Tipping on Board

[longterm]

27 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Another culture, or way of doing things in another country is not lunacy. Thinking it is shows a lack of empathy and understanding

One could say the same of what you're trying to tell me. Let it go.

[Peter Lanky]

I have been reading this with interest. If we are then to accept the phrase of 'When in Rome . . ." as a rule or guideline then when one goes to the US, one should participate in the tipping culture because that's how it works in 'Rome'.

 

However it is not the culture in the rest of the 'first world', though some people think it is due to a mixture of watching TV, opportunism of business owners, and alcohol enhancement. So now in a different 'Rome' it should be expected that tipping is not normal, yet people insist on doing it and making things difficult for those of us who wish to retain the culture of our own countries.

 

In third world countries, there was never a tipping culture before mass tourism, but when wealthy people hand out money to poor people, they are only too happy to take it and it soon becomes an 'expectation' often accompanied by aggression. The introduction of tipping here had done no favours at all.

 

Until tipping becomes a completely voluntary and discrete, then it is going to always cause problems. Thank goodness my next cruise is priced in a manner to pay the staff properly, and the port of call are in Japan, so I can happily not tip without being bullied.

[KBs mum]

We try to tip, or not, as a local would, rather than exporting what we would do at home. A bit of online research (avoiding articles aimed at tourists) about the country in question usually provides the answer. 

[miscstuff1]

On Viking Ocean, is it expected to tip for room service?

[KBs mum]

46 minutes ago, miscstuff1 said:

On Viking Ocean, is it expected to tip for room service?

No, no tips are expected. Most people just pay the set daily amount

[Mrs Miggins]

I am in the UK.  We tip in restaurants,  cafe’s, tradesmen taxis etc. Usually about 10%  We tip by leaving loose change when in the European countries where that is the norm. 

Nobody is offended by being given a tip.  I like to see a smile from those who have given me good service.

The views expressed on this thread by others from  the U K are not typical within my circle of friends.  Recently I wanted to buy a loaf of bread but couldn’t go into the Bakers as I had my dog.  I asked a man to buy it for me.  He did so but refused my money.  He said he had had a good day and was passing it on.  I cannot tell you how delighted I was.  

If it makes you feel good and pleases the recipient than good for you.  Spread a little happiness. 

 

 

[longterm]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Miggins said:

I am in the UK.  We tip in restaurants,  cafe’s, tradesmen taxis etc. Usually about 10%  We tip by leaving loose change when in the European countries where that is the norm. 

Nobody is offended by being given a tip.  I like to see a smile from those who have given me good service.

The views expressed on this thread by others from  the U K are not typical within my circle of friends.  Recently I wanted to buy a loaf of bread but couldn’t go into the Bakers as I had my dog.  I asked a man to buy it for me.  He did so but refused my money.  He said he had had a good day and was passing it on.  I cannot tell you how delighted I was.  

If it makes you feel good and pleases the recipient than good for you.  Spread a little happiness. 

WOW!

 

I feel totally validated; like you, I take great pleasure in making someone's day, and considering that it sometimes doesn't take much, I'll continue to do so.

 

What I *don't* do is make a big deal out of it; I try to be as inconspicuous as possible--if I need an audience for my generosity, then I'm doing it for the wrong reason.

 

In spite to what someone implied, my desire to sometimes show my appreciation for service that went above and beyond--is not inconsiderate and doesn't show "bad social graces;" rather, I do it because I like to pay it forward and share a tiny bit of my good fortune with people around me.

 

One of our favorite things is to pull in the drive-through and pay for the meal behind us; we drive off, never even see the recipients, and it always makes our day.

 

 

[Peter Lanky]

I recently went for a meal where the service was terrible. There were 6 of us. The waitress had taken my order but then brought out 5 meals but nothing for me. I was told it wasn't on the menu, though in reality it was on half the menus and not the others. I had to wait 5 minutes for an alternative. Then I needed the accessible toilet but it was occupied. I had to wait in discomfort for about 3-4 minutes though it seemed much longer. It turned out to be a member of the waiting staff using it, but when I made an appropriately scathing comment, she looked at me in a gormless way as if I had 2 heads.

