Goodbye NCL and Possibly Cruising Altogether Rant One

[schmoopie17]

13 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

As far as I'm concerned, cruise lines are only in charge of what is actually theirs, meaning their staff, and that's it. Dock workers, pier workers, tugboat operators, customs and border enforcement, and municipal workers do not work for the cruise line, so any delays or bad customer service are NOT the fault of the cruise line, period.

So, I'm confused. Do we blame NCL or the port staff for making people wait so long hanging upside down? I'm leaning toward port staff...but so many things are upside down in the world today, I'm not sure who to blame in this instance.

[graphicguy]

15 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I always enjoy reading your posts and it's a joy to see what you write. However, this time I can't agree with you. As far as I'm concerned, cruise lines are only in charge of what is actually theirs, meaning their staff, and that's it. Dock workers, pier workers, tugboat operators, customs and border enforcement, and municipal workers do not work for the cruise line, so any delays or bad customer service are NOT the fault of the cruise line, period.

I could be wrong, but I think the pier workers are mostly union workers.  NCL couldn't motivate them either way even if they wanted to because they aren't NCL employees.  

 

I can't imagine NCL trying to get them to work smarter, better, etc and the pier workers  taking direction from an outside source very well.

 

Thought I read one time even the baggage porters/handlers are union.

 

Nothing against unions, but forcing the pier workers to be more efficient is probably a lost cause.

[julig22]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

I could be wrong, but I think the pier workers are mostly union workers.  NCL couldn't motivate them either way even if they wanted to because they aren't NCL employees.  

 

I can't imagine NCL trying to get them to work smarter, better, etc and the pier workers  taking direction from an outside source very well.

 

Thought I read one time even the baggage porters/handlers are union.

 

Nothing against unions, but forcing the pier workers to be more efficient is probably a lost cause.

AFAIK, the dock workers that take your luggage are unionized. So when they decide to have a work slow-down (happened in Seattle last year) - not much NCL can do.

Not sure about the contracted staff inside the terminal doing the check-in. 

[DCGuy64]

There are plenty of things I can gripe about that I would argue *are* the responsibility of the cruise line, like unsanitary kitchen conditions, slippery decks, poor staffing, long wait times in the restaurants, etc. Not saying these things are easily solved, but at least they're things the line has some control over. But to give a frequent example: it's not the airline's fault if my my Uber driver shows up late, or there's lots of traffic, or there's bad weather, or I don't like the food I order at an airport restaurant. Yet people will fault the cruise line for weather, strikes, CBP officials, and the like. That's totally inappropriate.

[surfclam2003]

On 4/24/2024 at 2:35 PM, Liljo22 said:

I agree with you.  NCL and probably cruising as a whole is not right for you.  But you already know that because, as you say, you are correct about everything.  

 

Looks like you bailed but so far this is what we got:.

 

-Pre-Cruise NCL was great (probably the most surprising part of this rant)

-Buffet Staff was great

-Customer Service was great

-Room Steward was great

-Captain was great

-Food was 9.5 of out 10

-Entertainment was good(could have used more Polka)

-Weather sucked

-Because the weather sucked, you couldn't use the outside areas.

-The gift shop didn't have enough variety for you. 

-Embarkation was bad

-You skipped a port

 

I have been on this board long enough to know that the main issue here was Embarkation.  Some people can't get over something that happens before they even step on the ship and it ruins the whole trip for them.  After that point, everything is magnified in there eyes.  The hostess at dinner didn't smile?  The whole staff is rude.  They had to wait more than 5 minutes at 1 bar?  The bartenders are terrible.  

 

If I was on this cruise, I would probably have had a great time.  

 

We were on this cruise and stayed on for a B2B for a total of 22 days. We had a great time! Yes it was crowded at times but manageable. Some people are never happy.

