Why do you think cruising isn’t as successful in Australia as it should be?

[Ozwoody]

3 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Princess used to do that when we first started cruising end of 2014. They did Top End cruises Sydney/Brisbane to Fremantle and vice-versa (we did one of those in 2015 on Dawn) and the occasional PNG cruise (we did one Sept 2016 on Sun). They were very popular. However they stopped doing that in 2017, I think. Such a shame.

 

Yes I rather liked the Top End cruises, I think that part of the world could do with more attention for cruising.

[MMDown Under]

14 hours ago, harbourside said:

I  am booked on Viking Venus January 2025 for there first Round Australia cruise (which includes Bali).

Sydney to Sydney 32 days.  Looking forward to this.  Scenic Eclipse 11 will also be in our waters 2024/2025.   These are more expensive cruise lines, but it does add options to the mass market lines.

The smaller ships usually offer more ports as well as longer stays in ports.  Would be interested on your comments on Viking.  They must believe in the future of small ships, as they built a fleet of them.

[MMDown Under]

16 hours ago, Ozwoody said:

Yes I rather liked the Top End cruises, I think that part of the world could do with more attention for cruising.

It receives a lot of coverage by small and some medium adventure ships. 

[MMDown Under]

On 5/5/2023 at 6:46 PM, OzKiwiJJ said:

I'd certainly be interested in that. It would probably take three weeks or so, with quite a few sea days so perfect in my eyes. But...

 

It's mostly us retirees who can do the longer cruises. Seven day cruises are very popular because they don't use up too much of people's holiday time. 12-14 day cruises are also popular and you really can't do NZ properly in less.

 

But longer than 14 days and the market lessens. Many of us retirees have already done all the usual itineraries, often more than once. Now I don't mind the ship as the destination as long as a) the weather is good and warm and b) it's a Princess ship with the Sanctuary and I manage to get a booking there.

I would love to cruise to Darwin annually, but cruising regularly is not available, so I fly there.  Last year, I cruised with Coral Expeditions, on a small ship, to Darwin, which was redeployed because WA closed their borders due to the pandemic.  It was a wonderful cruise from Cairns, with stops at Cooktown, Lizard Island, an island which sold pearls and pearl shell ornaments, an island with its own Robinson Crusoe and my favourite island, which supported fishing charters. 

 

[harbourside]

3 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

The smaller ships usually offer more ports as well as longer stays in ports.  Would be interested on your comments on Viking.  They must believe in the future of small ships, as they built a fleet of them.

I have been on 2 Viking Cruises and enjoyed them both.  Having a tour in each port and wine and beer included at lunch and dinner is good, and the bedrooms are lovely, all having a balcony as standard. We like the smaller ships as previously only done River cruises with APT  which where excellent.

Lots of Australians on Viking.  It fills a gap in the market.   We are getting too old for any more long flights to Europe, so now look for interesting cruises close to home (New Zealand).  Australia of course would be the main cruising country for us. 

[MMDown Under]

23 minutes ago, harbourside said:

I have been on 2 Viking Cruises and enjoyed them both.  Having a tour in each port and wine and beer included at lunch and dinner is good, and the bedrooms are lovely, all having a balcony as standard. We like the smaller ships as previously only done River cruises with APT  which where excellent.

Lots of Australians on Viking.  It fills a gap in the market.   We are getting too old for any more long flights to Europe, so now look for interesting cruises close to home (New Zealand).  Australia of course would be the main cruising country for us. 

Thank you.  I’m pleased you enjoyed your cruises with Viking.  They sounded appealing to me.  I extended my long haul flying by flying business class so have one long flight to UK left in me!

[sciencewonk]

I was born and raised in the US (California), but live in Australia (NSW), so I think I have a unique perspective of the differences between the two countries and why it might skew Aussies away from cruising.

 

Americans value convenience and price for their vacations.  Whatever is cheapest for the least amount of effort.  Cruising fits that criteria.  It's inexpensive and once you're on the ship you are waited on hand and foot.

 

Aussies prefer a DIY holiday.  They love caravaning.  They book hotels with kitchens and bring their own food with them.  Cruising doesn't match this criteria.

 

There's also the pricing structure cruise lines use.  If I book a cruise using a US travel agent and a US credit card, I get a better price than if I used an Australian travel agent and Australian credit card for the same cruise.

 

The lack of destinations has been discussed already and I generally agree that there are more options available in North America and Europe.

[MMDown Under]

20 minutes ago, sciencewonk said:

I was born and raised in the US (California), but live in Australia (NSW), so I think I have a unique perspective of the differences between the two countries and why it might skew Aussies away from cruising.

