Seabourn leasing out their expedition ships?

[Corony]

Seems odd to be leasing these out so soon after building them?

https://latteluxurynews.com/2024/02/21/seabourn-apt-forge-new-expedition-cruise-partnership/

[nancygp]

For now, apt will have 6 charters on the pursuit and the possibility of more charters in 2026.  Initially all the articles I read made it sound like both expedition ships were permanently chartered to APT

 

heres another article 

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/expedition-cruising/apt-charter-seabourn-expedition-cruise-

 

NANCY

[Corony]

Thanks Nancy,

My first impression was the same. I was under the belief that had chartered them for almost two years with the possibility of an extension. 

[skybluewaters]

"APT...is eyeing an expansion of the alliance into Seabourn’s legacy ocean vessels."

 

First the Odyssey (to a Japanese company), now the expedition vessels, and soon perhaps the remainder of Seabourn's fleet...feels as though the brand is being nibbled away. 

 

Could it be that APT is using the expedition ships as a lease-to-own trial with regards to the entirety of Seabourn's fleet?

[markandjie]

I find a couple of different elements of this to be interesting:

 

First, the origin story of APT sounds very very similar to that of Scenic's founder, who also started in Australian bus tours and then expanded into river and ocean cruises. One of the quotes from APT almost sounds like "well, we thought about building ships like Scenic but instead we're just gonna charter Seabourn for now". 

 

My understanding of these charters, after speaking to someone who chartered the full ship, is that Seabourn provides all of the staff, including expedition team, and the organization who chartered it is responsible for filling the suites and selecting the itinerary. So this really just saves Seabourn the trouble of filling that inventory and gives them some guaranteed revenue to amortize some very expensive assets.

 

It's an interesting development and one that doesn't seem entirely positive.

 

 

[sfvoyage]

I'm not an industry insider, but this strongly suggests to me that Seabourn has determined that it needs outside help filling cabins on their 2 expedition ships, because they can't sell enough cabins at high enough rates for sustainable profitability.  Otherwise, why would SB enlist a 3rd party to help sell their own inventory?

 

In this article:  https://latteluxurynews.com/2024/01/19/apt-new-ships-in-2025/

 

The 14-day Arctic Explorer Small Ship Expedition Cruise Reykjavik Return explores the coastlines of Iceland and Greenland, giving an in-depth view of the landscapes and culture in this region. Prices start at $18,395 per person, twin share. Book by 30 April 2024 for an Early bird saving of up to $3,000 per couple.

 

The starting per diem rate is higher than Seabourn's recent pricing.  What's so special about APT that they can get their client base to pay a premium?  And if their itineraries will be unique and thus not offered through Seabourn, Seabourn customers will have to book through APT at their elevated pricing.

 

I guess I'll have to wait for APT to publish their voyage brochures to figure out how this will play out.

[toseaornottosea]

3 minutes ago, sfvoyage said:

In this article:  https://latteluxurynews.com/2024/01/19/apt-new-ships-in-2025/

 

The 14-day Arctic Explorer Small Ship Expedition Cruise Reykjavik Return explores the coastlines of Iceland and Greenland, giving an in-depth view of the landscapes and culture in this region. Prices start at $18,395 per person, twin share. Book by 30 April 2024 for an Early bird saving of up to $3,000 per couple.

 

Latte is an Australian company and in all likelyhood that $18,395 price per person is in Australian dollars which translates to around $12,000 US.  On the US Seabourn website the price for the Venture,  August 16, 2024, 14 day Icelandic Saga Reykjavik return starts at $11,024.  Their early bird saving gets it down to $15,395 Australian or around $10,200 US.  So when it comes down to it it's not an elevated price.

[sanne]

APT also packages up cruises with land tours. So in the Kimberley it looks like on several of their cruises they have land and sea itineraries. This could be very interesting for both local and overseas passengers. Kimberley cruises generally only 10 days and there is so much more to see and experience. 

[sfvoyage]

11 minutes ago, toseaornottosea said:

Latte is an Australian company and in all likelyhood that $18,395 price per person is in Australian dollars which translates to around $12,000 US.  On the US Seabourn website the price for the Venture,  August 16, 2024, 14 day Icelandic Saga Reykjavik return starts at $11,024.  Their early bird saving gets it down to $15,395 Australian or around $10,200 US.  So when it comes down to it it's not an elevated price.

