I couldn’t believe the story about NCL

[Madmariner7]

59 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

Few things stand out to me, some have been mentioned by others:

- I've never seen a pop-up to add excursions or transfers etc, on the NCL app, or site

- I've added and left MANY things in my cart, but always get a warning and often an email stating my cart is "about to expire"

Same here, on both counts. I have a fully paid cruise booked now that I’ve added items to, within 30 days of sailing, and if I don’t complete payment on my cart I simply *haven’t added them*. And I know of no way to book transfers from the app, nor have I seen popups.

 

My take: This is either an issue with Uplift messing everything up, or is simply grossly misrepresented or fabricated by either the original customer or the consumer advocate.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Madmariner7
Clarification

[UKstages]

10 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

I have no idea if this is the same situation as what is being discussed. But I do find it odd that my TA would go out of their way to write that into the confirmation....almost as if this has happened to people in the past.

 

this is exactly what this sounds like. it's clearly happened before and this TA is taking proactive measures to warn people, even if NCL is not. the TA is erring on the side of caution, saying it happens any time anything is ordered, but not immediately paid for. my spidey sense says that it only happens at minus 21 days.

 

the problem here is that strange things happen when you're 21 days out.  you order, or attempt to order, or contemplate ordering something, the app apparently thinks you ordered it... and since it's 21 days out, it immediately classifies you as somebody who hasn't paid for your reservation. it makes  no distinction between something that hasn't been paid for after a year of planning or something that was possibly ordered five minutes ago. sounds like a serious app design flaw.

 

9 minutes ago, Panhandle Couple said:

Because the "victim" has only paid $804 to Uplift. 9 more payments left.

Refunding a full amount of over $5,000 would lead to multiple scams run on NCL, and very quickly.

 

uh, no. just... well, no.

 

that's not the way financing generally works. i never heard of uplift, but i imagine it works the same as any other finance arrangement. uplift immediately pays NCL and uplift then becomes the creditor. the purchaser has a contract with uplift requiring ten or twelve (or whatever) equal payments over the course of a year. NCL can refund the purchaser and it has no bearing on the purchaser's obligation to pay the creditor. they would still owe the money to uplift. so, a "scam" such as you describe would simply not work.

 

yes, credit cards can be stolen and used to purchase goods and services. but i know of no scammer that would request a refund be given from a company to which they would already have had to submit their personally identifiable information, such as name and address. if FCC were to be issued, it would have to be in the same name, which poses a problem if the credit card is stolen. and if a refund is made to the credit card, there would be no benefit to the "scammer."

[Panhandle Couple]

I have never used NCL Air, or purchased airport transfers, so I had to dig some to find the links and forms.

 

5 NCL cruises in the last 14 months, and I have NEVER had a pop up on the web site. My wife uses the app, I do not, but she says the same. for the app.  Note, it is not the same as placing something in your cart, that you may or may not pay for later.

 

From the web site:

 

"Book Your Transfers Today: Log in to MyNCL or call 800.327.7030
Norwegian Cruise Line offers ground transfers between the airport and the pier and vice versa. To purchase transfers online, have your airline documentation ready, log in to MyNCL and select Check-In. An option to purchase transfers to and from the cruise pier will appear in Step 4 after you enter valid flight information. You can also call us to purchase transfers. Purchases must be arranged at least 4 days prior to sailing."

 

Later:

"Note

• Ground Transfers can be added up to 4 days prior to sailing
• Ground Transfers can now be removed up to 22 days prior to sailing with no penalties
• Ground Transfers removed within 21 days of the start of the sailing will be in 100% penalty for the Ground Transfers"

 

Then going to the My Vacation portion of the web site:

 

Please provide your Departure and Return Flight Information below for pricing:

NOTE: When entering your flight information, be sure to enter only the INCOMING flight number and airport for the cruise port you are traveling to. And for the OUTGOING flight, enter only the flight number and airport that are you departing from. Connecting flight information is not necessary.

Departure

Do you want to purchase a transfer from the airport to the ship? *

                                             Yes                                             No                                         

Airline *

Flight Number *

 

Date of Arrival*

Arrival Airport *

 

So the traveler would have to fill out the info in order to get to step 4.  And then get a price. 

Getting "distracted by something, and putting your phone down" in the middle of ordering something is not a good idea, and not normal.  In all this would be 8 or 9 clicks, and at least 7 entry fields (assuming Credit card info adds after this screen) .  

