NCL income up 217%, Food & Service budget increase?

[laudergayle]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

The question is, will those internally developed shows be as good as the ones that have a contract expiring?

I believe they will be very entertaining. Some that I’ve seen on smaller NCL and the MSC ships were just fine.  I am happy to have more small scale ships snd walk-on entertainment to fill more nights during the cruise.  Hope we see them in early 2024.

[ChiefMateJRK]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Personally, was not a fan of SIX.

Enduring SIX caused me physical pain.  Fortunately, the bar provided the needed remedy.  As long as they don't cancel the bar, I'm good.  😎🐀

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Enduring SIX caused me physical pain.  Fortunately, the bar provided the needed remedy.  As long as they don't cancel the bar, I'm good.  😎🐀

I would not worry about them cancelling the bar. 😊

[fshagan]

13 hours ago, 9tee2Sea said:

I cant believe I haven't seen this answer on this thread.  I bet if NCL wanted to increase traffic with the higher profits, they can do away with the mandatory daily service fee .  Imagine the publicity created if NCL paid higher wages to their onboard workers that rely on the service fee.  I know, you take into account food and lodging that is provided ( which is part of the wage computation), but with world wide workers demanding higher wages, NCL can beat them to the punch.    

 

The seafarers union was very happy with the increase in wages they negotiated with NCL in 2021 in their new 9 year contract, with unanimous approval of the members:

 

"The contract includes a completely new wage schedule with increased rates effective Oct. 1, 2021, providing average boosts between two and four percent to base wage rates (depending on rating) and an adjusted overtime rate schedule equivalent to a 30 percent increase. The agreement also includes across-the-board increases of three percent for all wages effective April 1, 2022 and each anniversary thereafter."

 

I don't believe NCL will change their pricing model any time soon. It works too well and their ships are full. Most cruisers accept the gratuity as a cost of cruising and don't complain about it. 

 

[BrianLo]

14 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Royal and NCL are battling it out for the same customer.

 

You know, I just want to make a comment that I'm not really sure this is the case per say. There seems to be a widening divide between the two of these lines, they definitely used to be really obvious comps.

 

NCL is decidedly trying to swim up market, further reducing their focus on the Caribbean and are purposefully working towards longer length cruises with a wider variety of destinations. We see other targeted areas of focus like Solos on NCL and meanwhile RCL seems to digging in deeper to the family cruising with staterooms meant to accommodate. NCL continues to have most guests on some form of package. NCL is also kind of in the medium ship category while RCL is focusing on mega's and their land-based offerings.

 

This is not an insult to RCL in the slightest, but I actually think Carnival and MSC are both trying to come up as well into RCL's current category. NCL is trying to become a Celebrity competitor.

[graphicguy]

6 hours ago, BrianLo said:

 

You know, I just want to make a comment that I'm not really sure this is the case per say. There seems to be a widening divide between the two of these lines, they definitely used to be really obvious comps.

 

NCL is decidedly trying to swim up market, further reducing their focus on the Caribbean and are purposefully working towards longer length cruises with a wider variety of destinations. We see other targeted areas of focus like Solos on NCL and meanwhile RCL seems to digging in deeper to the family cruising with staterooms meant to accommodate. NCL continues to have most guests on some form of package. NCL is also kind of in the medium ship category while RCL is focusing on mega's and their land-based offerings.

 

This is not an insult to RCL in the slightest, but I actually think Carnival and MSC are both trying to come up as well into RCL's current category. NCL is trying to become a Celebrity competitor.

Really good points!

[insidecabin]

On 11/3/2023 at 3:07 PM, graphicguy said:

Yeah....but then we go back to the days where I was tipping everyone I interface with, even peripherally.  I don't want to go back to that.

 

I used to keep a wad of singles in my pocket every day for such occurrences.  Don't want to do that, again.

 

 

Plenty of lines are service/grats/tips included, no further requirement.

 

Even MSC recognised it would help with the UK market so all bookings are inclusive.

 

Going service included might allow some increase in fares and Americans love tipping so much they would just pay again anyway.

