Re-Fare Question

[Hlitner]

23 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

You don't by chance know where Princess might reflect that information on any of their itineraries listed on their website? In our case our TA has never had any issues refaring our bookings prior to FP where it made economic sense to do so. For example, a couple of months ago she was able to refare our upcoming Canada/NE cruise when a Vista Suite, whose category had been previously sold out for months, all of the sudden became available for $400 pp less + $100 pp OBC.

 

I'm not saying it's not true. I'd just like to read the wording in the applicable T&C.

We have had similar experience with our cruise agent.  One reason, among many, that we always book cruises with a good high volume cruise agency/agent is that we prefer to have a professional (our cruise agent) working on our behalf...not for the cruise line.  When we see a significant price drop (on a booked cruise) we simply send a short e-mail to our cruise agent who will than look into the situation and let us know our options.  With Princess (we have 36 cruises with this line) we have never had a situation prior to final payment where we have not been able to refare.  Perhaps things have recently changed (we only have one future Princess booking at this time) but we have yet to have an issue.

 

Hank

[Ken the cruiser]

8 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We have had similar experience with our cruise agent.  One reason, among many, that we always book cruises with a good high volume cruise agency/agent is that we prefer to have a professional (our cruise agent) working on our behalf...not for the cruise line.  When we see a significant price drop (on a booked cruise) we simply send a short e-mail to our cruise agent who will than look into the situation and let us know our options.  With Princess (we have 36 cruises with this line) we have never had a situation prior to final payment where we have not been able to refare.  Perhaps things have recently changed (we only have one future Princess booking at this time) but we have yet to have an issue.

 

Hank

Thanks. We pretty much do the same with our TA when we encounter a price reduction. However, we currently have 11 booked with Princess through the summer of 2025, so I check daily for any price drops. But my guess is fares on the more popular cruises probably won't be dropping anytime soon as the demand for cruising is soaring right now since the "pando" is pretty much in the rearview mirror now.

[Steelers36]

53 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious as you seem to be someone in the know. If we book a Princess cruise in a certain category cabin, say M1, through our TA on the first day it's available to the public, but not as part of any discounted TA Group Fare offering, and another couple books the M1 cabin right next to us on the same day but uses their TA's discounted Group Fare offering, would both bookings have the same 3-digit Fare Code you referred to above or would they be different?

 

I'm just trying to piece together how these Group Fare bookings work. 

Yes, they could.  There is a separate reservation booking field for agency group code.  It is listed on the Travel Summary.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious as you seem to be someone in the know. If we book a Princess cruise in a certain category cabin, say M1, through our TA on the first day it's available to the public, but not as part of any discounted TA Group Fare offering, and another couple books the M1 cabin right next to us on the same day but uses their TA's discounted Group Fare offering, would both bookings have the same 3-digit Fare Code you referred to above or would they be different?

 

I'm just trying to piece together how these Group Fare bookings work. 

Gonna butt in on this thread because I am somewhat confused by your reference to "discounted Group fares."  The cruise agencies we work with do not deal in any group fares.  These days, the decent discount agencies simply rebate 7-10% of any Princess fare (it normally comes back as OBC or pre-paid grats or both).  It does not matter what cruise or category  The more you spend, the more dollars you get back (since it is all based on percentages).  Most of the best agencies are part of large travel "consortiums" or networks that handle 10s of thousands of bookings every year.  That gives them a lot of clout with all the cruise lines.

 

What you call "group fares" is almost as obsolete as dinosaurs.   While they still do exist, it is just not the way most agencies work these days.  If a particular group (say 20 couples) want to book the same cruise, they can go to any decent cruise/travel agency and try to negotiate some kind of deal.  Depending on the cruise line (and agency) there can be some generous discounts and possibly some free cabins (the savings can be spread over the group).   But as a simple example of how things work, we have an upcoming cruise on a Luxury cruise line for which we got a generous OBC from our favorite cruise agency.  And that agency is part of a large consortium (over 700 agencies) who tossed in another $1000 (on top of what we got from the agency).  That being said, very few cruisers are aware of the consortiums or whether their chosen agency is part of one of those large buying groups.  

