Is Royal Caribbean building any small ships?

[HBE4]

2 hours ago, alfaeric said:

Icon is actually bigger than Oasis, so that's extra large. (248k GT vs. 227k)

 

And Quantum is not much larger than Freedom- 168k vs. 154k delta of 12k GT

 

Freedom is just a longer Voyager.  But it's bigger relative to Voyager 154k compared to 137k delta of 17k GT.

 

Just to be accurate.

 

Understood. No worries. My sizing chart was very subjective & not based on any real quantifiable unit of measure, hence why I said its "only in my mind". 

 

I guess in the back of my mind, I was thinking passenger capacity. So:

 

Small = 2000 - 2,500

Mid-size = high 3,000's - low 4,000's

Large = 5,000+

Extra Large = 6,000+

 

Of course, I tried to do this from memory without looking any statistics. With cabins being added over the years, the numbers are probably on the low side. And with some ships being amp'd, the passenger capacity can vary greatly even within a class of ships.

 

I'm not saying this to be argumentative, just trying to give some insight into my thinking at the time. I do know the true measurement of ship size is GT.

 

EDIT: Total brain fart on my part putting Icon in Large and not in Extra Large. I guess I missed the memo that billed it as Worlds Largest Cruise Ship😉🙂

Edited July 16 by HBE4

[Charles4515]

3 hours ago, gumshoe958 said:

Bayley can promise whatever he likes in the full knowledge that he’ll be long gone by 2029/30 and it’ll be someone else deciding whether there’s another WC or not.

 

This is the same Bayley who promised that Icon of the Seas would debut in the UK. His promises are completely and utterly empty but hey, it makes for good PR.

All these promises yet every new ship is to use someone elses terminology an extra large ship. Future ships on order are extra large ships. For people who want to sail on smaller ships there are RCI smaller ships for RCI loyalists and plenty in other cruise line fleets. The sister brand Celebrity has Edge class which is in the Voyager size range and RCI cruisers have reciprocity. 

[Charles4515]

3 hours ago, gumshoe958 said:

Bayley can promise whatever he likes in the full knowledge that he’ll be long gone by 2029/30 and it’ll be someone else deciding whether there’s another WC or not.

 

This is the same Bayley who promised that Icon of the Seas would debut in the UK. His promises are completely and utterly empty but hey, it makes for good PR.

All these promises yet every new ship is to use someone elses terminology an extra large ship. Future ships on order are extra large ships. For people who want to sail on smaller ships there are RCI smaller ships for RCI loyalists and plenty in other cruise line fleets. The sister brand Celebrity has Edge class which is in the Voyager size range and RCI cruisers have reciprocity. 

[PhillyFan33579]

4 hours ago, latebuyer said:

I think many people are stating that families only like the large ships. I don't think thats the case. Some are happy with the games offered on the small ships from what i've heard and like to do it the old fashioned way. My nieces love games.

What games are you talking about? I just got off Grandeur today and I am going on Enchantment this Saturday. I still enjoy the smaller ships but I would never take kids on these ships. 

[latebuyer]

I believe there is trivia geared to kids. All i know was i was on brilliance of the seas i remember there was 500 kids. I believe brilliance of the seas only has 2000 passengers so i wouldn’t say thats nothing considering people are claiming there are no kids on small ships.

[latebuyer]

Just to add, while i’m not a parent i see what my nieces enjoy. My younger nieces like the pool and board games while my older nieces like the hot tub. If they’d just put adequate pools and hot tubs on the small ships that would be attractive to families.

[Mick B]

Hi,

 

It has been over 10 years since I took my kids on a ship and also over 10 years since I took my eldest granddaughter on one.

 

The kids went on the Liberty and the grandkid on the Spendour.

 

Now, both cruises were port intensive and only had 1 sea day so the kids were up and off the ship making the most of all the ports and then came back on board for dinner, a show and then bed.

On the sea days they were happy to lounge around the pool area and jump in a hot tub from time to time.

 

And this is the thing...

What do your kids want from a cruise holiday and how do they behave when put in a situation where they may have to share things with others or join long queues.

 

It would seem from some of the cruises I have seen advertised that the newest (and therefore biggest) ship that offer more things for kids to do are only going on short breaks to certain ports where they can fit. This means if they want to enjoy the best of the ship when it is quiet then they will have to stay on board during a port day. Imaging travelling from the UK by plane for 10 hours to Miami and then going on a 4 day cruise to Jamaica and not getting off the ship at that port.

 

Now, on the other hand, some of the smaller ships that are based in places like Europe offer less things to do on board, but go to more ports for longer periods, meaning the kids would have less time on board and more time off the ship to enjoy the places the ship is taking them to.

 

Looking at some of the prices too, if your kids are old enough to be able to walk a fair distance then a longer European holiday on a slightly older ship - and there are a few that offer some good things on board for kids such as Voyager Class and Freedom Class, which can also get into many ports that Oasis Class cannot.

 

Now, when it comes to just me and the wife on our own, which is more or less all the time now, then we are simply not too bothered about what the ship has to offer, as we are going for the ports.