 

 

[insidecabin]

On 11/3/2023 at 3:00 PM, 9tee2Sea said:

I cant believe I haven't seen this answer on this thread.  I bet if NCL wanted to increase traffic with the higher profits, they can do away with the mandatory daily service fee .  Imagine the publicity created if NCL paid higher wages to their onboard workers that rely on the service fee.  I know, you take into account food and lodging that is provided ( which is part of the wage computation), but with world wide workers demanding higher wages, NCL can beat them to the punch.    

There is no mandatory daily service fee.

[pete_coach]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:40 AM, shof515 said:

they will be more cutbacks, increase in pricing and overall quality decline. all of the extra money will go towards shareholders and other higher corporation people. this always happens to every company. 

100% correct.

Understand NCL is a product and their responsibility is to their shareholders.

Only if they lose customers will there be any changes to increase food and services.

[9tee2Sea]

2 hours ago, insidecabin said:

There is no mandatory daily service fee.

you are correct.   I used the wrong verbiage.  I know people can go to guest services and opt of of the daily service charge, and pay whatever to who ever.  

[joydivision84]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:16 AM, wilmingtech said:

NCL has gone from a net income of (-482.48M) in Dec 22 to a +345.87M in the 3rd quarter of this year (2023).

 

How long will it take for that to trickle down to increased service and food quality on the ships? 

I understand the reason for the cutbacks but now with the cruise industry booming, will more of that addl profit go to new ships and expansion of the company with the current cutbacks being the "new normal" or will they focus on improving quality of food and service on the ships to retain the clientele?

If they are selling at capacity or above with food as it is, don't expect any upgrades, it's as simple as that really I'm afraid. I read some of their shareholders meeting and they mentioned several times how good feedback was for their current product (hmm...) and how that supported recent cut backs, so it was pretty clear there was not a push to increase food cost, and thus most likely quality.

Edited November 4, 2023 by joydivision84
Spelling

[pete_coach]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:47 PM, Yesimapirate said:

And yet the airlines,  which have been a downward spiral in service since deregulation, are more full than ever.

 

It seems like many here let there personal feelings overshadow basic economics.   The cruise lines are sailing at record capacity and ADR.  They aren't losing share.  For every person who complains they'll never sail that line again,  there are more people to replace them.   There is absolutely no economic reason to increase services. 

 

Services will increase and costs will drop when there are empty rooms.  A recession is when the customer has power, not during a boom.

The airlines are full because they reduced their fleets and routes.

They are full on the remaining fleets and reduced routes.

[davencl]

For info on what NCLH is doing to hold down costs see their earnings call presentation. Lots of interesting info.  https://d1io3yog0oux5.cloudfront.net/_c102cbdd15411bb7f2576bbe23b9f7d8/nclhltd/db/1086/11444/pdf/NCLH+Q3+2023+Earnings+Call+Presentation_FINAL.pdf

Edited November 4, 2023 by davencl

[joydivision84]

13 hours ago, BrianLo said:

 

You know, I just want to make a comment that I'm not really sure this is the case per say. There seems to be a widening divide between the two of these lines, they definitely used to be really obvious comps.

 

NCL is decidedly trying to swim up market, further reducing their focus on the Caribbean and are purposefully working towards longer length cruises with a wider variety of destinations. We see other targeted areas of focus like Solos on NCL and meanwhile RCL seems to digging in deeper to the family cruising with staterooms meant to accommodate. NCL continues to have most guests on some form of package. NCL is also kind of in the medium ship category while RCL is focusing on mega's and their land-based offerings.

 

This is not an insult to RCL in the slightest, but I actually think Carnival and MSC are both trying to come up as well into RCL's current category. NCL is trying to become a Celebrity competitor.

It's a weird form of upmarket push though, where their ships are becoming more segregated. I know that sounds strange, but if you compare the product on their new Prima, Viva etc ships there is a noticeable difference in regards to the offerings on display and specially in the restaurants when compared to for example, the breakaway class ships. The decor and style differential between their brand new ships and recent but older vessels is quite stark. The new ships looks lovely, but obviously they have came with lots of complaints regarding best usage and charging even more so for extras.The ship within a ship thing is in my opinion getting a little extreme.

