Why do you think cruising isn’t as successful in Australia as it should be?

[MMDown Under]

Why do you think cruising isn’t as successful in Australia as it should be?

AFTER ALL- 

Australia is an island

Australians and Kiwis are great adventurous travellers 

Australians have generous leave entitlements (.recreation and long service leave)

 

WHY - 

Australians are not the focus of cruise planning in Australia

Cruising here is to fit in with the northern winter not to complement our climate

Some cruiselines charge in US$ when the 

Aussie dollar is weak

Some cruise lines spend too little time in port

etc.

 

what do you think?

[reeves35]

I don't think it is correct to say cruising is unsuccessful in Australia.  In fact CLIA announced this week that the cruising recovery in Australia is amongst the strongest in the world https://www.cruising.org.au/ccms.r?Pageid=6022&tenid=CLIA&DispMode=goto|10514

 

Of course, there are limiting issues but they are really down to 3 things:

• Even when combined Australia and NZ have a fairly small population. Our ~30M is a long way short of North America's ~370M or western Europe's ~200M.  This means bank for buck, it is easier for the cruiselines to make money with new large ships in the Caribbean or the Med.
• We are a long way from just about everywhere.  For a foreigner to come to this region involves a long and expensive flight.  Europeans can get to the Caribbean or New Yorkers to the Med in less time than it takes a Singaporean to get to Sydney.  Even our shortest 7 night South Pacific cruises from Sydney require 4 seadays.   
• Our small population and remote location means we have very few year round cruising options.  It is basically New Caledonia/Vanuatu or North Queensland.  Anything else is seasonal or too far away.  Most of us will have seen Youtubes of the English all-year P&O ships doing cold weather cruising to Germany and The Netherlands and it looks miserable even on a huge ship like Iona or Britannia.  I'm pretty sure we don't want to copy that.

 

 

 

 

[buchhalm]

If you are talking about cruising FROM Australia, then the issue that I am having is the very limited selection of destinations. 

Especially if you have limited time.

Its basically to the Eastern Territory (aka New Zealand) or up and down the coast between Sydnsy and Queensland.

[OzKiwiJJ]

I wouldn't say it was unsuccessful at all. More that it is limited - by population, by distance for overseas travellers to come to cruise here, by limited port options for shorter cruises due to the size of Australia, and by Australia's main ports being a long way from international ports.

[OzKiwiJJ]

The fact that three of our regular cruise lines - Princess, Carnival, and Royal Caribbean are now operating much larger ships than they did a few years ago, and that more cruise lines are coming here for at least a short time during our season, points to it being very successful.

[MMDown Under]

2 hours ago, buchhalm said:

If you are talking about cruising FROM Australia, then the issue that I am having is the very limited selection of destinations. 

Especially if you have limited time.

Its basically to the Eastern Territory (aka New Zealand) or up and down the coast between Sydnsy and Queensland.

Yes, cruising from Australia and NZ.

I can, and do, cruise often from overseas, so know what we are missing in selection. 

[MMDown Under]

Just now, MMDown Under said:

Yes, cruising from Australia and NZ.

I can, and do, cruise often from overseas, so know what we are missing in selection. 

I should have clarified my comments didn't refer to small ships which are world class, based in Cairns.

[MMDown Under]

2 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

I wouldn't say it was unsuccessful at all. More that it is limited - by population, by distance for overseas travellers to come to cruise here, by limited port options for shorter cruises due to the size of Australia, and by Australia's main ports being a long way from international ports.

Yes I agree limited.  Maybe I should have said "desirable".  I used to stop over on South Pacific islands annually en route to USA or UK.  Planning these visits always excited me, with the journey being as enjoyable as the destination.  I don't feel that way when I consider most cruises on offer in Australia or not on offer north during our winter.  

[lyndarra]

The inference I got from the topic was not that cruising is unsuccessful but, that how could it be more successful?

As mentioned, we are limited in ports so, to be more successful we would need more people from overseas, due to our small home population, visiting our regions' ports.

Some issues affecting  travel by overseas visitors are, IMO;

Post COVID air transport cost increases - that is certainly working both ways - combined with distance

Lack of disposable income due to current financial conditions internationally - inflation and interest rates,

and

Security uncertainty due to present and possibly, future global conflicts i.e. various wars and political strife.

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by lyndarra

[arxcards]

+1 here too.

