Valladolid

[GTJ]

We had been hoping to visit Valladolid while in San Miguel de Cozumel on Friday, January 19, 2024, from 11:00 a.m. until 9:00 p.m. The problem is that, even with 10 hours in port, there does not appear to be enough time for the Ultramar/Winjet ferry and ADO bus.

 

With an 11:00 a.m. port arrival, the earliest ferry from Cozumel would be the Ultramar ferry at 12:00 noon, arriving in Playa del Carmen at 12:45 p.m. ADO has a departure from close-by Terminal Turística at 1:30 p.m. destined for Tizimín, with an arrival in Valladolid at 3:35 p.m. For the return, we would need to be on Ultramar ferry from Playa del Carmen at 7:00 p.m., so that we would be back in Cozumel at 7:45 p.m. and the cruise vessel’s sailing at 9:00 p.m. That means that we would have to board the ADO Conecta bus in Valladolid at 3:00 p.m. (a de paso bus originating at Tizimín) that returns to Terminal Turística at 6:30 p.m. In other words, we would have to return from Valladolid 35 minutes prior to our arrival in Valladolid. Even if we wanted to cut it close, and get the Winjet ferry from Playa del Carmen at 8:00 p.m. (and relying on it to be on-time to make it from the ferry to the cruise vessel in 15 minutes), that would mean that we would have to board the ADO Conecta bus in Valladolid at 4:00 p.m. (a locally-originating bus) that returns to Terminal Turística at 7:30 p.m. That would give us only 25 minutes in Valladolid.

 

Overland travel time between Playa del Carmen and Valladolid is 2 hours. With 6-1/4 hours in Playa del Carmen (from 12:45 p.m. until 7:00 p.m.), that should, at least in theory, allow us a 2-1/4 visit to Valladolid. Are there any practicable alternatives to ADO for visiting Valladolid from Playa del Carmen?

[c-leg5]

Is this a serious inquiry? What is your goal in Valladolid and how long do you need?

 

Maybe check out the company that used to offer private charter flights to Chichen Itza to see if they can customize! Which pier are you docking at?

[blue_water]

3 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

Is this a serious inquiry?

Really…

This is a non-starter IMHO…Your Ultramar ferry times are  incorrect, Winjet times are also different…
ADO schedules are pretty reliable and it is a 2 - 2.5 hr drive. But we have one friend (a local Q Roo resident) who was removed from the bus at a checkpoint because his ID was damaged/illegible. He had to have his family text a legible copy so he could get on the next bus. So when traveling anywhere - Coz, Q Roo, Yucatán, anywhere - carry your original passport, not a photo or e-copy, especially if a foreigner. Can’t stress that enough, but others will refute that of course 🤷🏼🙉

You can check into flights between Coz and Valladolid or PDC and Valladolid, but I see flights only between CUN and TQO…perhaps a charter as c-leg5 mentioned?

 

I’d suggest returning for a land vacation in Merida and visiting Valladolid, Izamal and other areas of Yucatán state at your leisure…

Edited November 29, 2023 by blue_water

[c-leg5]

16 minutes ago, blue_water said:

Really…

This is a non-starter IMHO…Your Ultramar ferry times are  incorrect, Winjet times are also different…
ADO schedules are pretty reliable and it is a 2 - 2.5 hr drive. But we have one friend (a local Q Roo resident) who was removed from the bus at a checkpoint because his ID was damaged/illegible. He had to have his family text a legible copy so he could get on the next bus. So when traveling anywhere - Coz, Q Roo, Yucatán, anywhere - carry your original passport, not a photo or e-copy, especially if a foreigner. Can’t stress that enough, but others will refute that of course 🤷🏼🙉

You can check into flights between Coz and Valladolid or PDC and Valladolid, but I see flights only between CUN and TQO…perhaps a charter as c-leg5 mentioned?

 

I’d suggest returning for a land vacation in Merida and visiting Valladolid, Izamal and other areas of Yucatán state at your leisure…

I agree Blue, but you should maybe quote OP, @GTJ ?

 

I am not sure if charter company is still in business.

Edited November 29, 2023 by c-leg5

[GTJ]

8 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

Is this a serious inquiry? What is your goal in Valladolid and how long do you need?

I don't understand the question of seriousness. The goal is to visit the city center, and I would prefer at least two hours, if not longer.

