Southern Dan Posted July 24 #601 Share Posted July 24 Word of Project Discovery first came about over a year and a half ago at this point so I would think they are almost done with the design aspect of the new class. They probably have agreements in place with a shipyard that will handle construction but they are keeping hush hush on it. What is going on at Meyer Turku once Icon III is complete? Perhaps it isn’t out of the realm of possibility the first Discovery (or whatever it will be called) Class ship to come out in 2027? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 24 #602 Share Posted July 24 5 hours ago, Southern Dan said: They probably have agreements in place with a shipyard that will handle construction but they are keeping hush hush on it. Why would they keep ir hush hush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.S Posted July 24 #603 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Charles4515 said: Why would they keep ir hush hush? Perhaps they'll give an update during tomorrow's Q2 earnings update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 24 #604 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Mike.S said: Perhaps they'll give an update during tomorrow's Q2 earnings update? That is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackham Posted July 24 #605 Share Posted July 24 (edited) 12 hours ago, Southern Dan said: Perhaps it isn’t out of the realm of possibility the first Discovery (or whatever it will be called) Class ship to come out in 2027? Meyer Turku currently doesn't have any orders for 2027. Nor does Royal Caribbean. https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-ship-orderbook/ Royal does have another Oasis class order in at Chantiers for 2028. So it's possible we might see something new, new in 2027. And with how the order book is already filling up for '27, if it's going to happen, we will probably hear something soon. Edit: "Why would they keep ir hush hush?" - Charles4515 Marketing or still hammering out the contract with them. If it's marketing, Royal wants to control how they're advertising this ship for maximum impact while not distracting from their current offerings that they're pushing. If it contract, then nothing has been finalized in writing. Therefore there's nothing to find in public reports. Edited July 24 by Rackham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 24 #606 Share Posted July 24 20 minutes ago, Rackham said: Marketing or still hammering out the contract with them. If it's marketing, Royal wants to control how they're advertising this ship for maximum impact while not distracting from their current offerings that they're pushing. If it contract, then nothing has been finalized in writing. Therefore there's nothing to find in public reports If nothing is finalized in writing I don't see 2027 being possible. Carnival just announced a new class of ship this week the first to be deilvered in 2028. If something is finalized soon for Discovery class then 2028at the earlist is most likely not 2027. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Dan Posted July 24 #607 Share Posted July 24 (edited) Does it make a difference that the new Royal Class will be much, much smaller than the new Carnival Class with regards to time of build? Edited July 24 by Southern Dan Correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eel Posted July 24 #608 Share Posted July 24 (edited) 15 hours ago, Charles4515 said: Your timeline is optimistic as they have not ordered any Discovery Class ships. If they ordered tomorrow then 2028 for the first Discovery class ship. A new Royal ship takes about 12 - 18 months to build. They have been talking about Discovery in broad terms for years so I suspect the design is mostly complete. I think I first heard about the Discovery project in 2022 and Michael Bayley even mentioned a smaller ship concept on the 2019 Presidents Cruise. If they formally announce it later this year, 2027 is feasible. If not, I agree it will be later. Edited July 24 by eel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 24 #609 Share Posted July 24 1 minute ago, eel said: Cruise ships take about 12 - 18 months to build a new Royal ship. They have been talking about Discovery in broad terms for years so I suspect the design is mostly complete. If they formally announce it later this year, 2027 is feasible. If not, I agree it will be later. They have to order the materials before they build. Much will have to be fabricated. Labor has to be hired. After they build they have to do sea trials. If it is a brand new design I doubt that 2027 is feasible even if announced later this year. If they can find a way to modify Edge class or Quantum class hulls then 2027 might be feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackham Posted July 24 #610 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Charles4515 said: If nothing is finalized in writing I don't see 2027 being possible. Carnival just announced a new class of ship this week the first to be deilvered in 2028. If something is finalized soon for Discovery class then 2028at the earlist is most likely not 2027. Can't find exact dates, but Voyager of the Seas took about 24 months. Oasis of the Seas took from November 2007 to delivery in October 