Celebrity's new "All Inclusive" 2023 style

[tserface]

5 hours ago, the penguins said:

Your suggested "inclusions "would reduce choice and increase costs

Excursions: we never book X's excursions.

 Speciality restaurants can seat around 30% of passengers so charging everyone makes no sense. 

WiFi: we don't need WiFi included and doing so would also penalise Elite and above by removing one of the perks.

Drink tips: should be paid by those ordering the drinks - the more you drink the more you pay. Pay by the drink or book a package - your choice.

 

Including things someone else already has doesn’t penalize the person who already has the benefit.  Elite and above would still get internet, and, perhaps more and better internet if it was included.  This assumes the new price isn’t substantially more for the added benefits.

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, hubofhockey said:

All they have announced so far is that gratuities will not be part of any inclusive package.  If they came out with new policies on WIFI/Drinks with Aqua, I haven’t heard it.

 

Gratuities should be included in the price of a cruise - period.  Agreed on excursions - your tipping should be on your own.  Should be included in all services on the ship though.  

X announced on 1 September that from 4 October Aqua will have the choice of Sail Only rates. Only suites will then not have that option.

[the penguins]

19 minutes ago, tserface said:

Including things someone else already has doesn’t penalize the person who already has the benefit.  Elite and above would still get internet, and, perhaps more and better internet if it was included.  This assumes the new price isn’t substantially more for the added benefits.

Of course it does. X won't provide internet without charging for it. Even if X reduced the price to $10 per person per day as we generally do a minimum of 12 nights that's $240 for zero benefit.

X has already experimented with your idea with its thankfully short lived compolsary AI for all cabin grades. That scheme resulted in such a backlash that X was forced to confirm that "we appreciate that not everyone wants or needs a drinks package nor unlimited WiFi and are working to correct this". The correction resulted in the removal of compolsary AI for all cabins below Aqua and now from 4 October also from Aqua.

[the penguins]

37 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

That may be true for you, but it's almost unheard of for the generation they're trying to attract. I'm 60 and wouldn't dream of staying at a hotel where I had to pay for internet (rare exception for mandatory destination or resort fees which I really consider part of the room cost). I remember when hotels considered internet a revenue center; it's a cost center now and they pretty much have to offer it to most customers to get them in the door. Many of them (Marriott, for instance) give free basic internet and charge for enhanced, with a free upgrade for their higher tier elite members. It will only take a few cruise lines including internet in their fare for it to become the norm on ships as well. (Yes, most airlines still charge for it, but add on fees have become so normal there that I hope it's not a good precedent.)

You really can't compare ships with hotels the cost of providing WiFi at sea is far higher.

You say you would never stay in a hotel that charges for WiFi so what do you do when you cruise with X?

Presumably you just book Sail Only rates and have no WiFi.

Fortunately all this speculation on what X will or won't do will be resolved on 4 October after which we will all be able to decide exactly what our future relationship will be. 

 

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, the penguins said:

You really can't compare ships with hotels the cost of providing WiFi at sea is far higher.

You say you would never stay in a hotel that charges for WiFi so what do you do when you cruise with X?

Presumably you just book Sail Only rates and have no WiFi.

Fortunately all this speculation on what X will or won't do will be resolved on 4 October after which we will all be able to decide exactly what our future relationship will be. 

 

I book a fare that includes Wi-Fi (AI). I’ll book a hotel with a resort fee if I have to, usually because I have no choice or there are major overarching reasons. But if I have a choice of two properties and one wants to stack a bunch of fees beyond the room rate, especially Wi-Fi, I go to the other property, assuming comparable rates, of course. And usually I’ve gotten better rates at the property without the junk fees anyway. 
 

We’re talking past each other. The high cost of providing internet at sea is clearly an issue, to Celebrity. But the folks they’re targeting in the future don’t (may not, to be fair) know that or care. Internet is simply there. And always has been. I can be guilty of looking at the business’ side of things, but the consumer pretty much expects internet to just be there with the cost of the room. 
 

