Poll on Celebrity Cruises' President

[NMTraveller]

6 hours ago, tfred said:

then whats the point of your survey - a very narrow group of people with an even smaller subset that replies?  You know what the result would be without the poll 

A group of people who cruise a lot.  Not a bunch of new cruisers...

 

It was obvious what the results of the polls would be with the 100s of complaints on this board.

 

Previously the cruisers on this board were Celebrity fanatics.  Not anymore...  Bring in the new cruisers who have not cruised before and have low expectations...

 

Such a strategy can work in the short term, but not in the long run.

Edited October 20, 2023 by NMTraveller

[Jcafe]

We are Elite+ and have been loyal to X.  Due to Covid we have not cruised for the past 4 years; however, we are taking the APEX T/A next month.  We observed on our last cruise 4 years ago the decline in food and the upsell strategy of X. If we experience a further decline after sailing next month, this may be our last cruise, period.  I anticipate the competition are following the same suit.  
The past two years we have flown to Europe (Spain/Portugal) in the winter and stayed at 5* hotels (BonVoy) with full breakfast buffets, eating in local restaurants with ample liquor and paid similar cost to cruising. 
Similar to most Celebrity cruisers, we have been loyal to a fault due to their past quality service, CC benefits and overall customer service.  If we see a noticeable difference, our loyalty will go in another direction.  

[a350flyer]

15 minutes ago, Jcafe said:

We are Elite+ and have been loyal to X.  Due to Covid we have not cruised for the past 4 years; however, we are taking the APEX T/A next month.  We observed on our last cruise 4 years ago the decline in food and the upsell strategy of X. If we experience a further decline after sailing next month, this may be our last cruise, period.  I anticipate the competition are following the same suit.  
The past two years we have flown to Europe (Spain/Portugal) in the winter and stayed at 5* hotels (BonVoy) with full breakfast buffets, eating in local restaurants with ample liquor and paid similar cost to cruising. 
Similar to most Celebrity cruisers, we have been loyal to a fault due to their past quality service, CC benefits and overall customer service.  If we see a noticeable difference, our loyalty will go in another direction.  

Don't expect great authentic food on Apex, especially if you compare it to a five star experience in Spain and Portugal. Celebrity's food caters to an American contemporary palate. The food is not imaginative. Think Americanized and made with cheaper ingredients for mass production. Is it too late to cancel?

[georgiaguy]

Unscientific polls literally mean nothing. From the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at Cornell: 

 

Unscientific pseudo-polls are widespread and sometimes entertaining, but they never provide the kind of information that belongs in a serious report. Examples include 900-number call-in polls, man-on-the-street surveys, many Internet polls, shopping mall polls, and even the classic toilet tissue poll featuring pictures of the candidates on each roll.

One major distinguishing difference between scientific and unscientific polls is who picks the respondents for the survey. In a scientific poll, the pollster identifies and seeks out the people to be interviewed. In an unscientific poll, the respondents usually "volunteer" their opinions, selecting themselves for the poll.

[mjfship]

3 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

A group of people who cruise a lot.  Not a bunch of new cruisers...

 

It was obvious what the results of the polls would be with the 100s of complaints on this board.

 

Previously the cruisers on this board were Celebrity fanatics.  Not anymore...  Bring in the new cruisers who have not cruised before and have low expectations...

 

Such a strategy can work in the short term, but not in the long run.

New cruisers have low expectations?  Hmmmmmm, not following your logic.  Sorry.

[NMTraveller]

35 minutes ago, mjfship said:

New cruisers have low expectations?  Hmmmmmm, not following your logic.  Sorry.

New cruisers do not know of the high quality of the old Celebrity...  

 

Compare the new Celebrity to a land vacation and perhaps it is a toss up.

 

Seasoned Celebrity cruisers expect more ...

 

On my first Celebrity cruise I was blown away by the difference between a land vacation and a Celebrity cruise.  I don't think that is the case any more.

