Miss leading free drink package

[Smitheroo]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:25 PM, rodndonna said:

 

What I meant was you can't book an FAS and not have the relevant gratuities added, i.e. if you take the beverage package then the gratuities for it are automatically added to the invoice.

Yes, unless you ask them to be removed you will pay them even if you dont drink one alcoholic drink

[Smitheroo]

On 2/17/2024 at 7:01 PM, havoc315 said:

I did exclude them. That’s 3/4ths of adult passengers. Official capacity is just 2 per cabin. That’s why cruises sail above 100% capacity (kids).  
 

And I already have you a source that it’s much more than $1,000 per month.  NCL pays a base pay of $3k-5k per month, and bar tenders earn another $1-2k per month in tips according to Glassdoor. 
 

Another way to look at the math — NCLs drink package is far more expensive than most other cruise lines… even luxury lines. So that would suggest NCL pays their bartenders far more than other cruise lines and/or has a much better staffing ratio. 
 

Again, I have no idea whether the bar staff truly gets all of the “gratuity” charge or not. But the numbers are a bit suspect. 

NCL might be more expensive but at least one other line I know of (Cunard) if you want a drink that costs above their allowable limit (in NCL it is a $15 drink) you cant use the drink package at all, if you want that drink you have to pay 100% of the price of that drink (ie. $18 drink).  I never bothered to find out how many drinks they had that were under the limit.  With NCL, any drink I would want is $15 or less. And if I wanted one that costs $18 I would have to pay $3 for it.

[phillygwm]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:30 PM, kirtihk said:

Yep, similar to 24-month car lease, $299* per month ONLY, with $3,999 down payment (* not included tax, registration fees, dealer fees, $650 acquisition fee, and $350 disposition fee, 10K per year allowance, $0.15 per mile over).

Sure.  Good analogy.  When I was in my early 20's looking for my first new car, I naively went into the dealer thinking I could lease a car for $299/month (or whatever it was back then.)  When I learned the other fees, I felt duped but the information was all there, in fine print, or when I replayed the commercial in slow motion.  Now I know better.

 

Similarly, most first timers learn about DSC, gratuities, etc. when they're well into the booking process.  Not false advertising -- the information is all there -- just in a smaller type than FREE AT SEA!!

 

All of this is not to say that it isn't a good deal, but it could be more transparent if they baked everything into the base fare (and perhaps "discounted" if people wanted to remove some of the FAS components.)

 

[rodndonna]

7 hours ago, Smitheroo said:

Yes, unless you ask them to be removed you will pay them even if you dont drink one alcoholic drink

 

What I was trying to say was (to a poster saying he wished that he knew or they were just on the invoice), was he grats for the relevent parts of FAS you book (at booking an FAS fare, you have the choice of what elements you want of Beverage, Dining,Internet and Shorex), and if you choose to take the Beverage Package you will have to pay the grats  and if you choose to take the Dining, you have to pay those gratuities and they are detailed on your in booking invoice.

[Liljo22]

11 hours ago, Smitheroo said:

You shouldnt have been "mislead" but you have a right to be disappointed.  So in the end the question is do I think it is worth it or not.  If another liner offers a 100% "free" drinks package go for it.  I cant comment on that because I only have experience with one other line and in my opinion, NCL is a much better deal

The funny part in all of this arguing is that Celebrity isn't even offering a free drink package currently.  They are offering an "all included" package which is a $1000 per person add on for a 14 day cruise.  But beverage tips are included in that $1000 so Celebrity isn't misleading anyone making it ok.  

[Liljo22]

Found this interesting since the OP says that Celebrity doesn't mislead them:

 

 

This is discussing Celebrity's "Always Included" promotion which they do not run any more.  Now its the "All Included" promotion which you have to select and it shows that the price is more($500pp for a 7 day).

 

Personally, I would argue that NCL is less misleading.  The extra charges are listed as gratuities and are not just jammed into an increased cruise fare to get what they are saying is free.  

Edited February 19 by Liljo22

[SeaShark]

12 hours ago, havoc315 said:

In the context of retail marketing, “free” is usually understood as “included at no additional charge.”

