New CEO of Celebrity Interesting but happy they stay within for promotions.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

58 minutes ago, Oceansaway17 said:

Well with Lisa moving on perhaps men will once again feel welcomed as an officer.

I always thought she was way too pro-women just a bit 

Seriously?

[NutsAboutGolf]

Usually the very first stage of designing a cruise ship is conceptual development.  This is when major features like IVs, Eden and Magic Carpet would be greenlighted, but by who?  Someone overseeing construction wouldn't necessarily mean they had a part in greenlighting major features

[Bo1953]

3 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

I respectfully disagree with this and all the other posts about ships sailing full.  Every ship pretty much sails as full as the cruise line wants it to.  At the right price cabins will sell out.  Just comes down to how much discounting X is willing to accept to get the job done.  Staffing issues may also cause them to permit a higher vacancy rate.

IME, when there has been less than 'optimal' occupancy for X (or other lines for all this matters) it has been disclosed and on X ships, quite a few passengers said as such while they were on their sailing. A few even reported numbers as told to them while aboard.

 

While cabins may not have been 100% "fully" booked, I Am sure the passenger count has approximated what X would consider at least fully booked.

 

Additionally, there have been a few posts where those traveling in The Retreat reported that was full as I found that there were few cabins at a price point I was willing to pay available.

 

My post was pointed to passenger count and not price of cabins which are two (2) different poi's.

 

Currently, there have been no onslaught reports of staffing shortages, yet I do presume that is still an issue to some degree.

 

Thank you and bon voyage

[Bo1953]

13 minutes ago, OfTheSeasCruiser said:

Seriously?

Yeah, the poster is, then again the next thoughts about the staff which might be more representative is not far behind, IME of such statements, then again...

 

bon voyage

[Ipeeinthepools]

1 hour ago, Oceansaway17 said:

Well with Lisa moving on perhaps men will once again feel welcomed as an officer.

I always thought she was way too pro-women just a bit 

 

Careful, you are close to the third rail on CC.

[markeb]

51 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

Usually the very first stage of designing a cruise ship is conceptual development.  This is when major features like IVs, Eden and Magic Carpet would be greenlighted, but by who?  Someone overseeing construction wouldn't necessarily mean they had a part in greenlighting major features

 

Celebrity used to make it easy to find basic information on their ships, but that's much harder now. According to Google and Wikipedia, Celebrity announced the order to build the Edge (class) on December 4, 2014, construction began on November 21, 2016, and the keel was laid on June 21, 2017. To get a reasonable construction estimate, key features like the IV and Magic Carpet should have been locked in before the initial order in 2014, and they could easily have been envisioned 2-4 years earlier, so probably 2010 to 2012. Unless Eden required structural changes, it probably could have been finalized during construction, for a price, obviously.

 

LLP became President and CEO of Celebrity in 2014.

 

Not saying she's the greatest CEO in the history of CEOs. But she would almost certainly have inherited the design of Edge. We'll never know what kind of power she would have had to stop after one, or what changes were structurally possible. Did she have a role in the design while an SVP at Royal Caribbean? That was an operations position, BTW. Or did she simply inherited Fain's baby? For a $1B construction project, I'd assume the greenlight would go all the way to the board, through Fain at RCG (or RCCL at the time).

[Keys Kathy]

2 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Celebrity used to make it easy to find basic information on their ships, but that's much harder now. According to Google and Wikipedia, Celebrity announced the order to build the Edge (class) on December 4, 2014, construction began on November 21, 2016, and the keel was laid on June 21, 2017. To get a reasonable construction estimate, key features like the IV and Magic Carpet should have been locked in before the initial order in 2014, and they could easily have been envisioned 2-4 years earlier, so probably 2010 to 2012. Unless Eden required structural changes, it probably could have been finalized during construction, for a price, obviously.

 

LLP became President and CEO of Celebrity in 2014.

 

Not saying she's the greatest CEO in the history of CEOs. But she would almost certainly have inherited the design of Edge. We'll never know what kind of power she would have had to stop after one, or what changes were structurally possible. Did she have a role in the design while an SVP at Royal Caribbean? That was an operations position, BTW. Or did she simply inherited Fain's baby? For a $1B construction project, I'd assume the greenlight would go all the way to the board, through Fain at RCG (or RCCL at the time).