[Sailing12Away]

9 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

As far as I'm concerned, cruise lines are only in charge of what is actually theirs, meaning their staff, and that's it. Dock workers, pier workers, tugboat operators, customs and border enforcement, and municipal workers do not work for the cruise line, so any delays or bad customer service are NOT the fault of the cruise line, period.

Right, but doesn't NCL get to pick and choose which ports they use? If they consistently have issues with poor customer experience at a particular port for whatever reason (not talking the one off due to mother nature or weirdo things), isn't it in their best interest to stop using that port to avoid the complaints they know will come from guests?

 

In the lab world, we can pick which reference lab we want to use for tests we don't perform ourselves in-house. It's actually a requirement of the primary lab to annually review and evaluate the performance of the reference lab we use to ensure they're meeting our requirements for client satisfaction, accuracy, timeliness, etc. 

 

Cruise industry isn't as regulated on some things as the lab world, but I would imagine it's got to be some sort of KPI/metric somewhere in some bean counter's quarterly power point. No? Am I over thinking this?

[njhorseman]

48 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Right, but doesn't NCL get to pick and choose which ports they use? If they consistently have issues with poor customer experience at a particular port for whatever reason (not talking the one off due to mother nature or weirdo things), isn't it in their best interest to stop using that port to avoid the complaints they know will come from guests?

 

In the lab world, we can pick which reference lab we want to use for tests we don't perform ourselves in-house. It's actually a requirement of the primary lab to annually review and evaluate the performance of the reference lab we use to ensure they're meeting our requirements for client satisfaction, accuracy, timeliness, etc. 

 

Cruise industry isn't as regulated on some things as the lab world, but I would imagine it's got to be some sort of KPI/metric somewhere in some bean counter's quarterly power point. No? Am I over thinking this?

How would you suggest that NCL replace the Manhattan Cruise Terminal as a homeport ?  Cape Liberty has only one berth and is controlled by Royal Caribbean. Brooklyn has only one berth and is controlled by Carnival Corp. for its Cunard and Princess subsidiaries, with now MSC leasing berthing rights.

Oh...even if adequate docking space were available at either Cape Liberty or Brooklyn, it's going to be pretty much the same cast of characters running them. All three are under the general auspices of the Port Authority of NY and NJ.

Brooklyn and Manhattan are both managed by NYCEDC (New York City Economic Development Corporation), which has contracted day-to day management of both to Ports America, which subcontracts out the check in services at the pier...last I saw to a company called Intercruises that pretty much has a monopoly on those services in this area. Parking facility operations are subcontracted out to other operators. Stevedoring labor is provided by the local longshoreman's union, the ILA...no choice there.

 

The above should also tell you why it's next to impossible for NCL to have any control over what happens at the port...no alternatives are available and you have at least five organizations involved in port operations: PA of NY & NJ, Ports America, Intercruises, a parking operator and the ILA.

Edited May 4 by njhorseman

[FitchburgWIFamily]

So this thread has gone all over … and I am late to the party…but:  I know the cruise line can’t control the weather, but I do think they could do more to make the passenger experience better when the weather is bad.  
 

My last cruise had some bad weather days, and when nobody can be on the deck the entire ship feels way too crowded.  You feel claustrophobic and you get bored.

 

I think the ship could have some back up dailies that they could circulate if the weather is bad enough to keep people off the decks.

 

What about running rainy day movies in the ships theater?  Doing more activities in some of the restaurants or lounges that provided both entertainment and a place for people to be?  Like extra trivia games or more crafts.  

IMO, if it is too rainy to be on deck, I think they should try a little harder to create diversions.

 

 

[julig22]

4 hours ago, Sailing12Away said:

Right, but doesn't NCL get to pick and choose which ports they use? If they consistently have issues with poor customer experience at a particular port for whatever reason (not talking the one off due to mother nature or weirdo things), isn't it in their best interest to stop using that port to avoid the complaints they know will come from guests?