 

The article indicates that the traveler did this less than 21 days out, which would mean immediate payment required.

 

(Note: I had to delete field drop down boxes to get the post to work.) 

SEARCH

[PATRLR]

4 hours ago, davencl said:

No one can recall emails from my email accounts.  

Then you, or your mail administrator, probably have recalls disabled.  But mail recall is absolutely a thing, I use it from time to time myself and it works (except to people like myself who have the ability to have my e-mails recalled, disabled)

 

2 hours ago, Madmariner7 said:

If you’ve opened an email from an external source, it can’t be removed by the original source. This puts the entire story in doubt for me, as well as the expertise of the consumer reporter.

Perhaps the victim didn't open the emails.

[PATRLR]

I don't see NCL disputing the fact that the cruise was paid in full, so, I am going to assume that it was.

A fully paid cruise should never get canceled - it's as simple as that.  The fact that NCL won't fix this makes me hope NCL gets all kinds of bad press here, they deserve it.

[ceilidh1]

1 hour ago, luv2kroooz said:

We have an upcoming sailing. We booked through a big box online agency. In reviewing our confirmation from the agency, the following is written in red....

 

"Make the most of your cruise by downloading
the Cruise Norwegian app prior to sailing.
Streamline the check-in and boarding process,
browse and reserve your favorite onboard
activities and more.

Note: NCL will cancel your cruise if you select
add-ons in the NCL Cruise Personalizer but do
not immediately pay for them."

 

I have no idea if this is the same situation as what is being discussed. But I do find it odd that my TA would go out of their way to write that into the confirmation....almost as if this has happened to people in the past.

As TAs we get sent this from NCL:

[Panhandle Couple]

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

 

this is exactly what this sounds like. it's clearly happened before and this TA is taking proactive measures to warn people, even if NCL is not. the TA is erring on the side of caution, saying it happens any time anything is ordered, but not immediately paid for. my spidey sense says that it only happens at minus 21 days.

 

the problem here is that strange things happen when you're 21 days out.  you order, or attempt to order, or contemplate ordering something, the app apparently thinks you ordered it... and since it's 21 days out, it immediately classifies you as somebody who hasn't paid for your reservation. it makes  no distinction between something that hasn't been paid for after a year of planning or something that was possibly ordered five minutes ago. sounds like a serious app design flaw.

 

 

uh, no. just... well, no.

 

that's not the way financing generally works. i never heard of uplift, but i imagine it works the same as any other finance arrangement. uplift immediately pays NCL and uplift then becomes the creditor. the purchaser has a contract with uplift requiring ten or twelve (or whatever) equal payments over the course of a year. NCL can refund the purchaser and it has no bearing on the purchaser's obligation to pay the creditor. they would still owe the money to uplift. so, a "scam" such as you describe would simply not work.

 

yes, credit cards can be stolen and used to purchase goods and services. but i know of no scammer that would request a refund be given from a company to which they would already have had to submit their personally identifiable information, such as name and address. if FCC were to be issued, it would have to be in the same name, which poses a problem if the credit card is stolen. and if a refund is made to the credit card, there would be no benefit to the "scammer."

Unfortunately, all of your private data is available on line, if some one searches hard enough.  Heck The US Government files on all their employees was hacked over 15 years ago.  That was well over 1 million people.  Think your local dentist, doctor, etc has better security?  And most people willingly place their private data on FB and other social media sites without even thinking about the risks involved.

FCC was not discussed until later in the claims process. Money back was first.

Yes, a stolen card number with a positive balance is like gold.   

 

Again, this person is probably not a scammer. but companies like NCL have to be wary of scammers all the time.

 

[luv2kroooz]

5 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

As TAs we get sent this from NCL:

Wow, thanks for sharing. What a stupid way to program their system. Why would they cancel the entire reservation? If I try to pay for a shorex and the card declines, then the shorex doesn't get purchased. I don't see the connection between the " invoice item" and the fully paid cruise reservation. I mean presumably NCL still has their money for the fully paid cruise portion of the reservation and needs to deliver. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by luv2kroooz

[ceilidh1]

1 minute ago, luv2kroooz said:

Wow, thanks for sharing. What a stupid way to program their system. Why would they cancel the entire reservation? If I try to pay for a shorex and the card declines, then the shorex doesn't get purchased. I don't see the connection between the " invoice item" and the fully paid cruise reservation. I mean presumably NCL still has their money for the fully paid cruise portion of the reservation and needs to deliver. 

