QM2 Cancellation 23rd & 30th April

[cagefreewill]

51 minutes ago, Insights said:

So it seems all's well, that ends well, for most of the WC passengers from QV and QM onboard and a few will enjoy the coronation cruise, which nobody I know, who tried to get on it, could, as it sold out in a matter of minutes... Nobody does a cruise like Cunard, unique in a quirky traditional British way from a Time Gone Bye... I like all cruises lines and sailed with most many times (and still do) but Cunard will always be my choice for cruises more than two weeks.. I hope you all enjoy future sailing on your ship of choice.😇 

Cunard certainly does offer a memorable time.  I doubt that I’ll ever forget this experience.  

[exlondoner]

9 minutes ago, cagefreewill said:

Cunard certainly does offer a memorable time.  I doubt that I’ll ever forget this experience.  

You’ll probably be happier if you can, vexing as it is.

[exlondoner]

1 hour ago, Insights said:

So it seems all's well, that ends well, for most of the WC passengers from QV and QM onboard and a few will enjoy the coronation cruise, which nobody I know, who tried to get on it, could, as it sold out in a matter of minutes... Nobody does a cruise like Cunard, unique in a quirky traditional British way from a Time Gone Bye... I like all cruises lines and sailed with most many times (and still do) but Cunard will always be my choice for cruises more than two weeks.. I hope you all enjoy future sailing on your ship of choice.😇 

 

Interestingly, coming from the UK, I don’t find it particularly British, more mid-Atlantic.

[cagefreewill]

35 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

You’ll probably be happier if you can, vexing as it is.

Yeah well , the Concorde Room at LHR has several bottles of champagne on ice that are helping me forget at the moment.  So there we are. 

[NE John]

11 hours ago, cagefreewill said:

Looks like my refund was processed overnight as well.  I suppose that I’ll have to make a deposit to secure the re-booking that I made for April 2025.  I typically pay full balance when booking a cruise because of the additional protection that my credit card offers, but I think for this one I will wait until last possible minute.  I had no idea that Carnival was in such financial trouble until pointed out by several of you and now I’m worried whether  Cunard will even be around in two years.  I guess we shall see.  Plan for the worst and hope for the best.  LOL!

Cunard, from these posts I’ve read, is the most profitable brand in the Carnival Corp line-up. 

 

Hopefully lots of pent-up demand (post-lockdowns) will bring in more customers to the Carnival brand to keep it afloat. Add Millennials wanting the cruising experience too. 

[exlondoner]

2 minutes ago, cagefreewill said:

Yeah well , the Concorde Room at LHR has several bottles of champagne on ice that are helping me forget at the moment.  So there we are. 

Very wise move. I thought Concorde didn’t exist any more.

[Underwatr]

22 hours ago, vjmatty said:

Once again, you can make plans for the worst and still be frustrated or disappointed that the worst actually happens. These statements really aren’t helpful. 

I'm not affected by this particular incident but like many US residents I "plan for the worst" by buying comprehensive trip insurance, typically shopping for policies on InsureMyTrip. I do carefully read the detail of the policies before purchasing and try to anticipate what likely events would or would not be covered by a given policy
Out of curiosity I looked back over my travel insurance policies over the past few years to see how well I would have been covered for this unusual event had I arrived in Southampton only to discover that I needed to find my own way back to New York. One policy, sold by CSA, would appear to have covered me. Its Trip Interruption paragraphs say it would cover "Common Carrier delays and/or cancellations resulting from adverse weather, mechanical breakdown of the aircraft, ship, boat or motor coach that you were scheduled to travel on, or organized labor strikes that affect public transportation;." Other policies, such as that sold by Nationwide, would only cover the travel supplier's Bankruptcy or Default, the latter defined as "a material failure or inability to provide contracted services due to financial insolvency."

I'd say you can try to make plans for the worst, but the worst might entail outcomes you didn't expect you'd have to plan for.

