Gratuities and tipping

[So_Tweetie]

5 minutes ago, antsp said:

I haven't seen your video, you quote 760 crew on the Grandeur, probably only half of them will be in the top pool. 

I understand that not all crew members will be paid out on tips but for the sake of providing an example that's practically guaranteed to be an underestimation of what they should be earning on customer "gratuities", I included all crew in the calculation. 

 

Here is the video link: 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by So_Tweetie

[voljeep]

3 hours ago, So_Tweetie said:

I have always tipped above the standard gratuities but lately with the ships adding 18% to the price of everything I have started to question whether the crew are actually receiving those tips.

 

I made a video discussing this while on a Royal Caribbean ship (Grandeur of the Seas) a couple months back, and did some math on the topic:

The standard daily gratuity on RCI is 16.00 per person per day.

The ship has a 2440 passenger capacity.

With each customer paying the standard non-suite gratuity, it would be $39,040 per day before any purchases.

That amount, divided equally among all 760 crew members would be $51.37 per crew member per day.

Multiplied by 30 days, each crew member would receive $1,541.05 per month on tips alone. And keep in mind - this is with zero additional purchases or cash tips given by customers during the sailing. 

 

Hate to sound dramatic but, I think there's a snowball's chance in hell that this amount of money is actually being passed on to crew. 

 

 

 

51.37 / 10 hour days = 5.14 per hour ... added to their salary of what? 

[So_Tweetie]

5 minutes ago, voljeep said:

51.37 / 10 hour days = 5.14 per hour ... added to their salary of what? 

I don't know the salary details and am not speaking to their pay per hour. I want to know that the gratuities we get charged for are actually being paid out to the crew. 

[voljeep]

4 minutes ago, So_Tweetie said:

I don't know the salary details and am not speaking to their pay per hour. I want to know that the gratuities we get charged for are actually being paid out to the crew. 

"crew" - after Captain's retirement fund, 'administrative costs and fees for shipboard employees, shoreside employees, corporate headquarters employees ... 

 

yep... to the 'crew'

[JimmyVWine]

11 minutes ago, voljeep said:

10 hour days

 

Light day for most crew members!   Your point is a good one, and becomes even more stark when the denominator is 14.

 

6 minutes ago, So_Tweetie said:

I ... am not speaking to their pay per hour.

 

Sure you are.  You posted in bold what the daily total comes out to be, and a day is nothing more than a collection of hours.  You can't speak to "daily pay" and then claim that this is unrelated to "hourly wage."  

[So_Tweetie]

18 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

Sure you are.  You posted in bold what the daily total comes out to be

Yes, in order to calculate what the crew should be receiving on a monthly basis. Notice all the other bold items that become an equation: passengers x standard gratuity per day = gratuities per day that should be distributed to the crew / number of crew onboard x 30 days average per month = monthly gratuity income per crew member. The point is that I don't believe they are receiving all of that money, whether they work 2 or 20 hours in a day. 

[So_Tweetie]

24 minutes ago, voljeep said:

"crew" - after Captain's retirement fund, 'administrative costs and fees for shipboard employees, shoreside employees, corporate headquarters employees ... 

 

yep... to the 'crew'

My point exactly. The "behind the scenes" employees are not all onboard the ship 😅

[JimmyVWine]

4 minutes ago, So_Tweetie said:

Yes, in order to calculate what the crew should be receiving on a monthly basis. Notice all the other bold items that become an equation: passengers x standard gratuity per day = gratuities per day that should be distributed to the crew / number of crew onboard x 30 days average per month = monthly gratuity income per crew member. The point is that I don't believe they are receiving all of that money, whether they work 2 or 20 hours in a day. 

 

Day. Month. Year.  Doesn't matter.  It all gets reduced to hourly wage.  Sort of like saying: "My car holds 15 gallons of gas and I have a range of 350 miles.  And I drive 1,400 miles in a month, and I buy 60 gallons of gas each month.  But I am talking about my car's range, not how many miles per gallon it gets."  But you are.