 

4 hours ago, blue_water said:

This is a non-starter IMHO…Your Ultramar ferry times are  incorrect, Winjet times are also different…

I don't understand the meaning of "non-starter." Is that a way of saying that there do not exist any practicable alternatives? That may end up being true. Why do you say that Ultramar and Winjet ferry times are incorrect? In January 2024, on odd days, Ultramar should be departing Cozumel on the even hours, and departing Playa on the odd hours, while Winjet should be departing Cozumel on the odd hours, and departing Playa on the even hours (the reverse is true on even days in January 2024). It is about a 45 minute crossing.

 

4 hours ago, blue_water said:

ADO schedules are pretty reliable and it is a 2 - 2.5 hr drive.

Yes, driving overland it should be less than two hours for the 142 km (88 miles). The ADO timetable is 3 hours 5 minutes by regular ADO motorcoach, and 2 hours 30 minutes by ADO Conecta Sprinter van. (The Sprinter van might be a bit quicker, but the regular motorcoach is more comfortable.) Also don't forget about the time zone change, with the state of Quintana Roo on eastern time and the state of Yucatán on central time. However, it is also the scheduled departure that are critical for planning, which are enumerated for the intended travel date in my original post, and not just the travel times. The schedules just don't seem to work out right.

 

8 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

Maybe check out the company that used to offer private charter flights to Chichen Itza to see if they can customize! Which pier are you docking at?

 

4 hours ago, blue_water said:

You can check into flights between Coz and Valladolid or PDC and Valladolid, but I see flights only between CUN and TQO…perhaps a charter as c-leg5 mentioned?

I might have mentioned that we cannot fly. Chichen Itza International Airport, near Valladolid, has no scheduled flights. With Cancún International Airport once would still have to get the ADO bus from Playa del Carmen to that airport, and arriving at Tulum International Airport would bring us no closer to Valladolid than Playa del Carmen. I suppose one could charter an airplane to fly from Cozumel International Airport to Chichen Itza, though I imagine it would be so expensive for just two people as to push it into the realm of impracticability. Then there's the matter of getting to and from the airports. We expect to dock at Muelle Punta Langosta (MSC vessel), which is just a few blocks and a short walk to the ferry pier, though the port authorities do periodically change plans. A good creative alternative, but seemingly not practicable.

 

4 hours ago, blue_water said:

I’d suggest returning for a land vacation in Merida and visiting Valladolid, Izamal and other areas of Yucatán state at your leisure…

We have done so already. However, Valladolid is one of two remaining sizable city we have not visited, and thus its attraction to us. (We had considered Valladolid several years ago as a wedding venue, but ultimately decided instead on Oaxaca de Juárez.) Among other places we have been to already on the Yucatán peninsula are Mérida, Progreso, Cancún (city center, not hotel zone), Playa del Carmen, San Miguel de Cozumel, Chetumal, and Belize City (as well as many other places in Belize and Guatemala that might arguably be part of the Yucatán peninsula). The other city on the Yucatán peninsula we remain anxious to visit is Campeche, which we had considered visiting before--and technically we have while asleep on an overnight bus from Mérida to Villahermosa--but ultimately electing to travel from Palenque through the remote jungles in the Petén of Guatemala and Belize, and passing through Chetumal. Overland travel to this part of México can be arduous from New York, requiring train and/or bus travel from New York to Houston or Dallas, then either Greyhound Lines or Turimex Internacional through Texas and over the border, and ADO the rest of the way (via Puebla and/or Veracruz). But we will be this MSC vessel in January--seemingly the only cruise itinerary in all of 2024 (excluding world cruises) from New York visiting México--and so it would be fabulous if an excursion to Valladolid could be had as part of the upcoming trip. Valladolid is a real city with historical existence (including having until relatively recently narrow-gauge mixed passenger train service to and from Mérida)--as opposed to the modern developments in places like San Miguel de Cozumel, Playa del Carmen, and Cancún whose economies depend on norteamericanos--and thus a place worthy of visitation and exploration. If getting there turns out to be impracticable, we might just head up to Cancún on the ADO bus, and get the ferry from Puerto Juárez to Isla Mujeres, though that would be much more mundane. As to points south of Playa del Carmen, our subsequent port is at Mahahual, on the Costa Maya, so we're not really seeking to head south from Cozumel.

Edited November 29, 2023 by GTJ

[blue_water]

9 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

I agree Blue, but you should maybe quote OP, @GTJ ?

 

I am not sure if charter company is still in business.

I quoted you because I was agreeing with your “Is this a serious inquiry?”  😆

[blue_water]

>> I don't understand the meaning of "non-starter." <<
Your idea of going to Valladolid from Cozumel with that timeline is just a very aggressive one, IMHO, that’s all. But now that I know you’ve traveled the area extensively it’s just a matter of finding no delays, and having no problems at the checkpoints. That does happen, and there is very little room for a problem…DO carry your original ID. A friend (a local resident) was actually detained at a checkpoint due to his ID being illegible.

