Left Right Center Forbidden

[Butterbean1000]

17 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

No, it isn't.

 

Bingo is gambling.

Carnival runs Bingo outside the casino.

I bet they claim that Bingo is sanctioned gambling by the cruise line. 

[tidecat]

1 hour ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I bet they claim that Bingo is sanctioned gambling by the cruise line. 

Saying something like "gambling is allowed only in the casino or on games sanctioned by the ship" would have been a better way to word it. Because I doubt they'd let people play games like LRC for money even if they were playing in the casino without it being run by the casino department.

 

Princess ran with the concept of the whole ship being a casino by having games that can be played onboard the ship on your device. Even the Princess Prizes feature only works when the casino is open.

[geckoaz]

Play for ducks not bucks.

[cmichael1221]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:19 AM, lesters said:

I read about this on his page. We’ve played this game with my in-laws for years - using the game pieces it comes with. You don’t need to play with real money.  How anyone thought playing with real money with strangers in the lido was an acceptable idea is beyond me.   Why not just start up a poker game then?!

 

This is exactly why I don't understand why people are mad about the group "only playing for $1" or whatever the amount was...  How does Carnival say that is okay, but then tell another group that wants to play for $10 or $100 that their amount is not okay?  Or tell someone who wants to play poker/blackjack/Pai Gao/craps/etc. that their dice/card game for money isn't okay, but the group next to them playing Left Right Center for money can continue doing what they're doing...  This is one of those that needs to be all or nothing and should be enforced as such.

[WhiteOptima]

On 4/18/2024 at 9:52 AM, ninjacat123 said:

And there are areas outside of Lido (like where trivia is played) that have tables.

That is where we go.  Ocean Plaza area.  If we play in Lido we move out when buffet is open

[StephPS79]

On 4/20/2024 at 2:51 PM, cmichael1221 said:

This is exactly why I don't understand why people are mad about the group "only playing for $1" or whatever the amount was...  How does Carnival say that is okay, but then tell another group that wants to play for $10 or $100 that their amount is not okay?  Or tell someone who wants to play poker/blackjack/Pai Gao/craps/etc. that their dice/card game for money isn't okay, but the group next to them playing Left Right Center for money can continue doing what they're doing...  This is one of those that needs to be all or nothing and should be enforced as such.

 

Fixed.  

[aborgman]

11 hours ago, StephPS79 said:

 

Fixed.  

 

 

"We ban all gambling not run by us - but to think it's about money is silly"

 

I mean - really? To claim the ban on non-casino gambling has nothing to do with money is maybe the most transparent lie I've ever seen a PR shill make in public.

[mz-s]

4 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

 

"We ban all gambling not run by us - but to think it's about money is silly"

 

I mean - really? To claim the ban on non-casino gambling has nothing to do with money is maybe the most transparent lie I've ever seen a PR shill make in public.

 

Post #7

 

Whether or not you believe it is another matter. It's not because the money spent at LRC is money that Carnival won't see in the casino. Carnival captures plenty of spend these days, and more all the time thanks to proprietary ports like the upcoming Celebration Key.

[aborgman]

49 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Post #7

 

Whether or not you believe it is another matter. It's not because the money spent at LRC is money that Carnival won't see in the casino. Carnival captures plenty of spend these days, and more all the time thanks to proprietary ports like the upcoming Celebration Key.

Most Carnival ships are flagged in Panama (because money) - which means in international waters, they are regulated under Panamanian gambling laws (because money)... and Panamanian gambling laws are so minimal as to be almost non-existent(because money).

 

...and very, very few countries gambling laws prohibit private games with no rake.

 

"Loot boxes, skin gambling, fantasy sports betting and social gambling are not regulated in Panama."

Edited April 22 by aborgman

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

Most Carnival ships are flagged in Panama (because money) - which means in international waters, they are regulated under Panamanian gambling laws (because money)... and Panamanian gambling laws are so minimal as to be almost non-existent(because money).

 

...and very, very few countries gambling laws prohibit private games with no rake.

 

"Loot boxes, skin gambling, fantasy sports betting and social gambling are not regulated in Panama."

 

Carnival regulates their onboard gambling under the CLIA. You may notice the CLIA emblem on slot machines onboard.

[aborgman]

34 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Carnival regulates their onboard gambling under the CLIA. You may notice the CLIA emblem on slot machines onboard.

 

CLIA policy isn't law or regulation, and is basically one page long and in no way addresses any of this.

 

 

 

 

[StephPS79]

25 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

CLIA policy isn't law or regulation, and is basically one page long and in no way addresses any of this.