NCL stopped cruising from San Diego several years ago, moved most departures to San Pedro, rumor at that time the decision was made due to various issues with the port.

@njhorseman who says they have to sail from NYC at all? From the complaints I've seen regarding the lack of upcoming cruises, maybe they've already made that decision. 

[Sailing12Away]

9 hours ago, njhorseman said:

How would you suggest that NCL replace the Manhattan Cruise Terminal as a homeport ?  Cape Liberty has only one berth and is controlled by Royal Caribbean. Brooklyn has only one berth and is controlled by Carnival Corp. for its Cunard and Princess subsidiaries, with now MSC leasing berthing rights.

Oh...even if adequate docking space were available at either Cape Liberty or Brooklyn, it's going to be pretty much the same cast of characters running them. All three are under the general auspices of the Port Authority of NY and NJ.

Brooklyn and Manhattan are both managed by NYCEDC (New York City Economic Development Corporation), which has contracted day-to day management of both to Ports America, which subcontracts out the check in services at the pier...last I saw to a company called Intercruises that pretty much has a monopoly on those services in this area. Parking facility operations are subcontracted out to other operators. Stevedoring labor is provided by the local longshoreman's union, the ILA...no choice there.

 

The above should also tell you why it's next to impossible for NCL to have any control over what happens at the port...no alternatives are available and you have at least five organizations involved in port operations: PA of NY & NJ, Ports America, Intercruises, a parking operator and the ILA.

That's all well and good for NY, but I don't remember seeing a ton of complaints about that port. So even though that's where I live I wasn't suggesting they change that one if that's what you assumed. Only sailed out of here once and there were no hiccups. 

 

The point though is that they can do it. Not overnight, but with planning and research there are other options. Simply telling a city you're working on a 5 year plan to never come back will either make them cheer or potentially change some things around. 

 

Either way a win because if a location doesn't want you there you'll never get good service from the sub contacted teams who have to "help" you.

[trivia addict]

8 hours ago, FitchburgWIFamily said:

So this thread has gone all over … and I am late to the party…but:  I know the cruise line can’t control the weather, but I do think they could do more to make the passenger experience better when the weather is bad.  
 

My last cruise had some bad weather days, and when nobody can be on the deck the entire ship feels way too crowded.  You feel claustrophobic and you get bored.

 

I think the ship could have some back up dailies that they could circulate if the weather is bad enough to keep people off the decks.

 

What about running rainy day movies in the ships theater?  Doing more activities in some of the restaurants or lounges that provided both entertainment and a place for people to be?  Like extra trivia games or more crafts.  

IMO, if it is too rainy to be on deck, I think they should try a little harder to create diversions.

 

 

In February 2023 we were on the Joy on a cruise from LA to Mexico. The weather was horrible. Heavy rain and winds.
The entertainment staff did alter their daily activities. No alternate Daily was given out, but announcements on the PA system were given to inform passengers of new activities being held around the ship. It wasn’t a perfect solution, since with every passenger now inside every venue was very crowded, but at least the staff was trying.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Sailing12Away said:

That's all well and good for NY, but I don't remember seeing a ton of complaints about that port. So even though that's where I live I wasn't suggesting they change that one if that's what you assumed. Only sailed out of here once and there were no hiccups. 

 

The point though is that they can do it. Not overnight, but with planning and research there are other options. Simply telling a city you're working on a 5 year plan to never come back will either make them cheer or potentially change some things around. 

 

Either way a win because if a location doesn't want you there you'll never get good service from the sub contacted teams who have to "help" you.

If you haven’t seen complaints about NY you haven’t been paying attention.  If I were the type of poster who wanted to air my gripes I could have started a dozen threads myself. Yes,  since you're from NY I assumed you had cruised from here fairly often. The fact that you haven’t probably explains why you haven’t seen complaints...you simply haven’t looked very hard for them. 

