Lawyer already to sue for Celbrity bus accident

[cechase]

I am a frequent poster on the Celebrity threads and in October 2001 retired as an attorney after practicing law for 38 years. We had a very nice small lawfirm in Burlingame, CA where I practiced real estate and corporate law, and my female partners practiced family law [and they were recognized as the best in their field in the Bay Area].

 

Both in my early years and in my later years, I represented employers and corporations, and as a result knew many of the employees. When I was a young attorney one of my client's employees was seriously injured, and he and his wife asked us [not the other way around] to represent him. After a newspaper account of his accident, and while he was in the hospital with both of his legs in casts, a very prominent senior partner of a large personal injury firm went to see him and tried to sign him up. Such conduct is in my opinion and always has been unethical and should be subject to discipline by the bar, but rarely is.

 

After this incident, and when I had my own firm, we had a policy not to handle personal injury matters, but to refer them out to an attorney who was known, reputable, and did not advertise or chase victums. He was very successful in a low key manner. The husband of the secretary of the CEO of a company that I represented was killed when a huge tire on a truck exploded. The CEO referred her to us, and we referred her to the attorney that we recommended. Several weeks after he accepted the case several attorneys approached her and made all kinds of ridiculous assertions of how much money they would get her - they were ambulance chasing. She did not change her mind, and the non chasing attorney worked on this very difficult case for over two years, not accepting quick settlements, and the result was this woman and her young son received over $1,000,000.00, when the ambulance chasers would have worked a quick settlement for $150,000 or $200,000.

 

The point of the above, is yes the Florida attorney is pursuing a case where in my opinion that Celebrity has no liability whatsoever, looking for a quickee settlement and for publicity. But there are also out there very dedicated attorneys who have a personal injury practice who are wholly devoted to serving their clients and victums of injuries, and do so ethically.

[excitedofharpenden]

I've not heard of this guy, but having Googled him I can understand what he is all about. In this particular case a quote from Tom Cruise comes to mind. "Show me the money".:rolleyes:

 

Anyone see the Dan Hanrahan press conference? There was someone giving him a hard time about shore excursions and having been on them, how dangerous he thought they could be. He was asking what Celebrity did to assure themselves that pasengers knew what they were letting themselves in for. Pretty condescending on the guests, I felt and I thought that Dan Hanrahan handled it very well. Travel has its dangers like anything else and the more off the beaten track your excursion is, the greater the danger. Duh!

 

Phil

[cechase]

One more thought. The excursion was a private excursion not booked through Celebrity. Apparently, this Florida attorney is going to have to allege that Celebrity had a "crystal ball" which somehow would have allowed Celebrity staff in advance to know that the bus would be placed into a position to dodge a truck and go over an embankment in order to plead liability on the part of Celebrity. The liability would be premised on the fact that Celebrity had this knowledge in advance, and failed to tell the pax about this future event, before they left the ship.

 

One would hope that the judge hearing the motion for dismissal or motion for summary judgment on behalf of Celebrity has a "laugh meter" in his court, when he throws the case out.

[2ladies]

Maybe Rita Cosby suggested him?

 

It is getting to the stage that we will all be asked to sign disclaimers (is that the right word lawyers?) BEFORE we board!!! Actually, perhaps we do - there is the cruise contract!!! Anyone got good enough eyes to read it?

[Sky Sweet]

Hi Cechase :)

 

I agree with you that most attorneys are very dedicated and ethical, including the ones who specialize in personal injury cases. It is unfortunate that the small minority of disreputable ones often get the most attention in the media.

[vuittonmom]

I am against ambulance chasing, but the tour company and driver bear extreme responsibility in this case and are responsible and should be held responsible. I am probably going to be flamed, but this is not like falling off a bar stool - what a horrible analogy! I am actually appalled that someone would compare this to that. While I agree Celebrity should not be involved, to think that these people, their estates, and their families should have no recourse is unfair. I imagine this is going to be a terrible case to go after, foreign company and all that. While I don't advocate immediately going after an attorney, and am completely against ambulance chasing, these families deserve their day in court for the loss of their loved ones.

