Dawn passengers left “stranded” on African island

[dexddd]

15 hours ago, Sugar Magnolia said:

 

The Gentlemen Hosts are still sailing on Silversea 😁

 

 

This is all the more reason that the passengers on this particular special cruise should have known that taking a private excursion on a less traveled island, with an operator who might be unfamiliar or unconcerned with the rules, was a riskier move than taking a private excursion in Nassau. The passengers knowingly took the risk. NCL and other cruise lines make it abundantly clear what happens in such circumstances...extenuating or not.

 

What do they call them??  Seagigilos?

[ggTexasGal]

Several people have made statements that NCL will pay to get them to the next port if the Shore Excursion was booked with NCL.

I used to believe that to be true, however, I've been researching the NCL website to locate just where any of us might find that information.  What I found is quite contrary to that...

 

https://www.ncl.com/faq#!#shorex-terms-conditions    However, scroll to the bottom and note:

 Important Information NCL makes arrangements for Guests for Shore Excursions solely for the convenience of the Guest; NCL does not act on behalf of or supervise the parties or persons who own, furnish, or operate such excursions, and the same are provided by independent contractors. NCL assumes no responsibility for, nor guarantees the performance of, any such excursion provider, and Guests acknowledge that NCL shall not be liable for losses or injuries arising from the acts or omissions of such provider.

 

Also see: 

https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket Contract_US_EN_02_2023.pdf

 

page 10, Independent Contractor, (a) (bottom of that page)

9. Independent Contractors: (a) Off-Vessel Transport and Activities: The Guest recognizes and agrees that, if and when the Carrier makes arrangements for the Guest for air transportation, hotel accommodations, ground transfers, shore excursions, medical care and/or for other transportation, activities, services, facilities or amusements occurring off of the vessel, the Carrier does so solely for the convenience of the Guest, the Carrier does not act on behalf of or supervise the parties or persons who own, furnish, or operate such conveyances, services or facilities, and the same are provided by independent contractors who work directly for the Guest and Guest is subject to such terms, if any, appearing in the tickets, vouchers or notices of such party or parties. Therefore, the Guest agrees that the Carrier assumes no responsibility for, nor guarantees the performance of, any such person, party, contractor, service or facility, and that the Carrier shall not be liable for losses or injuries arising from the acts or omissions of such person, party, contractor, service or facility.

 

[WonderMan3]

8 hours ago, Ashlynkat said:

I am currently on this cruise and while I don’t know any detail about the 80 year old woman who apparently got injured on an NCL tour. From our balcony, I did see a few tenders running slightly past our 3:30pm all aboard time. (3pm was technically the last tender and it was ~15-20 minute journey from dock to ship)

 

In hindsight, one was apparently carrying their passports and it was a little after 4pm (our scheduled departure time) before it seemed like they had all the tender boats reloaded with floating gangway and everything else put away. 

Didn’t see the coast guard vessel (or at least something I recognized as a coast guard vessel). I don’t remember the exact time we pulled away but it was definitely later than 4pm but not too much later. Maybe 4:15?  
 

Compared to Abidjan, Ivory Coast (our next port after São Tomé), traffic on São Tomé was a breeze so that wouldn’t have held them up. It’s a small island so getting to and from the port wasn’t that difficult. I think the theories about the tour operator operating on “island time” and not taking seriously the all aboard deadline is likely true. 
 

Unfortunately we just found out yesterday that our stop in Banjul, Gambia is canceled because of adverse tidal conditions at the port. So this group will need to find a way to Dakar, Senegal to meet back up.
 

Dreadful situation and while many folks on this cruise have done private tours with no issues getting back to the ship, this definitely highlights the risks of booking those tours in new ports that aren’t use to cruise ship operations! 

Yikes. The article says they were supposed to be flying to Gambia today. If they did, they're going to now have to fly on to Senegal. What a mess.

[dexddd]

46 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

You do realize that a harbor pilot had a 1 in 20 percent of dying every time he boards a ship? Very highly paid job, but extremely dangerous. 

You must have read same article I saw last week.  I don't believe it. Been on more than twenty cruises and watched many on and offs, some in big swells.  Dangerous, yes, but have not seen one fall.

[WonderMan3]

2 minutes ago, ggTexasGal said:

Several people have made statements that NCL will pay to get them to the next port if the Shore Excursion was booked with NCL.

I used to believe that to be true, however, I've been researching the NCL website to locate just where any of us might find that information.  What I found is quite contrary to that...

 

https://www.ncl.com/faq#!#shorex-terms-conditions    However, scroll to the bottom and note:

 Important Information NCL makes arrangements for Guests for Shore Excursions solely for the convenience of the Guest; NCL does not act on behalf of or supervise the parties or persons who own, furnish, or operate such excursions, and the same are provided by independent contractors. NCL assumes no responsibility for, nor guarantees the performance of, any such excursion provider, and Guests acknowledge that NCL shall not be liable for losses or injuries arising from the acts or omissions of such provider.