 

Per capita at the time of the big pause, there were more Aussies cruising than any other nationality. It is also our rite of passage to travel the world, and not just look at local itineraries. If CLIA is saying we are recovering as good as any, then I say stats can be anything, but I would generally say we had a good first season back.

 

Growth opportunities are there, but not fully realised yet. At the time of the shutdown Brisbane had one fulltime ship and one part time ship. This season had seen 2 full time and 2 part time, and more than double the capacity when you look at ship sizes. Amongst that, Aussie based Carnival ships are now open to the world for booking, and lots of Carnival loyal cruisers are looking at Oz for the first time. Not a big deal, well they are the biggest fleet and the biggest passenger base.

 

We have 5 full time ships. Availability and pricing on those ships will tell you when the prime season is here. It is summer, which also coincides with the northern winter.

 

Princess, HAL, Carnival & P&O all offered more capacity this past summer than ever before, but there are a few bumps looking forward:

- the world is in slowdown mode after spending too much of our taxes to try to avoid a slowdown. For our summer seasons to be successful, we also need to attract passengers from other slowdown countries,

- some respected industry folk here are becoming resigned to vaccine and pre-cruise testing being around for some time here. Potential passengers from home and away will not book until those restrictions are fully removed,

- a lack of variety is apparent. Upgraded port facilities are behind schedule, and some of the islands are still reluctant to open up to strangers. We can't cruise there if they won't let us. Oh, plus rhino beetles and dirty hulls are new hurdles.

 

Yes, cruise lines do spend too little time in port. That is a world wide thing though - more time at sea means slower speeds and fuel economy. Even the ultra traditional QM2 Transatlantic's used to be 5 nights and are now 7. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing Royal Princess and Celebrity Edge here next season. Some new ports would be nice, but I am happy to fly to see them. I would rather talk-up what I enjoy about cruising in Oz than to talk it down, as I reckon the local industry is doing pretty well with what they have to work with. I think we are lucky to be living and cruising from the lucky country. Many cruisers from around the world never get to experience a Sydney sailaway or sail-in.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by arxcards

[OzKiwiJJ]

Personally I don't want to see cruising become too popular here. Although we had a wonderful Mediterranean cruise in 2017 one thing that was disappointing was having to battle with hordes of other passengers from other cruise ships in port, especially when most of those other ships were huge. 

 

Of course it depends on the port. Two cruise ships in Tauranga meant that Mount Maunganui was heaving but two in Port Chalmers had little effect as most people vanished on excursions or into Dunedin. We've been in Auckland when four ships were in port and the Auckland waterfront was getting to saturation point. We haven't had a problem so far in Australia though as the smaller ports seem to only handle one ship at a time and the cities easily handle the crowds. 

 

It will be interesting to see where we experience crowds on our world cruise next year. We don't have too many Mediterranean port but there may be other places that get congested.

[Ozwoody]

What is successful?

It would depend on what you define as successful.

Is it the number of cruises out of Australia?
The number of cruise lines coming to Australia?
The cost of cruising in Australia?
The length of cruising in Australia?
What cruises are conducted from Australia?

Certainly, there are more ships operating out of Australia this cruise season, and they are operating out of all major mainland cities, Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Freemantle.
I think that indicates the first two points would be classified as Successful.
The cost of cruising in Australia, is certainly more expensive than it use to be, however that goes with increased costs to operate anything these days, so can’t fault that too much. But the fact that cruise lines are removing benefits is bit of contention, but that’s a world-wide issue, not just an Australian one.
So would not classify any of the above as cruising being unsuccessful here.

As to what cruises are operated out of Australia, now that could be a bucket of worms. 
Where I would say that there are to many short cruises (7 days or less) and not enough 14 days or more.
Others would vehemently defend the short cruises, and are just what they prefer, for cost-free time to get away, etc, and rightly so I suppose.
So, I guess that’s a mixed bag, on how you see cruising.

 

Now for Itineraries, this is where, I would contend that maybe we may not be successful here.
First, we have a very boring and predictable cruise season here. Some say we have limited options from Australia, and its to far, too many sea day to get there.

 

Bumkin, I say, there is nothing wrong with three sea days in a row, your on a holiday why are you in a hurry to get somewhere, relax lay back revitalise!
When you get to the series of ports you’re going to visit, you will be revitalised, to better take advantage of your adventure. Then the return trip you can relax again and savour you last few days of exploration, and arrive home bright and sparkly, to tackle life again.