[Desertbelle]

I look forward to the day when people start to become accountable for their own actions again. Living a life with that "sledgehammer of possible lawsuit" hanging over my head at every turn is beginning to wear me down.

[excitedofharpenden]

I look forward to the day when people start to become accountable for their own actions again. Living a life with that "sledgehammer of possible lawsuit" hanging over my head at every turn is beginning to wear me down.

Hear, hear although I do take the point of vuittonmom where there must be a duty of care responsibility on someone, in this case the tour company involved and not Celebrity which is clutching at straws in my view. There has been lots of speculation as to what happened. I think we need to sit back and uncover the evidence much like an air accident investigation and then deal with the results.

 

Phil

[vuittonmom]

Someone explain to me what these people did wrong that they are "responsible for their own actions?" They were riding on a bus! They weren't driving - they certainly could not have expected a sleepy drowsy inattentive driver (which is the latest I am hearing). They didn't do anything to cause what happened to them.

 

Granted, Celebrity isn't at fault, I agree.

 

But what in the world is wrong with finding the tour operator and bus driver at fault in such a horrific accident? This clearly was driver error and he should be held responsible. If this were a motor vehicle accident in the U.S., and someone in one of your families were involved and someone either crossed a center line or drove off a cliff, and your family member was simply a passenger, how in the world can someone say it is their fault - simply by being in the vehicle?

[wolfganghowell]

If anyone does try to drag Celebrity into this, it will be thrown out of court before they can turn to page 2 of their brief. X has no liability and no responsibility in this tragic event. It seems to be coming to light that this tour operator was not even licensed. Yes, the company who operated the tour can be sued but most likely there is NOTHING there to get. It's another sad example of knowing exactly what you are purchasing. Whoever booked this excursion did not do their homework of finding out the licensing and background of the tour operator OR the tour operator misled them into believing everything was aboveboard.

 

Charlie - you are very eloquent. I agree with you. My beef is with Rivkind in particular - I've seen enough of him on the Smith case and heard some absolutely vile, twisted, slanderous lies come out of his mouth. Most lawyers would be ashamed to claim him as a representative of the profession.

[STUR]

Hi Everyone !

 

Sadly, I am not surprised at all, that some lawyers will attempt to sue. As we all know, some things in life stink, and one of them is that the world is entirely too litigious. Of course, at times it is warranted, but suing Celebrity for a tour they had nothing to do with ? Please....

 

It annoys me that Celebrity will have to deal with the legal ramifications of this tragic event. I would think they have a good legal team. Assuming everything they have said is true, then I am optimistic they will prevail.

There should be Laws to protect those that are suied

The person that sues anouther and dose not win SHOULD BE RESPONSABLE FOR ALL EXPENCE CAUSED

 

ATURNEYS SHOULD NOT BE ALOUD TO WORK ON CONSINMENT

 

THIS WOULD STOP MOST OF THE LAW SUITS

 

STUR DAYTON,OHIO

[Sky Sweet]

Someone explain to me what these people did wrong that they are "responsible for their own actions?" They were riding on a bus! They weren't driving - they certainly could not have expected a sleepy drowsy inattentive driver (which is the latest I am hearing). They didn't do anything to cause what happened to them.

 

Granted, Celebrity isn't at fault, I agree.

 

But what in the world is wrong with finding the tour operator and bus driver at fault in such a horrific accident? This clearly was driver error and he should be held responsible. If this were a motor vehicle accident in the U.S., and someone in one of your families were involved and someone either crossed a center line or drove off a cliff, and your family member was simply a passenger, how in the world can someone say it is their fault - simply by being in the vehicle?

 

I also think that the tour operator and bus driver were at fault, and would have no problem if they were sued. However, this lawyer probably realizes that you can't get blood from a stone, so he is going after the deep pockets of Celebrity.