2009, or about 23 months. Icon took from June 2021 to delivery in November 2023, or about 30 months. Basically, if Royal wants a Discovery class ship delivered by 2027 there's still time for the order if a slot is available and their end is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Graveson Posted July 24 #611 Share Posted July 24 I want to give my take on this topic, as I have kind of sat back and watched as everyone passed on their opinions, and I think we have come to a good point were we are talking timelines... It is important to lay down some of the evidence for the now named, Discovery-Class, where it began, what has been said and where it could go: 1. Michael Bayley seemingly confirmed that the line was working on a conceptual idea for a smaller class of ship in Early 2023 as part of an earnings call - this was the first public mention and confirmation from Royal Caribbean about a new smaller class 2. The introductory text by Staff Captain Markus Alander, who has worked in Royal Caribbean's New Build Department for several years, suggests that he is also involved in the Discovery project. Alander has overseen the introduction of numerous new ships for the Royal Caribbean Group in recent years. 3. Multiple Captain's Corner events have revealed that Royal are working on a smaller class, with the Captain of Radiance of the Seas, confirming the lead ship of the new class being named Discovery of the Seas. 4. Onboard the media launch event for the amazing new Utopia of the Seas, Michael Bayley officially confirmed that the "Discovery-Class" will be the name of this new project. 5. In an unreleased video interview with Bayley, he said, "the discussions started with a 'smaller' ship, this changed to a 'larger' and most recently it's larger again" - alluding to a similar thing that happened with Project Icon. Now that's out the way, my thoughts and what I have been made aware of... Discovery-Class will be Freedom/Quantum-Class size - think around 150,000 gross tons, which I am aware is not what many want to hear, however, the fact is, Royal Caribbean have found that the larger ships, especially on shorter itineraries, works out more profitable than the smaller ships on longer sailings. As much as there is still an audience for the smaller ships, there is no dragging Royal Caribbean away from building larger ships, the same philosophy can be applied to Carnival and Norwegian Cruise Line, as they are moving to ships over 200,000 gross tons, that should tell you all you need to know. In terms of homeports, it is a difficult one, because there is two sides to this argument, Miami and Port Canaveral are Royal's gold mines, that's where the new, biggest and boldest ships go, as they know they will be successful there, however, in ports such as Tampa and Baltimore, they are used as the retirement homes for the older ships, which works well for the market demographics in these areas... So, from a personal point of view, it is hard for me to understand how Royal could launch new ships from these areas, considering the immense demand at the 2 main ports... As I move onto design, I have heard people on this forum talk about Royal using the Edge or Quantum platform as a basis, however, with the changes in maritime law and technology, it is increasingly difficult to adapt existing platforms for use in a modern environment. Discovery-Class will be the grandest show-off of new technology, potentially, using similar Tri-fuel technology from the upcoming Celebrity Xcel. Now, I have seen a lot of people talking about the timeline and also shipyard schedule for the Discovery project, so lets assume that Royal will pick Meyer Werft in Papenburg, Germany, considering they are one of only 2 major shipyards in the world with an open orderbook later this decade. Their current schedule is looking like this, based on when the ships are delivered: Disney Treasure - November 2024 Asuka III - April 2025 Disney Destiny - November 2025 Carnival Excel 4 - July 2027 Carnival Excel 5 - July 2028 OLC Disney Wish 4 - December 2028 Meyer Werft do have the capability of producing 2 large ships a year, as evident in 2028, however slots for 2026 and 2027 are apparently already taken and yet to be announced. So for Discovery-Class, expect the first ship to launch in 2029, with orders running at one per year. However, some more fuel to the fire, is the potential order of Icon 4 at Meyer Turku and the potential order of Oasis 8 at Chantiers De L'Atlantique, therefore maybe taking some capital from the project to fund the payments for these orders, however, we are unsure to say whether or not these orders will be placed. I think that is everything so far, if I think of anything else I will be sure to let you all know, however please remember these are personal opinions and workings out, so don't scrutinise too much! