Delta Cancels Contract with Regent

[Dolebludger]

1 hour ago, tnr said:

We just booked our air to Barcelona through Regent Air.  My TA also told me that my Delta choices were not available as Delta had cancelled the contract.  Of course, this could just be verbiage that the air department is using……or not.

There might be a way for you to determine, in this case at least, what is going on. Check with Delta directly and see if you individually can book your preferred Delta flights in business class. If you can’t, it might be that those flights in business were sold out. If you can book them, there is a larger problem  involving Regent.

[H2O Polo Willie]

Interesting topic.  We booked through Regent air the last week of December.  Going out to Reykjavik, it was a bit interesting as there really appear to be no SFO to KEF non stops.  So a connection was inevitable somewhere.  We prefer a longer haul overnight so we ended up SFO to SEA and then SEA to KEF.  The best of not a lot of desirable options.  On the return from Heathrow, the booked us on Virgin Atlantic but the flights are on Delta metal.  Maybe we got in under the wire on Delta.

[fdnycruiser]

I was just booked through Regent Air from Orlando to Barcelona paying the deviation fee. Euro wings/ Discover ( owned by Lufthansa) Orlando- Frankfurt- Barcelona. Told me United ( my first choice) would cost $ 500 each.  Used by Delta miles to return from NYC in first.

[Mahogany]

31 minutes ago, H2O Polo Willie said:

Interesting topic.  We booked through Regent air the last week of December.  Going out to Reykjavik, it was a bit interesting as there really appear to be no SFO to KEF non stops.  So a connection was inevitable somewhere.  We prefer a longer haul overnight so we ended up SFO to SEA and then SEA to KEF.  The best of not a lot of desirable options.  On the return from Heathrow, the booked us on Virgin Atlantic but the flights are on Delta metal.  Maybe we got in under the wire on Delta.

I booked my Air to Reykjavik through Regent. Icelandic air from Newark. What airline are you flying from Seattle? I'm also returning from LHR on Virgin.

[H2O Polo Willie]

We go Alaska from SFO to SEA in First then Icelandic from SEA to KEF in Business.  Your flight to KEF should be a bit shorter.  Ours is 7 hours and 25 minutes.

[cAPS lOCK oN]

We were able to get Delta flights from Phoenix to Lisbon through Regent for our upcoming June cruise. There was a reasonable layover in JFK, then an overnight to Lisbon.

 

But Delta recently canceled the PHX to JFK leg, and replaced it with a 6:00 AM departure. We live an hour from PHX so that would have probably meant leaving our home at 3:00 AM. or spending a night in a Phoenix airport hotel. Plus, the early arrival in JFK meant a much longer layover in JFK, and an inconvenient arrival time in LIS.

 

We gave up on Delta and scrambled for other options. Finally Regent put us on Air Canada with a small upcharge. As far as I'm concerned losing Delta's contract is no loss.

[CatServants]

For us, we could still get the Delta flights we wanted through Regent, so seats were still available,  but it would have cost us almost 3X more than just buying the exact same seats ourselves.

[Chateaunole-du-pape]

5 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

There might be a way for you to determine, in this case at least, what is going on. Check with Delta directly and see if you individually can book your preferred Delta flights in business class. If you can’t, it might be that those flights in business were sold out. If you can book them, there is a larger problem  involving Regent.

Not necessarily. On any given airline, I'm sure that Regent's contract gives them access to only certain fare buckets. So while you might see open seats at any price on the flights in question, that doesn't necessarily mean that the fare class to which Regent has access has availability.

[Mahogany]

5 hours ago, H2O Polo Willie said:

We go Alaska from SFO to SEA in First then Icelandic from SEA to KEF in Business.  Your flight to KEF should be a bit shorter.  Ours is 7 hours and 25 minutes.

Unfortunately, Icelandic doesn't have flat-bed seats in Business, which we've all gotten used to.

[Dolebludger]

13 hours ago, Chateaunole-du-pape said:

Not necessarily. On any given airline, I'm sure that Regent's contract gives them access to only certain fare buckets. So while you might see open seats at any price on the flights in question, that doesn't necessarily mean that the fare class to which Regent has access has availability.

I don’t understand many things about airlines — except that all need to improve! In booking our own, we have always just booked business, and the selected our seats among those available in that class.we have never encountered any “fare buckets”which I assume means different prices among business class seats. So I don’t understand “fare buckets”. But from what I read here, it seems that airline policies are interfering with Regent’s advertised “free business air”. It may be asking too much, but I wish we could get some word direct from Regent with details if the problem, so we would know the situation. 
 