[newmexicoNita]

I just read a article in the Miami Herald that Brett Rivkind is already looking into whether Celebrity did enough to warn people about taken shore excursions not associated with them. It was a horrible accident

 

Since when is this the cruiselines job. People will just think that the cruiseline is trying to get them to buy there shore excursions to make money. If people are going to book excursion on their own then it is buyer beware.

 

He said that he was already contacted by a family member who had died. I wonder who contacted who. It makes me wonder what people are think after a loved one is killed. Instead of grieving are they thinking lawsuit. It has been only one day people. Like the Smith's one day after they did not want to talk to the cruiseline where they thinking lawsuit also. I know if that was me that would be the last thing I would be thinking about. Rivkind said he was just focused on see how they purchased there bus tickets.

 

Next he will be after Princess, he sees big money in this becase he gets up to 40% of whatever the client gets. I would not be surprised if he was a the port on April 2nd to hand out his card to passengers. I just do not get it. Are they just jumping on the bandwagon to see how much money they can get. Someone explain this to me please. What are these people thinking.

I would never have thought about anyone talking law suit against Celebrity. What have we come to? A bunch of babies that have to have our hands held with every decision? I know the Princess tragedy is about to bring every ambulance chasing lawyer to the surface. Please, all you honest lawyers don't take my statements personally as I do respect your profession, just not the money hungry lawyers out there. NMNita

[turtlemichael]

On an issue as sensitive and raw as this I hate to take a slightly different point of view, but I will. And I am not trolling.

 

While I can't speak with any detailed knowledge of the legal system in Florida I can say in general terms:

1. If a lawyer is able to prove "negligence" and damage he has a case.

2. He has to prove negligence in the legal sense, not in the popular sense.

3. As clearly there has been incredible damage, a lawyer would be remiss if he did not look at trying to recover for his clients.

 

Calling him an ambulance chaser, an idiot etc serves no purpose as his job is to do the best for his clients. As the American system has established very wide definitions of negligence and as suing is a way of life, no one should be surprised. I am not knocking the US system as others, including my own, are increasingly similar. But that is how it is. We have allowed it to become that way. So there is little point in shouting from the roof tops about a particular case - if you don't like it get the legislators to change the system. That is easy to say but near impossible to do, given its "the system".

 

Whether he wins or not is another question but no one should be surprised if he does.

 

I feel for those who have suffered great loss.

[vuittonmom]

There should be Laws to protect those that are suied

The person that sues anouther and dose not win SHOULD BE RESPONSABLE FOR ALL EXPENCE CAUSED

 

ATURNEYS SHOULD NOT BE ALOUD TO WORK ON CONSINMENT

 

THIS WOULD STOP MOST OF THE LAW SUITS

 

STUR DAYTON,OHIO

 

 

Lawyers do not work on "consinment" - that is what you do if you want to take clothing to a resale shop. It is on contingency, and in some cases is a very real help to people who have valid claims and do not have the money to bring an action on their own. Would you say poor people do not have the right to have their day in court? I see, only the rich are able to get justice? I am 100% against ambulance chasing, and I agree our society has become far too apt to bring lawsuits, even fraudulent lawsuits. This clearly is not one of those situations.

 

As far as checking out tour operators - let's be honest, how many people go to that much trouble - I agree checking to the best of your ability, but I was on the Carnival Glory (2/25 sailing). One of our passengers, on a Carnival sponsored tour, drowned and because they were too far away to get help quickly, she was unable to be saved and died. This was a ship sponsored tour. Is she at fault as well? Clearly, Carnival wasn't - this was a tragic accident and to my knowledge her family is not suing - despite the fact that they did not have anyone along with the tour that knew CPR and were able to help her - despite the water-related activity.