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 24 #612 Share Posted July 24 19 minutes ago, Nathan Graveson said: and yet to be announced. So for Discovery-Class, expect the first ship to launch in 2029, with orders running at one per year. I believe that is more likely than 2027 or 2028. But maybe later as they seem quite happy about the results of building more Oasis class and Icon class mega ships. Time will tell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillyFan33579 Posted July 25 #613 Share Posted July 25 7 hours ago, Nathan Graveson said: I want to give my take on this topic, as I have kind of sat back and watched as everyone passed on their opinions, and I think we have come to a good point were we are talking timelines... It is important to lay down some of the evidence for the now named, Discovery-Class, where it began, what has been said and where it could go: 1. Michael Bayley seemingly confirmed that the line was working on a conceptual idea for a smaller class of ship in Early 2023 as part of an earnings call - this was the first public mention and confirmation from Royal Caribbean about a new smaller class 2. The introductory text by Staff Captain Markus Alander, who has worked in Royal Caribbean's New Build Department for several years, suggests that he is also involved in the Discovery project. Alander has overseen the introduction of numerous new ships for the Royal Caribbean Group in recent years. 3. Multiple Captain's Corner events have revealed that Royal are working on a smaller class, with the Captain of Radiance of the Seas, confirming the lead ship of the new class being named Discovery of the Seas. 4. Onboard the media launch event for the amazing new Utopia of the Seas, Michael Bayley officially confirmed that the "Discovery-Class" will be the name of this new project. 5. In an unreleased video interview with Bayley, he said, "the discussions started with a 'smaller' ship, this changed to a 'larger' and most recently it's larger again" - alluding to a similar thing that happened with Project Icon. Now that's out the way, my thoughts and what I have been made aware of... Discovery-Class will be Freedom/Quantum-Class size - think around 150,000 gross tons, which I am aware is not what many want to hear, however, the fact is, Royal Caribbean have found that the larger ships, especially on shorter itineraries, works out more profitable than the smaller ships on longer sailings. As much as there is still an audience for the smaller ships, there is no dragging Royal Caribbean away from building larger ships, the same philosophy can be applied to Carnival and Norwegian Cruise Line, as they are moving to ships over 200,000 gross tons, that should tell you all you need to know. In terms of homeports, it is a difficult one, because there is two sides to this argument, Miami and Port Canaveral are Royal's gold mines, that's where the new, biggest and boldest ships go, as they know they will be successful there, however, in ports such as Tampa and Baltimore, they are used as the retirement homes for the older ships, which works well for the market demographics in these areas... So, from a personal point of view, it is hard for me to understand how Royal could launch new ships from these areas, considering the immense demand at the 2 main ports... As I move onto design, I have heard people on this forum talk about Royal using the Edge or Quantum platform as a basis, however, with the changes in maritime law and technology, it is increasingly difficult to adapt existing platforms for use in a modern environment. Discovery-Class will be the grandest show-off of new technology, potentially, using similar Tri-fuel technology from the upcoming Celebrity Xcel. Now, I have seen a lot of people talking about the timeline and also shipyard schedule for the Discovery project, so lets assume that Royal will pick Meyer Werft in Papenburg, Germany, considering they are one of only 2 major shipyards in the world with an open orderbook later this decade. Their current schedule is looking like this, based on when the ships are delivered: Disney Treasure - November 2024 Asuka III - April 2025 Disney Destiny - November 2025 Carnival Excel 4 - July 2027 Carnival Excel 5 - July 2028 OLC Disney Wish 4 - December 2028 Meyer Werft do have the capability of producing 2 large ships a year, as evident in 2028, however slots for 2026 and 2027 are apparently already taken and yet to be announced. So for Discovery-Class, expect the first ship to launch in 2029, with orders running at one per year. However, some more fuel to the fire, is the potential order of Icon 4 at Meyer Turku and the potential order of Oasis 8 at Chantiers De L'Atlantique, therefore maybe taking some capital from the project to fund the payments for these orders, however, we are unsure to say whether or not these orders will be placed. I think that is everything so far, if I think of anything else I will be sure to let you all know, however please remember these are personal opinions and workings out, so don't scrutinise too much! If the Captain of Enchantment can be trusted, the new “Discovery” class ship will be smaller than Voyager. He emphasized that point at the Top Tier event the other day. I plan to talk to him at the 340+ luncheon this Friday to hopefully find out a little bit more about Project Discovery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 25 #614 Share Posted July 25 3 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said: If the Captain of Enchantment can be trusted, the new “Discovery” class ship will be smaller than Voyager. He emphasized that point at the Top Tier event the other day. I plan to talk to him at the 340+ luncheon this