 

And all these "deals" are really complicated by the varioius promotions and packages offered by the cruise line.  I can go on the web site of my favorite cruise agency, pull up a specific cruise, and often find 3, 4 or more different fares (depending on the package, deposit terms, etc).

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Ken, I can/t let your post pass without acknowledging your comment about 11 booked Princess cruises :).   We know a HAL cruiser who is similar (sometimes a dozen cruises booked) and we find it fascinating.  While we do a lot of cruising (over 100 days in some years) we avoid cruising with the same line too many times over a short period of time.  Why?  To us, it becomes a little boring with the "same old same old" in terms of dining menus, alternative dining options, production shows (which Princess keeps for years), etc.  Our last 4 cruises have been with 3 different lines (including Princess) and our next few cruises are with 4 different cruise lines, ranging from mass market (i.e. Princess) to luxury.  Even our ship sizes vary from fewer than 1000 to over 4000.  With about 50 years of extensive cruising, we find that all the variety keeps it fresh and somewhat exciting

 

The other thing that has changed in our cruising life is where we used to do a lot of 7-14 day cruises, we now prefer 14+ with 40-60 being our favorite length.  Over 60 days becomes somewhat difficult (in terms of logistics) although we are intrigued by the Oceania 180 day cruises.  .

 

Hank

[Ken the cruiser]

7 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Gonna butt in on this thread because I am somewhat confused by your reference to "discounted Group fares."  The cruise agencies we work with do not deal in any group fares.  These days, the decent discount agencies simply rebate 7-10% of any Princess fare (it normally comes back as OBC or pre-paid grats or both).  It does not matter what cruise or category  The more you spend, the more dollars you get back (since it is all based on percentages).  Most of the best agencies are part of large travel "consortiums" or networks that handle 10s of thousands of bookings every year.  That gives them a lot of clout with all the cruise lines.

 

What you call "group fares" is almost as obsolete as dinosaurs.   While they still do exist, it is just not the way most agencies work these days.  If a particular group (say 20 couples) want to book the same cruise, they can go to any decent cruise/travel agency and try to negotiate some kind of deal.  Depending on the cruise line (and agency) there can be some generous discounts and possibly some free cabins (the savings can be spread over the group).   But as a simple example of how things work, we have an upcoming cruise on a Luxury cruise line for which we got a generous OBC from our favorite cruise agency.  And that agency is part of a large consortium (over 700 agencies) who tossed in another $1000 (on top of what we got from the agency).  That being said, very few cruisers are aware of the consortiums or whether their chosen agency is part of one of those large buying groups.  

 

And all these "deals" are really complicated by the varioius promotions and packages offered by the cruise line.  I can go on the web site of my favorite cruise agency, pull up a specific cruise, and often find 3, 4 or more different fares (depending on the package, deposit terms, etc).

 

Hank

Hey, I’m just over here in the peanut gallery absorbing what I read on some of these Princess and Celebrity threads associated with “discounted” fares offered by TAs on select itinerary. In our case our TA gives us 8% off the “commissionable portion” of the cruise fare, and we’re happy with that.
 

But I’ve read recently as well as over the past few years how TAs on occasion offer so called “discounted” group rates on specific itineraries if you book with them. What I’ve be able to figure out so far, and I could be totally wrong, is that a large TA or consortium reserves a select number of slots (for lack of a better word) in various categories at a certain price on specific itineraries, usually around the initial price when the itinerary is released to the public.
 

If the “retail” price of the cruise goes up, it becomes a positive selling factor for the TA who has secured a block of cabin categories on that cruise at a lower price. If the price goes down, the TA eventually gives the remainder back to the cruise line prior to final payment. 
 

