 minutes ago, zitsky said:

What comments would prefer to see then?  Why don’t you post an example?

I already summed it up in post 259.

 

Carry on with your ripostes. You'll get no tip from me.

[mahdnc]

4 minutes ago, hrhdhd said:

I already summed it up in post 259.

 

Carry on with your ripostes. You'll get no tip from me.

 

I just learned a new word.  Now I have to figure out how to pronounce it.....

[zitsky]

3 minutes ago, hrhdhd said:

I already summed it up in post 259.

 

Carry on with your ripostes. You'll get no tip from me.

People complain about the complainers then they don’t put up or shut up when asked what they would prefer to see.  🙄

 

It’s ok about the tip.  I’ll still get it unless you remove the gratuities from everyone.  You wouldn’t do that now, would you?

[grandgeezer]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

First you say your tips provide staff with a living wage.  Now you say your tips are providing an extravagant lifestyle.  

In many cases you are providing some of them with an extravagant life style. We’ve talked to many crew members who are highly educated, college degreed, and they said they make much more money working on a cruise ship than the could at home working in a job that needed their degree to get.

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

It’s not bouncing anywhere.  I just keep trying to explain it to you.

 

I said I tip.  So if a person makes above the minimum wage with tips but they don’t feel they are paid enough, do they have the right to expect more from me?  How much of my income do you want me to hand over when I order a meal?

 

How much extra should I tip the Celebrity staff?  An extra 20%. 30%?

 

 

Beats me because I never said anything about tipping extra or that anyone should expect more.  In fact I've said the exact opposite in this very thread.   I responded to and asked a question about a comment made earlier that customers are not to be responsible for providing  a "living wage".      

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, Baggy178 said:

 

 

Well, that we can agree about!  😀😀

 

 

[zitsky]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Not to me.   Seems the rationale is bouncing all over the place.   I'm sure you are aware that, in most American states, restaurant tips are included in the minimum wage calculation. Tips count as part of wages.   Do you pull those tips because it isn't your responsibility?   Additionally, I'm not sure why a successful cruise ship employee should not be allowed to have a luxury lifestyle.  Seems an incentive program based on tips might allow that.  In my opinion, the existing one might be flawed if it doesn't accomplish that.  

 

 

I know. Hence my comment acknowledging those who tip cash. 

 

 

Many if not most of us experienced that during our younger years.   

 

@ldubs said.  "I'm not sure why a successful cruise ship employee should not be allowed to have a luxury lifestyle."

 

A cruise ship employee "should be allowed to have" whatever lifestyle they want.  Isn't it up to them to make that possible?

[ldubs]

14 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

@ldubs said.  "I'm not sure why a successful cruise ship employee should not be allowed to have a luxury lifestyle."

 

A cruise ship employee "should be allowed to have" whatever lifestyle they want.  Isn't it up to them to make that possible?

 

Sure I can agree with that.  I hope what @grandgeezer says about cruise staff living well with what is provided via their wages and tips is true.  For whatever it is worth, I actually think we are not far apart as our back and forth might indicate in what should be or shouldn't be happening with tipping on cruise ships.  I think we both agree it is the process that might be flawed.  It is just that we deal with it differently I think. 

 

On a related vein, I've never been asked for an added gratuity on a cruise ship.  I have been asked several times for "10" ratings.   Truth be told, I would likely never give a bad rating unless the service were exceptionally poor.  It is something I happily have yet to encounter on a cruise.  

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

Sure I can agree with that.  I hope what @grandgeezer says about cruise staff living well with what is provided via their wages and tips is true.  For whatever it is worth, I actually think we are not far apart as our back and forth might indicate in what should be or shouldn't be happening with tipping on cruise ships.  I think we both agree it is the process that might be flawed.  It is just that we deal with it differently I think. 

 

On a related vein, I've never been asked for an added gratuity on a cruise ship.  I have been asked several times for "10" ratings.   Truth be told, I would likely never give a bad rating unless the service were exceptionally poor.  It is something I happily have yet to encounter on a cruise.  

The issue I have is if you have a bad employee.  I mean really bad.  Maybe he’s caught through a review, or customer feedback.  I hate to think I’m giving him/her money I worked for because they are part of a tipping pool.  

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

The issue I have is if you have a bad employee.  I mean really bad.  Maybe he’s caught through a review, or customer feedback.  I hate to think I’m giving him/her money I worked for because they are part of a tipping pool.  

 

I understand and agree with the concept of not wanting to reward poor performance.  The system, as I understand it, would weed those bad apples out pretty quick. I'm sure it happens.  Might be wishful thinking but perhaps less so than what might be encountered in other industries.     

[grandgeezer]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Sure I can agree with that.  I hope what @grandgeezer says about cruise staff living well with what is provided via their wages and tips is true.  For whatever it is worth, I actually think we are not far apart as our back and forth might indicate in what should be or shouldn't be happening with tipping on cruise ships.  I think we both agree it is the process that might be flawed.  It is just that we deal with it differently I think. 

 

On a related vein, I've never been asked for an added gratuity on a cruise ship.  I have been asked several times for "10" ratings.   Truth be told, I would likely never give a bad rating unless the service were exceptionally poor.  It is something I happily have yet to encounter on a cruise.  

If you check on Google, the average annual salary for a waiter/server, on Celebrity Cruises, was about $1,700 per month. Compare this to the $4,000 per year they would make back home in the Philippines, and I would call that upper middle class, at least.