I said to my my wife 'on no account leave any tips even if the others do', but in my absence she did anyway with the excuse of not wanting to upset the relatives. So the staff often get tips, not because they deserve it (they get paid a wage after all), but because some folk feel pressured into it, and that is where it is all wrong. They think tips are a right, and not a voluntary reward.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Peter Lanky

[KBs mum]

1 hour ago, Mrs Miggins said:

I am in the UK.  We tip in restaurants,  cafe’s, tradesmen taxis etc. Usually about 10%  We tip by leaving loose change when in the European countries where that is the norm. 

Nobody is offended by being given a tip.  I like to see a smile from those who have given me good service.

The views expressed on this thread by others from  the U K are not typical within my circle of friends.  Recently I wanted to buy a loaf of bread but couldn’t go into the Bakers as I had my dog.  I asked a man to buy it for me.  He did so but refused my money.  He said he had had a good day and was passing it on.  I cannot tell you how delighted I was.  

If it makes you feel good and pleases the recipient than good for you.  Spread a little happiness. 

 

 

Some of it is a regional thing, routine tipping seems more prevalent in the south, and the type of establishment. We know quite a few of the nearby establishments staff socially, some work in the pub and drink there, tipping a friend would be crass. In our local it's more usual for the landlady to buy drinks for the regulars as thanks for helping with barrels etc. Also in some places you would be tipping the owner

There is also the fact that restaurant staff are usually now fairly well paid, and often tips go into a communal jar to pay for the staff Christmas party. You won't necessarily have the same wait/bar staff throughout. Tipping is more common in more expensive

Beware the service charge added to the bill, it isn't a tip and staff may not get it. 

 

None of which means we don't tip, but we don't do so often. When we do tip we do so generously, to no fixed percentage. We start at £10 and add as required. There are circumstances where a tip is appropriate but the overseas visitor does not need to worry about them. Leaving the change is common, but that's more to avoid a pocket full of coins than to give a tip. 

 

I actually agree with what Mrs Miggins said, but we are looking at the topic from different viewpoints

Edited April 21, 2023 by KBs mum

[KBs mum]

55 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

I recently went for a meal where the service was terrible. There were 6 of us. The waitress had taken my order but then brought out 5 meals but nothing for me. I was told it wasn't on the menu, though in reality it was on half the menus and not the others. I had to wait 5 minutes for an alternative. Then I needed the accessible toilet but it was occupied. I had to wait in discomfort for about 3-4 minutes though it seemed much longer. It turned out to be a member of the waiting staff using it, but when I made an appropriately scathing comment, she looked at me in a gormless way as if I had 2 heads.

I said to my my wife 'on no account leave any tips even if the others do', but in my absence she did anyway with the excuse of not wanting to upset the relatives. So the staff often get tips, not because they deserve it (they get paid a wage after all), but because some folk feel pressured into it, and that is where it is all wrong. They think tips are a right, and not a voluntary reward.

You are more placid than me in that you merely didn't tip. I would have been requesting a discount off the whole bill for service so bad the meal was not enjoyable. My relatives would be backing me up. The staff person may have had a hidden disability but they should have been using a staff facility 

[CILCIANRQTS]

5 hours ago, KBs mum said:

No, no tips are expected. Most people just pay the set daily amount

And some tip $3-5, depending upon the size and complexity of the meal.

And no one knows whether or what they tipped, so it’s just between us and the server.

[KBs mum]

20 minutes ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

And some tip $3-5, depending upon the size and complexity of the meal.

And no one knows whether or what they tipped, so it’s just between us and the server.

The question was what is expected, the suggested or included amount is meant to avoid such uncertainty. 

None of the room service meals are complex or delivered in a 5*, or even 4* manner

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by KBs mum

[longterm]

Sometimes a server is simply having a really bad day. 
 

I’ve been there. 
 

 

[Peter Lanky]

Nothing should be 'expected' and therein lies the problem. Whatever anyone says, the jobs that are normally tipped are low skilled and quite easy to learn, yet in first world countries, other than the US it seems, they are protected by a minimum wage.

 

I then think of other far more important minimum wage jobs who are often more skilled, have a more responsible job, many of them in the health and social care industries, who nobody would ever consider tipping, and my mind tells me, 'why should people who do little more than write down an order and carry a plate, fill a glass with a drink, or make a bed and hoover up get an extra bonus?