 

A few things we do like on board and sometimes miss on some of the older ships is a royal promenade, large schooner bar for quiz, Ice shows, pools with steps down and not ladder, oh, and a Crown Lounge with a view and not hidden in the depths of the ship.

 

I would imagine that RCI will not be building any smaller ships and now that they have changed the loyalty program, I suppose anyone who is high up with C&A may choose to sail on one of the smaller ships that RCIs partners have instead of a bigger RCI one.

 

My next cruise is back on the Indy next May from the UK.

Now that is now one of the smaller ships in the fleet but was the biggest ship in the world when I first went on her back in 2008.

Soon the ships will bigger than St Kitts!

 

Mick.

 

 

[latebuyer]

My friend is taking her 13 year old son to london. It will be interesting to hear how he liked it. 

[UPNYGuy]

On 7/16/2024 at 4:01 AM, Mick B said:

 

Now that is now one of the smaller ships in the fleet but was the biggest ship in the world when I first went on her back in 2008.

Soon the ships will bigger than St Kitts!

 

Mick.

 

 

Indy is *not* considered a small ship. FWIW, Voyager class on up are firmly in the megaship camp size an amenity wise. 

[Mick B]

Hi,

Sorry, I did not say Indy was a small ship, I said she was now one of the smaller ships in the fleet.

 

I believe just a couple of years ago she was still in the top 10 biggest ships (competing with her 2 Freedom class sister ships due to refits and extra tonnage), but now not only is she not in the top 10 biggest, she is not even in the top 30, nor is she even in RCIs top 10 due to all the newer and bigger ships.

 

Soon, when the Vision Class have gone and newer bigger ships come into play, Indy will be more near the bottom of the list than the top.

 

Size, doesn't really matter here though, luckily, it's about what the ship has to offer and where it can go.

 

Indy still fits into most ports and has a good life still ahead, hopefully.

She isn't much bigger than the Voyager Class and I think other than length, its just the cantilevered whirlpools that are the main visual difference.

 

BTW Indy was my first ship I sailed on, I have sailed on many times, in fact, she is the ship I have been on the most and look forward to her returning to the UK next year. I am booked on her first cruise (after her TA) which is 12 nights to the Canaries. Other than a 9 night Northen Spain cruise, I believe she is only doing 4 or 5 night North Sea cruises.

 

Shame RCI isn't doing longer cruises as this ship has so much to offer and more time onboard is needed to enjoy it.

 

Mick.

 

 

[Charles4515]

16 minutes ago, Mick B said:

 

BTW Indy was my first ship I sailed on, I have sailed on many times, in fact, she is the ship I have been on the most and look

I sailed on Voyager during her maiden year when she was the largest cruise ship in the world and old time cruisers said she was too large and not for them! My first cruise was on Monarch of the Seas and it was considered large! I think there are two strains of thought here some who want small and others who want smaller and they get confused. Indy is certainly not small but I guess to new cruisers who only know the mega ships it is small. 

[HBE4]

2 hours ago, Mick B said:

Hi,

Sorry, I did not say Indy was a small ship, I said she was now one of the smaller ships in the fleet.

 

I believe just a couple of years ago she was still in the top 10 biggest ships (competing with her 2 Freedom class sister ships due to refits and extra tonnage), but now not only is she not in the top 10 biggest, she is not even in the top 30, nor is she even in RCIs top 10 due to all the newer and bigger ships.

 

BTW Indy was my first ship I sailed on.

 

My first cruise was on the one-year old Liberty of the Seas. At the time she was Royals largest cruise ship as Oasis was still over a year away & Indy had just come out.

 

She now ranks #14 in size out of Royals 28 ships, placing her solidly mid-pack. So she's not small but not sure she can be considered large either. I would say mid-size.

 

Is she still a mega-ship? Debatable but for those that only think in terms of small vs large, I guess she could be considered a mini-Mega Ship🙂

 

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

I sailed on Voyager during her maiden year when she was the largest cruise ship in the world and old time cruisers said she was too large and not for them! My first cruise was on Monarch of the Seas and it was considered large! I think there are two strains of thought here some who want small and others who want smaller and they get confused. Indy is certainly not small but I guess to new cruisers who only know the mega ships it is small. 

 

But that is why the definition of small vs large has to evolve. Monarch and her sister ships are considered Royals first mega ship back in the day. So does that make the similar-size Vision class mega-ships? Of course not.  Yesterdays big ships are today's small ships.

 

[SUgwoz]

If Royal unveils a smaller ship with under 4k capacity, with all the updated technology/features they are able to include, longer itineraries to smaller ports, ect.  Do you expect the price to be cheaper than what you see with Icon?   

Edited July 18 by SUgwoz

[smokeybandit]

5 minutes ago, SUgwoz said:

Currently the consensus is that Royals new ships pricing is approaching luxury lines.

That's not really true. 

[Biker19]

10 minutes ago, SUgwoz said:

Do you expect the price to be cheaper than what you see with Icon?   

Maybe not at first. Like most ships, once the "newness" wears off pricing should come down.

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, Biker19 said:

Maybe not at first. Like most ships, once the "newness" wears off pricing should come down.