At least that’s how I’m interpreting all of this. Since we usually book a cruise when they’re initially released, these “discounted” fares don’t intrigue us all that much.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

12 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Ken, I can/t let your post pass without acknowledging your comment about 11 booked Princess cruises :).   We know a HAL cruiser who is similar (sometimes a dozen cruises booked) and we find it fascinating.  While we do a lot of cruising (over 100 days in some years) we avoid cruising with the same line too many times over a short period of time.  Why?  To us, it becomes a little boring with the "same old same old" in terms of dining menus, alternative dining options, production shows (which Princess keeps for years), etc.  Our last 4 cruises have been with 3 different lines (including Princess) and our next few cruises are with 4 different cruise lines, ranging from mass market (i.e. Princess) to luxury.  Even our ship sizes vary from fewer than 1000 to over 4000.  With about 50 years of extensive cruising, we find that all the variety keeps it fresh and somewhat exciting

 

The other thing that has changed in our cruising life is where we used to do a lot of 7-14 day cruises, we now prefer 14+ with 40-60 being our favorite length.  Over 60 days becomes somewhat difficult (in terms of logistics) although we are intrigued by the Oceania 180 day cruises.  .

 

Hank

I take it you didn’t expand my signature! 😂

[Ken the cruiser]

15 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Ken, I can/t let your post pass without acknowledging your comment about 11 booked Princess cruises :).   We know a HAL cruiser who is similar (sometimes a dozen cruises booked) and we find it fascinating.  While we do a lot of cruising (over 100 days in some years) we avoid cruising with the same line too many times over a short period of time.  Why?  To us, it becomes a little boring with the "same old same old" in terms of dining menus, alternative dining options, production shows (which Princess keeps for years), etc.  Our last 4 cruises have been with 3 different lines (including Princess) and our next few cruises are with 4 different cruise lines, ranging from mass market (i.e. Princess) to luxury.  Even our ship sizes vary from fewer than 1000 to over 4000.  With about 50 years of extensive cruising, we find that all the variety keeps it fresh and somewhat exciting

 

The other thing that has changed in our cruising life is where we used to do a lot of 7-14 day cruises, we now prefer 14+ with 40-60 being our favorite length.  Over 60 days becomes somewhat difficult (in terms of logistics) although we are intrigued by the Oceania 180 day cruises.  .

 

Hank

Let me expand on my last post. We started with HAL back in 2012, with a few Celebrity and Princess cruises thrown in for good measure. We also tried Oceania and were totally wowed by Crystal until they added a cancellation penalty around 2019. We’ve also done a couple of Disney family cruises. We now pretty much cruise with Celebrity and Princess, and on occasion with NCL if the itinerary is awesome like the 38-day B2B on the Jade this past Nov/Dec. Check out the pictures in my Live From thread in my signature.
 

But we agree cruising with the same line, especially when we also cruise around 100 days a year, could get very boring! 😁

[nasa1974]

I'm booked on a 3 day out of Vancouver to San Francisco in October and noticed a price drop of $300. Contacted my TA and got re-fared without a problem.

I have another cruise booked for April 2024 along with my younger daughter's family and noticed a $435.00 and a $573.00 price drop. Asked my TA about it but didn't re-fare. We would have lost our OBC and it wasn't worth the few dollars in savings.  Just make sure you are looking at all the options. 

[MsSoCalCruiser]

21 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

With certainty, if PCL still offering the same Cruise Fare Code (3 alphanumerc) today that you booked under, then a re-fare is possible.

 

If the current Fare Code has expired and the new price is therefore a new Fare Code, it seems some agents can finagle a re-fare, but I would expect a cancel/re-book.

 

Also, it is possible to "lift and shift" some things to the new booking and not have a "do over".

 

In the situation of a cancel, try and plan to have the time to go in and cancel reservations like excursions and such that you are going to lose anyway.  When self-cancelled, this should trigger a refund back to form of payment.  IOW, "clean up" your res file before the agent executes the cancel/re-book.  Advice for all, but tagging @MsSoCalCruiser.

 

Be aware in advance if you can re-book your air at similar cost or not.  If not, have that discussion as to whether they can preserve the air.  Have TA speak to someone at PCL because this can happen.  Understand that you still have good acceptable flights to book and will any airfare increase cancel out out the cruise fare savings you are going after.

