What happened to awesome cruise experience?

[sparks1093]

14 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

You brought up the sailor bar initially not me

Yes, I know, and you missed the reason why I brought it up, but that's ok, it's not the end of the world.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

He took offense to my comparison with a private yacht.  Your comment about a sailor bar swings to the other extreme. I have been in sailor bars and there is nothing in that experience that has gone forth in the rest of my life.  I went, I watched, I took my go cup and I exited quietly and quickly 

I took no offense - I merely questioned the appropriateness of your likening  travel on a private yacht with cruising:  other than both involving being on the water there is minimal similarity.

[Mary229]

45 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I took no offense - I merely questioned the appropriateness of your likening  travel on a private yacht with cruising:  other than both involving being on the water there is minimal similarity.

I accept that and my point was more to the effort to use appearances to determine wealth.  My original comment was more in response to the gentleman who works for a line and whose comments seem to indicate he uses “brand identity” and “new fashion” in efforts to determine level of service.  That is ,imho, foolish and hopefully not in accordance with the wishes of management.  I really have to believe the dress code we are discussing is at base “clean and neat”

Edited October 17, 2023 by Mary229

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

No doubt, but we were discussing your comment that it's "an absurd pretense of what you wear makes the person is absurd". The point that @navybankerteacher was making (if I'm understanding him correctly) is that the relaxed dress codes on the mainstream lines contributes to behavioral issues on those lines. 

I think we should be clear that the relaxed dress codes also exist (to a lesser extent) on many of the luxury lines.  Consider that Seabourn recently relented and now allows jeans (albeit nice jeans) in their MDR.  The new Explora Journeys (a very luxury-like line) has a smart casual policy with no dressy or formal nights.  The big difference between the mass market lines is that nearly all the folks on luxury lines dress nicely and would probably not be caught dead (or alive) in wife-beater shirts, indoor baseball caps, shorts after 6, etc.  It is less of a "dress code" and more of those folks having some personal pride in how they look.

 

As to the behavioral issues, one might speculate that some of the mass market lines (and mega ships) encourage and even market a party atmosphere.  Some folks book those cruise lines for the purpose of "partying" day and night!  On our luxury cruises (we are talking several hundred cruise days) we have yet to witness even a single incident of a passenger who appeared intoxicated and out of control.  Ironically, on those luxury lines there is unlimited booze (usually of high quality) but their customers seem to understand the doctrine of "personal responsibility."

 

Hank

[LinRon3]

18 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I t.  It is less of a "dress code" and more of those folks having some personal pride in how they look.

 

 

 

Hank

Thanks Hank. I think this one sentence speaks volumes...and perhaps what I was getting at about 'tomatoes sprawling/rotting on the ground' [ie personal pride being a motivator for personal improvement, however it expresses itself]. When young, I questioned why military stresses things like hospital corners on beds and perfectly aligned lockers or trunks and spit shined shoes etc [in basic training], but yes, structure and self discipline goes hand in hand and perhaps it takes some training as we grow [me Mum pushing me to keep straight etc, ha].  Self esteem, pride, self worth...who wudda thunk things like that could be tied up in one's expression in how they 'appear' to others at dinner [or elsewhere on a ship...or walmart for that matter, LOL].  I'm probably referring more to the 'sloppy' guy with a humongous beer belly, golf hat and flip flops at dinner [not the buffet]...extremes; but I would argue that 'sloppiness' does express a deeper psyche based in that 'lack of pride' [and other psychological...uh...traits?].  Of course, might be a narrow margin between self pride and narcissism.  "Clean and Neat' I agree is a pretty safe starting point most of us can get behind.  

[Kristelle]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

No, it is not the same thing. Either have rules and enforce them, or do not have the rules.

 

I still remember from back in the 60s a professor saying in a seminar I was taking with him that the 2 worst laws ever are speeding and alternate side of the street parking. And the reason they are the worst is everyone breaks them with no consequences. And once you get used to the idea that they are no consequences for breaking a law, breaking the next law becomes easier.

  

I dont agree with that.

 

I think most people understand degree and context - because I can sometimes get away with being slightly over speed limit doesn't mean I think it is ok to go 100s of miles over it or that I think other laws are not worth keeping to.

 

Or the equivalent on this thread - just because  I get away without wearing a tie t o a place doesn't mean I think a swim suit would be ok or I change my behaviour in that place.

 

Interesting this 'dress codes make people better' idea on this thread

 

I don't agree with that either

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Yes, I know, and you missed the reason why I brought it up, but that's ok, it's not the end of the world.

I missed nothing.  One study in a situation that is far removed from the situation we are discussing does not move my needle on this topic.  My point was I have been on cruise ships and I have been in sailor bars - they are not alike in any way as to the clientele or any other aspect really.  No, not the end of the world 

[Toofarfromthesea]

How nice that this thread affords snobs the opportunity to look down their noses with disapproval.  Everyone needs an outlet.

[sparks1093]

35 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I missed nothing.  One study in a situation that is far removed from the situation we are discussing does not move my needle on this topic.  My point was I have been on cruise ships and I have been in sailor bars - they are not alike in any way as to the clientele or any other aspect really.  No, not the end of the world 

My anecdote was aimed only at showing how clothing does have an impact on how people behave, nothing more and nothing less. 

[Szt]

This thread is starting to border on the ridiculous. 
First, I don’t know where you live, but where I am if you park in the wrong side of the street during alternate parking- your car WILL be towed 100%! Or if there is a snowstorm, you car will be “moved” by a snow plow.

2nd, anyone who thinks money equals dressing nice and pride in one’s appearance has not been around many wealthy people. And if you think people with more money have more respect for others, you are sorely mistaken. There are all kinds of people in every financial bracket. It may be that people who book those “upscale” lines do so partly because they like rigidity and formal conventions. We can well afford those lines, but like the more relaxed attitude on the bigger lines. Point is, you can’t make generalizations about any group. 

[Szt]

6 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Hmmm, this quote made me think of a certain charter cruise that has MOST of its passengers naked MOST of the time.  😀 They have their own policies and guidelines for appropriate times and places to cover up, of course.

And that is certainly not a cruise I’d choose to take. But, to each his own. 😁

[Kristelle]

3 hours ago, Szt said:

2nd, anyone who thinks money equals dressing nice and pride in one’s appearance has not been around many wealthy people

 

I agree with your post - and on this point of dressing nice and pride in appearance, that is so subjective.

 

Some people seem to be equating nice and pride with formal and styles they approve of.