Star isn't even out yet and is already cheaper than Icon

[SUgwoz]

7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

That's not really true. 

Fair enough, I have removed that line.

[Biker19]

6 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Star isn't even out yet and is already cheaper than Icon

From September 2025 - the other months are sorta similar:

 

[Nettee]

I caveat this by saying I have only sailed radiance, voyager and freedom class ships.  But I have enjoyed the sea views on these ships (Viking crown longe, Windjammer windows/outdoor area, main dining room windows and the promenade deck and have the impression that there are less of these spaces on Oasis, Quantum and Icon class (perhaps unfairly especially for Quantum with 270 and the outdoor part of windjammer).  If they build a new smaller ship with more balconies will you get the windows/open air spaces in public areas?  I guess we won’t know until we see the deck plans but I would hope so otherwise it would be the worst of both worlds.

[smokeybandit]

7 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

From September 2025 - the other months are sorta similar:

 

Maybe now. But when I booked Star for 2026 it was significantly cheaper than a similar Icon cruise for that same week.

[SUgwoz]

15 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Maybe not at first. Like most ships, once the "newness" wears off pricing should come down.

Certainly possible, but if there is only 1-3 ships available that will be pretty unique.  Oasis class has several in its class but Wonder still garners a premium a couple years later after deployment. 

 

By the time they are able to build 2 of these and have them deployed all the current small classes (if you don't include freedom class) will be 25-30 years old (with last renovation taking place 15+ years ago). The difference between these ships and those classes will be night and day.

 

It would seem these would stay a premium for longer.  Remember less cruises (longer average trips), less cabins available.

 

I just envision Celebrity class pricing, but with amenities in line with Royal.  They are not going to make unique MDR menus, windjammer, ect for one ship class.

[compman9]

Lots of speculation, and only a couple of facts I am aware of.

 

Bayley said on the President's cruise that from initial conversations to roll-out is about 8 years. For those that have been monitoring [inc. a Covid hold up] that would mean around 2030 (ties in nicely with 2028 Oasis, and flexibility of an extra couple of years if another Icon/Oasis is wanted)

 

He also said the discussions started with a 'smaller' ship, this changed to a 'larger' and most recently it's larger again. This means little, but he also tied in with the answer that another world cruise would require more balcony cabins and isn't likely in the foreseeable. This would direct conclusions to Freedom/Quantum-ish. He was also well aware of the age of some of the smaller ships but did not take the opportunity to link the new class within this discussion. 

 

Both Bayley and Schneider spoke at length about their happiness with the neighbourhoods direction of travel. My personal speculation is they will want to incorporate this as much as possible by maybe cherry-picking most popular aspects.

 

 

[smokeybandit]

18 minutes ago, compman9 said:

Both Bayley and Schneider spoke at length about their happiness with the neighbourhoods direction of travel. My personal speculation is they will want to incorporate this as much as possible by maybe cherry-picking most popular aspects.

And I think you could do this on even a Voyager style ship. Just not nearly as robust of course.

[Hoopster95]

59 minutes ago, Nettee said:

I caveat this by saying I have only sailed radiance, voyager and freedom class ships.  But I have enjoyed the sea views on these ships (Viking crown longe, Windjammer windows/outdoor area, main dining room windows and the promenade deck and have the impression that there are less of these spaces on Oasis, Quantum and Icon class (perhaps unfairly especially for Quantum with 270 and the outdoor part of windjammer).

 

You should try a Q Class ship. Quantum Class is Radiance Class on steroids...

 

Two70 is amazing, The Solarium is the best in the fleet, the views from everywhere within the inside of the SeaPlex are great on both levels, Q/Ovation & Anthem have outdoor seating at the back of the WJ. The view from inside the WJ is superb, the views from the hot tubs are excellent (I watched whales from the Solarium hot tub at the front overlooking the bow), and the view from even the indoor pool area is great with glass roof and huge windows all around surrounding the top deck. Quantum Class is much better than Radiance and Voyager/Freedom regarding outwards views from inside.

 

 

[Hoopster95]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

That's not really true. 

 

A few years ago I sailed two Oceania sailings in PH suites with their OLife product... grats, internet, drink package, specialty dining, excursions... all included. At that time I priced out an Oasis Class ship in a grand suite (a little smaller and way less luxurios than Oceania penthouse suites) and added Royal's drink package, internet, grats etc to match Oceania. Guess which cruise line's per diem was less expensive? I posted the results several times here on CC with actual prices/costs.

 

I am not familiar with Oceania's new product "Simply More", however it looks exactly the same as the OLife offering. I just looked at a 7 day on January on Sirena out of Barbados... superb itinerary. I also just looked at a 7 day on Icon in January. Very close to the same price in a balcony, however you get all inclusive on Oceania.

 

Conversely, let's compare just within the Royal family of ships....

• Icon Nov 30, 2024 7 day sailing, solo/interior/DP340 = $2900 ($414 per day)
• Freedom Dec 1, 2024 6 day sailing, solo/interior/DP340 = $660 (($110 per day)

 

Supply and demand? Gouging? Why this gross disparity?