Sapphire skips Ketchikan

[snoodqueen]

Currently on Sapphire heading back to Vancouver.  Apparently a storm is heading our way so we are skipping Ketchikan today and going straight back.  That would be acceptable except the much smaller Volendam who trails us went into Ketchikan as scheduled.  If this storm is so serious, why don't they head home as well?  This is not the first time I've been on a Princess ship that skips ports while other cruise lines don't.  I appreciate not having a bumpy ride but it doesn't make sense that we are told each time that the decision comes from 'Corporate'.  Do they not have confidence in their Captains and crew?  I don't mind missing a port but it irks me when we didn't have to.

[BamaVol]

Sorry you missed out on a port. And a good one too. I read the disappointment in your post. But I always defer to the experts. Someone has to be concerned about the comfort and safety of thousands of people. I wouldn’t second guess that. 
 

We are confronted daily with different opinions. Democrat vs Republican. Ford vs Chevy. Sometimes the other guy was right. Sometimes not. But someone on your ship is as relieved as you are disappointed. 
 

Look at it this way. Bad weather is some other ship’s problem. Now you just have to worry whether the port fees will be refunded. 

[Sarnia 432]

We have just sailed through the other end of this storm.  Swells in excess of 5 meters and gale force winds of 50 knots gusting to 60 knots.  Trust in the Captain to keep you out of the worst of it

[no1racefan1]

If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

 

Just because somebody else makes a different decision, doesn't make it the right decision. Imagine if something happened to that other ship and/or passengers You'd be sure glad your captain made the safer decision.

 

I understand your disappointment and I would be disappointed to miss a port as well, but I've never captained a cruise ship, so I'm just going to trust they know how to make better informed decisions than I would.

[Rick&Jeannie]

I highly doubt that this would be a "corporate" decision. I would think (my opinion) that this would rest with the captain. 

[cruisingrob21]

Volendam is smaller and narrower and may be able to find a more sheltered route that the sapphire cannot - or has a wider margin of safety going through the inside passage.  Regardless, it's the captain's choice as they are ultimately responsible for the safety of the ship.  

 

As others have mentioned, be thankful you're avoiding the storm - it would likely be pretty lousy on shore anyways.

[MISTER 67]

1 hour ago, snoodqueen said:

Currently on Sapphire heading back to Vancouver.  Apparently a storm is heading our way so we are skipping Ketchikan today and going straight back.  That would be acceptable except the much smaller Volendam who trails us went into Ketchikan as scheduled.  If this storm is so serious, why don't they head home as well?  This is not the first time I've been on a Princess ship that skips ports while other cruise lines don't.  I appreciate not having a bumpy ride but it doesn't make sense that we are told each time that the decision comes from 'Corporate'.  Do they not have confidence in their Captains and crew?  I don't mind missing a port but it irks me when we didn't have to.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by MISTER 67

[cruisingrob21]

...It looks like the Nieuw Amsterdam is taking a protected course NB to avoid the worst of the storm.

 

[Outerdog]

Another consideration not mentioned so far is that while docking in Ketchikan may be feasible, the impact of the storm on the next port following the scheduled itinerary may be the bit that's causing concern. Thus, skipping a port and arriving early at the next.

 

This happened to us a couple of years ago. Skipped Victoria and headed straight back to SF. The docking in SF during a severe storm was the problematic part, not Victoria.

 

Sorry you're "irked" but this sort of thing is germane to causing. Get used to it.

[cruisingrob21]

Interesting, it appears the Sapphire is turning west to head out to open seas outside of the Dixon Entrance.  The captain might be trying to in the lee behind Haida Gwaii islands and then aim for the center of low pressure.  If the timing works, the storm will significantly weaken by the time the Sapphire makes it into the lower pressure center, if not, it'll be 2 very bumpy 4-6 hour rides separated by a somewhat calm respite.

 

The NA is still staying in protected waters for another few hours.  The westerdam is all out trying to beat the storm. 4 very different strategies between Volendam, Sapphire, Nieuw Amsterdam and Westerdam.

[Mike45LC]

I hope the Sapphire has a very comfortable cruise, and that the passengers never realize how severe the storm could have been if they had not changed course!   That is part of the captain's duty.

[cruisingrob21]

Never mind - captain turned back to the east

 

[Coral]

40 MPH winds. Not sure if I would want to be outside in that weather anyway.

[cruisingrob21]

And now she's heading far inland.  The westerdam is still soldiering north, ahead of the storm.

 

[beg3yrs]

15 hours ago, Coral said:

40 MPH winds. Not sure if I would want to be outside in that weather anyway.

We were on the Sapphire in January. Rounded Elephant Island heading for Antarctica and out of nowhere we ran into 100 knot winds and big waves. The wind could have been higher but that's the highest the ship's anemometer goes. Anyway, the Sapphire rides rough seas like a champ! According to Captain McBain, that extra beam she has over the other Grand class ships makes a big difference.