 

 

While CLIA isn't law, you don't think there is any contract in place that members of CLIA have to adhere?  Every line under CLIA has regulations.  CLIA policy states that they follow Nevada gaming rules and regulations, so there is a lot more than one page.

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

 

  CLIA policy states that they follow Nevada gaming rules and regulations, so there is a lot more than one page.

 

No, it doesn't.

 

It states all gaming MACHINES must meet the regulatory standards of the Nevada Gaming Control Board or other licensed jurisdiction for payback and internal software.

 

This is the entirety of the CLIA rules:

 

 

All equipment purchased and installed on cruise vessels will meet the regulatory standards of the Nevada Gaming Control Board or other licensed jurisdiction for payback and internal software.

 

RULES OF PLAY

Each line will provide a gaming guide setting forth the rules of play for their casino. These rules of play shall generally follow those established for casinos in Nevada, New Jersey, or England. These house rules will also be made available in every casino.

Each member line will post at every gaming table minimum and maximum betting limits for each game.

Only adults are allowed to play the slots or the tables.

 

INTERNAL CONTROLS

All shipboard gambling operations will be inspected by each member line's internal audit department on a regular basis, not to exceed 12 months.

All casinos will have detailed internal control procedures concerning the cash and coin counts, casino cage procedures and other processes, similar to licensed jurisdictions.

Each line will employ some form of surveillance to assure operations are fair and equitable for all parties.

Each line will separate the operation of the casino from the financial aspects of the casino as clearly as possible including specific duties for cashiers and table gaming staff.

 

CUSTOMER SERVICE

The onboard casino operations will be the overall responsibility of the Hotel Manager or Director, who is charged with ensuring the highest standard of conduct for casino staff.

In case of a gaming dispute, any passenger who feels he or she has an issue that cannot be resolved by the Casino Manager should bring it up to the Hotel Manager, and every effort will be made to resolve the problem. If the issue is not resolved on board the vessel, each ship will have at the casino cage a current list of contact information for their home office or casino operator where the passenger can pursue their dispute.

The cruise vessel will have onboard comment cards for the inclusion of any comment, concern, or means to improve the gambling system on board the vessel.

Gambling is strictly for the enjoyment of the passengers who choose to avail themselves of this form of entertainment.

 

WEBSITE

CLIA recommends to its member companies that these guidelines be posted on each company's website.

[StephPS79]

1 minute ago, aborgman said:

 

No, it doesn't.

 

It states all gaming MACHINES must meet the regulatory standards of the Nevada Gaming Control Board or other licensed jurisdiction for payback and internal software.

 

This is the entirety of the CLIA rules:

 

 

All equipment purchased and installed on cruise vessels will meet the regulatory standards of the Nevada Gaming Control Board or other licensed jurisdiction for payback and internal software.

 

RULES OF PLAY

Each line will provide a gaming guide setting forth the rules of play for their casino. These rules of play shall generally follow those established for casinos in Nevada, New Jersey, or England. These house rules will also be made available in every casino.

Each member line will post at every gaming table minimum and maximum betting limits for each game.

Only adults are allowed to play the slots or the tables.

 

INTERNAL CONTROLS

All shipboard gambling operations will be inspected by each member line's internal audit department on a regular basis, not to exceed 12 months.

All casinos will have detailed internal control procedures concerning the cash and coin counts, casino cage procedures and other processes, similar to licensed jurisdictions.

Each line will employ some form of surveillance to assure operations are fair and equitable for all parties.

Each line will separate the operation of the casino from the financial aspects of the casino as clearly as possible including specific duties for cashiers and table gaming staff.

 

CUSTOMER SERVICE

The onboard casino operations will be the overall responsibility of the Hotel Manager or Director, who is charged with ensuring the highest standard of conduct for casino staff.

In case of a gaming dispute, any passenger who feels he or she has an issue that cannot be resolved by the Casino Manager should bring it up to the Hotel Manager, and every effort will be made to resolve the problem. If the issue is not resolved on board the vessel, each ship will have at the casino cage a current list of contact information for their home office or casino operator where the passenger can pursue their dispute.

The cruise vessel will have onboard comment cards for the inclusion of any comment, concern, or means to improve the gambling system on board the vessel.

Gambling is strictly for the enjoyment of the passengers who choose to avail themselves of this form of entertainment.

 

WEBSITE

CLIA recommends to its member companies that these guidelines be posted on each company's website.

 

Okay, when you get confirmation that they are under other licensed jurisdiction for payback and internal software, let me now.