The flight from Coz may be impractical due to the cost, but is actually the most practical solution from a planning standpoint…That is often the quandary with excursions…

 

>> Why do you say that Ultramar and Winjet ferry times are incorrect? <<
On odd days the Ultramar COZ —> PDC ferry departs at 1PM, and the PDC - Coz ferry departs at 6PM.
Winjet departures may be 12PM and 7PM, or 1PM and 6PM. Their schedule changes week to week, and they have not yet posted January’s schedule.

I have seen scheduling discrepancies between the Ultramar/Winjet sites, and the various tour group sites as well…

The typical transfer time between terminals is 45 minutes, but we’ve been delayed in both directions. So just keep that in mind.

 

So I have to think you would be the first day visitors to make this trek by land, and if you do go I hope you would return with a report, I’d love to read it!

[GTJ]

5 hours ago, blue_water said:

Your idea of going to Valladolid from Cozumel with that timeline is just a very aggressive one, IMHO, that’s all. But now that I know you’ve traveled the area extensively it’s just a matter of finding no delays, and having no problems at the checkpoints.

It is that the city of Valladolid is clearly in sight, but it just seems to be out-of-reach. It is that teasing that has been frustrating and causing to investigate any alternatives I have not considered. Generally, I find central and southern parts of the country to be the most interesting, with the the Yucatán peninsula being both distinct and a bit removed and remote, so a cruise itinerary that includes these ports of call just adds to that tease. I believe that there are some tours from Cozumel to Chichen Itza (or am I mistaken and such tours are being offered only from Progreso?), and if that is the case, then it should also be possible to visit Valladolid. As to checkpoints, we never had any difficulty, even in Chiapas and its periodic unrest, or in Oaxaca following the violent teach protests . . . for the most part the checkpoints have been in the same annoyance category as topes, though there's always room for a new "first." In the end, it just may not be possible. But if the timing doesn't work, then we may just have to explore other parts nearby not before visited, even if not as intriguing.

 

From a larger perspective the ferry schedules are relatively stable, but the operator of each trip varies from day-to-day. Ultramar has posted its January 2024, which continues the same pattern from December 2023, and while Winjet has not posted its schedule beyond December, it is clear that it will fill in the gaps. So even if schedules are reversed, and Ultramar is not operating at a specific time on a particular day, then Winjet will operate at that time instead. The variable timing of the crossing leads me to conclude that the 7:00 p.m. crossing is the last reliable trip for a 9:00 p.m. sailing (and even with this I have concern with that crossing possibly being oversubscribed by all the other returning cruise vessel passengers). The alternating schedule of odd days and even days is not unique to this service, and the Alaska Marine Highway and BC Ferries both use a similar schemes for some of their ferry services.

[c-leg5]

I applaud your sense of adventure especially as a cruise ship visitor and your apparent intensive research. 
 

Depending on port hours, some cruise ships do include trips to Chichen Itza, though definitely more convenient from Progreso, but keep in mind they charter the land and sea transport and use a dedicated ferry. The ship will wait for any delays in most circumstances. Also don't forget to factor in ship time and local time and that all aboard will be at least 30 minutes prior to sail away.  I am not sure where your next port of call is if you need to independently catch up with the ship, if embarkation there is even possible with restrictions and security at this time? 
 

Just because you personally haven’t experienced problems with checkpoints in one area doesn’t mean it isn’t possible elsewhere, even Cozumel hasn’t been immune.
 

For me a day trip to Isla Mujeres from Cozumel from a cruise ship is even less worthwhile but to each their own - the time at location would not justify the transport hassles. Visits during a land trip would be much more feasible but I understand the difficulties if you have air travel restrictions. Like  @blue_water I await your review and wish you luck.

 

I see you are planning an equally intensive excursion in Mahahual is that your next or previous port?

[GTJ]

10 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

I applaud your sense of adventure especially as a cruise ship visitor and your apparent intensive research.

A career of transportation planning is behind it all. My wife used two words to describe our honeymoon: Indiana Jones. Some (many) people traveling by cruise vessel like having everything being planned out for them, so that they need not do anything but relax. I am completely the opposite . . . travel requires extensive research and planning.

 

10 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

Depending on port hours, some cruise ships do include trips to Chichen Itza, though definitely more convenient from Progreso, but keep in mind they charter the land and sea transport and use a dedicated ferry.

Does the cruise line (or more precisely, the tour operator engaged by the cruise line) really hire (charter) ferry transport? I can see the benefits of doing so, but that can be expensive, particularly if a given tour is not well-sold.

