Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[molecrochip]

17 minutes ago, DryDocker said:

It appears it was known the cabin crew would be out of hours and need rest, and so a significant delay was to be expected.

This is the bit I don't understand and am asking questions about. It is never the same crew who do UK-Caribbean and then Carribbean-UK in the same day.

 

Cabin crew need 12(?) hours off between end of one shift and start of another. Fine on a dialy route as its one overnight. Routes not operated 7 days a week can be more difficult. I know Virgin/BA/Tui bounce their cabin crew around the Islands to avoid long layovers.

 

With Maleth only operating two days a week, either a set of crew get a 6 day break in the Caribbean or they return to London as passengers. The flip applies with the return crew.

 

If true here, passengers are suggesting that Maleth are so short of crew that they created a 12 hour delay to enable the same crew to work the return flight. For most airlines its cheaper to have crew fly as passengers than keep a aircraft out of use for 12 hours downline.

[Froxfield]

23 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Surprising his a teacher and has so much time off.

He is transparent as to the financing of his cruising if you were to review his vlogs. And how the cruises he takes fit into his work as a teacher: this last one on Arvia being evidently in school vacation time! He has held senior management roles in secondary education and is now gradually stepping back into part-time teaching.  I have no direct evidence of his capabilities, but the arrangements he has been able to make to change his responsibilities, whilst staying in the same school, suggest that he must have been considered a valuable member of staff. I have found over the months that his comments are well structured and argued and at least as valid as one encounters on cruisecritic!  Of course he has a style that may, or may not, appeal to all but overall I find him to be reliable and balanced. Very far from the ill-organised rants beginning to appear from other vloggers on this particular incident!  I confidently expect that his full edited reports will provide a detailed blow by blow account with evidence. Let's not descend to criticism of this individual which comes close to trolling? 

[Froxfield]

3 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

This is the bit I don't understand and am asking questions about. It is never the same crew who do UK-Caribbean and then Carribbean-UK in the same day.

 

Cabin crew need 12(?) hours off between end of one shift and start of another. Fine on a dialy route as its one overnight. Routes not operated 7 days a week can be more difficult. I know Virgin/BA/Tui bounce their cabin crew around the Islands to avoid long layovers.

 

With Maleth only operating two days a week, either a set of crew get a 6 day break in the Caribbean or they return to London as passengers. The flip applies with the return crew.

 

If true here, passengers are suggesting that Maleth are so short of crew that they created a 12 hour delay to enable the same crew to work the return flight. For most airlines its cheaper to have crew fly as passengers than keep a aircraft out of use for 12 hours downline.

Given how non-transparent all parties have been here it is indeed difficult to understand. With so few aircraft (and therefore crew?) maybe the hiccup with turbulence that occurred last week, combined with the bad UK weather of recent days, created exceptional issues of crew availability?

[molecrochip]

1 minute ago, Froxfield said:

Given how non-transparent all parties have been here it is indeed difficult to understand. With so few aircraft (and therefore crew?) maybe the hiccup with turbulence that occurred last week, combined with the bad UK weather of recent days, created exceptional issues of crew availability?

Possible, Maleth did send an extra aircraft and crew out to Bermuda to bring the passengers home. I'm presuming the original crew brought the passengers back on the 26th and the replacement crew brought the original plane back a couple of days later when all checks were complete.

[carlanthony24]

9 minutes ago, Froxfield said:

He is transparent as to the financing of his cruising if you were to review his vlogs. And how the cruises he takes fit into his work as a teacher: this last one on Arvia being evidently in school vacation time! He has held senior management roles in secondary education and is now gradually stepping back into part-time teaching.  I have no direct evidence of his capabilities, but the arrangements he has been able to make to change his responsibilities, whilst staying in the same school, suggest that he must have been considered a valuable member of staff. I have found over the months that his comments are well structured and argued and at least as valid as one encounters on cruisecritic!  Of course he has a style that may, or may not, appeal to all but overall I find him to be reliable and balanced. Very far from the ill-organised rants beginning to appear from other vloggers on this particular incident!  I confidently expect that his full edited reports will provide a detailed blow by blow account with evidence. Let's not descend to criticism of this individual which comes close to trolling? 