 

Also see: 

https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket Contract_US_EN_02_2023.pdf

 

page 10, Independent Contractor, (a) (bottom of that page)

9. Independent Contractors: (a) Off-Vessel Transport and Activities: The Guest recognizes and agrees that, if and when the Carrier makes arrangements for the Guest for air transportation, hotel accommodations, ground transfers, shore excursions, medical care and/or for other transportation, activities, services, facilities or amusements occurring off of the vessel, the Carrier does so solely for the convenience of the Guest, the Carrier does not act on behalf of or supervise the parties or persons who own, furnish, or operate such conveyances, services or facilities, and the same are provided by independent contractors who work directly for the Guest and Guest is subject to such terms, if any, appearing in the tickets, vouchers or notices of such party or parties. Therefore, the Guest agrees that the Carrier assumes no responsibility for, nor guarantees the performance of, any such person, party, contractor, service or facility, and that the Carrier shall not be liable for losses or injuries arising from the acts or omissions of such person, party, contractor, service or facility.

 

I suppose terms and conditions can get the cruise line out of pretty much anything but anytime I've heard of a story where a cruise line sponsored excursion has had delays to the point where passengers missed the ship then the cruise line covered the expenses to get passengers back to the ship at the next port or to the debark port depending on the itinerary.

[WonderMan3]

5 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

She was not “dumped”. Her medical condition, whatever it was, could not be safely treated on board. And for HER safety and wellbeing, she was medically evacuated to a shore side medical facility. At that point, her travel insurance needs to handle her transport. 

Sounds like she's the only one in this group of passengers whose insurance will actually cover her transport back to the ship or home.

[WonderMan3]

1 hour ago, MrsTocko said:

For all of those that are saying they should have been allowed to board...look at it another way.  you go to a store named NCL Dawn.  It is now 5pm, and you have just arrived. Store closed at 4pm (all aboard time), but the employees of store are still there doing closing procedures (still in harbor). Should they reopen for you? or should they tell you to comeback when they are open again (next port)?  NCL Dawn was there and open for you until closing time. You got there late. whether it was traffic delay, or poor time management, it is not the store's responsibility at this point.

That's actually a poor analogy as an employee could easily open a door and let someone into the store. Someone further up the thread outlined exactly why the passengers could not easily transfer back to the ship to board; it was an extreme safety issue with the risk of injury or death to a passenger if they were to fall while transiting from the port boat back to the ship.

[PATRLR]

15 minutes ago, julig22 said:

I would be shocked to learn that the CG actually got involved at all. Anything is possible I suppose but I have my doubts LOL.

Fair point.  If we were talking a well developed western country, I might be less inclined to believe a CG got involved.  Considering where this happened, I envision the CG consisting of exactly 1 boat, the captain of which is also the overall commander of the CG and able to make such decisions to get involved and eager to help (and maybe looking for any excuse to actually do something with his boat and crew). 

[mjkacmom]

12 minutes ago, dexddd said:

You must have read same article I saw last week.  I don't believe it. Been on more than twenty cruises and watched many on and offs, some in big swells.  Dangerous, yes, but have not seen one fall.

The one article? There are tons. Just because you haven’t seen one of the 3 - 4 deaths a year doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. I think I first heard about the dangers while watching Below Deck, but a quick google works as well.

[PATRLR]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

You do realize that a harbor pilot had a 1 in 20 percent of dying every time he boards a ship? Very highly paid job, but extremely dangerous. 

I don't suppose you have a source for this claim?  I'm pretty sure you don't and I doubt it's even remotely close to true. 

If it were true, then that would mean 1 out of every 20 ship boardings would result in a death. Even if you meant to say 1/20th or 1%, that would still be 1 out of every 2000 boardings resulted in death.

I'd be surprised if anyone on these boards has ever heard of a pilot dying while boarding a ship they were a passenger on.  Probably 100s of thousands of pilot boardings - anyone ever hear of a pilot dying while boarding?

[www3traveler]

14 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

I suppose terms and conditions can get the cruise line out of pretty much anything but anytime I've heard of a story where a cruise line sponsored excursion has had delays to the point where passengers missed the ship then the cruise line covered the expenses to get passengers back to the ship at the next port or to the debark port depending on the itinerary.

Remember that this was NOT an NCL sponsored shore excursion. 

[luv2kroooz]

1 hour ago, MrsTocko said:

For all of those that are saying they should have been allowed to board...look at it another way.  you go to a store named NCL Dawn.  It is now 5pm, and you have just arrived. Store closed at 4pm (all aboard time), but the employees of store are still there doing closing procedures (still in harbor). Should they reopen for you? or should they tell you to comeback when they are open again (next port)?  NCL Dawn was there and open for you until closing time. You got there late. whether it was traffic delay, or poor time management, it is not the store's responsibility at this point.

A smart, service minded business man would open the store. It would increase profitability and build good will with his customer base who may have been in an unfortunate bind. If you just tell them to go away and come back tomorrow, they might just go to a competitor today and never come back tomorrow. Then, they'll tell all their friends about your terrible customer service. So, while you were technically correct in denying them service, you may have harmed yourself in the long term.How wise was your decision in the end?

