Is princess bilding new small ships?

[Guest ldtr]

20 minutes ago, VibeGuy said:

If demand for exotic itineraries could sustain something the size of Island / RCI’s Radiance-class (Panamax), lines might be able to thread the needle and offer a broad library of interesting product at, say, $225/night vs $300.  HAL is the logical place in Carnivore Corp & plc to do so. 

Which is where HAL appears to be positioning itself

[gottagoacruzn]

Well, I for one prefer the smaller ones, don't like them mega ships. Just wonderin whose tryin be the next titanic to go down? Then they gonna ask, why & how come? Seems nobody is thinkin, I thought that's what the brain is for.

[latebuyer]

As a solo traveller i just don't find holland america very solo friendly. Its probably the least solo friendly line. Hopefully other lines keep some small ships too. It should take awhile for ships to age out at least.

[fpsphil]

I would love to see Princess dust off the blueprints of the Sapphire/Diamond and build something similar again

[Guest ldtr]

14 minutes ago, latebuyer said:

As a solo traveller i just don't find holland america very solo friendly. Its probably the least solo friendly line. Hopefully other lines keep some small ships too. It should take awhile for ships to age out at least.

The premium lines, mass market not so much

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, fpsphil said:

I would love to see Princess dust off the blueprints of the Sapphire/Diamond and build something similar again

I do not think that Princess will be bring back the grand class, not even the built in Japan versions

[fpsphil]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

I do not think that Princess will be bring back the grand class, not even the built in Japan versions

It’s a pipe dream

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, fpsphil said:

It’s a pipe dream

No its a 筒 dream

[MindyJohn]

7 hours ago, RedIguana said:

Was on the Rotterdam March of 2022. Wonderful ship. I was on the Crown out of Vancouver a few weeks ago. No problem with the bridge. I believe Ovation of the Seas was also sailing out of Vancouver, and she is pretty big at 168K tons or so (pictures going under the bridge are in a few posts). Not sure if there are tide height restrictions though.

I've read Ovation has retractable stacks and for sure they schedule according to the tide.  They're only in Vancouver at the beginning and the end of their Alaska season.  Weekly departures are from Seattle.

[RedIguana]

15 hours ago, VibeGuy said:

The other problem is more complicated than just size alone.  Enter Seymour Narrows.  It’s a channel about 2/3rds of the way up Vancouver Island and, for a variety reasons (geographic, hydrologic, meteorological) of  it is one of the more challenging stretches of water to navigate in vessels of any size.  The water flow is exceptionally turbulent.   In vessels with azimuthing propulsion, full engine power can be directed in any direction.  In vessels with conventional fixed propellers, like every Princess ship to date, directional control is mostly limited to the rudder and asymmetric thrust between the propellers.   Expert opinion from local pilots is that the manoeuvrability of the Royal class is insufficient relative to size and the conditions likely to be encountered in the Narrows and they won’t provide pilotage.  No pilotage, the insurers won’t cover the ship.  Technically it fits, technically they’re allowed to sail the waters, but if you can’t use a pilot and the insurance pools say you need to use a pilot in certain waters, this is where you end up.

I remember reading some of the Pilot reports from a few years back when they were trying to get the Royal approved. I was shocked that Princess was still building ships without azipods. I know the larger ships avoid the narrows and travel the Gulf of Alaska side. On Crown last month we went the outside leaving Vancouver and the narrows coming back, I assume it might have something to do with the current speed in the direction of travel (who wants to fight an 11 knot current?). The Crown was actually using tugs for docking assistance, something I haven't seen in ages (most cruises on RCL). 

[DCThunder]

15 hours ago, latebuyer said:

As a solo traveller i just don't find holland america very solo friendly. Its probably the least solo friendly line. Hopefully other lines keep some small ships too. It should take awhile for ships to age out at least.

I spent 31 days on a HAL ship as a solo in March/April and had a GREAT time.  I met and shared dinner tables with a lot of nice people and never felt excluded.  Perhaps longer cruises build more camaraderie among the passengers, but we also had a very active Roll Call ahead of the trip and booked a lot of shore excursions together.