It’s not trolling it’s just criticism difference

[tring]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

This is the bit I don't understand and am asking questions about. It is never the same crew who do UK-Caribbean and then Carribbean-UK in the same day.

 

Cabin crew need 12(?) hours off between end of one shift and start of another. Fine on a dialy route as its one overnight. Routes not operated 7 days a week can be more difficult. I know Virgin/BA/Tui bounce their cabin crew around the Islands to avoid long layovers.

 

With Maleth only operating two days a week, either a set of crew get a 6 day break in the Caribbean or they return to London as passengers. The flip applies with the return crew.

 

If true here, passengers are suggesting that Maleth are so short of crew that they created a 12 hour delay to enable the same crew to work the return flight. For most airlines its cheaper to have crew fly as passengers than keep a aircraft out of use for 12 hours downline.

 

Quite, the same crew do not fly back for long haul flights.  The blogger was totally wrong about that, which says a lot about him imo.

 

Edited January 3 by tring

[CarlaMarie]

2 hours ago, Presto2 said:

Just concerns me that some of the people who complain so loudly and make things out to be soooooo terrible have limited experience or been fortunate that all has gone smoothly in the past. Yes it was not a good experience but in the great scheme of things .... and being a blogger doesn't make them an expert. 

 

If you do get a chance, do listen to Jamie's vlog (can be found on YouTube). To be fair to him he wasn't complaining about either plane journey or the cruise itself, but was more disappointed in P&O's handling of the situation.

 

From what he has said, and from what others have also posted - passengers seemed to be well aware that the plane was not taking off as scheduled (due to the events the day before with the Maleth flight), and furthermore seemed to know that the crew would need rest (suggesting they knew Maleth were short of crew). Yet P&O assured them the plane was taking off as planned and took them to the airport at about 1am. That is the issue. The lack of transparency has made it all very difficult to understand. 

 

He did reiterate that he felt completely safe on the flights (albeit, P&O would be well aware that the Maleth offering in terms of facilities, fittings and comfort is less than you would be expecting) and that the cabin crew were fantastic.

 

He also added that some passengers were overcome with hysteria and concerns (fed by the turbulence incident, and social media discussions about the safety of Maleth which have been misleading), especially families, when there was a valve fault that needed fixing and they couldn't take off. Some passengers decided to get off the plane as they had just had enough by that point , which he completely  understood (even though it delayed departure again as their luggage had to be located and removed).

 

Edited January 3 by CarlaMarie

[carlanthony24]

9 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Quite, the same crew do not fly back for long haul flights.  The blogger was totally wrong about that, which says a lot about him imo.

 

It does happen. It would be minimum rest. Legally because they were positioning the flight out the hours of rest needed can be different to when you actually operate with passengers. This is why the flight deck deal with the hours and legal workings because its so complicated.

 

Considering the inbound landed 07:05PM Antigua time then crew got to hotel by say 8PM then got to the aircraft by about 9am next day 13hrs would be considered fine.

Edited January 3 by carlanthony24

[molecrochip]

5 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Quite, the same crew do not fly back for long haul flights.  The blogger was totally wrong about that, which says a lot about him imo.

 

Not necessarily wrong @tring

 

The outbound plane landed at 7pm into Antigua. If a new crew (already in Antigua) was available then a 9/10pm departure would have been possible.

 

The fact that there was a further 12 hour delay in Antigua suggests that this was an issue.

 

Now, if I was P&O expecting a different flight crew for the return leg, I would then be asking my guests to return to the muster point at 5pm to be disembarked to the airport. This was the time they were asked to arrive.

 

This to me suggests that P&O were not aware of the crew issue until the plane arrived in Antigua. By this point, the existing passengers had to free up rooms.

 

My enquiries today suggest that if a new crew had flown out as passengers then a 5am departure was possible. Remember P&O advised of an 4.40am flight time. Instead, it was the same crew so 7am departure. Add in the security hours operated in Antigua and you have a situation that was not of P&O’s making.

 

There does however have to be serious questions over the information Maleth provided to P&O and whether they breached their charter contract.