 

 

[www3traveler]

17 minutes ago, dexddd said:

You must have read same article I saw last week.  I don't believe it. Been on more than twenty cruises and watched many on and offs, some in big swells.  Dangerous, yes, but have not seen one fall.

You have never sailed out of Astoria, Oregon (across the Columbia River Bar-- one of the most dangerous places in the world). Bar (or Harbor) are among the most dangerous jobs in the world.  

[WonderMan3]

2 minutes ago, www3traveler said:

Remember that this was NOT an NCL sponsored shore excursion. 

Where did I say that it was? I was responding to a comment talking about NCL sponsored excursions not guaranteeing transportation coverage to get you to the next port if you miss the boat because of language in their T&Cs.

[MrsTocko]

12 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

That's actually a poor analogy as an employee could easily open a door and let someone into the store. Someone further up the thread outlined exactly why the passengers could not easily transfer back to the ship to board; it was an extreme safety issue with the risk of injury or death to a passenger if they were to fall while transiting from the port boat back to the ship.

Please tell me the store that the employees will open back up an hour after close so I can do my shopping, because I couldn’t get there before closing.  

[WonderMan3]

Just now, MrsTocko said:

Please tell me the store that the employees will open back up an hour after close so I can do my shopping, because I couldn’t get there before closing.  

You're missing the point. Regardless of whether stores normally open for someone after closing (and they occasionally do as I've had it done for me at least once in the past...), that action does not put the customer in danger with risk of injury or death as this transfer at sea apparently would have.

[puppycanducruise]

16 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

That's actually a poor analogy as an employee could easily open a door and let someone into the store. Someone further up the thread outlined exactly why the passengers could not easily transfer back to the ship to board; it was an extreme safety issue with the risk of injury or death to a passenger if they were to fall while transiting from the port boat back to the ship.

Not necessarily that easy for an employee to open a door and let someone in.  By  then, the cash could be locked up in the safe.  Most of the employees would have gone home so letting someone into the store is NOT a good idea.

[WonderMan3]

1 minute ago, puppycanducruise said:

Not necessarily that easy for an employee to open a door and let someone in.  By  then, the cash could be locked up in the safe.  Most of the employees would have gone home so letting someone into the store is NOT a good idea.

Missing the point...Not going to repeat myself again. Just read through the thread.

[PATRLR]

4 minutes ago, MrsTocko said:

Please tell me the store that the employees will open back up an hour after close so I can do my shopping, because I couldn’t get there before closing.  

Well, my uncle's small grocery store and butcher shop would do it if he was there.  Heck, he was even known to drive back to the store to help someone out if they desperately needed something.  But my uncle's store and NCL are two very different things which is exactly why it's a poor analogy.  

[icft]

1 minute ago, MrsTocko said:

Please tell me the store that the employees will open back up an hour after close so I can do my shopping, because I couldn’t get there before closing.  

Unless things have changed drastically, last folks I knew that worked retail started closing out the registers as soon as the door closed. Perhaps a one man company would do it though.

[MrsTocko]

4 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

You're missing the point. Regardless of whether stores normally open for someone after closing (and they occasionally do as I've had it done for me at least once in the past...), that action does not put the customer in danger with risk of injury or death as this transfer at sea apparently would have.

My point was that many are missing the point about the dangers of allowing them on board, which I stated myself earlier, so tried to simplify it for them.  

[MrsTocko]

1 minute ago, icft said:

Unless things have changed drastically, last folks I knew that worked retail started closing out the registers as soon as the door closed. Perhaps a one man company would do it though.

Thank you, my point was understood

[MrsTocko]

14 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

A smart, service minded business man would open the store. It would increase profitability and build good will with his customer base who may have been in an unfortunate bind. If you just tell them to go away and come back tomorrow, they might just go to a competitor today and never come back tomorrow. Then, they'll tell all their friends about your terrible customer service. So, while you were technically correct in denying them service, you may have harmed yourself in the long term.How wise was your decision in the end?

 

 

Will their revenue generated offset the additional wages of the employees staying late? Have to redo closing procedures? Other additional overhead? Employee relationships with company? Is it unionized? How is that impacted? And how many more times will I have to do it, because it was done the one time? It isn’t just a matter of unlocking the door and ushering them in.  

[icft]

10 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

You're missing the point. Regardless of whether stores normally open for someone after closing (and they occasionally do as I've had it done for me at least once in the past...), that action does not put the customer in danger with risk of injury or death as this transfer at sea apparently would have.

 

7 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

Missing the point...Not going to repeat myself again. Just read through the thread.

Calm down my man. No need to stroke out. I think everyone got you point and they have moved on to another point that also supports the position of NCL not being the bad guy. Folks accepting your point and not arguing about it is a good thing...

[luv2kroooz]

1 minute ago, MrsTocko said:

Will their revenue generated offset the additional wages of the employees staying late? Have to redo closing procedures? Other additional overhead? Employee relationships with company? Is it unionized? How is that impacted? And how many more times will I have to do it, because it was done the one time?

I have no idea. It was your hypothetical, so it can be whatever you want it be.