October 4 will be interesting. 

[hcat]

we do get  basic wifi as E  plus so never needed that part of All In

[hubofhockey]

1 hour ago, markeb said:

 

The same announcement on gratuities included new policies for AI (without gratuities) to be optional in Aqua. That's pages down by now.

Thanks, I just googled it.  It’s too late for my cruise next May, but better going forward.  The change I dislike the most is making the entire amount of the non refundable deposit forfeitable. I suppose the answer to that is purchasing the future cruise credit and using that for the deposit.  

[MamaFej]

On 9/9/2023 at 10:37 AM, markeb said:

 

All true. But dropping the tips and leaving the fare at the same rate, or worse raising the fares on October 4th would be so insane as to be inconceivable. It's possible, but it's not a foregone conclusion as so many jumped on in this thread. 

 

Yes, I assume fares will go up in time. And bounce around as usual. And occasionally include gratuities as a promo. And in six months (or less), they'll do something else, maybe even return to the previous AI with a different name. Because they're focusing on operations instead of a long term strategy. Maybe the strategy so many of us loved wasn't actually a successful business model. And banks and institutional investors want to be paid and see an ROE. 

 

And there will be pressure on the TA community to pay the gratuities on their group bookings and eat into their commission. Since many if not most travelers won't have seen the TA FAQs and blame their TA, not Celebrity. Which is actually brilliant in a way.

"So Insane as to Be Inconceivable" sounds like a more apropos tagline than "Modern Luxury" these days. 

 

 

But, seriously, I'm hoping that X will come up with ways to listen to their customers (not guests) and go back, or forward, to a way of doing business that makes more of us want to return to them with our hard earned money, ensuring profitability and ROI for shareholders. 

[doghog]

11 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

"So Insane as to Be Inconceivable" sounds like a more apropos tagline than "Modern Luxury" these days. 

 

 

But, seriously, I'm hoping that X will come up with ways to listen to their customers (not guests) and go back, or forward, to a way of doing business that makes more of us want to return to them with our hard earned money, ensuring profitability and ROI for shareholders. 

Modern Luxury tag line has been replaced by, "Journey Safe, Journey Wonderfull". 

[Dolebludger]

The trend in cruise lines at this time seems to be adding more inclusions, not fewer. Example: Oceania recently added included beer and wine at lunch and dinner in their base rate to keep up with Viking in the premium class, while still offering a true AI package at additional cost.   For some reason, Celebrity seems to be going against the trend. Celebrity’s fare structure makes it complicated. We can book a 7 nighter in an inside room for much less than $1000 pp. Wouldn’t expect much included for that price. Or we could book a Retreat suite for several $thousand.  (many $thousands for a larger suite on a newer ship). For that pricing, we would expect EVERYTHING to be included. But that is not quite the case — not at all the case next month when tips won’t even be included for new bookings. I don’t see how Celebrity can compete in this price range (the lux class) when all competitors in that class include tips in the fare, and some even include things like air and shore excursions. And isn’t it going to be an accounting nightmare next Spring when some guests have included tips and some don’t?

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

we do get  basic wifi as E  plus so never needed that part of All In

The E benefit is actually premium WiFi not the basic. Only difference is 90 minutes each for E and 240 minutes each for E+. A great benefit.

Also, if like us you can't drink any alcohol, the E+ benefit of free speciality teas/coffees/chocolate and water from 5 to 7 in unopened cans/bottles makes a drinks package totally unnecessary.

 I find it hard to believe that the majority of X's passengers can't do the maths (sorry math) and work out which option is best for them - lots of tips on other threads to help.

One size doesn't fit all - The main thing is to have choices. Happy cruising.