[molecrochip]

To add: I think P&O could have helped with the comfort factor, however I do believe the ship was feed incorrect information from head office because head office had been fed incorrect information from Maleth.

 

Why were the cruise cards withheld on leaving the ship. This was to stop re-entry. You’re disembarking a group in the middle of the night, last thing you want is someone to split and re-enter the ship. You’re limited to announcements for finding someone during the hours of darkness. By retaining the cruise card, they can’t scan back on.

 

Its not normally a problem as you have lots of staff hearding people around and the ability to find/announce for people during usual change over days.

[molecrochip]

If the 12 hour delay has been in the U.K. then the returning passengers could have kept cabins over night. Some might have needed to swap cabins but it would have been possible as outbound passengers would also have been delayed. Unusually, this was a delayed that occurred after all new passengers arrived restricting P&Os options.

[CarlaMarie]

25 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Not necessarily wrong @tring

 

The outbound plane landed at 7pm into Antigua. If a new crew (already in Antigua) was available then a 9/10pm departure would have been possible.

 

The fact that there was a further 12 hour delay in Antigua suggests that this was an issue.

 

Now, if I was P&O expecting a different flight crew for the return leg, I would then be asking my guests to return to the muster point at 5pm to be disembarked to the airport. This was the time they were asked to arrive.

 

This to me suggests that P&O were not aware of the crew issue until the plane arrived in Antigua. By this point, the existing passengers had to free up rooms.

 

My enquiries today suggest that if a new crew had flown out as passengers then a 5am departure was possible. Remember P&O advised of an 4.40am flight time. Instead, it was the same crew so 7am departure. Add in the security hours operated in Antigua and you have a situation that was not of P&O’s making.

 

There does however have to be serious questions over the information Maleth provided to P&O and whether they breached their charter contract.

 

Thank you for the explanation and an update on your enquiries, it is very much appreciated. 

 

As the passengers seemed to have already worked it out and read it online, then surely Maleth should have informed P&O directly that the plane wasn't likely to take off until at least 7am? Or should someone at P&O have checked considering it was an already delayed departure? 

[carlanthony24]

1 hour ago, CarlaMarie said:

 

Thank you for the explanation and an update on your enquiries, it is very much appreciated. 

 

As the passengers seemed to have already worked it out and read it online, then surely Maleth should have informed P&O directly that the plane wasn't likely to take off until at least 7am? Or should someone at P&O have checked considering it was an already delayed departure? 

To be honest Maleth could of be chancing and hoping they would of got away at 4:40am and then found out the issues with staff etc.

[doog442]

12 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

It does happen. It would be minimum rest. Legally because they were positioning the flight out the hours of rest needed can be different to when you actually operate with passengers. This is why the flight deck deal with the hours and legal workings because its so complicated.

 

Considering the inbound landed 07:05PM Antigua time then crew got to hotel by say 8PM then got to the aircraft by about 9am next day 13hrs would be considered fine.

 

My daughter works long haul for BA (previously out of Gatwick - now Heathrow). Although it's legal it rarely happens that a long haul crew fly the same plane back even after the recommended break. 

 

For starters and of the upmost importance, is that they get to top up their tan by the pool, get silly drunk, take loads of pics and put them on instagram and take in a spot of sightseeing. 🤣

 

It's also worth noting how much happier said crew are on the way out, than on the way back.

 

To be fair she's binned off LGW and the holiday routes for LHR as the main priority for UK passengers is usually to drink the plane dry 😉

[Bill Y]

29 minutes ago, doog442 said:

 

My daughter works long haul for BA (previously out of Gatwick - now Heathrow). Although it's legal it rarely happens that a long haul crew fly the same plane back even after the recommended break. 

 

For starters and of the upmost importance, is that they get to top up their tan by the pool, get silly drunk, take loads of pics and put them on instagram and take in a spot of sightseeing. 🤣

 

It's also worth noting how much happier said crew are on the way out, than on the way back.

 

To be fair she's binned off LGW and the holiday routes for LHR as the main priority for UK passengers is usually to drink the plane dry 😉

Could not have been better put by the late Spike Milligan when he explained why documentaries were made abroad. The above except it was before Instagram but added that the expenses were just right and the quality of the light was not bad either.