 

Threatening NY with a 5 year plan to move elsewhere ignores the reality that there is nowhere else on the east coast that could serve the huge NY area market, where so many millions are just a short drive, train ride, or bus trip away. While it might work elsewhere I doubt it could work here.

 

 

[njhorseman]

8 hours ago, julig22 said:

NCL stopped cruising from San Diego several years ago, moved most departures to San Pedro, rumor at that time the decision was made due to various issues with the port.

@njhorseman who says they have to sail from NYC at all? From the complaints I've seen regarding the lack of upcoming cruises, maybe they've already made that decision. 

The complaints about lack of cruises from NY are about the reduction of the number of sailings and lack of variety in itineraries, not that there aren't cruises from NY. We used to have two NCL ships based in NY most of the time. That is no longer true.

The situation here can't be compared to San Diego and San Pedro. The substantial port facilities in San Pedro were already in place. There's no comparable port here that could replace NY. Plus, by moving the San Diego cruises to San Pedro they were moving closer to the center of the cruising population. Moving from NY would be moving operations further from the center of population. 

Edited May 4 by njhorseman

[Sailing12Away]

15 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

If you haven’t seen complaints about NY you haven’t been paying attention.  If I were the type of poster who wanted to air my gripes I could have started a dozen threads myself. Yes,  since you're from NY I assumed you had cruised from here fairly often. The fact that you haven’t probably explains why you haven’t seen complaints...you simply haven’t looked very hard for them. 

 

Threatening NY with a 5 year plan to move elsewhere ignores the reality that there is nowhere else on the east coast that could serve the huge NY area market, where so many millions are just a short drive, train ride, or bus trip away. While it might work elsewhere I doubt it could work here.

 

 

Like I said, my one trip out of NY we got out of the Uber and walked onto the ship in under 30 mins. My folks who were not in Haven had a similar experience, so it's not because we skipped any lines that regular folks would have to be on. As we were walking on the ship we looked over to the terminal and I even took a photo of my folks as they were walking on. They came completely separately from us, went to the normal security lines, etc etc. 

 

As for there not being any other options - that's nonsense. You've literally named two other nearby ports with Brooklyn and Cape Liberty. Can NCL move in there overnight - of course not. But looking at cruises scheduled now, there are plenty of days where nothing is scheduled - meaning NCL can claim that spot if they wanted. Especially if they were doing one way trips where you didn't need an opening on the front and back end.

 

 

[njhorseman]

58 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Like I said, my one trip out of NY we got out of the Uber and walked onto the ship in under 30 mins. My folks who were not in Haven had a similar experience, so it's not because we skipped any lines that regular folks would have to be on. As we were walking on the ship we looked over to the terminal and I even took a photo of my folks as they were walking on. They came completely separately from us, went to the normal security lines, etc etc. 

 

As for there not being any other options - that's nonsense. You've literally named two other nearby ports with Brooklyn and Cape Liberty. Can NCL move in there overnight - of course not. But looking at cruises scheduled now, there are plenty of days where nothing is scheduled - meaning NCL can claim that spot if they wanted. Especially if they were doing one way trips where you didn't need an opening on the front and back end.

 

 

Having done dozens of cruises from Manhattan on at least 6 different cruise lines, yes some were not problematic but some were total nightmares at embarkation, disembarkation, or both. To put it bluntly,  your lone cruise is meaningless as a measure of the experience of cruising from the port. On another day your experience could have been completely different. 

 

NCL runs relatively few one way trips beginning or ending in NY. I recall one or two in the past being scheduled to depart Brooklyn, but the overwhelming percentage of NCL  cruise passengers are on roundtrip voyages.  Moving a few cruises doesn't address the core issues that affect probably 95% of NCL's NY passengers. 

 

Did you forget what I documented for you about NCL having to deal with the same service providers regardless of whether they sail from Manhattan, Brooklyn or Cape Liberty? Moving a few cruises is going to do nothing to address the problems caused by having to deal with that Hydra...and I need to add the Coast Guard and USCBP, which can delay any embarkation and disembarkation. 