[latebuyer]

I just read norwegian made a new ship called norwegian viva and this only holds 3200. It should be available this summer. So maybe they are not making as big ships as royal caribbean.

[damiross]

2 hours ago, RedIguana said:

 I was shocked that Princess was still building ships without azipods.. 

I had no idea what am Azipod was so I looked it up.  Azipod is a brand name. Could Princess be using another brand of thruster pod?

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, latebuyer said:

I just read norwegian made a new ship called norwegian viva and this only holds 3200. It should be available this summer. So maybe they are not making as big ships as royal caribbean.

3200 is not a monstrosity of the seas, but it hardly qualifies as small.

 

They actually already built the Prima (the Viva is in the Prima class) at about the same size. Yes it is smaller than the ships they had been building, the Breakaway class and the Epic, but hardly what anyone would call small.

[RedIguana]

1 hour ago, damiross said:

I had no idea what am Azipod was so I looked it up.  Azipod is a brand name. Could Princess be using another brand of thruster pod?

No, they are still using traditional shaft and rudders (with both bow and stern thrusters I believe, but not positive on the stern thrusters). I am not sure what they are using on the new one coming out (Princess Sun?), as they may have gone to Azipods for their newbuilds. Azipods is a brand name, but also used generically for Azimuth thrusters (kinda like how coke can be used for any soda). 

 

Edit: did a little google, the Sun will have Azipods and bow thrusters. Any ship with Azipods does not require stern thrusters obviously

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by RedIguana

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, latebuyer said:

I just read norwegian made a new ship called norwegian viva and this only holds 3200. It should be available this summer. So maybe they are not making as big ships as royal caribbean.

Not as large as Royal, but still bigger than the Princess Grand class and 142,000 tons and 3215 lower bunk capacity, Though a little less capacity than the expanded Grand class such as the Crown which comes in at 3400.

 

Also keep in mind that the 3215 is lower bunk capacity on a cruise line that is family focused.  Full capacity is 3950.  Since it is family focused it will sail closer to the upper limit than a Princess ship will tend to.

[VibeGuy]

Princess looked like Luddites for not adopting azimuthing podded propulsion, and then the bearing failures started.    I believe every line that had pods cancelled cruises or changed itineraries over it, and the pod manufacturers paid out a lot of damages and covered upgrade costs during early life dry dock.  The bugs are worked out now so it makes sense to use them for the Sun and Star.    The limitations of the Royal class for Alaska are real and adding maneuverability that pilots everywhere are extremely comfortable with (vs, say, a Becker rudder) should make the new builds more agile even though the “sail area” is going to increase relative to the Royals. 

[PMGS247]

Unfortunately it seems like the most profitable move currently is to build larger and larger ships.  Feels like at some point that'll hit a tipping point and there'll be a surge in demand for smaller ships.  I can just see cruise lines like Princess trying to market new smaller ships as some sort of increased luxury option, i.e. smaller ship, bigger fares.  If they do it right and provide the right value for the cost, could be a good option, but it's hard to imagine them just going back and building more of the older ship designs without somehow finding a way to make them bigger $ generators.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, PMGS247 said:

Unfortunately it seems like the most profitable move currently is to build larger and larger ships.  Feels like at some point that'll hit a tipping point and there'll be a surge in demand for smaller ships.  I can just see cruise lines like Princess trying to market new smaller ships as some sort of increased luxury option, i.e. smaller ship, bigger fares.  If they do it right and provide the right value for the cost, could be a good option, but it's hard to imagine them just going back and building more of the older ship designs without somehow finding a way to make them bigger $ generators.

There is a surge in demand for small ships.  It is taking place with the premium and luxury lines.  If you want them you have to move your price point up.

[cruisingrob21]

9 hours ago, RedIguana said:

I remember reading some of the Pilot reports from a few years back when they were trying to get the Royal approved. I was shocked that Princess was still building ships without azipods. I know the larger ships avoid the narrows and travel the Gulf of Alaska side. On Crown last month we went the outside leaving Vancouver and the narrows coming back, I assume it might have something to do with the current speed in the direction of travel (who wants to fight an 11 knot current?). The Crown was actually using tugs for docking assistance, something I haven't seen in ages (most cruises on RCL). 