[kermchem]

OK, another Friday morning, time 10.20 am. It appears that flight MLT1972 the 9.20 from Gatwick to Barbados is sitting on the ground at Gatwick. Departures are showing the gate as closed. Presumably the passanger are sitting in the gate or on the plane.. Meanwhile the Manchester flight MLT1974 departed Manchester at 10.04 half an hour late and is currently flying in a direction that suggests it is going to land at Gatwick rather than Barbados!

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, kermchem said:

OK, another Friday morning, time 10.20 am. It appears that flight MLT1972 the 9.20 from Gatwick to Barbados is sitting on the ground at Gatwick. Departures are showing the gate as closed. Presumably the passanger are sitting in the gate or on the plane.. Meanwhile the Manchester flight MLT1974 departed Manchester at 10.04 half an hour late and is currently flying in a direction that suggests it is going to land at Gatwick rather than Barbados!

The Manchester flight is going a very strange route…. They usually fly over Ireland and down. It looks to be heading across France as we speak. No other BGI bound aircraft has set off yet, but a BA to Antigua has gone the other way (as they usually do, across south coast from LGW)

 

A Virgin flight to Orlando from MAN has also gone the way I expected…across to Ireland. 

edit

Looked at some previous flight paths- it has done this route before. Phew! Looks like they are keeping close to land 

Edited January 5 by Glitterati

[jeanlyon]

That flight looks like it will land on time or just before.  They wouldn't choose the route necessarily, Flight control would.  Sticking close to land?????  Hardly!!

Edited January 5 by jeanlyon

[Guest]

5 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

That flight looks like it will land on time or just before.  They wouldn't choose the route necessarily, Flight control would.  Sticking close to land?????  Hardly!!

Well, it went over France and Northern Spain as opposed to straight across the Atlantic! 

[Well boy 91]

More Maleth woes today.   The 0930 flight from Gatwick to Bridgetown is presently sat on runway at Gatwick. Reports from other places of technical issues with the plane 

[zap99]

17 hours ago, Glitterati said:

Well, it went over France and Northern Spain as opposed to straight across the Atlantic! 

The southern great circle route. The world being a sphere and not flat.🤣

[doog442]

16 minutes ago, Well boy 91 said:

More Maleth woes today.   The 0930 flight from Gatwick to Bridgetown is presently sat on runway at Gatwick. Reports from other places of technical issues with the plane 

 

Departed at 1406 apparently, still a hell of a delay and rubbish start for many. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

51 minutes ago, doog442 said:

 

Departed at 1406 apparently, still a hell of a delay and rubbish start for many. 

Is that 300 pounds per person compensation?

 

The worst ones are the ones that allow you to arrive with just less than 3 hours delay aren't they. And no compensation 

 

It's based on landing time I think. Some can take off 4 hrs late but land less than 3 hrs late and catch you out

 

Am I correct above?

 

600 pounds per couple compensation they can claim ?

 

To help make up for 4.5 hrs hanging around?

 

Providing they claim it?

 

Edit ive just checked and due to the flight being over 3,500kms if it lands 4 hrs or more late (which will be possible) then they can claim 520 pounds each

 

1040 pounds compensation per couple!!

 

That's a lot of cocktails!!

 

If 3 to 4 hours late its 260 each for that distance flight

 

If it's the airlines fault which it appears to be and not weather related delay

Edited January 6 by Interestedcruisefan

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

The southern great circle route. The world being a sphere and not flat.🤣

Exactly.  Of course you can fly a different route.

[carlanthony24]

2 hours ago, Well boy 91 said:

More Maleth woes today.   The 0930 flight from Gatwick to Bridgetown is presently sat on runway at Gatwick. Reports from other places of technical issues with the plane 

Another site someone who flew out said besides the seats looking tired. Food, legroom etc was good and people did not seem to moan. 

 

Another site someone complained to P&O and Maleth for having to wait ages for bags at Manchester. Its neither P&O or Maleth fault its the handling agent who take forever to deliver them and Manchester they are awfully slow. Unless they are directly employed by the airline E.G Jet2 they seem to arrive much quicker.