 

10 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

I am not sure where your next port of call is if you need to independently catch up with the ship, if embarkation there is even possible with restrictions and security at this time? * * * I see you are planning an equally intensive excursion in Mahahual is that your next or previous port?

Worst case, of missing the sailing, is not especially harmful because the next port of call is Mahahual. An ADO or Mayab bus south from Playa del Carmen to Limones, Bacalar, or Chetumal, then a Caribe bus or collectivo to Mahahual. Having to pay for a night's lodging and dinner. Inconvenient but not fatal.

 

In Mahahual we're looking to do just a packaged ruins tour inland, where we have not been. (we've been to Chetumal, but not the region between Chetumal and Escárcega). I would like to do the tour of Dzibanché and Kinichná, but Native Choice is not offering this 6-1/2 tour because it is "not feasible during your time in port." Their tour to Kohunlich, also 6-1/2 hours, is being offered but is "sold out." The 4-hour tour to Chacchoben is available, as is a 5-1/2 hour version that also includes a Mayan comida, but Chacchoben is less intriguing than the others. Toucan Tours offers similar tours, but their website has been down for a few months and I am not certain that they remain in business. Neither of the two tour companies have been responsive to e-mail inquires (not a good sign). I am not quite sure what to do here, whether to go ahead with what Native Choice is offering, taking a change to pick up a Toucan Tours offering when on-site (if they're still in business), or seeking out another tour operator.

 

10 hours ago, c-leg5 said:

For me a day trip to Isla Mujeres from Cozumel from a cruise ship is even less worthwhile but to each their own - the time at location would not justify the transport hassles.

Agree as to the characterization--particularly as to its attraction as an effective extension of the beach atmosphere of the Cancún hotel zone (I'm not a beach person)--though it would be a new place to visit. But it, too, might be rushed. Considering the ferry logistics, effectively we have 6-1/4 hours in Playa del Carmen, from 12:45 p.m. until 7:00 p.m. It is 1 hour 10 minutes each way on the frequent ADO bus between Playa del Carmen and Cancún, another 15 minutes on the local transit bus, route R-6, from Avenida Tulum outside the ADO terminal to Pto. Juárez, and another 20 on the ferry crossing from Pto. Juárez to Isla Mujeres. With 1 hour 45 minutes actual travel time, plus an assumed a total of 45 to 60 minutes each way waiting for the two buses and the ferry, that's a total of 5 to 5-1/2 hours, leaving only 45 to 75 minutes at Isla Mujeres. Possible, but not all that useful.

 

It seems like it may be best just to make simple a trip into Cancún, which would give us about 3 to 3-1/2 hour in the city center. Time enough for la comida (El Socio Naiz Taquería might be good), perhaps see a bit of the city (which has never struck me as a particularly cultural city . . . our last time there included a visit to Walmart). Alternatively, we could head to Tulum, but beyond the rather small area of ruins it is not a very large city with much to see.

Edited November 30, 2023 by GTJ

[jean87510]

With all the logistics involved in getting there and back, how much actual time do you want to spend there or is it just the joy of managing to get there and back?  I speak from experience as we plan similarly to you and were looking at flights from cozumel to chichen Itza for next December.

[GTJ]

47 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

With all the logistics involved in getting there and back, how much actual time do you want to spend there or is it just the joy of managing to get there and back? I speak from experience as we plan similarly to you and were looking at flights from cozumel to chichen Itza for next December.

I would say a combination of the two. I am attracted to both urban history and development as well as transportation logistics. Indeed, my primary client has a working business relationship with Grupo ADO, and usage and familiarity with ADO bus services is helpful to my client's interests.

[blue_water]

I would add more time to your expected travel time to allow for walking to and from the ADO terminals, wait times, traffic, and the other inevitable delays. Just to minimize the need to make that long transfer to Mahahual…

 

Since you are not interested in a beach IM would be a wasted day. Cancun centro isn’t worth the time IMHO, but if you need something other than Cozumel that is probably it…

We enjoy visiting the smaller towns and also cenotes to the south of PDC…We meet wonderful people that way!

[GTJ]

9 hours ago, blue_water said:

I would add more time to your expected travel time to allow for walking to and from the ADO terminals, wait times, traffic, and the other inevitable delays. Just to minimize the need to make that long transfer to Mahahual.