[eroller]

1 minute ago, NE John said:

Cunard, from these posts I’ve read, is the most profitable brand in the Carnival Corp line-up. 

 

Hopefully lots of pent-up demand (post-lockdowns) will bring in more customers to the Carnival brand to keep it afloat. Add Millennials wanting the cruising experience too. 

 

Cunard the most profitable?  Highly unlikely. I believe Carnival Cruise Line by far is the most profitable brand in the Carnival Corp portfolio.  I’m willing to bet Cunard isn’t even in the top three.  The best performing brands are the ones that receive the most large capital expenditures (ie new ships).  

[cagefreewill]

6 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Very wise move. I thought Concorde didn’t exist any more.

Well you know how the British are when it comes to tradition.  The Concorde Room at LHR was maintained for First Class passengers traveling internationally.  

[Victoria2]

27 minutes ago, cagefreewill said:

Well you know how the British are when it comes to tradition.  The Concorde Room at LHR was maintained for First Class passengers traveling internationally.  

The downside though is flying BA!😄

 

Have a safe flight and I'm sorry you were caught up in what has been a confusing time.

[Windsurfboy]

The Concorde room didn't exist in the days of Concorde, just called first class lounge in T4.  Had to drink in lounge, they had some very exceptionalwines on Concorde but 40000ft did help palate

 

Concorde room is relatively new,  just for first class and gold guest list (very top level of gold)

[lhsail]

We have regrouped and are ready to fly to Paris on Tuesday to take the rest of our trip. I don’t know if we would have gone through making changes again, but it would have been nice if those of us impacted by the cancellations would have had a 24 hour window to book the Coronation cruise. Realize Cunard wanted as big a customer base as possible as soon as possible. 

[exlondoner]

40 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

The Concorde room didn't exist in the days of Concorde, just called first class lounge in T4.  Had to drink in lounge, they had some very exceptionalwines on Concorde but 40000ft did help palate

 

Concorde room is relatively new,  just for first class and gold guest list (very top level of gold)

The Concorde waiting place was separate from the first class lounge, as far as I remember. Concorde flew nearer 60,000 feet, even worse for the palate.

[NE John]

3 hours ago, eroller said:

 

Cunard the most profitable?  Highly unlikely. I believe Carnival Cruise Line by far is the most profitable brand in the Carnival Corp portfolio.  I’m willing to bet Cunard isn’t even in the top three.  The best performing brands are the ones that receive the most large capital expenditures (ie new ships).  

Interesting points. 
Someone posted on one of these boards that they heard Cunard is most profitable brand of Carnival. I very much respect @Victoria2 request to provide sources before stating a fact/opinion, etc. 

So…being a rainy day…I went thru Carnival’s quarterly report 10-k and did not see a breakdown of Revenues, profits, losses, etc per each brand; all data is lumped together.
Note, other statements may break down lines #’s but I didn’t go into those other reports as now can’t see too straight after pouring through a 144 page document!

Overall, a depressing read after Covid ravaged that industry. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, lhsail said:

We have regrouped and are ready to fly to Paris on Tuesday to take the rest of our trip. I don’t know if we would have gone through making changes again, but it would have been nice if those of us impacted by the cancellations would have had a 24 hour window to book the Coronation cruise. Realize Cunard wanted as big a customer base as possible as soon as possible. 

 

Good for you, finding a replacement holiday. "Paris is always a good idea." (Sabrina)

 

I agree that Cunard should have given people on the cancelled crossing first opportunity to book the Coronation cruise. You're probably right that they were looking to grab new customers, but they need to think about keeping the ones they already have. 

[cagefreewill]

7 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

The downside though is flying BA!😄

 

Have a safe flight and I'm sorry you were caught up in what has been a confusing time.

Yes, well BA is no Emirates or Cathay Pacific but they did take off when they said they would and for us to our destination so they’re already ahead of Cunard in that regard.  