Edited October 21, 2023 by NMTraveller

[Oville]

9 hours ago, a350flyer said:

It would have been an assumption to know what people are thinking. We now have data to back up that assumption.

Have they all sailed on X, doubt it.

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, georgiaguy said:

Unscientific polls literally mean nothing. From the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at Cornell: 

 

Unscientific pseudo-polls are widespread and sometimes entertaining, but they never provide the kind of information that belongs in a serious report. Examples include 900-number call-in polls, man-on-the-street surveys, many Internet polls, shopping mall polls, and even the classic toilet tissue poll featuring pictures of the candidates on each roll.

One major distinguishing difference between scientific and unscientific polls is who picks the respondents for the survey. In a scientific poll, the pollster identifies and seeks out the people to be interviewed. In an unscientific poll, the respondents usually "volunteer" their opinions, selecting themselves for the poll.

Corporations that ignore social media are destined to failure.  That seems the path that Celebrity has taken.

 

We could use AI and ML to figure this out for them...

[NMTraveller]

8 minutes ago, Oville said:

Have they all sailed on X, doubt it.

So you don't think that all of the people that have posted a review of Celebrity and their MDR food have sailed on X.  Interesting.  Hundreds of negative reviews and they are fake?

 

How do you explain the posters who used to post positive reviews and they turned negative?

 

How do you explain the posters who only sailed X moving on to other lines?

Edited October 21, 2023 by NMTraveller

[georgiaguy]

8 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Corporations that ignore social media are destined to failure.  That seems the path that Celebrity has taken.

 

We could use AI and ML to figure this out for them...

 

Didnt say that they should ignore social media, just that this particular poll cant be taken as anything more entertainment. It most likely self selected those who are dissatisfied as those are who are most likely to respond. Imagine for a second a hypothetical that the full sample size was 2800 (the current number of views). All of those who didnt respond could disagree with the conclusion  and it would overwhelming reverse the poll results but we don’t know cause they didnt respond. It also could be that they all agree confirming the results and the poll is completely accurate. 

The point is an unscientific poll doesn’t mean anything because self selection will never create a representative sample. So what do you you do with this? You pay attention to it but take it with a huge grain of salt because it is extremely limited in what it can tell us beyond anecdotal evidence. 

[bEwAbG]

I'm not clicking on offsite links for anything so I didn't participate.  CC has the ability to create polls.  I only respond to those if they're set up to not show how specific people vote. 

 

None of that changes that the trend is to the negative on what customers are saying online.  Online reviews do influence decisions, especially in younger generations.  This is why X has started pushing more PR out there to try to stem the tide IMO.

[Oceangoer2]

15 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Just wondering where the 13 that liked the president came from?  New cruisers, blind cruisers, etc.?

 

The same for the 14 neutral cruisers...

 

But overwhelming CC cruisers are not happy with the president.  I guess that means a bunch of turnover for Celebrity.

Are most of these responders unhappy with the President or unhappy with X?  I believe the latter and picking the president as the one at 'fault' so early in her position is just a vent.  She hasn't made that many changes IMO to affect whether I continue to cruise with X .  If she made a big change to the menu for the better, that would put me firmly in her camp.  I also think all the flak re 'cookie gate' was not helping our case re the 'dining' issue...so petty that it diminished the very real problem and gave X mgmt. reason to comment that listening to CC'ers was catering to very picky posters and not to be paid attention to.  Get behind the IMPORTANT stuff ....there is plenty there.  FYI...I'm E+ sailing with X for many years.  I do know the decline in menu offerings and it's pathetic.  One night on our upcoming cruise has 3 fish and 2 pasta...and the general offerings.  This is a typical menu.  We are not gourmet diners or require big portions, just enjoy finer dining than the local fast food restaurant which X is not offering unless we book specialty restaurants.  Both could use new menus and a bounce upward in quality and choice.  JMHO.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Oceangoer2

[scouseronline]

On 10/16/2023 at 9:03 PM, NMTraveller said:

I feel dumber for having watched.  I have never heard so much BS and obfuscating from Laura...  She would make a good politician though.