Edited May 4 by njhorseman

[Sailing12Away]

19 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Having done dozens of cruises from Manhattan on at least 6 different cruise lines, yes some were not problematic but some were total nightmares at embarkation, disembarkation, or both. To put it bluntly,  your lone cruise is meaningless as a measure of the experience of cruising from the port. On another day your experience could have been completely different. 

 

NCL runs relatively few one way trips beginning or ending in NY. I recall one or two in the past being scheduled to depart Brooklyn, but the overwhelming percentage of NCL  cruise passengers are on roundtrip voyages.  Moving a few cruises doesn't address the core issues that affect probably 95% of NCL's NY passengers. 

 

Did you forget what I documented for you about NCL having to deal with the same service providers regardless of whether they sail from Manhattan, Brooklyn or Cape Liberty? Moving a few cruises is going to do nothing to address the problems caused by having to deal with that Hydra. 

Not sure why you're so fixated on specifically NY embarkation ports. I never claimed to be an expert in them nor was I trying to say that my solo trip out of one means that it's the standard/norm/whatever for every trip every time. 

 

My point was simply that if there's a problem at any embarkation port where consistently the line at guest services once folks get on board is an hour deep more often than not - NCL should be looking into the reasons why. There will be things they can control or account for or compensate for (more chairs, cups of water, clearer instructions on where to go, estimated wait times, etc), and there will be things they can't (heat, rain, capacity of the building).  But they don't have to just accept it as what it is and continue to sail out of there.

[njhorseman]

10 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Not sure why you're so fixated on specifically NY embarkation ports. I never claimed to be an expert in them nor was I trying to say that my solo trip out of one means that it's the standard/norm/whatever for every trip every time. 

 

My point was simply that if there's a problem at any embarkation port where consistently the line at guest services once folks get on board is an hour deep more often than not - NCL should be looking into the reasons why. There will be things they can control or account for or compensate for (more chairs, cups of water, clearer instructions on where to go, estimated wait times, etc), and there will be things they can't (heat, rain, capacity of the building).  But they don't have to just accept it as what it is and continue to sail out of there.

I'm fixated on NY because it's a prime example of a major NCL embarkation port where it would be essentially impossible to move to another port that could serve its huge cruising market and where the operational Hydra makes it extraordinarily difficult...indeed next to impossible for NCL or any cruise line to do very much about improving conditions.

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, Sailing12Away said:

My point was simply that if there's a problem at any embarkation port where consistently the line at guest services once folks get on board is an hour deep more often than not - NCL should be looking into the reasons why. There will be things they can control or account for or compensate for (more chairs, cups of water, clearer instructions on where to go, estimated wait times, etc), and there will be things they can't (heat, rain, capacity of the building).  But they don't have to just accept it as what it is and continue to sail out of there.

Are you saying that NCL should pay the port to provide additional seating, water, better instructions (signage)?  BTW, who/how would NCL provide information on wait times?

[Sailing12Away]

55 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Are you saying that NCL should pay the port to provide additional seating, water, better instructions (signage)?  BTW, who/how would NCL provide information on wait times?

If NCL can have 20+ Haven staff members standing around waiting to personally escort passengers onesies twosies onto the ship, they can reallocate them elsewhere during non-peak Haven boarding times and *gasp* ask the Haven guests to take a seat and wait 15-20 mins to be escorted on in a small group - or let us walk on our own. Some of us don't need/want that escort.

 

I'm saying they need to drill down into the why. Why were folks particularly upset at port xyz on this particular day. When they have data that suggests a true problem, look into ways to resolve it. If that means renting additional folding chairs - so be it. If it means someone sets up a cup of water station when you get into the terminal building like they have at each port of call when you return to the ship - so be it. If that means asking someone to print out a neon sign that says "Priority boarding this way" because the existing signs aren't big enough, so be it. If it means working with the port staff to better educate them on the workflow and process for their cruise line so there's no confusion about what is/isn't supposed to happen, so be it.