[eroller]

5 hours ago, NE John said:

Interesting points. 
Someone posted on one of these boards that they heard Cunard is most profitable brand of Carnival. I very much respect @Victoria2 request to provide sources before stating a fact/opinion, etc. 

So…being a rainy day…I went thru Carnival’s quarterly report 10-k and did not see a breakdown of Revenues, profits, losses, etc per each brand; all data is lumped together.
Note, other statements may break down lines #’s but I didn’t go into those other reports as now can’t see too straight after pouring through a 144 page document!

Overall, a depressing read after Covid ravaged that industry. 

 

 

Sounds like you got a taste of what the cruise industry has been facing.  It's not pretty and they still have a long way to go.  Carnival Corp has yet to post a profitable quarter since COVID began.  Hopefully that trend will finally reverse with the next quarter, but they have a ton of debt to pay down like most cruise lines.  They are not alone and RCG (Royal Caribbean Group) and NCLH (Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings) are all facing the same challenges.  The one standout seems to be MSC.  They are privately owned so they don't report earnings, but they are probably the fasted growing cruise line and they have deep pockets thanks to the MSC cargo operation, which did very well during COVID and is absolutely huge.

 

Carnival Corp has never reported financial results of individual brands.  I wish they would.  Even so you can read between the lines and see which brands are performing best.  Generally Carnival Cruise Lines has been the powerhouse of the corporation.  That is how is all began and the profitability of Carnival Cruise Lines enabled the purchase of all the other brands (HAL, Princess, P&O, AIDA, Cunard, Seabourn).  Post-COVID Carnival Cruise Lines has also been the brand high achiever.  In fact the corporation is rushing to transfer ships to Carnival from the most under-performing brand, Costa.  Costa was highly leveraged in China which has proven to be a big mistake.  The Costa ships slated for China are now being transferred to Carnival Cruise Lines post haste.  

 

All the cruise companies have scaled back growth and most have shed older tonnage during COVID.  This means a leaner more efficient operation moving forward.  Hopefully that along with higher yields as cruising once again gains popularity will finally see the industry turn a corner.  Much to everyone's surprise the air industry has done a remarkable turnaround post-COVID with most airlines fully recovered and reaching pre-COVID 2019 yields and capacity levels.  The cruise lines have some catching up to do.  Granted I think they were hardest hit during COVID, being ground zero for the virus and all operations coming to a halt.   

Edited April 30, 2023 by eroller

[buchanan101]

The low cost airlines have recovered a bit better than legacy flag carriers as business travel still not back to 2019 levels. 

[buchanan101]

4 hours ago, cagefreewill said:

Yes, well BA is no Emirates or Cathay Pacific but they did take off when they said they would and for us to our destination so they’re already ahead of Cunard in that regard.  

I have no problem with BA. Their new Club Suites are rather good and we fly all over Europe in Club Europe- very good value using Avios. Avoid their old Club set up long distance. 

[Victoria2]

41 minutes ago, buchanan101 said:

I have no problem with BA. Their new Club Suites are rather good and we fly all over Europe in Club Europe- very good value using Avios. Avoid their old Club set up long distance. 

A holiday was put in peril due to a BA strike so it was sort of our 'Cunard moment'. Consequently, not tried BA, First or Business since, as we don't need the angst of will they/won't they fly.

[NE John]

9 hours ago, eroller said:

 

 

Sounds like you got a taste of what the cruise industry has been facing.  It's not pretty and they still have a long way to go.  Carnival Corp has yet to post a profitable quarter since COVID began.  Hopefully that trend will finally reverse with the next quarter, but they have a ton of debt to pay down like most cruise lines.  They are not alone and RCG (Royal Caribbean Group) and NCLH (Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings) are all facing the same challenges.  The one standout seems to be MSC.  They are privately owned so they don't report earnings, but they are probably the fasted growing cruise line and they have deep pockets thanks to the MSC cargo operation, which did very well during COVID and is absolutely huge.