[Jeremiah1212]

33 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

The trend in cruise lines at this time seems to be adding more inclusions, not fewer. Example: Oceania recently added included beer and wine at lunch and dinner in their base rate to keep up with Viking in the premium class, while still offering a true AI package at additional cost.   For some reason, Celebrity seems to be going against the trend. Celebrity’s fare structure makes it complicated. We can book a 7 nighter in an inside room for much less than $1000 pp. Wouldn’t expect much included for that price. Or we could book a Retreat suite for several $thousand.  (many $thousands for a larger suite on a newer ship). For that pricing, we would expect EVERYTHING to be included. But that is not quite the case — not at all the case next month when tips won’t even be included for new bookings. I don’t see how Celebrity can compete in this price range (the lux class) when all competitors in that class include tips in the fare, and some even include things like air and shore excursions. And isn’t it going to be an accounting nightmare next Spring when some guests have included tips and some don’t?

 

Celebrity isn't competing in the lux space. Not by a long shot. MSC Yacht Club, NCL Haven, Oceania, Cunard, Viking, etc. do not include gratuities. There are a lot of people among Retreat and Haven alone that want the bigger ship experience. Small ships, long itineraries, odd embarkation ports, lack of activities, average pax age and included excursions and not selling points for people many people who will still pay for a Retreat/Haven priced product. Royal Caribbean Group's position is the actual lux market is Silversea. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Jeremiah1212

[Dolebludger]

And Silversea has a great cruise product. Been there! 

[MamaFej]

45 minutes ago, the penguins said:

The E benefit is actually premium WiFi not the basic. Only difference is 90 minutes each for E and 240 minutes each for E+. A great benefit.

Also, if like us you can't drink any alcohol, the E+ benefit of free speciality teas/coffees/chocolate and water from 5 to 7 in unopened cans/bottles makes a drinks package totally unnecessary.

 I find it hard to believe that the majority of X's passengers can't do the maths (sorry math) and work out which option is best for them - lots of tips on other threads to help.

One size doesn't fit all - The main thing is to have choices. Happy cruising.

[hcat]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

The E benefit is actually premium WiFi not the basic. Only difference is 90 minutes each for E and 240 minutes each for E+. A great benefit.

Also, if like us you can't drink any alcohol, the E+ benefit of free speciality teas/coffees/chocolate and water from 5 to 7 in unopened cans/bottles makes a drinks package totally unnecessary.

 I find it hard to believe that the majority of X's passengers can't do the maths (sorry math) and work out which option is best for them - lots of tips on other threads to help.

One size doesn't fit all - The main thing is to have choices. Happy cruising.

ha.. did not know it was Premium wifi for E+..maybe that will be better than what comes with our " all in" pricing.  Hope wd can figure out how to  activate the correct perk.

DH does drink beer and Scotch but not in great quabtity..sowe may not beed alc package in the future..guess we'll have to do the math if we book after Oct 4th

[Dolebludger]

Well, the way things are going with Celebrity and the Retreat, I’ll never be “E”. Yeah, I know that the Retreat is not a fully lux cruise, and never was. But it used to be priced enough lower than a true lux line that we liked it and could overlook some things for the savings. But no more. Now, the retreat is priced equal or higher than true lux lines, including Silversea. So we are not in a forgiving mood when inclusions are cut by Celebrity.

[GonzoWCS]

On 9/7/2023 at 8:56 AM, awhcruiser said:

Most people already know  about this.  As stated above numerous threads have been started.

I didnt...

[Dolebludger]

Understandable. Celebrity has been removing inclusions and perks faster than many of us can keep up. If anyone wants to book with them in light if what us going on, they need a good TA to check what is (and isn’t) included as of the date if booking. It seems to change weekly. Sad.

[Guera53]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:32 PM, Keys Kathy said:

Celebrity is starting their new "All Inclusive" on Oct 4th. 

 

If I am reading it correctly, it looks like the only things included are a drink package and wifi. No more tips. I am sure the price for AI hasn't dropped. Another rip-off from X. Thoughts?

 

ENHANCED FLEXIBILITY AND CHOICE

 

Starting October 4, 2023, newly purchased All Included packages 
will include our most popular amenities, Classic Drinks and Basic Wi-Fi 
for all guests in the stateroom. These inclusions will continue to provide 
a significant savings of $200-$800 per person compared 
to onboard pricing.