 

This bus accident is an entirely different matter. I have read these threads and honestly feel a little sick to my stomach. I hope family members are not reading these unfriendly ramblings basically saying these people brought this on themselves and deserved what they got. Even ship sponsored tours can have something bad happen. Tender operators are not owned by the cruise lines - they are local operators paid by the lines. If they are not careful, since it is ship sponsored, is it our fault for riding in their boats? Was it the passenger on my sailing's fault she got caught in a current and drowned? These people do not bear the responsibility for what happened. They were victims, in every sense of the word. Perhaps, like others of us who do non-ship sponsored tours - and if you go on these boards, you will find many, many people do - especially seasoned travelers- as these people were, they may have had wonderful word of mouth about this tour group. I don't know how easy it would be for elderly people, not necessarily internet versed to be able to check into licensures, owner's history, etc. Of course, given their traveling history - sounds like they had done a lot. I doubt if they just jumped on picked a name out of a hat and said - Oh - hey - don't know anything at all about this one - but let's pick it!" For goodness sakes people, this blaming the victim mentality - I thought this went out several decades ago. Of course, we bear responsibility for our own actions, but I'm sure they went into this thinking they would be safe - and they should have been safe. Perhaps it is blindness to think about the basic goodness of people, and perhaps they are guilty of that - and some ignorance. But they weren't in the jungle - it was mountainous, but they had every expectation that people who drove these roads often, and for a living, would be able to do so safely.

 

I am disturbed and saddened by the tone of some of the posts in this thread and deeply hope that family members' grief is not added to by the insensitivity of people who want to blame these poor elderly people for their own deaths.

[Desertbelle]

Perhaps this is a very unpopular point of view, and I can deal with the flames that will be thrown my way, but why must someone be blamed? Why any law suit at all?

 

Accidents happen. Unless this driver or excursion company set out to maliciously harm or kill these people, or forced them to proceed on this tour against their will, what did this company do wrong?

 

Do you really think this driver fell asleep on purpose? He could easily have been killed himself...and he will live the rest of his life knowing his part of it. Was the vehicle unsafe to ride in? I hardly think so since it was a brand new Mercedes van. Were the people being taken somewhere they didn't want to go or against their will? Doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Suing won't bring these people back. Probably won't prevent accidents like this from happening again and again. Though I am sure these people didn't choose to die in this manner or at this time, they were doing what they wanted to do. Cruising, traveling the world, enjoying what little part of their life they had left. I can think of worse ways to spend my last days on this Earth.

 

Life is deadly...not a one of us will be let off the hook. How and when we die is the mystery, but death is inevitable.....and it's completely out of our hands!!

[newmexicoNita]

Lawyers do not work on "consinment" - that is what you do if you want to take clothing to a resale shop. It is on contingency, and in some cases is a very real help to people who have valid claims and do not have the money to bring an action on their own. Would you say poor people do not have the right to have their day in court? I see, only the rich are able to get justice? I am 100% against ambulance chasing, and I agree our society has become far too apt to bring lawsuits, even fraudulent lawsuits. This clearly is not one of those situations.

 

As far as checking out tour operators - let's be honest, how many people go to that much trouble - I agree checking to the best of your ability, but I was on the Carnival Glory (2/25 sailing). One of our passengers, on a Carnival sponsored tour, drowned and because they were too far away to get help quickly, she was unable to be saved and died. This was a ship sponsored tour. Is she at fault as well? Clearly, Carnival wasn't - this was a tragic accident and to my knowledge her family is not suing - despite the fact that they did not have anyone along with the tour that knew CPR and were able to help her - despite the water-related activity.