 

Carnival Corp has never reported financial results of individual brands.  I wish they would.  Even so you can read between the lines and see which brands are performing best.  Generally Carnival Cruise Lines has been the powerhouse of the corporation.  That is how is all began and the profitability of Carnival Cruise Lines enabled the purchase of all the other brands (HAL, Princess, P&O, AIDA, Cunard, Seabourn).  Post-COVID Carnival Cruise Lines has also been the brand high achiever.  In fact the corporation is rushing to transfer ships to Carnival from the most under-performing brand, Costa.  Costa was highly leveraged in China which has proven to be a big mistake.  The Costa ships slated for China are now being transferred to Carnival Cruise Lines post haste.  

 

All the cruise companies have scaled back growth and most have shed older tonnage during COVID.  This means a leaner more efficient operation moving forward.  Hopefully that along with higher yields as cruising once again gains popularity will finally see the industry turn a corner.  Much to everyone's surprise the air industry has done a remarkable turnaround post-COVID with most airlines fully recovered and reaching pre-COVID 2019 yields and capacity levels.  The cruise lines have some catching up to do.  Granted I think they were hardest hit during COVID, being ground zero for the virus and all operations coming to a halt.   

Awesome feedback. I read from major brokerage house research that Carnival is losing pier space to others - - maybe MSC. 
 

Airlines received govt Covid assistance and I’m not sure how much cruise lines received, if any. That smarts!

[cagefreewill]

17 minutes ago, NE John said:

Awesome feedback. I read from major brokerage house research that Carnival is losing pier space to others - - maybe MSC. 
 

Airlines received govt Covid assistance and I’m not sure how much cruise lines received, if any. That smarts!

As I understand it, the cruise lines did not receive federal COVID relief funds because they’re technically not US based corporations.  Carnival is incorporated in Panama in order to avoid paying US federal taxes thus making them ineligible for a “bail out”.  

[eroller]

1 hour ago, cagefreewill said:

As I understand it, the cruise lines did not receive federal COVID relief funds because they’re technically not US based corporations.  Carnival is incorporated in Panama in order to avoid paying US federal taxes thus making them ineligible for a “bail out”.  

 

Correct, and it’s a choice.  They register ships under a FOC (flag of convenience) and incorporate offshore all to avoid taxes, labor laws, minimum wages, etc. So in a way they get a bailout year round and have advantages that corporations incorporated in the US don’t.  No government bailouts for them and with good reason IMO.  
 

Also another major difference is most airlines are a form of public transportation. A requirement to get from point A to point B.  No one has to take a pleasure cruise.  It’s purely discretionary.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by eroller

[BigAl94]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:58 AM, Saab4444 said:

No yard in the UK has a dry dock facility suitable for QM2. This is why they usually go to Germany or the Netherlands.

There is at least one dry dock in UK capable of taking QM2 and indeed much larger. Harland & Wolff in Belfast had Queen Victoria in for maintenance last year. QM2 is 1132 ft, dock is 1825ft 

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/queen-victoria-cruise-ship-arrives-into-belfast-harbour-for-dry-dock-operations/41594449.html

Edited April 30, 2023 by BigAl94

[eroller]

7 hours ago, buchanan101 said:

The low cost airlines have recovered a bit better than legacy flag carriers as business travel still not back to 2019 levels. 

 

Depends on the airline I suppose.  Have a look at legacy carrier Delta in the US.  I believe the most profitable in the world with the highest market cap.  It would be beyond 2019 profit and capacity levels were it not for a pilot shortage. It is garnering the highest yields in its entire history. Also many airlines can’t rebuild their fleets fast enough after shedding entire fleet types during COVID.  They never expected such a quick recovery and are dealing with a situation where demand exceeds capacity.  I suppose it’s not a bad place to be in.  Sure beats the other way around.