Now, as for Iceland Air, it is true that there are no lay down seats in business, and there is no first. Seating is similar to business on domestic flights. Much like economy but with more space all around, and 2X2 seating instead of 3X3. In about 2018, we took Iceland from Denver to Reykjavik to get to a river cruise. Can’t remember the flight length, but it was doable for us, and cheaper than other business class. But if you have flight legs on either end, you may have to claim and recheck your luggage in route. Bottom line, if Iceland air is the only business class available to a guest, I feel that Regent should give the guest a partial credit/refund, as it is not quite international business class. But, on a positive note, Iceland air allows you a “stay over” in Iceland before continuing your journey, at no extra cost. We did this for two days and enjoyed it. 

[papaflamingo]

15 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

it seems that airline policies are interfering with Regent’s advertised “free business air”.

I'm retired airline. The way it works is that Regent includes a specific amount in your cruise fare for air.  You can see this amount on the website.  This represents the ticket prices that the airlines gives Regent via "contract."  Unfortunately since Covid the airlines are horribly short of flight crews so fewer flights, and so many people are traveling, so seats are pretty much a premium.  Delta, apparently, isn't willing to give Regent "contract rates" anymore.  So that eliminates them from the mix.  That's also why so many flights have stops and undesirable times, vs. non-stop,  i.e. early or late departures, short layovers for flight changes, etc.  The desirable flights are selling for premium and are selling out.  

So, it's not that the airline policies are "interfering with Regent's advertised 'free business air," it's just that ticket prices have gone through the roof so Regent has, and will continue to have to, raise their cruise fares to cover the higher cost of airline tickets.  

[Chateaunole-du-pape]

18 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

I don’t understand many things about airlines — except that all need to improve! In booking our own, we have always just booked business, and the selected our seats among those available in that class.we have never encountered any “fare buckets”which I assume means different prices among business class seats. So I don’t understand “fare buckets”. But from what I read here, it seems that airline policies are interfering with Regent’s advertised “free business air”. It may be asking too much, but I wish we could get some word direct from Regent with details if the problem, so we would know the situation. 

Right - anyone can go to an airline's website and book a flight at whatever price the airline is asking of the general public. However, the cruise lines don't pay those prices. They have access to lower fares than what's available to the general public, but only a certain number of seats are going to be offered at those contracted, negotiated fares on any given flight.

 

Think about it this way - have you ever tried to redeem frequent flyer miles or hotel points and found that while the flight or hotel you wanted had space available if you were willing to pay cash, the award redemptions were not available? It's the same concept. Revenue/Yield Management 101.

[Dolebludger]

So, you are saying that Delta is declining to sell open business first seats to Regent on a flight by flight basis — not refusing Regent on all flights?

 

And was there ever a contract in this regard between Delta and Regent. 

Sorry to be a pest, but we are booked by Regent on a direct flight Denver to London and return this August. This thread raises concern that somehow this may change to a flight with two or more additional connections, in which case we’d want cancel the whole thing, but probably couldn’t. Difficult position for the elderly.

Edited February 4 by Dolebludger

[Chateaunole-du-pape]

10 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

So, you are saying that Delta is declining to sell open business first seats to Regent on a route by route basis —- not industry wide? 

I have no idea what the current arrangement between Delta and Regent is. I was merely pointing out that the mere fact that you can find a business class seat on a particular flight on the Delta website does not necessarily mean that that same seat would be available for Regent to book, as the inventory class that Regent is able to book under the conditions in the contract may not be open. Thus, if you can't get Regent availability, it may not mean that anything has changed with the contract; it may simply mean that the necessary inventory isn't available.

[H2O Polo Willie]

18 hours ago, Mahogany said:

Unfortunately, Icelandic doesn't have flat-bed seats in Business, which we've all gotten used to.

Understood but we are just going to "tough it out" for this one trip!  😪

[Lvwindstar007]

On 2/3/2024 at 7:19 PM, Mahogany said:

Unfortunately, Icelandic doesn't have flat-bed seats in Business, which we've all gotten used to.

We are flying from Reno to Reykjavik in June with the SEA connection. Never traveled on IcelandAir before and will see how the business class seats work out for a fairly long flight.  Jack in Reno 

[Dolebludger]

To answer the question about Iceland Air business class, it is the same as business class on domestic flights, while some other international lines have upgraded business class to include among other things, lay flat seats. All Iceland Air flights have a connection stop in Iceland — as of a few years ago. With that in mind, we found it to be a good airline, substantially less expensive than other lines’ business class. That is why I say, if Regent is providing international business air, they should credit the guest if it books Iceland Air. But if one is paying the fare, the savings would pay for a short stay  in Iceland before continuing on, which Iceland Air allows at no cost, and which we did and enjoyed.

[papaflamingo]

50 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

if Regent is providing international business air, they should credit the guest if it books Iceland Air

I believe Regent only charges what the airline charge to them is.  So the fact that Icelandic Air is not lay-flat but actually domestic first class is already factored into the equation. 

[papaflamingo]

On 2/4/2024 at 12:44 PM, Dolebludger said:

So, you are saying that Delta is declining to sell open business first seats to Regent on a flight by flight basis — not refusing Regent on all flights?