 

This bus accident is an entirely different matter. I have read these threads and honestly feel a little sick to my stomach. I hope family members are not reading these unfriendly ramblings basically saying these people brought this on themselves and deserved what they got. Even ship sponsored tours can have something bad happen. Tender operators are not owned by the cruise lines - they are local operators paid by the lines. If they are not careful, since it is ship sponsored, is it our fault for riding in their boats? Was it the passenger on my sailing's fault she got caught in a current and drowned? These people do not bear the responsibility for what happened. They were victims, in every sense of the word. Perhaps, like others of us who do non-ship sponsored tours - and if you go on these boards, you will find many, many people do - especially seasoned travelers- as these people were, they may have had wonderful word of mouth about this tour group. I don't know how easy it would be for elderly people, not necessarily internet versed to be able to check into licensures, owner's history, etc. Of course, given their traveling history - sounds like they had done a lot. I doubt if they just jumped on picked a name out of a hat and said - Oh - hey - don't know anything at all about this one - but let's pick it!" For goodness sakes people, this blaming the victim mentality - I thought this went out several decades ago. Of course, we bear responsibility for our own actions, but I'm sure they went into this thinking they would be safe - and they should have been safe. Perhaps it is blindness to think about the basic goodness of people, and perhaps they are guilty of that - and some ignorance. But they weren't in the jungle - it was mountainous, but they had every expectation that people who drove these roads often, and for a living, would be able to do so safely.

 

I am disturbed and saddened by the tone of some of the posts in this thread and deeply hope that family members' grief is not added to by the insensitivity of people who want to blame these poor elderly people for their own deaths.

you are totally off base here: I don't think anyone is blaming those who died; what we are saying is: 1-the lawyers are jumping out of the wall or at least 1 is, to put blame anywhere it can be put. Of course it isn't the fault of those who died except possibly not checking. I too, book through private companies, but would not expect, if an accident occured to have my family go after the cruise line. The other day my son was golfing. An accident occured next to the golf course. He and my SIL ran to aid the injured. My son dragged the passenger out of the car, he held her til the police and ambulance arrived and kept talking to her. Little did he realize she was dead. According to the papers her husband ran a red light and was hit broadside. I certainly hope the family doesn't decide to sue the truck that hit them, but who knows. There are times when law suits are needed but too many times someone decides we are not responsible for our own choices. NMnita

[wolfganghowell]

Tone is very hard to read in a post. I don't think anyone feels these people are to blame in any way. My heart breaks for them and their families and I hope that if negligence is indeed found any monetary compensation the families receive will assist them in a positive way. Driving in mountains is treacherous and this could have happened even on a ship sponsored tour. What I think many people object to is the immediate reaction of this lawyer in particular - or any others who jointhe bandwagon - to attack the cruise line. It's obvious that they have deep pockets and it is natural to want to find blame someone in the first sting of grief. But X is blameless on this. I think in a way we are putting the cart before the horse - no US court could possibly allow this to go to trial - X is covered completely. It's just astonishing how Rivkind or any other maritime attorneys would actually promote X as being involved. That is what is wrong - but they have no real recourse because once the media latches on, the damage is done.

 

I don't believe anyone is trying to be insensitive to this tragedy other than some parts of the legal and media communities who will use to to exploit the families grief. It is a sad reminder of "there but for the grace of God go I."

[vuittonmom]

I look forward to the day when people start to become accountable for their own actions again.

 

It's one thing to say "why need to sue," and another to state the quote above - "accountable for their own actions again." That comment spoke volumes.

 

I wonder how you would feel if it was your child, or your mom, or your wife (and she looks very pretty). Would you be so magnanimous then? It is pretty easy to sit on a high horse, blame the victims and act as if it's all fate - this wasn't fate. While it was an accident, it was an accident that should not have happened and caused the deaths of 12 people! This is not forgetting to pay for an apple when you leave the store. Let me see, if someone is driving drunk (and we don't know whether this driver was under the influence, time will tell), and they kill someone - do we not do anything because the "poor fellow didn't mean to hurt anyone???"

 

Let's let the truly responsible person take the blame. And don't in any way tell me that he will have to live with this - although he will - he is alive. His family members have him - children, grandchildren - whatever. He still breathes, feels, laughs, cries - this has been taken from all these people and their families because of his negligence. That is not nothing - it is not "fate," and it should not go unpunished. I don't pretend to know what the punishment should be - I hope if he was under the influence in any way, the punishment will be criminal as well as civil. But for all of us, as drivers, we bear the responsibility every time we get behind the wheel. When we take a passenger, any passenger, we are ethically and morally responsible for their safety - every time.