Haha, She reminds me of Trudeau and Ford, I'm calling BS 

[NMTraveller]

3 hours ago, georgiaguy said:

 

Didnt say that they should ignore social media, just that this particular poll cant be taken as anything more entertainment. It most likely self selected those who are dissatisfied as those are who are most likely to respond. Imagine for a second a hypothetical that the full sample size was 2800 (the current number of views). All of those who didnt respond could disagree with the conclusion  and it would overwhelming reverse the poll results but we don’t know cause they didnt respond. It also could be that they all agree confirming the results and the poll is completely accurate. 

The point is an unscientific poll doesn’t mean anything because self selection will never create a representative sample. So what do you you do with this? You pay attention to it but take it with a huge grain of salt because it is extremely limited in what it can tell us beyond anecdotal evidence. 

LOL.  What is the relevance?

 

While I would agree with you that the poll is not scientific and that the numbers may change  in a scientific poll.

 

The numbers in this poll are 10% are satisfied and 72% are dissatisfied.  Would you be happier if it was a scientific poll and the numbers came out with 20% are satisfied and 62% are dissatisfied?  Or 5% are satisfied and 77% are dissatisfied?  The numbers are so lopsided that a scientific poll is not going to change the end result.  The trend is obvious...

Edited October 21, 2023 by NMTraveller

[georgiaguy]

1 minute ago, NMTraveller said:

LOL.  What is the relevance?

 

While I would agree with you that the poll is not scientific and that the numbers may change  in a scientific poll.

 

The numbers in this poll are 10% are satisfied and 72% are dissatisfied.  Would you be happier if it was a scientific poll and the numbers came out with 20% are satisfied and 62% are dissatisfied?  Or 5% are satisfied and 77% are dissatisfied?  The numbers are so lopsided that a scientific poll is not going to change the end result.  The trend is obvious...

The point is that those numbers don’t mean anything because of the problem of self selecting sample. They literally could be blue are satisfied and keyboard are dissatisfied and make the same amount of sense because the numbers can only be taken anecdotally. I am not saying it is wrong. I am saying that you cant conclude anything from this poll. I would be happy with the numbers if it was scientific because they would actually mean something.

If I take an unscientific poll right now that comes up with 72% prefer cats vs 10% dogs, would that mean most people prefer cats. Of course not cause we would recognize those numbers can not be used to conclude anything. That is all I am saying. 

[NMTraveller]

15 minutes ago, georgiaguy said:

The point is that those numbers don’t mean anything because of the problem of self selecting sample. They literally could be blue are satisfied and keyboard are dissatisfied and make the same amount of sense because the numbers can only be taken anecdotally. I am not saying it is wrong. I am saying that you cant conclude anything from this poll. I would be happy with the numbers if it was scientific because they would actually mean something.

If I take an unscientific poll right now that comes up with 72% prefer cats vs 10% dogs, would that mean most people prefer cats. Of course not cause we would recognize those numbers can not be used to conclude anything. That is all I am saying. 

And yet companies use AI and ML to scrape the web and find out user sentiment about their product.  These are not scientific polls either,  but the companies do make conclusions from these studies and adjustments.  They pay millions of dollars for these services.

 

There is no way that a scientific poll is going to change the results here.  The majority are dissatisfied with the leader.  There is nothing surprising about the results here either.

 

A better question would be why?  I think that the why is in the cuts and added fees for the product.  The product and leadership are closely tied together.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by NMTraveller

[maxsales]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:50 PM, Ex-Airbalancer said:

It is their ships they can do what they want 😁

No, actually they can't.  The stockholders actually are the plank owners and want their investment to appreciate and pay dividends. Negative changes, perceived or real, will reduce revenue, driving profitability down.