Friday to hopefully find out a little bit more about Project Discovery. I don’t think it is a matter of trust. Captains are not at corporate headquarters where decisions are made. When they tell you things they spin so sounds like what they think you want to hear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillyFan33579 Posted July 25 #615 Share Posted July 25 2 minutes ago, Charles4515 said: I don’t think it is a matter of trust. Captains are not at corporate headquarters where decisions are made. When they tell you things they spin so sounds like what they think you want to hear. This is my 11th RCI cruise this year. On previous cruises staff has been very quiet at Top Tier events and 340+ luncheons when passengers have brought up Project Discovery. But on this cruise the Captain specifically stated he was addressing all the rumors concerning Project Discovery at the Top Tier event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saab4444 Posted July 25 #616 Share Posted July 25 3 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said: This is my 11th RCI cruise this year. On previous cruises staff has been very quiet at Top Tier events and 340+ luncheons when passengers have brought up Project Discovery. But on this cruise the Captain specifically stated he was addressing all the rumors concerning Project Discovery at the Top Tier event. For sure all Captains have received a Corporate order what they can and should tell guests at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumshoe958 Posted July 25 #617 Share Posted July 25 4 hours ago, Saab4444 said: For sure all Captains have received a Corporate order what they can and should tell guests at this point in time. Of course they have. They’d be fired pretty quickly if they failed to stick to the official company line and revealed confidential information that could affect the stock price before it’s announced to the markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace1zoe2 Posted July 25 #618 Share Posted July 25 Just saw this on the Labadee thread... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latebuyer Posted July 25 Author #619 Share Posted July 25 That’s great! Where did you get this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUgwoz Posted July 25 #620 Share Posted July 25 32 minutes ago, ace1zoe2 said: Just saw this on the Labadee thread... Interesting if they go that small, could see split between Med and the smaller ports like Tampa. 2500 capacity with more suites, more balconies, and latest technology vs. current small ships is going to fetch a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare RobInMN Posted July 25 #621 Share Posted July 25 10 minutes ago, latebuyer said: That’s great! Where did you get this information? @orville99 was reporting what was said at the captain's corner on their cruise. Not sure which ship/captain reported it. 6 minutes ago, SUgwoz said: Interesting if they go that small, could see split between Med and the smaller ports like Tampa. 2500 capacity with more suites, more balconies, and latest technology vs. current small ships is going to fetch a premium. I am also surprised it will be that small. I would have bet a minimum of 120K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latebuyer Posted July 25 Author #622 Share Posted July 25 Thanks, obviously as a vancouverite it would be great if ships left from vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted July 25 #623 Share Posted July 25 16 minutes ago, RobInMN said: @orville99 was reporting what was said at the captain's corner on their cruise. Not sure which ship/captain reported it. I am also surprised it will be that small. I would have bet a minimum of 120K If the class is shared with Celebrity then 90,000 could make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping Cruiser Posted July 25 #624 Share Posted July 25 29 minutes ago, RobInMN said: @orville99 was reporting what was said at the captain's corner on their cruise. Not sure which ship/captain reported it. I am also surprised it will be that small. I would have bet a minimum of 120K What we have to remember is thatt when Icon was in the works, it was referred to as being smaller than Oasis, but bigger than Quantum (around 200,000 gt). Look how that turned out, something actually 25,000 gt heavier than the largest Oasis class. Despite what’s being reported, my gut is telling me it will be around edge-class size. X seem to be coping well with accessing a variety of ports with this platform, while brining in the $$$. 3 minutes ago, Charles4515 said: If the class is shared with Celebrity then 90,000 could make sense. I don’t think a carbon-copy will be shared between the brands, but the platform may well be, similar to how QC are an evolution of X’s Solstice Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping Cruiser Posted July 25 #625 Share Posted July 25 23 hours ago, Charles4515 said: I believe that is more likely than 2027 or 2028. But maybe later as they seem quite happy about the results of building more Oasis class and Icon class mega ships. Time will tell. I think we will see Icon 4 in Late 27/Early 28 and Discovery from 2029. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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