 

The key word is "usually", which differs significantly from "always". When you buy a cruise without the promotion, a drink package ($109/pppd) and a beverage gratuity ($21.80/pppd) can be added. When the promotion is on, you get the drink package at no additional charge...the promotion is not for the beverage gratuity.

 

12 hours ago, havoc315 said:

I don’t know why there are some people who feel the need to defend NCL’s honor, as if your spouse is being criticized. 

 

If we're going to be p-a, then I don't know why there are some people who feel the need to attack NCL's honor, as if your spouse is being criticized.

 

Being NCL's customer is a choice, not a requirement. If you don't like what they offer, you are free to patronize other businesses. Has to be a better use of your time than wallowing in your dissatisfaction. 

 

12 hours ago, havoc315 said:

You personally don’t feel misled.  That’s fine. Why do you feel the need to attack people who do feel it is misleading?

 

"Attack"? Sorry, but disagreement is not an attack, but is a fact of discussion forums. Are you attacking people who don't feel it is misleading?

[zqvol]

27 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

The key word is "usually", which differs significantly from "always". When you buy a cruise without the promotion, a drink package ($109/pppd) and a beverage gratuity ($21.80/pppd) can be added. When the promotion is on, you get the drink package at no additional charge...the promotion is not for the beverage gratuity.

 

 

If we're going to be p-a, then I don't know why there are some people who feel the need to attack NCL's honor, as if your spouse is being criticized.

 

Being NCL's customer is a choice, not a requirement. If you don't like what they offer, you are free to patronize other businesses. Has to be a better use of your time than wallowing in your dissatisfaction. 

 

 

"Attack"? Sorry, but disagreement is not an attack, but is a fact of discussion forums. Are you attacking people who don't feel it is misleading?

You really shouldn’t feed his ego by arguing with him. 

[graphicguy]

50 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

The key word is "usually", which differs significantly from "always". When you buy a cruise without the promotion, a drink package ($109/pppd) and a beverage gratuity ($21.80/pppd) can be added. When the promotion is on, you get the drink package at no additional charge...the promotion is not for the beverage gratuity.

 

 

If we're going to be p-a, then I don't know why there are some people who feel the need to attack NCL's honor, as if your spouse is being criticized.

 

Being NCL's customer is a choice, not a requirement. If you don't like what they offer, you are free to patronize other businesses. Has to be a better use of your time than wallowing in your dissatisfaction. 

 

 

"Attack"? Sorry, but disagreement is not an attack, but is a fact of discussion forums. Are you attacking people who don't feel it is misleading?

Some people like to argue for argument's sake.  They don't have be logical or make sense, or even realize the only points they make a simply contrarian.  They just like to argue.

 

Miserable way to go through life in my estimations, but I know some who are the exact same.  I steer clear as much as possible.

 

I fell into the trap several weeks ago, and not matter how I showed him his errors, all he wanted to do was argue.  Finally, just realized it wasn't worth my time.

Edited February 19 by graphicguy

[cheersforbeers]

25 minutes ago, zqvol said:

You really shouldn’t feed his ego by arguing with him. 

 

5 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Some people like to argue for argument's sake.  They don't have be logical or make sense, or even realize the only points they make a simply contrarian.  They just like to argue.

 

Some people just want to be right all the time!!  

[havoc315]

51 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

The key word is "usually", which differs significantly from "always". When you buy a cruise without the promotion, a drink package ($109/pppd) and a beverage gratuity ($21.80/pppd) can be added. When the promotion is on, you get the drink package at no additional charge...the promotion is not for the beverage gratuity.

 

Now you get it --- If it was ALWAYS -- That would mean nobody is misleading anybody.  But it's "usually" -- Because some mislead in their marketing?

 

And let's not forget that the promotion has been "on" -- for years ongoing now.  

 

Secondly, even NCL doesn't call it a gratuity charge.  Their fine print calls it a "gratuity and beverage service charge"

 

Beverage service charge... hmm, that could include the glassware, that could include even the alcohol and mixers.  Could certainly include employee salaries, not just the "gratuity."  