In Playa del Carmen the ADO Terminal Turística is very close to the ferry dock, so those transfers can be relatively quick (being New Yorkers it is easier for us to get past the throngs crowding Quinta Avenida). Terminal Alterna is a bit further, so transfers do take a bit longer there. But Terminal Alterna is generally used only for the longer distance de paso buses (including buses to and from points south), while local travel to and from Cancún and Valladolid is primarily out of Terminal Turística. When we had traveled further inland, into southern and central México, our route from Playa del Carmen involved a connection at Cancún, so we left from Terminal Turística. On our return we came back from inland through Chetumal, so we arrived at Terminal Alterna. (On that trip, we had sailed from New York to Cozumel on NCL, returning several weeks later from Cozumel to New Orleans on Carnival, continuing onward from New Orleans home to New York on Amtrak.)

 

Traffic delays are, of course, always a bit of an unknown.

 

9 hours ago, blue_water said:

Since you are not interested in a beach IM would be a wasted day. Cancun centro isn’t worth the time IMHO, but if you need something other than Cozumel that is probably it…

We enjoy visiting the smaller towns and also cenotes to the south of PDC…We meet wonderful people that way!

I was thinking that, too, but Isla Mujeres is a place I have not been. Its narrow city center street hold some intrigue, limited as they may be. Nor is Cancún a great place, though it is a city large enough to have some things of interest. So I am looking at Cancún as a possibility. The fundamental problem with Cancún is that it is a modern planned city, having no historical significance, and no inherent cultural importance. Built for supporting the hotel zone, it is arguably just a residential warehouse for those working at the hotels. I am not trying to be cruel, but I think that is really what the government intended with its development. Mérida is so much more interesting than Cancún. (In a similar vein, I remember the first time I was with my wife in Cabo San Lucas, who had theretofore been only to colonial cities in México, and she was so disappointed with the modern city without historic charm and a barren zócalo. Fortunately we had enough time while in port to get the local bus over to San José del Cabo and return.) I was thinking as well about some smaller places--for the reason you noted--so Tulum came to mind. But nothing is really sticking as an alternative place to visit. Cancún may end up being the place to visit by default.

[blue_water]

Don’t get me wrong, for beach lovers IM is beautiful, and it did have some charm, just as PDC once did…That charm was lost long ago. Same with Holbox and Tulum. That is where we are at, the places we fell in love with decades ago are overrun with more and more of us. Cancun is fine for what you expect. We went to a bullfight and saw much of the city years ago. I can only imagine how much it has grown as the number of resorts in the hotel zone have. Same with PDC, the growth seems unsustainable p, yet it continues. But the infrastructure and environment are devastated…Merida is indeed a beautiful, historic city and a great walking city. The Cathedral and other nearby churches are beautiful, we were fortunate in that we could attend mass last visit…

 

Yes the ADO Turistica is a short walk, my point is it just takes time to transfer between the ferry and the bus, and the terminal is typically crazy busy with novice travelers. But we were all there once…

 

Enjoy your day wherever you end up! The east coast of Coz is ruggedly beautiful if you decide on a lazy day 👍

 

[crewsweeper]

@GTJ,   Just book a cruise that stops in Progresso.

[c-leg5]

On 11/30/2023 at 3:14 AM, jean87510 said:

With all the logistics involved in getting there and back, how much actual time do you want to spend there or is it just the joy of managing to get there and back?  I speak from experience as we plan similarly to you and were looking at flights from cozumel to chichen Itza for next December.

Are the private flights still available? I haven’t heard anything about them since Covid.

[jean87510]

24 minutes ago, c-leg5 said:

Are the private flights still available? I haven’t heard anything about them since Covid.

They became available but are pretty expensive now ($1100 pp)  We are debating just going from Progresso in Dec 2024.

[GTJ]

22 hours ago, blue_water said:

But the infrastructure and environment are devastated…Merida is indeed a beautiful, historic city and a great walking city. The Cathedral and other nearby churches are beautiful, we were fortunate in that we could attend mass last visit…

I think we have similar perceptions of this area. I would rather a port call in Progreso than Cozumel. All the attention went to Cancún and the coast southward, rather than Mérida, because of the beach--but perhaps that's the best so that Mérida does not get overrun like Cancún. And from an economic development perspective, I think it has been successful, notwithstanding all the other consequences. For us on this trip, it might just be best to focus on the Parque de las Palapas (even if a bit early in the day) and the area immediately surrounding it, something I have not done before.

 

5 hours ago, crewsweeper said:

@GTJ,   Just book a cruise that stops in Progreso.

Have done so already. Very pleased to have done so! I wish more cruises would stop in Progreso than in Cozumel. Most such cruises come from New Orleans and Galveston, with a few from Tampa. None from the northeast. The itinerary I am on in January 2024 is the only one from New York for the entire year that visits any Mexican ports. None at all from Boston or Baltimore.