 

Americans value convenience and price for their vacations.  Whatever is cheapest for the least amount of effort.  Cruising fits that criteria.  It's inexpensive and once you're on the ship you are waited on hand and foot.

 

Aussies prefer a DIY holiday.  They love caravaning.  They book hotels with kitchens and bring their own food with them.  Cruising doesn't match this criteria.

 

There's also the pricing structure cruise lines use.  If I book a cruise using a US travel agent and a US credit card, I get a better price than if I used an Australian travel agent and Australian credit card for the same cruise.

 

The lack of destinations has been discussed already and I generally agree that there are more options available in North America and Europe.

Yes I agree. I am currently on holidays for 17 days on the Sunshine Coast.  I bring all my own linen, towels etc and some basic food supplies. however, the accommodation company will be providing linen from August so there must now be a demand for that service.

When my daughter lived in London we travelled together annually.  She always paid less than I did for insurance also cruises than if I bought it in Australia.  

 

[harbourside]

58 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

Thank you.  I’m pleased you enjoyed your cruises with Viking.  They sounded appealing to me.  I extended my long haul flying by flying business class so have one long flight to UK left in me!

We did start flying Business Class to Europe and Premium Economy for shorter trips, but after our last major cruise to South America got cancelled, decided we were now past the long flights, and use the money saved on Business class fares, for more expensive trips close to home, hence booking the 32 day trip around Australia with Viking.  Will look at Scenic Eclipse 11, which will be cruising Australia and New Zealand.

[Ozwoody]

I like the idea of smaller ships, and I'm considering them.

however they tend to be more expensive per day, )yes I know the alcohol is included in them, but we're not big drinkers.) and then when you add the airfares to and from Cairns etc, it starts to get very expensive.

Not to mention I'm not what you would call a keen flier, not even remotely.🥺

I will if I have too, and bugger its looking more and more I will have too.😂

 

[MMDown Under]

8 minutes ago, Ozwoody said:

I like the idea of smaller ships, and I'm considering them.

however they tend to be more expensive per day, )yes I know the alcohol is included in them, but we're not big drinkers.) and then when you add the airfares to and from Cairns etc, it starts to get very expensive.

Not to mention I'm not what you would call a keen flier, not even remotely.🥺

I will if I have too, and bugger its looking more and more I will have too.😂

 

Have you considered Coral Expeditions, an excellent small ship coy based in Cairns.  You can put your name down for Standby if you are willing to cruise at short notice. 

[MMDown Under]

40 minutes ago, harbourside said:

We did start flying Business Class to Europe and Premium Economy for shorter trips, but after our last major cruise to South America got cancelled, decided we were now past the long flights, and use the money saved on Business class fares, for more expensive trips close to home, hence booking the 32 day trip around Australia with Viking.  Will look at Scenic Eclipse 11, which will be cruising Australia and New Zealand.

Good idea. Bon Voyage!   I knew someone who did that after he aged and said his around Australia cruise was his best ever.  I changed my bookings in advance when MSC changed a cruise to USA from Genoa Italy to departing Germany. It was a shock to me to realise, as I always booked flights and accommodation with my cruises, I would have been greatly inconvenienced.  Now I mainly book after final payment!

[Over from NZ]

I think it's more than successful enough. Have to be careful what you wish for. Over in NZ.. there's a large part of the population that would prefer to see less cruise-ships (and they're a climate-change nightmare too). 

[MMDown Under]

It is my opinion.

 

If it is someone else’s opinion, I always put the link.

[gbenjo]

On 5/5/2023 at 1:13 PM, MMDown Under said:

Why do you think cruising isn’t as successful in Australia as it should be?

AFTER ALL- 

Australia is an island

Australians and Kiwis are great adventurous travellers 

Australians have generous leave entitlements (.recreation and long service leave)

 

WHY - 

Australians are not the focus of cruise planning in Australia

Cruising here is to fit in with the northern winter not to complement our climate

Some cruiselines charge in US$ when the 

Aussie dollar is weak

Some cruise lines spend too little time in port

etc.

 

what do you think?

How are you measuring success? The cruise industry has just come out of two or more  years of covid and restrictions ( in Australia at least) are still having an affect. There will always be the “tyranny of distance” and the limited destinations to contend with, not to mention ( in Sydney at least) a lack of facilities to accomodate ships. There would be very few “ vacancies” for extra ships on the Sydney Ports cruise schedule for the upcoming cruise season. Last season was a bit of a toe in the water scenario for cruise lines and the fact that  next season,Royal is bringing an extra ship, and for the first time,Disney have a full season booked here as has Virgin,  would indicate they see potential and growth  ( = success) in the market. Cruise lines are in the business of making money and would not be here if they did not  believe being here would  be “ successful”. Individuals all want something different from a cruise, all the cruise lines can do is to try and provide for the “ majority”  ( minorities have to much influence these days  anyway😡) 