[So_Tweetie]

Just now, JimmyVWine said:

 

Day. Month. Year.  Doesn't matter.  It all gets reduced to hourly wage.  Sort of like saying: "My car holds 15 gallons of gas and I have a range of 350 miles.  And I drive 1,400 miles in a month, and I buy 60 gallons of gas each month.  But I am talking about my car's range, not how many miles per gallon it gets."  But you are.

I can't help you comprehend the discussion. Sorry 

[JimmyVWine]

1 minute ago, So_Tweetie said:

I can't help you [mis]comprehend the discussion. Sorry 

 

Fixed it.

[So_Tweetie]

1 minute ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

Fixed it.

Passengers pay tips by the day, not by the number of hours the crew works. Maybe if I put the point in bold it'll help: the crew doesn't receive all the money.  

[david63]

It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone on here what the crew, or anyone else for that matter, get paid - that is between them and their employer. If you don't agree with what you perceive that they are being paid then don't cruise - it really is that simple.

 

I doubt that there is an online debate about how much any member of this board is paid.

[rbtan]

Normally, we don't do packages. I may drink about 2 bottles of wine(per 12-15 day cruise) My spouse doesn't drink, so it's not expensive for us. As to tipping, we leave on the daily gratuity. There is a special place in Hell for those who remove it & screw over the staff. Normally we tip extra as well. on the loger cruises we take, normally we leave about $100 for our cabin attendant About $75 for the asst.cabin attendant. Normally, we don't tip extra for wait staff, as we do the anytime dining & always have different staff each night. Most of our cruises are on Oceania with a scattering on Princess(depending on itinerary) We're surprised at the amount of Princess pax who now cruise Oceania. Food quality can't be compared between the 2 lines. Oceania has no art auctions/annoying photographers/annoying daily interruptions/All soft drinks are complimentary. Same with specialty restaurants, except one that does wine & food tastings. Next year we may try MSC's Yacht Club. The rest of their ships are pretty mainstream.

[rbtan]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

"crew" - after Captain's retirement fund, 'administrative costs and fees for shipboard employees, shoreside employees, corporate headquarters employees ... 

 

yep... to the 'crew'

I hope you have "proof" of Captains retirement fund. He/she are Salary NOT hourly & do NOT share in the tip pool. Same goes for the shoreside & other types of non ship employees. They are NOT included in the hourly crew tipping pool.

[rbtan]

21 hours ago, cindyflora said:

But how do you find $2 bills anymore?????

Try going to a bank! Personally, I find passing out $2 bills as really cheesy. Same with dollar coins. Remember the fees they have to pay to convert currency. We don't tip on drinks(they are already there) We'll tip the Sommelier for his/her expertise(they don't have them on Princess)

[2 cruises a year]

1 hour ago, So_Tweetie said:

Passengers pay tips by the day, not by the number of hours the crew works. Maybe if I put the point in bold it'll help: the crew doesn't receive all the money.  

Personally, I believe it is a shell game on Princess' part, and a wash to us.  This way, it is non taxable to Princess.  They just pass it on, no income, no tax.  They could drop the Crew Appreciation and raise the fares, that would be taxable.

AND, as mentioned a couple of times, it is really none of our business.  It is between employee and employer.

But I hope that Princess stating that it all goes to the crew makes you feel better.

 

According to:

 

https://www.princess.com/learn/faq/onboard/onboard-experience/

 

And you dig down deep enough:

 

The last paragraph, I've highlighted it, ALL of it, less credit card fees, is passed on.