 

And yes, nobody wanted to be outside either.

[nasa1974]

During large storms the captain has to consider low and high tide as well. That can have a large effect on getting into and out of port. Also, how will the winds effect docking. Sorry you missed Ketchikan.

[chengkp75]

20 hours ago, Rick&Jeannie said:

I highly doubt that this would be a "corporate" decision. I would think (my opinion) that this would rest with the captain. 

Under the International Safety Management (ISM) of the IMO, the company develops a Safety Management System (SMS) that is required to put down in writing, virtually everything that the company does to conduct its business.  This means both corporate policies as well as the day to day operation of the ships.  This goes down to written policies as to how Guest Services handles complaints, as well as policies governing whether a ship can enter a port or not.  Now, also under the ISM, the Captain is given "overriding authority" to make on scene decisions that affect the safety of the vessel, crew, passengers and the environment (this means that no one in corporate can second guess or override a decision made by the Captain, in that moment.  So, there is a corporate policy that sets out what weather conditions will allow a ship to enter port, and the Captain is expected to follow these policies and procedures.  Now, he/she could make a decision to follow a personal, even more restrictive set of conditions, and not enter a port when the SMS says it would be okay, but he/she cannot apply a less  restrictive set of conditions, and expect to keep his/her job.

 

Since missing a port involves a large financial hit for the company, the Captain would not make this decision on his/her own, but would discuss it with corporate before coming to a decision.  So, yes, it would in fact be more of a corporate decision (through the SMS) than a decision solely by the Captain.

[voljeep]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Since missing a port involves a large financial hit for the company, the Captain would not make this decision on his/her own,

please provide the details of this missed port financial impact - other than refunding the few $$ of port fees as OBC

[chrysalis]

17 minutes ago, voljeep said:

please provide the details of this missed port financial impact - other than refunding the few $$ of port fees as OBC

excursions....dock photos....

[voljeep]

2 minutes ago, chrysalis said:

excursions....dock photos....

how much does Princess make on a $100 excursion?

 

dock photos?? 😄

 

more drinking and eating on board 'may' be an increase cost to Princess depending on packages ... made up by casino, spa, etc - 

[Seacruise]

I have been cruising to Alaska for almost 40 years. The Volendam is taking the true inside passage right now.
HAL has not gone to the larger ships because of the ability of the smaller ships to take routes such as this where Sapphire can not sail this route.
This morning I noticed Sapphire had slowed to 7 knots and had 5.1M waves. The webcam did not look well when it worked.
My other half is currently on the Volendam and messaged me a short time ago and said the outside decks are still closed even though it isn't rough. I suspect this is because once they pass by Calvert Island they will be entering open water for a couple of hours.

Very few ships today do the true inside passage. What the cruise lines call inside passage and what it really is are two different things. When cruises first started out of Seattle they called that first day inside passage. There was nothing inside about that route as the ships were in the open Pacific Ocean.

In this case it is all about size and size matters.

[Outerdog]

33 minutes ago, Seacruise said:

HAL has not gone to the larger ships because of the ability of the smaller ships to take routes such as this where Sapphire can not sail this route.

 

Sapphire is currently on course to navigate the Johnstone Strait and Seymour Narrows which are arguably as or more difficult to navigate than the current position of Volendam.

 

Sapphire could easily navigate the same course as Volendam is currently.

 

Also, the "Inside Passage" isn't limited to the east side of Vancouver Island. It runs from Olympia, WA to Skagway, AK and is the route along which you will find 99% of Alaska cruises.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Outerdog

[Coral]

7 hours ago, beg3yrs said:

We were on the Sapphire in January. Rounded Elephant Island heading for Antarctica and out of nowhere we ran into 100 knot winds and big waves. The wind could have been higher but that's the highest the ship's anemometer goes. Anyway, the Sapphire rides rough seas like a champ! According to Captain McBain, that extra beam she has over the other Grand class ships makes a big difference.

 

And yes, nobody wanted to be outside either.

I have always thought Japan makes better ships than Italy! I think the Sapphire and Diamond were definitely the gems amongst the Grand Class ships and I think they do ride better!

[waltd]

We were very happy with the way the Sapphire handled in the Antarctica last December.   You know how that area of the world can be.  So maybe you are right Coral.

[Nidwaldner]

31 minutes ago, waltd said:

We were very happy with the way the Sapphire handled in the Antarctica last December.   You know how that area of the world can be.  So maybe you are right Coral.

Good to hear since we're headed down to Antarctica on her this December!