I believe it only applies if a TA adds stuff to a booking in the NCL booking platform (different to consumer site). By adding items, the invoice is left with an outstanding balance so if final payment has passed, that would prompt the booking to cancel. I don't believe that this is the case if a customer adds items to their cart themselves - in fact, I did that very thing myself recently and other than many emails reminding me that my cart was about to expire there was no sign that the cruise would be cancelled. Who knows. Maybe this was due to the Uplift program? 

[Happycrafter123]

I can see how this could happen as they have a lot of system glitches.  I tried to book excursions on the app the other day and it added me but not my spouse, I kept trying to add it and then it popped up as booked but no payment was requested.  Then I found a spot on the payment page saying I owed money so I paid it but then I called customer service (1 and 1/2 hours of my life gone) and they had to apply it as the system had taken payment but not attached it.  I was glad the CS agent could fix it.  She did note they were having some big system issues that day.

 

It terrifies me that they could cancel a persons trip and forfeit their refund due to a  small matter of such inconsequential dollar value potentially caused by a system malfunction.  Based on this info I will do all remaining booking by phone now instead of online, and hope they amend their policies, as this is the type of thing that makes people feel unsafe in their planning and starts making the Disney and other cruises look so much less risky to book.

[MoCruiseFan]

5 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

I have AOL! It was the only way I could keep my Verizon.net email that I’ve had for decades. It’s pretty awful.

 

Version quit providing email service to their customers and farmed the email to AOL servers.  It is still verizon.net email just AOL is running the mail servers.  You do not need to have AOL to use the verizon email.  However if customers wants to use a web based mail interface they must use that provided by AOL. 

[Oldsweets]

I also was a disbeliever and only posted after reading the story by the consumer advocate.  We still use AOL so yep some of us antiques are still breathing.  In the comments under the story the writer says they are moving forward with contacting media outlets.  If this pans out to be true the blow could be serious for NCL.  It will be reason enough for many to avoid NCL and as a minimum why would anyone book anything additional to a booked cruise with the risk of loosing a booking?   

[Oldsweets]

This is a story I will be following to see how it shakes out.  The facts will perk to the top in the coming days.  

[Karaboudjan]

27 minutes ago, Oldsweets said:

I also was a disbeliever and only posted after reading the story by the consumer advocate.  We still use AOL so yep some of us antiques are still breathing.  In the comments under the story the writer says they are moving forward with contacting media outlets.  If this pans out to be true the blow could be serious for NCL.  It will be reason enough for many to avoid NCL and as a minimum why would anyone book anything additional to a booked cruise with the risk of loosing a booking?   

 

And do we really think that NCL is not aware of the potential bad publicity from this? Of course they are, so they must have a pretty good reason for taking the position that they are.

[Kevil]

I believe it.  I have an NCL cruise coming up in April.  A few weeks ago, after final payment but before 21 days, I went to add a shore excursion on the website (not through the app).  I think I mistyped my cc number and the payment did not go through.  But, instead of just not reserving the shore excursion it added the shore excursion to my booking and now said I owed money on the reservation previously paid in full.  I immediately clicked to make a payment and this time it went through, and my status updated back to fully paid.  I suspect if I had waited a day my entire reservation would have been forfeited instead of just the shore excursion.  I was going to add the arcade package for my kids, but now it seems too risky to add anything else before boarding.

[SeaShark]

Seems from the reading that these issues are affecting people who are touching their own reservations and not people whose reservations are being touched by their TA or PCC. Perhaps letting the TA/PCC handle these things would be the wiser move.

[vettesale]

12 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Then you, or your mail administrator, probably have recalls disabled.  But mail recall is absolutely a thing, I use it from time to time myself and it works (except to people like myself who have the ability to have my e-mails recalled, disabled)

 

Perhaps the victim didn't open the emails.

Not that missing emails prove the story is correct or not, but regardless if an email is opened or still unread by the recipient, once you send it, there is no way to recall that email. The exception to this is if you are in the same group/org - for example, same company. Then that company may allow this internal recall. I doubt NCL uses AOL and even if they did, this goes across org's so no recall is possible.