 

Crew Appreciation and Service Charge Policy

The “Crew Appreciation” is a daily amount for each guest that will be automatically added to your onboard account for your convenience, to recognize the efforts of a wide variety of crewmembers who contribute to the experiences of all our guests.  The crewmembers eligible to receive these funds work in various departments, many of whom rotate among different ships, throughout our fleet of ships. The amount of the Crew Appreciation will be based on stateroom category, as set out below:

For voyages departing through February 19, 2023:

Stateroom CategoryDaily amount per guest

Interior, Oceanview and BalconyUS $14.50

Mini-Suite and Reserve Collection

US $15.50

SuitesUS $16.50

For voyages departing February 20, 2023 and beyond:

Stateroom CategoryDaily amount per guest

Interior, Oceanview and BalconyUS $16

Mini-Suite and Reserve CollectionUS $17

SuitesUS $18

We pride ourselves on excellent guest satisfaction and our onboard team is available to immediately address any concerns you may have about your cruise. In the unlikely event you remain dissatisfied for any reason, the Crew Appreciation is subject to adjustment, at your discretion, at any time during the cruise up to the time you settle your onboard account prior to disembarkation. If you do not choose to adjust this daily charge while on board, your payment becomes final and nonrefundable.

A nonrefundable Service Charge of 17% - 18% of purchase will be automatically added to optional purchases of beverage packages, drinks, dining room and specialty dining, private group functions, and other elected products, services or amenities provided to guests that are not included in the Cruise Fare.  The Service Charge amount is based upon the service/product purchased and is applied as follows:

Service/ProductService Charge

Specialty Dining17% (included in total cover charge)

Specialty Food Items17% (included in total item charge)

Drink Packages18%

Drinks18%

Corkage Fee18% (included in total charge)

Private Group Functions18% (of total cost)

Spa Services*18%

* Service Charge payments for spa services are not pooled for the fleet.

If you pre-paid the Crew Appreciation and/or Service Charge as part of an all-inclusive or other applicable package: (i) the payments are bundled into your fare; (ii) the payments are nonrefundable from the time of purchase, except as part of the cruise fare, which refund shall be provided in accordance with our cancelation policy; and (iii) no additional amount will be added to your onboard account for the Crew Appreciation or for those Service Charges covered by such package.

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

[So_Tweetie]

3 minutes ago, 2 cruises a year said:

Personally, I believe it is a shell game on Princess' part, and a wash to us.  This way, it is non taxable to Princess.  They just pass it on, no income, no tax.  They could drop the Crew Appreciation and raise the fares, that would be taxable.

AND, as mentioned a couple of times, it is really none of our business.  It is between employee and employer.

But I hope that Princess stating that it all goes to the crew makes you feel better.

 

According to:

 

https://www.princess.com/learn/faq/onboard/onboard-experience/

 

And you dig down deep enough:

 

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

WOW, thank you for digging up that information! Very interesting and not how I've always understood gratuities to work.

 

I disagree that gratuities are between employee and employer. Uber, as an example, was taken to court because they lied to customers about gratuities being paid to workers when the company was actually pocketing 40% of "tips". Of course cruise lines are not held to America labor laws, and at least Princess discloses this.

 

The taxation point is another I have not heard mentioned before but makes a lot of sense. Thanks! 

[So_Tweetie]

1 hour ago, david63 said:

It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone on here what the crew, or anyone else for that matter, get paid - that is between them and their employer. If you don't agree with what you perceive that they are being paid then don't cruise - it really is that simple.

 

I doubt that there is an online debate about how much any member of this board is paid.

There has always been and always will be argument over the "optional" gratuities, and if people are not clear about how and where those gratuities are allocated/paid out they will be more likely to remove them. It's really NOT as simple and "cruise or don't", or it wouldn't be a timeless topic of discussion. Of those who choose to cruise, some pay auto-gratuities, some opt-out and don't tip at all (Australians), others remove auto-gratuities because they believe they can tip cash to individuals instead, etc..  

[Thrak]

I'm always amazed when someone says they tip extra because "we are all the way aft" or "we are all the way forward". So what? Long ago I did appliance repair. When I was new I worked mainly in the shop. When we had bar microwaves that were used primarily to pop popcorn they would sometimes need someone to go out and buy some microwave popcorn. The more "seasoned" guys, if they happened to be in the shop were outraged because "that's not my job!" I was always happy to do it as I was out of the shop, out from under supervision, etc. I truly doubt that anybody delivering room service is unhappy about being out and about the ship for a little longer in order to deliver "all the way aft or forward". I know I wouldn't be. I loved getting out on my own.