[aborgman]

5 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

 

Okay, when you get confirmation that they are under other licensed jurisdiction for payback and internal software, let me now.

 

I can confirm that Cruise Line DO NOT following Nevada Gaming board regulations for payout with slot machines.

 

They are significantly lower payout percentage than would be legal in Nevada.

 

90%+ payout percentages in Nevada, around 80% payout percentages on Carnival.

Edited April 22 by aborgman

[StephPS79]

Just now, aborgman said:

 

I can confirm that Cruise Line DO NOT following Nevada Gaming board regulations for payout with slot machines.

 

They are significantly lower payout percentage than would be legal in Nevada.

 

What is your source of confirmation?

[StephPS79]

2 minutes ago, aborgman said:

90%+ payout percentages in Nevada, around 80% payout percentages on Carnival.

 

Can you please reference where you have found confirmation of 80% payout percentages?

[aborgman]

5 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

 

What is your source of confirmation?

 

1) The Nevada Gaming Control Board

2) Screenshots of the payout settings on a Carnival slot machine showing 5-10% lower RTP than land based casinos

3) Numerous interviews with Carnival Casino staff claiming that RTP is around 80-85% depending on bet.

 

 

[mz-s]

55 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

CLIA policy isn't law or regulation, and is basically one page long and in no way addresses any of this.

 

Please explain how a rogue game of LRC could adhere to the "internal controls" section of the CLIA document you provided in post #88. Come to think of it, how could a rogue game of LRC adhere to any of the sections?

[StephPS79]

sourced

Edited April 22 by StephPS79

[StephPS79]

25 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

1) The Nevada Gaming Control Board

2) Screenshots of the payout settings on a Carnival slot machine showing 5-10% lower RTP than land based casinos

3) Numerous interviews with Carnival Casino staff claiming that RTP is around 80-85% depending on bet.

 

 

 

Per the Nevada Gaming Control Board:

 

14.040 Minimum standards for gaming devices. 1. All gaming devices must: (a) Theoretically pay out a mathematically demonstrable percentage of all amounts wagered, which must not be less than 75 percent for each wager available for play on the device.

 

While most locations and machines report higher percentages, the 80-85% you are reporting on behalf of Carnival would still fall within the Nevada Gaming Regulations.

 

The screen shot shows the pay table for one single machine, this is not a comprehensive sample size of the casino.  Regardless, this is still within gaming rules for Nevada.

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, mz-s said:

 

Please explain how a rogue game of LRC could adhere to the "internal controls" section of the CLIA document you provided in post #88. Come to think of it, how could a rogue game of LRC adhere to any of the sections?

 

It wouldn't need to - because those limitations are on the gaming run by the cruise line, not the (legal under Panama law) "personal gambling".

 

The regulations of the CLIA apply to the cruise line not the passengers, and there is no regulation requiring them to prohibit personal gambling.

 

Personal gambling by passengers is not a "shipboard gambling operation" nor a "casino".

Carnival is 100% within their rights to limit this sort of gaming - but they are not required to by law or regulation. It is a choice they make.

 

[mz-s]

3 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

It wouldn't need to - because those limitations are on the gaming run by the cruise line, not the (legal under Panama law) "personal gambling".

 

The regulations of the CLIA apply to the cruise line not the passengers, and there is no regulation requiring them to prohibit personal gambling.

 

Personal gambling by passengers is not a "shipboard gambling operation" nor a "casino".

Carnival is 100% within their rights to limit this sort of gaming - but they are not required to by law or regulation. It is a choice they make.

 

 

Why do you think that just because CLIA is an organization that Carnival is a voluntary member of that those regulations are any less important than those that may be imposed by a governmental entity?

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Why do you think that just because CLIA is an organization that Carnival is a voluntary member of that those regulations are any less important than those that may be imposed by a governmental entity?

 

1) There is no CLIA regulation requiring Carnival to prohibit personal gambling

 

2) Why do I think that just because CLIA is an organization that Carnival is a voluntary member of that those regulations are any less important than those that may be imposed by a governmental entity?

 

Because policies of voluntary organizations with no legal authority ARE less important than regulations imposed by government.

 

Violating governmental regulations can lead to imprisonment. Violating policies of voluntary member organization can get you tossed out of the organization.

 

Membership in CLIA is not mandatory - and there are cruise lines who are not members. Following governmental regulation is mandatory.

[nc762shooter]

On 4/19/2024 at 11:03 AM, mz-s said:

My next cruise I'll organize an LRC session but instead of money we'll play with the next best thing: bacon.

Now who wants to bet on the likelihood of a thread where someone complains about the bacon shortage onboard? 🤣