[MMDown Under]

19 minutes ago, gbenjo said:

How are you measuring success? The cruise industry has just come out of two or more  years of covid and restrictions ( in Australia at least) are still having an affect. There will always be the “tyranny of distance” and the limited destinations to contend with, not to mention ( in Sydney at least) a lack of facilities to accomodate ships. There would be very few “ vacancies” for extra ships on the Sydney Ports cruise schedule for the upcoming cruise season. Last season was a bit of a toe in the water scenario for cruise lines and the fact that  next season,Royal is bringing an extra ship, and for the first time,Disney have a full season booked here as has Virgin,  would indicate they see potential and growth  ( = success) in the market. Cruise lines are in the business of making money and would not be here if they did not  believe being here would  be “ successful”. Individuals all want something different from a cruise, all the cruise lines can do is to try and provide for the “ majority”  ( minorities have to much influence these days  anyway😡) 

This is just my personal opinion.  I research cruising overseas, as well as in Australia/NZ.

Success for me is when a cruise excites me so much, I immediately research the itinerary, reviews, etc.  The last one which excited

 me was a small coy in NZ, so I subscribed!

I didn’t mean to offend anyone just share my disappointment at what is currently on offer in Australia.  Obviously I’m not part of the majority, but am entitled to my opinion.

 

[gbenjo]

16 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

This is just my personal opinion.  I research cruising overseas, as well as in Australia/NZ.

Success for me is when a cruise excites me so much, I immediately research the itinerary, reviews, etc.  The last one which excited

 me was a small coy in NZ, so I subscribed!

I didn’t mean to offend anyone just share my disappointment at what is currently on offer in Australia.  Obviously I’m not part of the majority, but am entitled to my opinion.

 

All good, you have not offended anyone. we are all entitled to an opinion and no one is necessarily  right or wrong. I guess I look at “ success” as an industry thing whereas you are looking at it from a personal aspect. Who was it that said, you can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but never all of the people all of the time.  Anyway, my idea of “ success” means I will be working a lot more days next season.  😂😂😂😂

[sherri3802]

I don't know that it is not successful.

I first went on a cruise in 2009 and I think there were only 2 cruise lines to choose from, P&O or Princess and about 4 ships between them. Something like that.

 

Since then, I have noticed there are new cruise lines and more ships.

 

I think it is popular here but we haven't the big population base of some other regions.

 

To me, some of the problems with cruising here are that there aren't enough different destinations. Maybe we need a few more big ports or even medium ports the ships can tender to.

 

I'm not a fan of too many sea days. I am just not into trivia or karaoke that much, the ship lines need to offer a lot more-movies in the theatre during the day & just not up on the outside screen would be a start.

 

I'd be all for longer port visits. If I ever go on a cruise again, I'll be looking carefully at the number of destinations and quite a few cruises to eg sth pacific, have cut down the stops to 2 or 3 on cruises that last 7-10 days. They could do better.

 

I would be willing to go on a cruise that offered fewer destinations but stopped overnight at a couple. The trouble with a lot of cruises is the limited time in port. If I cruised eg to Darwin, I'd love a couple of days there.

Stopping longer at a limited number of destinations could be our point of difference to overseas cruises. I'm sure a lot of passengers would like the chance to see places in more depth.

 

 

[gbenjo]

22 minutes ago, sherri3802 said:

I don't know that it is not successful.

I first went on a cruise in 2009 and I think there were only 2 cruise lines to choose from, P&O or Princess and about 4 ships between them. Something like that.

 

Since then, I have noticed there are new cruise lines and more ships.

 

I think it is popular here but we haven't the big population base of some other regions.

 

To me, some of the problems with cruising here are that there aren't enough different destinations. Maybe we need a few more big ports or even medium ports the ships can tender to.

 

I'm not a fan of too many sea days. I am just not into trivia or karaoke that much, the ship lines need to offer a lot more-movies in the theatre during the day & just not up on the outside screen would be a start.

 

I'd be all for longer port visits. If I ever go on a cruise again, I'll be looking carefully at the number of destinations and quite a few cruises to eg sth pacific, have cut down the stops to 2 or 3 on cruises that last 7-10 days. They could do better.

 

I would be willing to go on a cruise that offered fewer destinations but stopped overnight at a couple. The trouble with a lot of cruises is the limited time in port. If I cruised eg to Darwin, I'd love a couple of days there.

Stopping longer at a limited number of destinations could be our point of difference to overseas cruises. I'm sure a lot of passengers would like the chance to see places in more depth.