Yes, if it is AUD, that particular price example, with the early bird special, is not out of line.

[cruising kirby]

29 minutes ago, sanne said:

APT also packages up cruises with land tours. So in the Kimberley it looks like on several of their cruises they have land and sea itineraries. This could be very interesting for both local and overseas passengers. Kimberley cruises generally only 10 days and there is so much more to see and experience. 

APT are a very reputable company in Australia. As noted above they package cruises and land content, not just here in Australia but around the world. They are a luxury product and I can see how they would align with Seabourn. Having said that I’m a little sad about these developments……………. 

[Sunprince]

I had wondered why Natalya flew all the way to Sydney, just for an event for the next leg of the world cruise.  I thought it was a nice thing to do, but now we know the real reason.  
 

Did this new arrangement come up in her Q&A with the world cruisers? What did she say?  I’m guessing not as it was announced shortly after Sojourn left Sydney. 

[frantic36]

11 hours ago, Sunprince said:

Did this new arrangement come up in her Q&A with the world cruisers? What did she say?  I’m guessing not as it was announced shortly after Sojourn left Sydney. 

 

The timing was odd with her Q&A on Sojourn. It was done at lunchtime on the day we arrived in Sydney. Therefore most people already had other plans for the day so I think there were less then 30 passengers at the event when the ship was fairly full. 

 

I had lunch organised with friends that day and everyone else we knew on the sailing also missed it so no clue what was discussed.

[DTtravelers]

Cruising the Kimberly area sounds very interesting, so I checked out what it would take to get there.  Spending 20+ hours in the air for only a 10 or 11 day cruise isn't something I would ever consider.  It would take at least 3 weeks for the flight ordeal to recess sufficiently in my brain to go through it  again.  Actually, sailing back would be way more appealing...

 

I would consider a longer trip with land and sea elements to explore the region, so this type of arrangement has some appeal. 

 

 

[TakingFlight]

2 hours ago, DTtravelers said:

 

I would consider a longer trip with land and sea elements to explore the region, so this type of arrangement has some appeal. 

 

 

We are on one of the Kimberley sailings next year. We’ll fly to Adelaide and spend a few nights there, then board the Ghan train for a ride through the Outback. We’re doing their Explorer trip which includes the train ride, Kakadu National Park and Darwin, 7 nights total. Then we’ll do the Kimberley. There are plenty of ways to expand your time in Australia. We’ve done Sydney and Great Barrier Reef and want to do something different this time. 

[Sunprince]

My question is…now that Seabourn has partially chartered out its expedition ships to an Australian company, how does one book one of those cruises? Is it a partnership with Seabourn? Or must you only book those cruises exclusively through the Australian company?  For many, including myself, booking through an Australian company would not be the same as booking through Seabourn, and likely not an option for those outside of Australia. 
 

Perhaps someone has this answer to this….why would Seabourn build two new beautiful expedition ships only to turn around and charter them out? Is it solely a money play? If so, then I really question their corporate strategy. I wish Natalya would answer this glaringly obvious question. 

[sfvoyage]

22 minutes ago, Sunprince said:

My question is…now that Seabourn has partially chartered out its expedition ships to an Australian company, how does one book one of those cruises? Is it a partnership with Seabourn? Or must you only book those cruises exclusively through the Australian company?  For many, including myself, booking through an Australian company would not be the same as booking through Seabourn, and likely not an option for those outside of Australia. 
 

Perhaps someone has this answer to this….why would Seabourn build two new beautiful expedition ships only to turn around and charter them out? Is it solely a money play? If so, then I really question their corporate strategy. I wish Natalya would answer this glaringly obvious question. 

I have the same questions, and I would like to continue booking with my trusted agent.

[texanaust]

5 hours ago, Sunprince said:

Is it solely a money play?

 

Yes, Australians will pay more, especially with APT.  Depending on the cruise line, Australians in general pay more for their cruises than Americans or Brits. 

 

In addition, it is unlikely that US based TA's will have access to APT's itineraries.