[Homosassa]

How often do we see posts on Cruise Critic where someone is screaming that a cruise line  has "done them wrong" when it often simply boils down to the poster having screwed up their reservations and payments because the poster didn't know what they were doing or were not aware of the available information (rules) about bookings and payment?

 

Is it sad that the cruiser that had her cruise cancelled because procedures in the fine print were not followed?

 

Yes, it is. It is a very expensive lesson.  However, NCL is not at fault and owns no money to the cruiser.

 

This reminds me of the brouhaha several months ago about the "over one hundred" Princess cruisers left on the pier at embarkation because they did not have the required vaccinations to take a trans Atlantic cruise.

 

Real story was that it was an extended family group of thirty seven that ignored the information that was there on the website, the booking confirmations, and the on line check ins that vaccination was required.

[RocketMan275]

Regardless of fault, this story underscores the need to use a travel professional in even the most trival interactions with NCL.    Either use a PCC or a TA.

[ngrund]

1 hour ago, vettesale said:

Not that missing emails prove the story is correct or not, but regardless if an email is opened or still unread by the recipient, once you send it, there is no way to recall that email. The exception to this is if you are in the same group/org - for example, same company. Then that company may allow this internal recall. I doubt NCL uses AOL and even if they did, this goes across org's so no recall is possible.

Not true about the e-mails-

 

I don't know about other with other e-mail software, but with Microsoft Outlook as long as the sent e-mail was not already read/opened by the recipient, you can absolutely recall an e-mail and either have it deleted, or replaced by an edited e-mail.

 

You can also select to be notified if the recall is successful or not. This is for my work e-mail, so it may be for the commercial version only

 

I have both recalled e-mails, and seen others outside my agency recall e-mails to me before I open them many times-

[PATRLR]

1 hour ago, vettesale said:

Not that missing emails prove the story is correct or not, but regardless if an email is opened or still unread by the recipient, once you send it, there is no way to recall that email. The exception to this is if you are in the same group/org - for example, same company. Then that company may allow this internal recall.

I'm sorry, but this is simply NOT correct.  

Message recall is part of the SMTP protocol and has been for years.  SMTP is group or organization agnostic.   It's very possible your group or organization doesn't allow recall in either direction but I assure you it works across organizations and across mail systems.  I have sent mail to customers and recalled them successfully.  I have had customers attempt to recall mail from me - the request made it to me, but, I have my mail configured to disallow recall.

There are situations where it won't work.  For example, if you POP mail from a server to your client, then the mail on your client can't be recalled.  I *think* you are correct in that a mail that has been opened can't be recalled (not positive and not going to read the spec).  

 

[Isabella Benjamin]

I guess I just want to know if NCL actually has the right to cancel your cruise that's been fully paid just because you have something in your cart on their website.  

[vettesale]

12 minutes ago, ngrund said:

Not true about the e-mails-

 

I don't know about other with other e-mail software, but with Microsoft Outlook as long as the sent e-mail was not already read/opened by the recipient, you can absolutely recall an e-mail and either have it deleted, or replaced by an edited e-mail.

 

You can also select to be notified if the recall is successful or not. This is for my work e-mail, so it may be for the commercial version only

 

I have both recalled e-mails, and seen others outside my agency recall e-mails to me before I open them many times-

 From Microsoft's support  site:

 

"Message recall is available after you click Send and is available only if both you and the recipient have a Microsoft 365 or Microsoft Exchange email account in the same organization. So, for example, a message sent to or from a Hotmail, Gmail, or live.com account can't be recalled."

 

The key word above is "same organization." Plus the person used an AOL.com account which is outside of Microsoft's email control/NCL's organization.

[PTC DAWG]

3 minutes ago, Isabella Benjamin said:

I guess I just want to know if NCL actually has the right to cancel your cruise that's been fully paid just because you have something in your cart on their website.  

I agree..li don’t understand that logic at all. 

[PATRLR]

6 minutes ago, vettesale said:

From Microsoft's support  site:

 

"Message recall is available after you click Send and is available only if both you and the recipient have a Microsoft 365 or Microsoft Exchange email account in the same organization. So, for example, a message sent to or from a Hotmail, Gmail, or live.com account can't be recalled."

Do you have a link for that quote?  "Microsoft Support site" is rather dubious, it could be some misinformed Microsoft employee or worse, just some internet yahoo writing that. 

As I said above, message recall is part of SMTP and I've used it across organizations many times.