Somebody said the classic drinks package only covers up to a certain amount and that they had to pay extra over that amount? Ha ha…sorry so funny how ridiculous. You pay a lot and it only includes beer, and no wine and a cocktail has a $7+ up charge? That is not inclusive for someone who drinks. 

 

Basic Wi-Fi doesn’t stream shows, and I can use the Wi-Fi at port to check email, as my cruise is non working. 
 

No reason for me to get any package….nope.
 

 

[hubofhockey]

5 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

The trend in cruise lines at this time seems to be adding more inclusions, not fewer. Example: Oceania recently added included beer and wine at lunch and dinner in their base rate to keep up with Viking in the premium class, while still offering a true AI package at additional cost.   For some reason, Celebrity seems to be going against the trend. Celebrity’s fare structure makes it complicated. We can book a 7 nighter in an inside room for much less than $1000 pp. Wouldn’t expect much included for that price. Or we could book a Retreat suite for several $thousand.  (many $thousands for a larger suite on a newer ship). For that pricing, we would expect EVERYTHING to be included. But that is not quite the case — not at all the case next month when tips won’t even be included for new bookings. I don’t see how Celebrity can compete in this price range (the lux class) when all competitors in that class include tips in the fare, and some even include things like air and shore excursions. And isn’t it going to be an accounting nightmare next Spring when some guests have included tips and some don’t?

We have our first Oceania cruise booked and gratuities were not included.  Online TA added it in as a promotion, along with $1,050 refundable OBC.  I don’t think Celebrity’s pricing structure will be complicated in October.  Basically, nothing will be included.  

[NMTraveller]

7 hours ago, markeb said:

I book a fare that includes Wi-Fi (AI). I’ll book a hotel with a resort fee if I have to, usually because I have no choice or there are major overarching reasons. But if I have a choice of two properties and one wants to stack a bunch of fees beyond the room rate, especially Wi-Fi, I go to the other property, assuming comparable rates, of course. And usually I’ve gotten better rates at the property without the junk fees anyway. 
 

We’re talking past each other. The high cost of providing internet at sea is clearly an issue, to Celebrity. But the folks they’re targeting in the future don’t (may not, to be fair) know that or care. Internet is simply there. And always has been. I can be guilty of looking at the business’ side of things, but the consumer pretty much expects internet to just be there with the cost of the room. 
 

October 4 will be interesting. 

Still trying to figure out why October 4th matters.  They can add the fees back in whenever they want...

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Still trying to figure out why October 4th matters.  They can add the fees back in whenever they want...

True. It’s just the first day of the new system and I actually expect a status quo. For 30-60 days…

[NMTraveller]

10 minutes ago, markeb said:

True. It’s just the first day of the new system and I actually expect a status quo. For 30-60 days…

Well if the prices did drop by the $400 to $500 for gratuities...  I would probably look at a group booking as a previous poster thought that the gratuities would be still included through the end of the year.

 

Purchasing a group booking at the same price as the Celebrity website and then getting AI included is a rather good deal.  Even better if gratuities are still included and prices have been reduced.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by NMTraveller

[the penguins]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Still trying to figure out why October 4th matters.  They can add the fees back in whenever they want...

All bookings made from that date will be using the new pricing structure from that date: 

AI will be classic drinks and WiFi only

You will be able to prepay tips but we don't know exactly how/when.

AI prices will be adjusted to allow for tips being removed but we don't know exactly by how much.

Bookings made before the change will be under the old system.

[the penguins]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Well if the prices did drop by the $400 to $500 for gratuities...  I would probably look at a group booking as a previous poster thought that the gratuities would be still included through the end of the year.

 

Purchasing a group booking at the same price as the Celebrity website and then getting AI included is a rather good deal.  Even better if gratuities are still included and prices have been reduced.

 

This is pure speculation.