 

Thank you very much.  If I am booking online, how do I know what rate code the fare is under? I’ve sailed on over 20 cruises with Princess and have never had a problem getting a refare so I found it strange that my friend was having problems. Again, thank you so much for your help.

[jwattle]

18 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Gonna butt in on this thread because I am somewhat confused by your reference to "discounted Group fares."  The cruise agencies we work with do not deal in any group fares.  These days, the decent discount agencies simply rebate 7-10% of any Princess fare (it normally comes back as OBC or pre-paid grats or both).  It does not matter what cruise or category  The more you spend, the more dollars you get back (since it is all based on percentages).  Most of the best agencies are part of large travel "consortiums" or networks that handle 10s of thousands of bookings every year.  That gives them a lot of clout with all the cruise lines.

 

What you call "group fares" is almost as obsolete as dinosaurs.   While they still do exist, it is just not the way most agencies work these days.  If a particular group (say 20 couples) want to book the same cruise, they can go to any decent cruise/travel agency and try to negotiate some kind of deal.  Depending on the cruise line (and agency) there can be some generous discounts and possibly some free cabins (the savings can be spread over the group).   But as a simple example of how things work, we have an upcoming cruise on a Luxury cruise line for which we got a generous OBC from our favorite cruise agency.  And that agency is part of a large consortium (over 700 agencies) who tossed in another $1000 (on top of what we got from the agency).  That being said, very few cruisers are aware of the consortiums or whether their chosen agency is part of one of those large buying groups.  

 

And all these "deals" are really complicated by the varioius promotions and packages offered by the cruise line.  I can go on the web site of my favorite cruise agency, pull up a specific cruise, and often find 3, 4 or more different fares (depending on the package, deposit terms, etc).

 

Hank

 

18 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Hey, I’m just over here in the peanut gallery absorbing what I read on some of these Princess and Celebrity threads associated with “discounted” fares offered by TAs on select itinerary. In our case our TA gives us 8% off the “commissionable portion” of the cruise fare, and we’re happy with that.
 

But I’ve read recently as well as over the past few years how TAs on occasion offer so called “discounted” group rates on specific itineraries if you book with them. What I’ve be able to figure out so far, and I could be totally wrong, is that a large TA or consortium reserves a select number of slots (for lack of a better word) in various categories at a certain price on specific itineraries, usually around the initial price when the itinerary is released to the public.
 

If the “retail” price of the cruise goes up, it becomes a positive selling factor for the TA who has secured a block of cabin categories on that cruise at a lower price. If the price goes down, the TA eventually gives the remainder back to the cruise line prior to final payment. 
 

At least that’s how I’m interpreting all of this. Since we usually book a cruise when they’re initially released, these “discounted” fares don’t intrigue us all that much.

 

Hank,

I was going to post pretty much what Ken said. "Group rates" doesn't just mean a traditional group of friends. Travel agents, including the consortiums and big box stores, can put large slots of rooms (not specific cabins, just types of cabins) on hold at a discounted "group" rate with amenities. They then sell those cabins at a discount with those amenities. The discount can be deeper if they include the "free cabin for 'x' amount purchased" in their math.

[Hlitner]

32 minutes ago, jwattle said:

 

Hank,

I was going to post pretty much what Ken said. "Group rates" doesn't just mean a traditional group of friends. Travel agents, including the consortiums and big box stores, can put large slots of rooms (not specific cabins, just types of cabins) on hold at a discounted "group" rate with amenities. They then sell those cabins at a discount with those amenities. The discount can be deeper if they include the "free cabin for 'x' amount purchased" in their math.

What I was trying to explain is that the large consortiums (many cruise/travel agencies are members) essentially have group rates+ for every cruise.  You have to understand that since these consortiums represent hundreds of agencies, everything they do is a big group :).  Decades ago, these type buying groups did not exist except for a few groups like AAA.  Now, it is a game changer and the cruise lines need the consortiums to help fill their ships.