 

Management's responsibility is the opposite.  Drive profits upwards. In the last year, the perception is out there that Celebrity is reducing services and cutting quality.  Actions speak louder than words.

 

[georgiaguy]

29 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

There is no way that a scientific poll is going to change the results here.  The majority are dissatisfied with the leader.  There is nothing surprising about the results here either.

 

 

 

Maybe. Maybe not. That is certainly your opinion and certainly would be agreed to by many here at CC but there is no data to prove that and this poll does not prove that. 

 

Yes they scrape the internet for info but do you really think that all that gathered info is equally weighted?  Of course not because anyone can say anything on the internet. I can start posting that the sky is green over my house today but that doesn’t make it a fact. Anecdotal evidence is always secondary to data driven evidence because anecdotal can be outliers, or lies, or biased. And before someone says I am accusing someone of lying, I am not. I am making a general statement that lies can effect the outcome of any polling. 

 

And again. I am not saying the poll is not reflecting reality. Maybe it is, but we have no way of determining the veracity of the conclusions of this particular poll.

Edited October 21, 2023 by georgiaguy

[NMTraveller]

7 minutes ago, georgiaguy said:

Yes they scrape type internet for info but do you really think that all that gathered info is equally weighted?  Of course not because anyone can say anything on the internet. I can start posting that the sky is green over my house today but that doesn’t make it a fact. Anecdotal evidence is always secondary to data driven evidence because anecdotal can be outliers, or lies, or biased. And before someone says I am accusing someone of lying, I am not. I am making a general statement that lies can effect the outcome of any polling. 

 

The type of AI and ML analysis done on the web is sentiment analysis.  If you post something positive it is counted.  If you post something negative it is counted.  They then go back and count the negative sentiment words and categorize them.  A few posters who are outliers will not have an effect on the analysis.  If someone was to do this analysis on this board and site they would find out that food would be the #1 negative sentiment.  You would have to do the analysis to find the percentages.

 

They also do the same for the positive sentiment.

Edited October 21, 2023 by NMTraveller

[georgiaguy]

Just now, NMTraveller said:

The type of AI and ML analysis done on the web is sentiment analysis.  If you post something positive it is counted.  If you post something negative it is counted.  They then go back and count the negative sentiment words and categorize them.  A few posters who are outliers will not have an effect on the analysis.  If someone was to do this analysis on this board and site they would find out that food would be the #1 negative sentiment.  You would have to do the analysis to find the percentages.

 

And that is not the same thing as this poll…

[NMTraveller]

5 minutes ago, georgiaguy said:

 

And that is not the same thing as this poll…

I find very many similarities.  I find it very similar to a sentiment analysis on Celebrity.

 

A strictly scientific poll is not required when the answers are so obvious.  If you want to pay for one you can 🙂 

 

We can agree to disagree.

Edited October 21, 2023 by NMTraveller

[georgiaguy]

Also this board is self selecting as well and even if 100% of CC folks agree doesn’t mean that the whole rest of the world agrees. 

 

If this poll had come to the opposite conclusion you would be calling it fake and not reflecting reality. That is called confirmation bias. 

[NMTraveller]

1 minute ago, georgiaguy said:

If this poll had come to the opposite conclusion you would be calling it fake and not reflecting reality. That is called confirmation bias. 

Nope.  I would say that I was in the minority.  Of course I would expect to see glowing reviews of the food,  butlers, etc.  to back it up.

[hcat]

13 hours ago, mjfship said:

New cruisers have low expectations?  Hmmmmmm, not following your logic.  Sorry.

or  that of another stereotyped generalization that  Celeb caters to the: 

"American contemporary palate. The food is not imaginative. Think Americanized and made with cheaper ingredients for mass production. Is it too late to cancel?"

[georgiaguy]

You just defined confirmation bias. 

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as

noun

1. the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.