 

Where the big difference seems to be to me is in the dining options now, where the new ships seem to be leaps and bounds above the breakaway class ships with more options and genuinely better looking and more appetizing food offerings. So to me anyway, and it's just my opinion, it's almost like they are beginning to offer two separately different options, their new vessels going more upmarket and you can see that on the menus and on the walls, and their  older vessels being left behind for the more economical traveler. The problem is the new ships are not really more expensive when it comes to cost to customers, so it's kinda a weird situation.

[desibee]

20 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Enduring SIX caused me physical pain.  Fortunately, the bar provided the needed remedy.  As long as they don't cancel the bar, I'm good.  😎🐀

SIX was great.  I’d rather watch SIX ten times then see any of the in-house jukebox musical shows Royal Caribbean produces.

[BrianLo]

1 hour ago, joydivision84 said:

Where the big difference seems to be to me is in the dining options now, where the new ships seem to be leaps and bounds above the breakaway class ships with more options and genuinely better looking and more appetizing food offerings. So to me anyway, and it's just my opinion, it's almost like they are beginning to offer two separately different options, their new vessels going more upmarket and you can see that on the menus and on the walls, and their  older vessels being left behind for the more economical traveler. The problem is the new ships are not really more expensive when it comes to cost to customers, so it's kinda a weird situation.

 

Yes exactly. While the main dining room food cuts are what they are, it's also worth noting what type of experience Prima/Viva are offering between Hudson's (whose venue feels speciality) and Indulge Food Hall (which literally includes free speciality food). They don't receive enough credit that the food offerings are actually somewhat ahead of the fleet on their new ships.

 

I think the answer to the older ships was clearly demonstrated in NCL Spirit. It seems like a smart use of capital as many, many people here keep identifying this ship as one of their favourites. That strategy was completely ruined by the pandemic, but I hope they get back to it for a few vessels as the balance sheet gradually improves over the coming years. A couple of the old ships will inevitably be let go, but the ones they want to keep another 10+ years deserve Spirit-like makeovers. 

[ChiefMateJRK]

2 hours ago, desibee said:

SIX was great.  I’d rather watch SIX ten times then see any of the in-house jukebox musical shows Royal Caribbean produces.

Maybe it would have been better if I had hit the bar before the show?

 

disclaimer: I probably spent meaningful time at the bar prior to the show 😎 (I don't want to be "ratted out" by @graphicguy, since he was on the same sailing🤣)

[ggTexasGal]

1 minute ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Maybe it would have been better if I had hit the bar before the show?

Perhaps that was my problem as well. Maybe a good stiff drink (several) would have helped me "chill."

[CruisinMaterial]

17 hours ago, BrianLo said:

 

You know, I just want to make a comment that I'm not really sure this is the case per say. There seems to be a widening divide between the two of these lines, they definitely used to be really obvious comps.

 

NCL is decidedly trying to swim up market, further reducing their focus on the Caribbean and are purposefully working towards longer length cruises with a wider variety of destinations. We see other targeted areas of focus like Solos on NCL and meanwhile RCL seems to digging in deeper to the family cruising with staterooms meant to accommodate. NCL continues to have most guests on some form of package. NCL is also kind of in the medium ship category while RCL is focusing on mega's and their land-based offerings.

 

This is not an insult to RCL in the slightest, but I actually think Carnival and MSC are both trying to come up as well into RCL's current category. NCL is trying to become a Celebrity competitor.

NCL is not sailing the Caribbean market and short haul cruises anymore because MSC came in an undercut them with newer, flashier ships and offering an alcohol package. While folks do rag on MSC constantly for all manner of things, I, for one, haven't had any large complaints about MSC. They're actually the only line that I know of that hasn't cut back on something since cruising resumed post-COVID. Give them props for sticking with everything, including lobster in the MDR and twice a day room servicing.

 

NCL is trying to upmarket themselves but they're floundering with all the cuts they're doing. I see a three-way competition between NCL, Carnival and MSC. Carnival Corp is already taking a hit on their Costa brand thanks to MSC and that's why Costa is repositioning ships into the Carnival fleet in the USA. NCL already lost out on the short haul market to focus on "longer itineraries" but given the current promotions for further afield, it's clear that not everyone can afford to go globe trotting for what NCL charges. I also know for a fact that not all their ships are sailing full or with double occupancy due to their itineraries and declining ratings among passengers. Their bargain pricing is attracting the wrong type of crowds to their ships.