 

I am still mystified that many agencies hide their affiliations while others put them right out front.  The other thing about these consortiums is that, more and more, they will have a host/hostess on many cruises that will usually have a private reception/party for all who booked through any of their agencies.  We first stumbled on this when on a Seabourn cruise and were invited to a hosted party (no big deal on that line since everything is already included) and decided to attend.  We were surprised at how many folks were at the reception.  And the consortium hostess surprised everyone by giving them an extra On Board Credit.   They have quietly become a major player in the cruise world.  On one HAL cruise, their future cruise consultant (a HAL employee) pointed out to us that within the cruise industry about 80% of all bookings come through agencies.  The consortium that two of our favored agencies belong actually booked over $8 Billion in sales...so you can imagine the clout that comes from that kind of volume.  We know of another major consortium that has booked over $25 Billion (over many years).

 

Hank

 

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, MsSoCalCruiser said:

Thank you very much.  If I am booking online, how do I know what rate code the fare is under? I’ve sailed on over 20 cruises with Princess and have never had a problem getting a refare so I found it strange that my friend was having problems. Again, thank you so much for your help.

You will need to ask your travel agent or Princess CVP.  It is in the POLAR res record, but not shown in the Travel Summary.  Princess does publish these in the T&C's of most/all of their promotions.  Otherwise, if you have access to third-party booking engines that show all available cruise fares (compared to Princess.com with one only), the Fare Codes are often reported there as well.

 

[Coral]

19 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

 

What you call "group fares" is almost as obsolete as dinosaurs.   While they still do exist, it is just not the way most agencies work these days.  If a particular group (say 20 couples) want to book the same cruise, they can go to any decent cruise/travel agency and try to negotiate some kind of deal.  Depending on the cruise line (and agency) there can be some generous discounts and possibly some free cabins (the savings can be spread over the group).   But as a simple example of how things work, we have an upcoming cruise on a Luxury cruise line for which we got a generous OBC from our favorite cruise agency.  And that agency is part of a large consortium (over 700 agencies) who tossed in another $1000 (on top of what we got from the agency).  That being said, very few cruisers are aware of the consortiums or whether their chosen agency is part of one of those large buying groups.  

Group space does exist even if it is not what most think it is. My agent grabs group space on cruises that she thinks will be popular amongst her clients (she is a very high producer with Princess). By doing so, she locks in the price in certain categories when the cruise is released. Any of her clients can book into that group space (even if they don't know each other) and benefit.

 

Not only does she grab group space, her parent company does and her consortium does. The passenger may not realize they are booked into group space. Though they can see the benefits (cheaper fare, more perks, more OBC, etc...)

 

So group space does exist. We may be calling it different things. I completely agree about consortiums and their buying power. My agent's company recently changed consortiums so it has been interesting to see the difference.

[jwattle]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

What I was trying to explain is that the large consortiums (many cruise/travel agencies are members) essentially have group rates+ for every cruise.  You have to understand that since these consortiums represent hundreds of agencies, everything they do is a big group :).  Decades ago, these type buying groups did not exist except for a few groups like AAA.  Now, it is a game changer and the cruise lines need the consortiums to help fill their ships.

 

I am still mystified that many agencies hide their affiliations while others put them right out front.  The other thing about these consortiums is that, more and more, they will have a host/hostess on many cruises that will usually have a private reception/party for all who booked through any of their agencies.  We first stumbled on this when on a Seabourn cruise and were invited to a hosted party (no big deal on that line since everything is already included) and decided to attend.  We were surprised at how many folks were at the reception.  And the consortium hostess surprised everyone by giving them an extra On Board Credit.   They have quietly become a major player in the cruise world.  On one HAL cruise, their future cruise consultant (a HAL employee) pointed out to us that within the cruise industry about 80% of all bookings come through agencies.  The consortium that two of our favored agencies belong actually booked over $8 Billion in sales...so you can imagine the clout that comes from that kind of volume.  We know of another major consortium that has booked over $25 Billion (over many years).

 

Hank

 

I'm well aware of the clout. It's very helpful as a T/A