 

And was there ever a contract in this regard between Delta and Regent. 

Delta isn't "declining" to sell open business seats to anyone.  But if Regent has no contract rates at all, all they can do as act as a "travel agent" and book the flights at full price, the same price you can get for yourself.  So what they'll do is only offer to put you on airlines that they have some contract rates, even if that means an upcharge (the contract rate is higher than what they charge in the advertised cruise price for air).  

And yes, Delta DID have contract rates with Regent, and all the other cruise lines for that matter.  The report is that they are no longer offering any contract rates, but that may be overstated.  It could be that they just aren't offering contract rates for certain routes.  And it could be they aren't offering them for certain high time travel dates.  We will really never know other than to ask for.a Delta flight and see what we can get.

I am a retired Delta pilot.  I can get at least a 25% discount on any Delta flight through an employee discount program.  Even with this discount, it was still cheaper for me to book through Regent and pay a $1000 up charge.  And I'm talking at least $1000 CHEAPER.  So Regent's contract rate, even though it required an up charge, was extremely deep.  

Edited February 6 by papaflamingo

[Dolebludger]

Now wait just a minute. Regent just booked us in a non-stop on United from Denver to London and back, with only a deviation charge. Iceland Air goes there too, with one connection in Iceland, and it is much cheaper than United direct. And it’s not quite (just almost) international business class. `Now, if out of necessity or otherwise Regent books a guest on “not quite international business class” when it advertises “free intercontinental business class”, don’t you think some sort of compensation to the guest is in order? Now I am not disrespecting Iceland Air. If I needed to go to Northern Europe and pay for air, I’d book it - as we did a couple of times. It’s a good deal. But it isn’t quite what we think of as “intercontinental business class” 

[papaflamingo]

10 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Now wait just a minute. Regent just booked us in a non-stop on United from Denver to London and back, with only a deviation charge. Iceland Air goes there too, with one connection in Iceland, and it is much cheaper than United direct. And it’s not quite (just almost) international business class. `Now, if out of necessity or otherwise Regent books a guest on “not quite international business class” when it advertises “free intercontinental business class”, don’t you think some sort of compensation to the guest is in order? Now I am not disrespecting Iceland Air. If I needed to go to Northern Europe and pay for air, I’d book it - as we did a couple of times. It’s a good deal. But it isn’t quite what we think of as “intercontinental business class” 

The cost of air is factored into the cost of the cruise, and it's based on contract rates.  Maybe Regent doesn't have contract rates with Icelandic to London.  Maybe you can call Regent and ask to deviate and see if they'll let you go on Icelandic for less.  You might be able to get cheaper rates if you ask to be in economy or premium select too.  But the advertised rate is what their contract is to that port city.

[pappy1022]

I suspect that Regent’s credit for a person arranging their own airfare isn’t the amount they pay for that specific business class seat. On my last cruise to the British Isles the difference between what I would pay for a round trip business class seat and what Regent was offering as a credit was huge. Regent’s credit wasn’t even enough to purchase a premium coach class fare. 

[papaflamingo]

12 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

I suspect that Regent’s credit for a person arranging their own airfare isn’t the amount they pay for that specific business class seat. On my last cruise to the British Isles the difference between what I would pay for a round trip business class seat and what Regent was offering as a credit was huge. Regent’s credit wasn’t even enough to purchase a premium coach class fare. 

I read somewhere (can't really remember where) that the air credit is the actual amount that Regent pays for air, that they don't make money off of it.  I can't actually say where I read that, but last year when I booked our Hong Kong to Tokyo cruise (we leave next week) I compared a similar cruise, Singapore to Tokyo, on Royal Caribbean.  When you look at Royal Caribbean cruises you can also access their Air Dept. and find out what their air costs would be.  So I priced Business Class to Singapore and return from Tokyo.  The cost to purchase those flights using Royal Caribbean was actually a bit MORE than the Regent Air credit.  It could have been the difference between flying to Singapore vs. Hong Kong, but it was very close.  So that indicates that what I read Regent about not making money on their air program is probably correct.  

Edited February 6 by papaflamingo

[pappy1022]

Maybe so Papa but I don’t believe it based on my limited experience. 

[papaflamingo]

18 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

Maybe so Papa but I don’t believe it based on my limited experience. 

Well, I can only comment on what I found.  And since Regent's credit was actually almost exactly the same as Royal Caribbean's price for a similar routing, it indicates that if they are "keeping" any of the air cost, it's extremely small and would be no more than an administrative fee.  But heck... it is what it is and I can't even come close to matching either Royal Caribbean's cost or Regent's cost and I get a 25% or greater discount on Delta via an employee discount program.  

But can I ask, what is your "limited experience?"  I would be sincerely interested in what leads you to the conclusion that Regent is keeping some of the air cost.