 

I agree it's hard to read tone in posts - but if you go back and read some of these, and put yourselves in the position of a loved one who lost a family member - just go back - read them in that light, and see how you would feel. I don't have much respect for the attorney mentioned, and clearly X is not at fault and should not be involved in any lawsuit - that is very obvious. But this is not fate, it's not something you just sit back and go "oh well . . . too bad."

 

I still look at your comment above, and I cringe - and hope that none of the victims' family members read it. It made me very sad.

[ECCruise]

Life is deadly...not a one of us will be let off the hook. How and when we die is the mystery, but death is inevitable.....and it's completely out of our hands!!

 

Here is where you make a huge mistake. When someone's death, or injury, is due to the negligence or intention of another, it is NOT out of our hands. It is the direct fault of someone else. I assume that if were proven that the brakes were bad on this van (and the operator knew it) or that the driver had previous driving issues (and the operator knew it) and your loved ones lost their lives here you would just shrug and say, "Oh well, that's just the way it is. No problem."

 

I think not.

 

That is why there are courts and judges and juries. To sort out what is real and what is not. To determine who is deserving and who is not. As an earlier poster said, if you don't like the American judicial system, change it (and hope you never need it) or move. There are plenty of countries that view judicial procedures differently.

[vuittonmom]

So if I get faced at the local.

Fall off the barstool and get hurt - I have a case?

 

These are the kind of posts that make me hope there are no families reading these. How can someone compare this to what happened to these people. Would you say this if it was your mom and dad?

 

I just feel so sad.

[izodlacoste]

I think that you are all wrong to jump the gun and slander this attorney at this time. He has not filed suit and it is the right thing for him to investigate the situation to see if the families have a case or not. He is not a politician and to just rag him for something you know nothing about is just plain ugly.

 

He helps a lot of people and while some cases may seem wrong to you, it is up to the judge and jury to decide. Lawyers like him help many crew members and passengers who are injured due to the negligence of the cruise lines. The cruise lines have so little regulation as it is, if it were not for lawyers like him, they would be able to get away with so much more. I love to cruise, but I love to cruise safely. He has represented many passengers who were assaulted, etc and had he not, more of it would be allowed to go on.

[Patrick IL.]

This is such a painful situation. We have done exchursions with Ship sponsored tours, both X and NCL and also privately. I know with the ship sponsored tours we signed wavers left and right, I do not rememeber doing that with the private contractor. We all have been on the small busses, either ship sponsored or private. I fail to see responibility on X's part here, as thier CEO said, we can not control or tell passangers what they can or can not do on shore exchursions, its thier time. This is a such terrible accident, I pray for all the families involved.

[vuittonmom]

I don't think anyone is saying it is X's fault - everyone seems to agree that it isn't.

 

What bothers me at the people who are blaming the people who died.

[hermang]

Someone explain to me what these people did wrong that they are "responsible for their own actions?" They were riding on a bus! They weren't driving - they certainly could not have expected a sleepy drowsy inattentive driver (which is the latest I am hearing). They didn't do anything to cause what happened to them.

 

Granted, Celebrity isn't at fault, I agree.

 

But what in the world is wrong with finding the tour operator and bus driver at fault in such a horrific accident? This clearly was driver error and he should be held responsible. If this were a motor vehicle accident in the U.S., and someone in one of your families were involved and someone either crossed a center line or drove off a cliff, and your family member was simply a passenger, how in the world can someone say it is their fault - simply by being in the vehicle?

1. The tour company is based in Chile - Celebrity is in Florida

2. The tour company has no money or little and probably has very little liability Insurance so no big settlement.

3. You would have to hire a Chilean attorney and bring suit down there

 

Two guesses as to where our friendly sleezeball lawyer would prefer to bring suit especially since he is admitted to the Forida bar