 

 

I think you would find that longer stays in a port would mean higher costs, ie. port fees ( the longer in port the more they pay) and fuel costs as the ship would need to go faster to make up the extra time spent  in port, unless they make the cruise longer which would also mean a higher cost to the guest for extra days. A cruise is, after all, a cruise,  not a  transport mode between  different destinations, guests don't spend money on the ship if they are not on it.

Edited May 28, 2023 by gbenjo

[sherri3802]

7 minutes ago, gbenjo said:

I think you would find that longer stays in a port would mean higher costs, ie. port fees ( the longer in port the more they pay) and fuel costs as the ship would need to go faster to make up the extra time spent  in port, unless they make the cruise longer which would also mean a higher cost to the guest for extra days. A cruise is, after all, a cruise,  not a  transport mode between  different destinations, guests don't spend money on the ship if they are not on it.

 I understand that while passengers are off the ship, they are not spending money onboard. But from what I have seen, a good part of spending is on various drinks during the day and as quite a few people have drink packages, that could amount to a saving for the cruise line. I also think even with an overnight stop, most people would return to the ship for their evening meal or that's what I found happened when we had an overnight stay in Dunedin one time.

 

I am not sure about what you mean about the ship having to go faster to make up extra time spent in port. Probably I didn't explain myself well. What I meant was for example, if a cruise was for 7 days, it could cut down on the number of ports if it stayed longer in those ports. Maybe just 2 ports instead of 3. In that sense, I think the costs could even out. Higher port cost but less sailing.

 

Maybe I am in the minority here but I actually do think of a cruise as a mode of transport between different destinations. Sure, the cruise itself is also part of the holiday experience but the destinations are also an important part. To me, anyway.

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, MMDown Under said:

This is just my personal opinion.  I research cruising overseas, as well as in Australia/NZ.

Success for me is when a cruise excites me so much, I immediately research the itinerary, reviews, etc.  The last one which excited

 me was a small coy in NZ, so I subscribed!

I didn’t mean to offend anyone just share my disappointment at what is currently on offer in Australia.  Obviously I’m not part of the majority, but am entitled to my opinion.

 

I think you just used the wrong word, especially since you're measuring success by your interest in the cruises offered. Nothing wrong with that but it's not what is normally thought of as a measure of success.

 

I think we'll be moving into that "unsuccessful" category in another couple of years, especially since most of the ships Princess is bringing here don't interest us at all, plus we've done most of the itineraries now. And the small cruise lines are too expensive usually. 

 

 

[Ondine]

That report quoted by Cruise Industry was written in October 2020.  We didn't even start sailing again until June 2022 so it is really useless to compare with now and future projections.

 

As for the numbers from each city - well we can only sail if they give us ships so these numbers are a pretty useless comparison for anyone who does not understand Australia and its distances to try to work out how popular cruising is.  How can you compare Brisbane/Sydney who have ships almost year round to Perth/Adelaide in particular and Melbourne who only have very limited sailings.

 

I think it will take a few years for cruising to get back to anything normal.  You cannot compare Australia with the USA.

[Ozwoody]

18 hours ago, gbenjo said:

I think you would find that longer stays in a port would mean higher costs, ie. port fees ( the longer in port the more they pay) and fuel costs as the ship would need to go faster to make up the extra time spent  in port, unless they make the cruise longer which would also mean a higher cost to the guest for extra days. A cruise is, after all, a cruise,  not a  transport mode between  different destinations, guests don't spend money on the ship if they are not on it.

Maybe it would cost more due to port fee's etc, but fuel cost are expensive too? 

I with sherri3802 in that I would like more overnight/2 day, stays.

And yes the cruise is a form of transport between different destinations, else why are you on the cruise to various ports?😁

I like sea days, but I also like to spend some time in ports to truly experience the destinations, especially the more exotic from our usual environment.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Ozwoody

[icat2000]

Lack of variety in itineraries. There only so many times that a person can cruise the same destinations before they start looking for new adventures.

[losfp]

I don't know that it's that unsuccessful from an industry point of view to be honest. Considering the population here, distance to travel for overseas guests, lack of nearby ports etc, the industry appears to be going ok. There's a shipload of people leaving every day out of sydney in summer.

 

Now, as for INTERESTING cruises out of Australia... that's tougher. There's not a lot of options nearby so you either cruise up and down the east coast, or you go up to the south pacific islands - but because it takes 2 days to get there from Sydney, it's all just sea days and so-so ports.

 

Cruises are massive out of Florida because there's a multitude of options within a day's sail so you can have a variety of itineraries from 3 day to 7 day.

 

We've done 8 cruises and only half of them have been out of Australia, I just find the overseas itineraries more interesting. After our two Europe cruises in October, our local cruise count will be 4/10.