What I don't get, and yes I am a shareholder, is why build the last two ships in the current economy? I have to believe the penalties would be a lot less than the building costs. 

 

We have walked away from deposits because of our earnings, why wouldn't they? Why continue to increase debt? Looking to all you math people out there!

[mahdnc]

1 hour ago, jagoffee said:

Celebrity was very generous and really took care of us.

 

Yes!!  Option for a full refund or a transfer of the booking to another sailing with price protection. And then an FCC for 50% of the cancelled cruise fare on top of all that.  I think Celebrity offered compensation for lost air travel expenses.  That was pretty good and it all occurred before COVID when Celebrity understandably standardized the compensation to something less generous to handle the mass cancellations.  Our roll call did an excellent job pushing for better terms and we were very supportive of each other.

Edited April 11, 2023 by mahdnc

[markeb]

6 minutes ago, Keys Kathy said:

What I don't get, and yes I am a shareholder, is why build the last two ships in the current economy? I have to believe the penalties would be a lot less than the building costs. 

 

We have walked away from deposits because of our earnings, why wouldn't they? Why continue to increase debt? Looking to all you math people out there!

Sunk cost fallacy?
 

It’s hard to stop once you’ve spent money. Not uncommon in the corporate world. There’s a basic principle that costs that are the same between alternatives shouldn’t be considered in financial decisions. You’ve already spent the money and spending more isn’t necessarily going to make it better. Kind of like one more hand in blackjack. Or maybe their projections see a massive turnaround. It’s hard to say and there may not be a logical reason. 

[Keys Kathy]

there may not be a logical reason

 

Now THERE is the answer!

[montythecat]

Ipeeinthepools (#221) explains why he will be found on HAL. I 

would agree with that and would add The Dutch Cafe and a 

better drinks package. The Billboard Onboard approach to music

is a terrific innovation. We love it and it is a major reason why we

now start our cruise searches by looking at the itineraries of the

Pinnacle and Vista Class ships of Holland America.

[Mickey S]

1 hour ago, Bo1953 said:

IME, when there has been less than 'optimal' occupancy for X (or other lines for all this matters) it has been disclosed and on X ships, quite a few passengers said as such while they were on their sailing. A few even reported numbers as told to them while aboard.

 

While cabins may not have been 100% "fully" booked, I Am sure the passenger count has approximated what X would consider at least fully booked.

 

Additionally, there have been a few posts where those traveling in The Retreat reported that was full as I found that there were few cabins at a price point I was willing to pay available.

 

My post was pointed to passenger count and not price of cabins which are two (2) different poi's.

 

Currently, there have been no onslaught reports of staffing shortages, yet I do presume that is still an issue to some degree.

 

Thank you and bon voyage

just for the record, RCL consolidated was sailing at 103 to 104% of occupancy in 2019, 3rd and 4th in cabins.

 

Also in 2019, RCL has ~20% profit on sales which is a great neighborhood to be in. Except since RCL is so capital intensive its ROI was not all that good.

Now wth all that debt if they get back to 20% profit on sales the ROI due to leverage should be fantastic.

[montythecat]

Ipeeinthepools (#221) explains why he will be found on HAL. I 

would agree with that and would add The Dutch Cafe and a 

better drinks package. The Billboard Onboard approach to music

is a terrific innovation. We love it and it is a major reason why we

now start our cruise searches by looking at the itineraries of the

Pinnacle and Vista Class ships of Holland America.

[montythecat]

Just to clarify my #236, The Dutch Cafe is only to be found on the

latest Pinnacle Class ships.

[Cap_D]

We hope the new President keeps the positives, which she had some role in (see public interviews about working on check-in times), and improves the brand.  With no historical context but lots of worldwide luxury experiences, we have enjoyed Edge and Apex, and understand the classic ships and at least one E-Class ship sail longer itineraries.   We can come up with a list of F&B and pinpoint design enhancements, but appreciate the attention to detail and crew empowerment.  Not many resorts of size come close for the same price spread, especially on the lower end of the price range (especially if room service is restored).