The last Sitmar ship (ss Fairsky II, which became the original ss Sky Princess) was steam powered.  Yep, designed in the 80s using steam power - the SS Sky Princess.  The Sitmar technical branch was comfortable with that technology and supposedly had felt confident in their operating staff to manage it.  Princess bought Sitmar shortly after the Fairsky started sailing.  I'm sure at the time most folks in the industry thought the Sitmar folks were stuck in their ways.  Princess knew what they bought when they got 3 steamships in the deal - but I doubt there were technical reasons for the acquisition, probably more business related to squash a competitive peer.  Fortunately, the next Sitmar ship, the Fair Majesty, was still in design and it was possible to change to a motor ship before she debuted as the first Star Princess.  

 

 

But as you stated, Princess developing a class of 6 ships without azipods (when the technology had been around since the late 90s) was a bit of a goof. 

 

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

14 minutes ago, cruisingrob21 said:

The last Sitmar ship (ss Fairsky II, which became the original ss Sky Princess) was steam powered.  Yep, designed in the 80s using steam power - the SS Sky Princess.  The Sitmar technical branch was comfortable with that technology and supposedly had felt confident in their operating staff to manage it.  Princess bought Sitmar shortly after the Fairsky started sailing.  I'm sure at the time most folks in the industry thought the Sitmar folks were stuck in their ways.  Princess knew what they bought when they got 3 steamships in the deal - but I doubt there were technical reasons for the acquisition, probably more business related to squash a competitive peer.  Fortunately, the next Sitmar ship, the Fair Majesty, was still in design and it was possible to change to a motor ship before she debuted as the first Star Princess.  

 

 

But as you stated, Princess developing a class of 6 ships without azipods (when the technology had been around since the late 90s) was a bit of a goof. 

 

 

 

Except there were a number of failures with Azipod equipped ships around the same time that the Royal class was being designed.  Celebrity had several cruises canceled as a result of such problems around that time.  That probably had an impact.

[brisalta]

5 hours ago, ldtr said:

Not as large as Royal, but still bigger than the Princess Grand class and 142,000 tons and 3215 lower bunk capacity, Though a little less capacity than the expanded Grand class such as the Crown which comes in at 3400.

 

Also keep in mind that the 3215 is lower bunk capacity on a cruise line that is family focused.  Full capacity is 3950.  Since it is family focused it will sail closer to the upper limit than a Princess ship will tend to.

 

The Crown Princess is the first of the Crown Class which is derived from the Grand Class design.

[PMGS247]

40 minutes ago, ldtr said:

There is a surge in demand for small ships.  It is taking place with the premium and luxury lines.  If you want them you have to move your price point up.

Yeah that’s kind of what I was saying. Specifically here on princess it would require some new marketing to justify a higher price point for a smaller ship. Until then I think they’re just going to keep building bigger.

[Guest ldtr]

35 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

The Crown Princess is the first of the Crown Class which is derived from the Grand Class design.

Basically it is the Grand Class with 2 more decks added. Have seen it both referred to in both ways. Usually as the Grand Class with 3 subclasses.

[nasa1974]

4 hours ago, cruisingrob21 said:

The last Sitmar ship (ss Fairsky II, which became the original ss Sky Princess) was steam powered.  Yep, designed in the 80s using steam power - the SS Sky Princess.  The Sitmar technical branch was comfortable with that technology and supposedly had felt confident in their operating staff to manage it.  Princess bought Sitmar shortly after the Fairsky started sailing.  I'm sure at the time most folks in the industry thought the Sitmar folks were stuck in their ways.  Princess knew what they bought when they got 3 steamships in the deal - but I doubt there were technical reasons for the acquisition, probably more business related to squash a competitive peer.  Fortunately, the next Sitmar ship, the Fair Majesty, was still in design and it was possible to change to a motor ship before she debuted as the first Star Princess.  

 

 

But as you stated, Princess developing a class of 6 ships without azipods (when the technology had been around since the late 90s) was a bit of a goof. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the video.