 

When I was younger the concept of tipping in most restaurants was unknown, so the practice is only with us because it has been carefully introduced to get more money out of customers, and unfortunately is has become much more trendy to do it. Certainly nobody ever tried to 'shame' people to parting with cash.

13 hours ago, KBs mum said:

The question was what is expected, the suggested or included amount is meant to avoid such uncertainty. 

 

 

[dd57]

In the late 1930's a law was passed in the US, which is still in effect today, that the minimum wage for restaurant workers is set low because they get tips.  Restaurants only have to pay wages so that wage plus tips equals the higher minimum wage for anyone else.  But they don't necessarily do that.  When I worked in a fast food restaurant in my teens (yes, MANY years ago) I discovered this when I wondered why the pay was so low.  And no one tipped in a fast food restaurant. I believe now the restaurants have to provide evidence showing that the employees receive enough in tips to make up the difference.

 

The federal minimum wage for restaurant workers is $2.13 an hour while minimum wage for everyone else is  $7.25.  Individual states can set higher minimums.

Edited April 22, 2023 by dd57

[zalusky]

3 hours ago, dd57 said:

In the late 1930's a law was passed in the US, which is still in effect today, that the minimum wage for restaurant workers is set low because they get tips.  Restaurants only have to pay wages so that wage plus tips equals the higher minimum wage for anyone else.  But they don't necessarily do that.  When I worked in a fast food restaurant in my teens (yes, MANY years ago) I discovered this when I wondered why the pay was so low.  And no one tipped in a fast food restaurant. I believe now the restaurants have to provide evidence showing that the employees receive enough in tips to make up the difference.

 

The federal minimum wage for restaurant workers is $2.13 an hour while minimum wage for everyone else is  $7.25.  Individual states can set higher minimums.

I think the concept goes back to slavery where you get nothing unless you step it up.

 

Businesses love it because they can advertise an artificial price.

 

Lately with technology and the credit card readers you are seeing it in places you have never seen before because why not.  It creates a guilt mechanism when the reader starts throwing up the tip prompts.  You have to explicitly say no.

 

There are restaurants near me that pay their people a decent wage and do not have the tip prompts on their readers (which is a business choice) and I love to give them business.

 

The more we tip the more we enable businesses to continue this second class behavior.  These are in fact salaries and should be paid in advance like every other job.

Edited April 22, 2023 by zalusky

[KBs mum]

In the UK tips are additional to wages, not part of by law. Minimum wage is around £10. 

The service charge rip off became widespread when this law came in, and restaurants had to pay all wages out of the stated menu prices. By law add ons to stated prices are not allowed after the fact, hence the con of pretending that service charges are tips

[ericosmith]

Ok, hopefully this is a non controversial question.  I normally do not get currency in another country as a card works everywhere.  If I did want to tip someone a little extra, is there a way to do that without having to deal with getting local currency?

[KBs mum]

16 minutes ago, ericosmith said:

Ok, hopefully this is a non controversial question.  I normally do not get currency in another country as a card works everywhere.  If I did want to tip someone a little extra, is there a way to do that without having to deal with getting local currency?

Not unless there is a way to add a tip to the card payment amount and have it itemised as a tip

[ericosmith]

7 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Not unless there is a way to add a tip to the card payment amount and have it itemised as a tip

I understand that, I was thinking mostly about on the ship.  Sorry I wasn't more clear.

[KBs mum]

14 hours ago, ericosmith said:

I understand that, I was thinking mostly about on the ship.  Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Onboard currency for ocean is dollars, so that should be reasonably OK

[Peter Lanky]

Another problem in my eyes is people wanting to tip on what is specifically defined as a non-tipping cruise. Us non tippers are mainly restricted to a small number of high end cruise lines if we don't want to partake in the practice. By limiting ourselves so, we can be quite confident that the crew is being remunerated appropriately, and therefore have no need to think about staff performing somersaults in order to squeeze a little extra from the customer. But then somebody gives them extra anyway. Immediately the goalposts start to move and the mindset of both crew and cruise lines starts to think there's still the possibility of extracting even more.

 

It's only in recent years that we have had this luxury of this peace of mind, and I have been able to start cruising having avoided it previously, yet somebody still wants to do something that raises the chance of spoiling it. Just give them some verbal praise and try to leave the cash out of it please.