 

And destinations we have stacks of places to go to. NZ, it has more than the five that Brisbane cruisers keep getting multiple times each and every year.

Sydney get a bit of a variety. P&O has just shown us that you can include a quick side trip to Norfolk Island in an alternative swing.
Why for crying out loud can Sydney & Melbourne have cruises to Fiji, but not Brisbane, its in our back yard so to speak?
Well, I do note P&O seem to have woken up to that, and are including a cruise there out of Brisbane.

As an alternative cruise I have previously said, why not do a cruise to Darwin that included Cairns, Port Douglas, Darwin, Alotau, Vila, and maybe Noumea, and back to Brisbane. Now that would be a nice spread of cultures.

 

BUT, the big thing that is missing I believe is more time in a port, I don’t mind a few days at sea, but would like more overnighters in ports so you can truly experience a destination, it would be great if excursions concentrated on meeting the people, rather than just the sights. 
And for example, an evening on an Island with an outdoor traditional feast at night, seeing the people dance and sing, and being part of it, would be the highlight of any port visit, it doesn’t have to be all glitz and impressive views.
 

[OzKiwiJJ]

27 minutes ago, Ozwoody said:

As an alternative cruise I have previously said, why not do a cruise to Darwin that included Cairns, Port Douglas, Darwin, Alotau, Vila, and maybe Noumea, and back to Brisbane. Now that would be a nice spread of cultures.

I'd certainly be interested in that. It would probably take three weeks or so, with quite a few sea days so perfect in my eyes. But...

 

It's mostly us retirees who can do the longer cruises. Seven day cruises are very popular because they don't use up too much of people's holiday time. 12-14 day cruises are also popular and you really can't do NZ properly in less.

 

But longer than 14 days and the market lessens. Many of us retirees have already done all the usual itineraries, often more than once. Now I don't mind the ship as the destination as long as a) the weather is good and warm and b) it's a Princess ship with the Sanctuary and I manage to get a booking there.

[MMDown Under]

2 hours ago, lyndarra said:

The inference I got from the topic was not that cruising is unsuccessful but, that how could it be more successful?

As mentioned, we are limited in ports so, to be more successful we would need more people from overseas, due to our small home population, visiting our regions' ports.

Some issues affecting  travel by overseas visitors are, IMO;

Post COVID air transport cost increases - that is certainly working both ways - combined with distance

Lack of disposable income due to current financial conditions internationally - inflation and interest rates,

and

Security uncertainty due to present and possibly, future global conflicts i.e. various wars and political strife.

 

 

 

Yes that is what I meant, but didn't express well.  

In my opinion, Aust and NZ have it all - friendly people, beautiful unique scenery, interesting unique wildlife, good healthy food, etc.  I feel cruises could be more  successful by spending longer time in ports encouraging visitors to meet locals.  

Eg a short island cruise from Brisbane to Moreton Island, Mooloolaba, Fraser Island and Stradbroke Island.  I have holidayed on these beautiful islands plus Heron Island and Lady Elliott Island (Lady Musgrave Island to go). 

In addition, there are many beautiful islands in Central/North Queensland which maybe could be visited by smaller ships. The disadvantage of smaller ships are they are expensive.

[yarramar]

Maybe it is because the destinations offered are easy to get to without a cruise and the itineraries are predictable and not particularly good value.

If a cruise line was to have it's "season" in Australia's winter and travel north to warmer climes instead of competing with all the others, and now also Virgin Voyages, they would likely find a lucrative market.

The few cruises that I have found out of an Australian port which were of interest to me were sold out extremely quickly.

This one looks good https://www.pocruises.com.au/cruises/solomon-sea-islands/x327 but unfortunately it is on P&O. 

[MMDown Under]

2 hours ago, yarramar said:

Maybe it is because the destinations offered are easy to get to without a cruise and the itineraries are predictable and not particularly good value.

If a cruise line was to have it's "season" in Australia's winter and travel north to warmer climes instead of competing with all the others, and now also Virgin Voyages, they would likely find a lucrative market.

The few cruises that I have found out of an Australian port which were of interest to me were sold out extremely quickly.