 

Not sure what better use the Eden space could be put towards, and enjoy the oasis it creates during the day that couldn't be more different from the hub bub of the rest of the ship.  And, in the evening it's the sight of a great restaurant and plenty of lounge space.  Also, always get a kick out of readily finding a seat on the Magic Carpet (one large balcony).  If one doesn't care for it, it is not taking the place of anything or essential for a particular activity or drink.  Yet, it's neat to see and a point of interest.  

 

We would like to see the company have a private beach experience (and access to the new RC Nassau beach club) for passengers on Caribbean itineraries.  

[Honolulu Blue]

2 hours ago, Keys Kathy said:

What I don't get, and yes I am a shareholder, is why build the last two ships in the current economy? I have to believe the penalties would be a lot less than the building costs. 

 

We have walked away from deposits because of our earnings, why wouldn't they? Why continue to increase debt? Looking to all you math people out there!

Here's my best guess.

 

New and shiny cruise ships have always been able to command a premium rate and fully book relatively quickly. Look at Icon OTS and the NCL Prima for recent examples of this. The only time they couldn't get that premium was during and immediately after the industry shutdown.

 

Also, if I understand correctly, the cruise ship financing is mostly held by the shipyards, and their financing terms were relatively generous and flexible. After all, if the cruise line goes down, they're also in deep trouble.

 

It's a balancing act between current cash outlay and potential future rewards.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

7 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Also, if I understand correctly, the cruise ship financing is mostly held by the shipyards, and their financing terms were relatively generous and flexible. After all, if the cruise line goes down, they're also in deep trouble.

 

It's a balancing act between current cash outlay and potential future rewards.

In 2020 EU did give a lot of money to keep the shipyards going 

https://maritime-executive.com/article/government-banks-providing-cruise-lines-with-financial-lfeline

[Keys Kathy]

9 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Here's my best guess.

 

New and shiny cruise ships have always been able to command a premium rate and fully book relatively quickly. Look at Icon OTS and the NCL Prima for recent examples of this. The only time they couldn't get that premium was during and immediately after the industry shutdown.

 

Also, if I understand correctly, the cruise ship financing is mostly held by the shipyards, and their financing terms were relatively generous and flexible. After all, if the cruise line goes down, they're also in deep trouble.

 

It's a balancing act between current cash outlay and potential future rewards.

I can understand that. If you notice, Apex and Beyon are already on the Exciting Deals list. If they were that full, why would they be there? Could it be that Exciting Deals aren't that exciting anymore? Just a marketing gimmick? 

 

Personally, I am a bit tired of trying to figure out their pricing. Is it AI? Base? I have been pricing several sailings for the last 6 months. Regardless of the sale, the price is the same. 

 

Needless to say, I am bewildered, and having to hunt down a price is frustrating. It seems like a bait and switch. They put so much time and money into advertising AI, you think that is what you are getting and then it is not. 

 

They should have a filter for AI or cruise only. The AI they sometimes have under offers does not cover all sailings. 

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, adjustman said:

 I was surprised was LLP's retirement, but she is 65. Maybe, she figures it's time to enjoy life. If she was let go, i would not think they would let her stay around for another year. Just my thoughts. I have to say we like the Celebrity product and hope it continues as is.  

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo will transition to Vice Chair, External Affairs for Royal Caribbean Group, effective May 1. In her new role, Lutoff-Perlo will continue reporting to Royal Caribbean Group President and CEO Jason Liberty

[Ex-Airbalancer]

18 minutes ago, Keys Kathy said:

I can understand that. If you notice, Apex and Beyon are already on the Exciting Deals list. If they were that full, why would they be there? Could it be that Exciting Deals aren't that exciting anymore? Just a marketing gimmick? 

 

Personally, I am a bit tired of trying to figure out their pricing. Is it AI? Base? I have been pricing several sailings for the last 6 months. Regardless of the sale, the price is the same. 

 

Needless to say, I am bewildered, and having to hunt down a price is frustrating. It seems like a bait and switch. They put so much time and money into advertising AI, you think that is what you are getting and then it is not. 

 

They should have a filter for AI or cruise only. The AI they sometimes have under offers does not cover all sailings. 