 

When I worked for the state I sometimes had to travel to the office in Eureka. My boss once asked me how long that actually was and I told him it was 5 hours one way. He said that was terrible! I thought, "Hmmm... I'm getting my regular salary plus (at that time) 50¢ per mile - non taxed - for using my own vehicle, to drive through the beautiful mountain scenery listening to an audio book."  They paid for my hotel, dinner, breakfast, and lunch the next day on the way home. When I would get that reimbursement check each month - at times up to $2,500 - it went straight into my cruise fund. It's all in how you look at things.

[JimmyVWine]

2 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

And this is the key phrasing.  Extra CASH payments  provided at the discretion of the passenger are neither "Crew Appreciation" nor "Service Charges".  "Crew Appreciation" is a term of art that applies to the set amount automatically included in your Package or charged to your account unless you remove it.  "Service Charges" is a specific term that pertains to the 18% automatically added to each purchase and paid by credit card, (hence the reference to "net of credit card transaction fees.")  Had Princess wanted to include "...and any other discretionary cash gratuities" into this paragraph, it would have done so.  The omission was not accidental or an oversight.     

Edited March 24, 2023 by JimmyVWine

[DallasGuy75219]

2 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

This way, it is non taxable to Princess.  They just pass it on, no income, no tax.  They could drop the Crew Appreciation and raise the fares, that would be taxable.

ALL of it, less credit card fees, is passed on.

 

 

2 hours ago, So_Tweetie said:

The taxation point is another I have not heard mentioned before but makes a lot of sense.

Taxes are a very minor part of the equation.  Cruise ships already sail under flags of convenience of countries with no or minimal corporate income tax.

 

The primary reason is to be able to advertise lower fares (that don't cover the full compensation cost) and have guests pay most of those compensation costs via quasi-optional gratuities. 

[2 cruises a year]

2 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

 

Taxes are a very minor part of the equation.  Cruise ships already sail under flags of convenience of countries with no or minimal corporate income tax.

 

The primary reason is to be able to advertise lower fares (that don't cover the full compensation cost) and have guests pay most of those compensation costs via quasi-optional gratuities. 

Even another example of why I call it a shell game.

[2 cruises a year]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

And this is the key phrasing.  Extra CASH payments  provided at the discretion of the passenger are neither "Crew Appreciation" nor "Service Charges".  "Crew Appreciation" is a term of art that applies to the set amount automatically included in your Package or charged to your account unless you remove it.  "Service Charges" is a specific term that pertains to the 18% automatically added to each purchase and paid by credit card, (hence the reference to "net of credit card transaction fees.")  Had Princess wanted to include "...and any other discretionary cash gratuities" into this paragraph, it would have done so.  The omission was not accidental or an oversight.     

To be sure that I understand this.  By specifically omitting "and any other discretionary cash gratuities", Princess condones crew keeping for themselves, any, and all cash tips that they personally receive.

[rickays]

4 hours ago, So_Tweetie said:

Of those who choose to cruise, some pay auto-gratuities, some opt-out and don't tip at all (Australians), others remove auto-gratuities because they believe they can tip cash to individuals instead, etc..  

 

That was a uncalled for remark,  Why do you single out that "Australians" don't tip??? We don't usually tip in Australia but sometimes we do, extra for the taxi driver or restaurant when we have had great service.  How do you know if I have paid auto gratuities and cash tips or one or the other.  I have seen Americans not tip on tours in Hawaii when I have tipped.  It is none of my business as to why they did't tip.  Everyone I know, when they travel to other countries, finds out about the necessity of tipping.

[FrankieJayIII]

On 3/22/2023 at 8:32 AM, cruzsnooze said:

Is that a tip or a bribe?

yes