 

If anything it seems like NCL is more on a death spiral than going upwards IMHO.

[BrianLo]

20 minutes ago, CruisinMaterial said:

NCL is trying to upmarket themselves but they're floundering with all the cuts they're doing. I see a three-way competition between NCL, Carnival and MSC. Carnival Corp is already taking a hit on their Costa brand thanks to MSC and that's why Costa is repositioning ships into the Carnival fleet in the USA. NCL already lost out on the short haul market to focus on "longer itineraries" but given the current promotions for further afield, it's clear that not everyone can afford to go globe trotting for what NCL charges. I also know for a fact that not all their ships are sailing full or with double occupancy due to their itineraries and declining ratings among passengers. Their bargain pricing is attracting the wrong type of crowds to their ships.

 

If anything it seems like NCL is more on a death spiral than going upwards IMHO.

That was my whole point, NCL is not playing in the same field as RCL anymore. Non-Caribbean and longer itinerary guests are generally stronger guests though. 

 

I’m not sure how they are both too expensive and too much of a bargain? The occupancy was just 106% last quarter. It will be soft due to Hawaiian and Middle East cancellations, but a death spiral seems to be a bit melodramatic…

[yakcruiser]

33 minutes ago, CruisinMaterial said:

NCL is not sailing the Caribbean market and short haul cruises anymore because MSC came in an undercut them with newer, flashier ships and offering an alcohol package. While folks do rag on MSC constantly for all manner of things, I, for one, haven't had any large complaints about MSC. They're actually the only line that I know of that hasn't cut back on something since cruising resumed post-COVID. Give them props for sticking with everything, including lobster in the MDR and twice a day room servicing.

 

NCL is trying to upmarket themselves but they're floundering with all the cuts they're doing. I see a three-way competition between NCL, Carnival and MSC. Carnival Corp is already taking a hit on their Costa brand thanks to MSC and that's why Costa is repositioning ships into the Carnival fleet in the USA. NCL already lost out on the short haul market to focus on "longer itineraries" but given the current promotions for further afield, it's clear that not everyone can afford to go globe trotting for what NCL charges. I also know for a fact that not all their ships are sailing full or with double occupancy due to their itineraries and declining ratings among passengers. Their bargain pricing is attracting the wrong type of crowds to their ships.

 

If anything it seems like NCL is more on a death spiral than going upwards IMHO.

It hurts finding out that I'm the wrong kind of passenger. I do cruise NCL for their varied itineraries and that they market cruises to solos like myself which cuts into their double occupancy rates. And I guess I will learn to live with the fact that liking a bargain also makes me the wrong kind of passenger. And I do not care how flashy the ship is because I'm not flying all the way from the northwest to Florida to go on a 3,4 or 7 day cookie cutter cruise. Now if I find out MSC or Carnival still serve hashbrowns I might change my mind.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by yakcruiser
left out a place

[ChiefMateJRK]

35 minutes ago, CruisinMaterial said:

Their bargain pricing is attracting the wrong type of crowds to their ships.

Hey!!  I resemble that remark. 😡

[itsnotjustme]

Interesting thread.

 

Surprising food cast was down 30%!  Wow.  Now I know why there is no bacon at the omelet station.

 

I enjoy the longer itineraries, and the more premium locations like Europe and Asia Pacific. 

 

I fit their mold of committing more $ pre-cruise.  We now routinely book our shore excursions well in advance of the cruise.

 

I bought my NCHL share at $11.37 so I am happy with performance.

 

 

[graphicguy]

2 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Hey!!  I resemble that remark. 😡

As do I!!!!  😉

[graphicguy]

4 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Maybe it would have been better if I had hit the bar before the show?

 

disclaimer: I probably spent meaningful time at the bar prior to the show 😎 (I don't want to be "ratted out" by @graphicguy, since he was on the same sailing🤣)

Probably should have heeded the old adage “just one more” before the show.

 

Ooops….you’re “ratted” out!