[KBs mum]

12 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

Another problem in my eyes is people wanting to tip on what is specifically defined as a non-tipping cruise. Us non tippers are mainly restricted to a small number of high end cruise lines if we don't want to partake in the practice. By limiting ourselves so, we can be quite confident that the crew is being remunerated appropriately, and therefore have no need to think about staff performing somersaults in order to squeeze a little extra from the customer. But then somebody gives them extra anyway. Immediately the goalposts start to move and the mindset of both crew and cruise lines starts to think there's still the possibility of extracting even more.

 

It's only in recent years that we have had this luxury of this peace of mind, and I have been able to start cruising having avoided it previously, yet somebody still wants to do something that raises the chance of spoiling it. Just give them some verbal praise and try to leave the cash out of it please.

We've never found the staff on Viking Ocean to be far enough above 'good' to warrant a tip, we do, however, thank them and mention good people or departments on the feedback form. We also criticise if we are unimpressed, but make a distinction between personal and systemic failure

[CurlerRob]

6 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

Another problem in my eyes is people wanting to tip on what is specifically defined as a non-tipping cruise.

 

Perhaps I'm not following your point, but I'm curious as to which cruise line specifically defines a cruise as non-tipping?

 

In my experience, most lines charge a standard gratuity rate (which you can usually cancel if you wish), some bury the gratuities in the cruise fare (or it's done due to geographic regulations, as I believe it is in the UK and Oz). But I've never seen a cruise line instruct pax that they should not tip ...

 

I interpreted your post as meaning that you somehow feel pressured when others choose to tip - please don't feel that way. I take the view that what others do regarding tipping (and many other things) is up to them and is totally irrelevant to how I choose to conduct my personal affairs.

 

People are different, cultures are different - life is too short to be influenced by, or critical of others choices. 🍺🥌

[Peter Lanky]

5 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

 

Perhaps I'm not following your point, but I'm curious as to which cruise line specifically defines a cruise as non-tipping?

 

In my experience, most lines charge a standard gratuity rate (which you can usually cancel if you wish), some bury the gratuities in the cruise fare (or it's done due to geographic regulations, as I believe it is in the UK and Oz). But I've never seen a cruise line instruct pax that they should not tip ...

 

I interpreted your post as meaning that you somehow feel pressured when others choose to tip - please don't feel that way. I take the view that what others do regarding tipping (and many other things) is up to them and is totally irrelevant to how I choose to conduct my personal affairs.

 

People are different, cultures are different - life is too short to be influenced by, or critical of others choices. 🍺🥌

I'll quote and example from Azamara "All gratuities are included in your cruise fare." This is not instructing people not to tip, but is informing the customer that any tips they may have wished to give are included in the brochure advertised fare. In other words they have already done their duty to the poor underpaid staff that many feel they are rewarding, as the said staff are not underpaid. The same applies to Silversea, Seabourn, Regent, and maybe a couple of others.

 

Now the whole concept of compulsory (because that's what it is) tipping on cruises started because in the past some people, predominantly from the US, started handing over money to staff either to reward them*, bribe them* or because they felt sympathy for them* (delete as appropriate). The employers saw this as an opportunity to pay them less and get customers to subsidise them instead, and enabling them to charge a lower initial price  and thus gain market advantage. This eventually morphed into a fixed amount being added to the bill, so changing it from being a voluntary gift to a supplement. As you say, you have the option of removing it, but at the risk of anything from dirty looks to food sabotage and inadequate room cleaning if the staff find out this has happened, which on many well publicised occasions it has, with the worst case being of a list of customers who have withdrawn these payments being posted on the staff notice board.

 

Now personally I feel no obligation to tip, be it on a ship, a restaurant or anywhere else, but a lot of people just pay up to keep the peace, or being pressured when with a group of friends, and they do it anyway, however bad the service is. I know from these forums how abusive some people get towards those who don't want anything to do with tipping, and will use any argument to justify it.

 

So what I am saying is that if people continue to tip extra when they have already paid, then the whole concept of 'all inclusive' is at risk from opportunist employers or greedy staff who see a good opportunity to extract even more money. Restaurants everywhere have already realised they can add a % to a meal bill or leave a blank space, but then change this to a 'service charge', whatever that means, and still expect a further contribution, which some are all to willing to give.

 

This receipt is what I would love to see everywhere, from Singapore way back in 1989, from a nation at the forefront of making tipping history.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Peter Lanky