 

Third, I can't actually find this $21.80 anywhere on the NCL website.  It's pretty well hidden, and unlikely to be noticed until you're finalizing your booking.

 

First on the main page, it's just "click to learn more" -- The "learn more" doesn't tell you about the $21.80.. but there is another link for "terms and conditions" --- The terms and conditions are really long, scroll and scroll and scroll, you finally find the line about the 20% service charge -- But still doesn't tell you the amount.  

(Honestly, first time I booked FAS, I assumed the service charge was like $10 per day)

 

Photos attached of the webpage and each click.. which still doesn't tell you the dollar amount:

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

 

If we're going to be p-a, then I don't know why there are some people who feel the need to attack NCL's honor, as if your spouse is being criticized.

 

Being NCL's customer is a choice, not a requirement. If you don't like what they offer, you are free to patronize other businesses. Has to be a better use of your time than wallowing in your dissatisfaction. 

 

 

"Attack"? Sorry, but disagreement is not an attack, but is a fact of discussion forums. Are you attacking people who don't feel it is misleading?

 

 

Nope, I respect that you don't feel misled.  Yet, you seem to not respect that there are other people who do feel misled.  

 

Let's make it simple, do you accept that there are intelligent, reasonable people, who would find the NCL marketing to be misleading?

 

 

[GALSews]

On 2/18/2024 at 8:37 AM, hallux said:

I know what you said, but I'm doing it anyway - Free At Sea, the offer of add-ons of beverages and dining.

You forgot the $50 for first person on excursions and the 150 minutes of WiFi. These last two have no additional fees. 

[kirtihk]

23 minutes ago, cheersforbeers said:

 

Some people just want to be right all the time!!  

Nothing wrong with that desire.  All it takes is stiving for perfectionism, not non-stop arguing!

[PTC DAWG]

18 hours ago, Russiamomm said:

Yikes is right!  That alone is reason is reason to sail with NCL!  At least I can get Buffalo Trace with the basic package!  😂

I have upgraded to premium for as low as $5.99 PPPD on Celebrity, and I realize we are getting way off track here…

[Two Wheels Only]

 

22 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

Third, I can't actually find this $21.80 anywhere on the NCL website.  It's pretty well hidden, and unlikely to be noticed until you're finalizing your booking.

 

It's 10 lines down below what you pasted. 

 

It should be noticed long before entering any names and long before making a down payment. 

 

18 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

The terms and conditions are really long, scroll and scroll and scroll, you finally find the line about the 20% service charge -- But still doesn't tell you the amount.  

(Honestly, first time I booked FAS, I assumed the service charge was like $10 per day)

 

It's there...

 

Unlimited Open Bar Package (Open Bar)...

 

...For sailings on or after to January 1, 2023:

Guests are responsible for 20% gratuities on the retail value of the Unlimited Open Bar Package ($21.80 USD per person per day) and/or Soda Package ($1.59 USD per person per day) prior to cruise.

 

Even if people don't notice the daily amount, they can see the running total as they select their stateroom type, location, etc. If the price changed after entering a down payment, I'd 100% agree with you. The point is that before anyone enters any payment information, that person can see the total for their cruise (taxes, port fees, service charges, etc.). Nothing is hidden from anyone but some people get locked into the "...starting at..." price and the "...free..." items and don't pay attention to what they are buying. 

[havoc315]

6 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

 

It's 10 lines down below what you pasted. 

 

It should be noticed long before entering any names and long before making a down payment. 

 

 

It's there...

 

Unlimited Open Bar Package (Open Bar)...

 

...For sailings on or after to January 1, 2023:

Guests are responsible for 20% gratuities on the retail value of the Unlimited Open Bar Package ($21.80 USD per person per day) and/or Soda Package ($1.59 USD per person per day) prior to cruise.

 

You're absolutely right.  It is there.  

 

Though, your quote raises a logical question:

If you had 4 adults in the room, NCL would give all 4 adults the "$109" package, as long as they just pay the "service charge."  And of course, that "$109 package" includes fountain sodas.

 

So why would they not give guests under 21 the soda package... charging those guests $1.59 per day."  