I stopped looking at advertising as the only true way to get a price is to do a mocking booking 

and compare basic and Always included pricing

Also find a good TA that has group pricing , where Always included can be the same price as basic 

[markeb]

26 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo will transition to Vice Chair, External Affairs for Royal Caribbean Group, effective May 1. In her new role, Lutoff-Perlo will continue reporting to Royal Caribbean Group President and CEO Jason Liberty

 

Rick--there's a post somewhere in the thread of what looks to be an internally directed letter from her to staff with a planned retirement in either 2024 or 2025 if I remember correctly. So looks like both are true.

[bikerunner]

5 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I stopped looking at advertising as the only true way to get a price is to do a mocking booking 

and compare basic and Always included pricing

Also find a good TA that has group pricing , where Always included can be the same price as basic 

Exactly the rates usually all come out very similar with their sales.  Maybe more obc on one or lower rate on another etc.  I book with TA's now.  I have 2 main ones I ask to give me prices for, they always have group rates, or most of time anyways and usually a good 20-30% lower than the adv price on Celebrity. The main thing with the TA's they mostly just have the blocks with 1 or 2 room types, ie Concierge and sometimes Aqua and rarely suites.  The obc amounts are whatever Celebrity offers plus a decent amount from the TA.  I have gotten up to almost 30+% of the cruise price in obc.  

[drakes2]

19 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I stopped looking at advertising as the only true way to get a price is to do a mocking booking 

and compare basic and Always included pricing

Also find a good TA that has group pricing , where Always included can be the same price as basic 

I've used two different TAs in the past and received group pricing but my card is billed in USD. Never found a Canadian one with group rates.

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo will transition to Vice Chair, External Affairs for Royal Caribbean Group, effective May 1. In her new role, Lutoff-Perlo will continue reporting to Royal Caribbean Group President and CEO Jason Liberty

 

She's only doing this for ~12 months and will fully retire in April 2024. 

 

I wanted to personally share the news with you of my decision to transition into a new role at the Royal Caribbean Group, effective May 1st. As I prepare to ultimately retire from the company in April of 2024, I decided the time was right to turn Celebrity over to a new leader. It has always been incredibly difficult for me to imagine leaving this amazing brand. But, I also knew the time would come when I would have to make that decision.

 

13 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Celebrity used to make it easy to find basic information on their ships, but that's much harder now. According to Google and Wikipedia, Celebrity announced the order to build the Edge (class) on December 4, 2014, construction began on November 21, 2016, and the keel was laid on June 21, 2017. To get a reasonable construction estimate, key features like the IV and Magic Carpet should have been locked in before the initial order in 2014, and they could easily have been envisioned 2-4 years earlier, so probably 2010 to 2012. Unless Eden required structural changes, it probably could have been finalized during construction, for a price, obviously.

 

LLP became President and CEO of Celebrity in 2014.

 

Not saying she's the greatest CEO in the history of CEOs. But she would almost certainly have inherited the design of Edge. We'll never know what kind of power she would have had to stop after one, or what changes were structurally possible. Did she have a role in the design while an SVP at Royal Caribbean? That was an operations position, BTW. Or did she simply inherited Fain's baby? For a $1B construction project, I'd assume the greenlight would go all the way to the board, through Fain at RCG (or RCCL at the time).

 

👍 To give some indication of the lead time, during various calls over the past few years it's come up several times that Beyond (the actual Beyond, not when Apex was named Beyond) was under "final" design considerations at the time Edge was being announced. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Jeremiah1212

[TeeRick]

5 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

She's only doing this for ~12 months and will fully retire in April 2024. 

 

I wanted to personally share the news with you of my decision to transition into a new role at the Royal Caribbean Group, effective May 1st. As I prepare to ultimately retire from the company in April of 2024, I decided the time was right to turn Celebrity over to a new leader. It has always been incredibly difficult for me to imagine leaving this amazing brand. But, I also knew the time would come when I would have to make that decision.

 

 

👍 To give some indication of the lead time, during various calls over the past few years it's come up several times that Beyond (the actual Beyond, not when Apex was named Beyond) was under "final" design considerations at the time Edge was being announced. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to you and @markeb for setting me straight on this, which I missed.  Apologies.