[margbem]

We have literally just completed a 3 week land tour of Vietnam and Cambodia and a 7 night river cruise on the Mekong with APT. We have nothing but praise for the organisation of the tour, the tour director and all the attention by APT that led to the smooth running of the holiday. BUT, and this is a big but for us, APT’s alcohol policy stinks! We stayed in 5* hotels whilst in the cities and the Mekong Serenity river boat is brand new. The policy in the hotels was ONE drink, wine (very small glass), one beer or one soft drink with dinner. The wine was the hotel’s house wine. On one occasion only one small bottle of water was provided. Anything else was an extra charge. My husband had an extra glass of wine one night and it cost £10.50 ☹️
 

On the boat (and here lies my question if APT charters Seabourn ships), the wine provided was dreadful. You could have as many glasses as you liked but it was hardly drinkable. The cocktails on offer were from a very short list, otherwise there was a charge. If you purchase an APT trip that includes a Seabourn cruise, are they going to inflict the same poor standard wines and a lack of choice in other drinks?

Edited February 26 by margbem
Grammar

[jjs217]

From what you described, APT's alcohol policy would totally put me off of Seabourn's Pursuit and Venture, if they did institute the same. I would sure like to know the answer to that question.

[margbem]

12 hours ago, jjs217 said:

From what you described, APT's alcohol policy would totally put me off of Seabourn's Pursuit and Venture, if they did institute the same. I would sure like to know the answer to that question.

Absolutely 

[IMNiles]

I have an alternate perspective.  While I have no insight into the details of this specific partnership, there is a non-dramatic precedent in the form of AMAWaterways (river cruise line).  For many years, APT has partnered with AMA to charter some of their voyages and market them in Australia, where AMA has a comparatively weak presence.  I believe I heard that APT also helped finance some of AMA’s ships as a part of this cooperative agreement.  I do know that AMAWaterways is very much a going concern, and this is in no way a “try before you buy” situation - it is a successful long term partnership.  The APT charters work very much like AMA cruises, except that some terms like gratuities are adjusted to match Australian expectations.  I suspect the same may also be true in this case.  Seabourn wants to get exposure to the Australian market, and APT is a very large and extremely well regarded player there.  This charter could well be not just an opportunity to not only fill ships, but to possibly reach a market where Seabourn would like to grow their presence, with much less risk than trying to launch a marketing effort on their own.

 

This is not a bare-metal charter, so as someone else stated, Seabourn is operating the ship, but it is also true that in this kind of arrangement the charter company does have some control over certain aspects of the operation (by specifying brands that would appeal to their audience, for instance).  This said, I find it hard to believe that Seabourn would be willing to risk their reputation by allowing a charter company to dictate a food and beverage program that would be antithetical  to their own principles such that it would lead to bad press.

 

Of course, we won’t find out for sure what the experience is like until someone sails and reports back 🙂

 

 

[2SailingNomads]

It may be a win for Seabourn financially but probably not for longtime pax.  I was looking at the Kimberly for '25, friends have a great trip on the Pursuit this year BTB's but next year there are times when the ship is not available to do the same.  The APT company may be great but if I am sailing on a Seabourn ship I want to be assured it is the Seabourn product.

[adoctor]

I find this a puzzling arrangements. A financial move to provide some certainty for future cash flows probably but from a customer perspective it makes little sense. It will irritate the loyalists and confuse potential customers and travel agents. Access to a relatively small(in global terms) Australian market does not stack up for me.

The only thing that would make strategic sense for Carnival would be a "try it and see" deal with APT in order for them to acquire the whole of Seabourn. With the Japanese company who have acquired the Odyssey also rumored to be in the frame this could set up a higher value divestment for Carnival over the medium term.

 

[Kane]

This does seem quite an odd development that makes corporate direction a bit discombobulated.

 

We just returned from a Seabourn voyage where public goodbyes were made for the upcoming Odyssey departure.  This was offset by a slick theater presentation of the new Venture ships as the future of Seabourn, which may now be smoke and mirrors?

 

Huh?

[IMNiles]

I suspect if Seabourn really wanted out of the expedition market, there would be ready buyers for the two ships given the explosion of the luxury expedition market and the number of players who would otherwise have to wait to build their own.  I don’t see a need to resort to anything more indirect.  Agreed, that longtime Seabourn folks probably want to avoid the APT-chartered sailings until more is known about how they run.  Is it possible that Seabourn has just decided that they’d rather run the hotel side of things and let someone else run the expedition side?  I suppose only time will tell.