I suspect I know the answer, but it's purely speculative (they actually make money on the average guest charging $21.80 per day, but they would lose money on a soda package for $1.59 per day).  

 

6 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Even if people don't notice the daily amount, they can see the running total as they select their stateroom type, location, etc. If the price changed after entering a down payment, I'd 100% agree with you. The point is that before anyone enters any payment information, that person can see the total for their cruise (taxes, port fees, service charges, etc.). Nothing is hidden from anyone but some people get locked into the "...starting at..." price and the "...free..." items and don't pay attention to what they are buying. 

 

If the price changed after entering final payment, then that would be CRIMINAL.

Wouldn't you agree that there are statements that may be misleading but not criminal?

 

I will totally agree that NCL's behavior does not appear to be criminal.  I totally agree that the full price is available to review before processing payment.   

 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

1 minute ago, havoc315 said:

So why would they not give guests under 21 the soda package... charging those guests $1.59 per day."  

 

 

If the under 21 is guest #2, that minor does get the soda package and is charged $1.59 pppd. By default, the system charges the full $21.80 for everyone but adjusts/lowers after the age of the minor guests is entered.

 

 

[G-DawgMN]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

Some people like to argue for argument's sake.  They don't have be logical or make sense, or even realize the only points they make a simply contrarian.  They just like to argue.

 

Miserable way to go through life in my estimations, but I know some who are the exact same.  I steer clear as much as possible.

 

I fell into the trap several weeks ago, and not matter how I showed him his errors, all he wanted to do was argue.  Finally, just realized it wasn't worth my time.

 

  I've had the same thing happen on another thread. I found that I was happier to add them to my ignore list, it's not worth engaging.

 

 

[havoc315]

2 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

If the under 21 is guest #2, that minor does get the soda package and is charged $1.59 pppd. By default, the system charges the full $21.80 for everyone but adjusts/lowers after the age of the minor guests is entered.

 

 

 

Interesting, but not for guests 3&4.. though they would give adult guests 3&4 the more expensive alcohol package.  I truly do wonder what the logic is. 

[bkrickles1]

50 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

 

Let's make it simple, do you accept that there are intelligent, reasonable people, who would find the NCL marketing to be misleading?

 

 

No!

[Two Wheels Only]

1 minute ago, havoc315 said:

 

Interesting, but not for guests 3&4.. though they would give adult guests 3&4 the more expensive alcohol package.  I truly do wonder what the logic is. 

 

Yes. Even adult guests 3&4 (who are charged a much smaller fare than guests 1&2) would get the PBP if the promo is selected and would be charged only $21.80 more.

[Liljo22]

1 hour ago, havoc315 said:

 

Interesting, but not for guests 3&4.. though they would give adult guests 3&4 the more expensive alcohol package.  I truly do wonder what the logic is. 

I see it as adults in 3&4 could get drinks from 1&2 without paying.  I was on a spring break cruise with a lot of college kids before this change and bartenders were constantly taking cards because the guests were giving drinks to cabin mates that did not have the package.  

Edited February 19 by Liljo22

[havoc315]

2 minutes ago, Liljo22 said:

I see it as adults in 3&4 could get drinks from 1&2 without paying.  I was on a spring break cruise with a lot of college kids before this change and bartenders were constantly taking cards because the guests were giving drinks to cabin mates that did not have the package.  

True. But same logic applies to the soda package for under 21.  The adults can get soda with the unlimited package and give it to the non-paying kids. 

[Liljo22]

54 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

True. But same logic applies to the soda package for under 21.  The adults can get soda with the unlimited package and give it to the non-paying kids. 

Cost to NCL of a fountain drink is probably less than twenty cents and you are not going to get kids pounding sodas all day so its probably less of a worry.  On my last NCL cruise, we were not charged once for a soda my son & daughter ordered with dinner.   

Edited February 19 by Liljo22

[julig22]

6 minutes ago, Liljo22 said:

Cost to NCL of a fountain drink is probably less than twenty cents and you are not going to get kids pounding sodas all day so its probably less of a worry.  On my last NCL cruise, we were not charged once for a soda my son & daughter ordered with dinner.   

Too bad they won't include the soda package as a FAS option for adults that don't drink.