This one looks good https://www.pocruises.com.au/cruises/solomon-sea-islands/x327 but unfortunately it is on P&O. 

Yes that could be the answer.  I remember my daughter being astounded that her flatmate in Toronto, Canada had never seen the ocean, something most Australians and Kiwis take for granted.  Australians are used to driving long distances to see what they want to see.  We just drove to Canberra for its National Folk Festival.  A daughter is currently driving around Australia in her van.  Another daughter is planning a visit to Thailand and the USA this year.  Neither is interesting in cruising despite me giving them a cruise each.  

[MMDown Under]

8 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

I should have clarified my comments didn't refer to small ships which are world class, based in Cairns.

Coral Expeditions.  This small company has expanded from the Kimberley to Tasmania and the small islands of the Indian Ocean and Pacific.  Now they are cruising the wild islands of South Australia and Raja Amat and the Spice Islands.

www.coralexpeditions.com

[Aus Traveller]

The original question seemed to be in the form of the old classic "Have you stopped beating your wife".

I feel cruising in Australia is very successful and obviously the industry thinks so too.😁

[windsor26]

At a question and answer session on Carnival  The CD was asked why we had to have huge ships here that could not dock   The reply given was that there were so many Australians and NZ trying to book the small ships were oversold therefore a larger ship was sent  HOWEVER  on the last 2 cruises on that ship  we noted that there were several hundred USA cruisers who had a completely FREE  holiday even gifted $500 or  so obc for the casino AND free drinks throughout.  So it does not compute  This included very cheap cruise about $500 for 9 days inside and children under 12 free

[OzKiwiJJ]

12 hours ago, yarramar said:

Maybe it is because the destinations offered are easy to get to without a cruise and the itineraries are predictable and not particularly good value.

If a cruise line was to have it's "season" in Australia's winter and travel north to warmer climes instead of competing with all the others, and now also Virgin Voyages, they would likely find a lucrative market.

The few cruises that I have found out of an Australian port which were of interest to me were sold out extremely quickly.

This one looks good https://www.pocruises.com.au/cruises/solomon-sea-islands/x327 but unfortunately it is on P&O. 

Princess used to do that when we first started cruising end of 2014. They did Top End cruises Sydney/Brisbane to Fremantle and vice-versa (we did one of those in 2015 on Dawn) and the occasional PNG cruise (we did one Sept 2016 on Sun). They were very popular. However they stopped doing that in 2017, I think. Such a shame.

 

[dazadelaide]

12 hours ago, yarramar said:

This one looks good https://www.pocruises.com.au/cruises/solomon-sea-islands/x327 but unfortunately it is on P&O. 

Why unfortunately?

We did almost the same itinerary on P&O back in 2018 and had a great time.

I know P&O dont have the newest ships or all the bells and whistles that some other lines have but they offer a good product for a good price.

We have just about exhausted most the itineraries that interest us from oz and sadly we have to look further afield for cruises in future.

So we have started to seek out cruises that are repositioning back to oz.

As others have said cruising in oz isn't unsuccessful it just lacks destination diversity for all the reasons mentioned above.

Keep cruising everyone they are great ways to see the world and are great holidays to boot.

Daz

 

[windsor26]

1 hour ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Princess used to do that when we first started cruising end of 2014. They did Top End cruises Sydney/Brisbane to Fremantle and vice-versa (we did one of those in 2015 on Dawn) and the occasional PNG cruise (we did one Sept 2016 on Sun). They were very popular. However they stopped doing that in 2017, I think. Such a shame.

 

We need to nag Western Australia to open their cruise terminal again then we could do those itineries

[Relaxing Robbies]

1 hour ago, windsor26 said:

We need to nag Western Australia to open their cruise terminal again then we could do those itineries

Western Australia is open. We visited Fremantle, Geraldton and Broome in March. Ships have also visited Albany, Busselton and Exmouth.

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, windsor26 said:

We need to nag Western Australia to open their cruise terminal again then we could do those itineries

We were there last October on the Princess Round Australia cruise. Didn't get to go ashore though as I was still in Covid isolation. 

[harbourside]

I  am booked on Viking Venus January 2025 for there first Round Australia cruise (which includes Bali).

Sydney to Sydney 32 days.  Looking forward to this.  Scenic Eclipse 11 will also be in our waters 2024/2025.   These are more expensive cruise lines, but it does add options to the mass market lines.