 

Not for me to fix their problems when I don't know for sure what they are. But if organizations like Disney can figure out "if you're standing here you have another 2hr wait before you get to see Mickey" then I'm sure NCL or the port crew can figure something out as well.

[RocketMan275]

5 hours ago, Sailing12Away said:

If NCL can have 20+ Haven staff members standing around waiting to personally escort passengers onesies twosies onto the ship, they can reallocate them elsewhere during non-peak Haven boarding times and *gasp* ask the Haven guests to take a seat and wait 15-20 mins to be escorted on in a small group - or let us walk on our own. Some of us don't need/want that escort.

 

I'm saying they need to drill down into the why. Why were folks particularly upset at port xyz on this particular day. When they have data that suggests a true problem, look into ways to resolve it. If that means renting additional folding chairs - so be it. If it means someone sets up a cup of water station when you get into the terminal building like they have at each port of call when you return to the ship - so be it. If that means asking someone to print out a neon sign that says "Priority boarding this way" because the existing signs aren't big enough, so be it. If it means working with the port staff to better educate them on the workflow and process for their cruise line so there's no confusion about what is/isn't supposed to happen, so be it.

 

Not for me to fix their problems when I don't know for sure what they are. But if organizations like Disney can figure out "if you're standing here you have another 2hr wait before you get to see Mickey" then I'm sure NCL or the port crew can figure something out as well.

You really don’t understand how union shops work. If cruise line personnel did any of those things the unions could file a grievance which could result in penalties against the port, the city,and the cruise lines. 

[Sailing12Away]

On 5/4/2024 at 8:04 PM, RocketMan275 said:

You really don’t understand how union shops work. If cruise line personnel did any of those things the unions could file a grievance which could result in penalties against the port, the city,and the cruise lines. 

Are you saying the Haven crew members are union employees that are prohibited from leaving the sanctuary of the Haven embarkation lounge and offering cups of water to ALL nearby guests on an exceptionally hot day with embarkation delays? The port authority union employees are not doing this - which is the problem. So why in the world can't NCL allow their own employed crew members to do it? No one is asking NCL staff to become luggage porters, security screeners, or any of the other countless jobs it takes to get folks on a cruise. But things within their scope of their role that are outside the scope of the union port crew - absolutely they can.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Are you saying the Haven crew members are union employees that are prohibited from leaving the sanctuary of the Haven embarkation lounge and offering cups of water to ALL nearby guests on an exceptionally hot day with embarkation delays? The port authority union employees are not doing this - which is the problem. So why in the world can't NCL allow their own employed crew members to do it? No one is asking NCL staff to become luggage porters, security screeners, or any of the other countless jobs it takes to get folks on a cruise. But things within their scope of their role that are outside the scope of the union port crew - absolutely they can.

I am not saying Haven employees are union workers.

I am saying that Haven employees are strictly limited in what they can do and that does not include anything outside the Haven waiting area.  The union employees could perceive NCL employees passing out water, etc., as an enfringement on something that they could be doing which would increase union employment and salaries.  If so, the  union could file a grievance.  No employer wants that to happen.

 

 

[mjkacmom]

37 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Are you saying the Haven crew members are union employees that are prohibited from leaving the sanctuary of the Haven embarkation lounge and offering cups of water to ALL nearby guests on an exceptionally hot day with embarkation delays? The port authority union employees are not doing this - which is the problem. So why in the world can't NCL allow their own employed crew members to do it? No one is asking NCL staff to become luggage porters, security screeners, or any of the other countless jobs it takes to get folks on a cruise. But things within their scope of their role that are outside the scope of the union port crew - absolutely they can.

I’m sure haven personnel have enough to do on turnover day than hand out water (and I’m pretty sure you can get water at the MCT, but there aren’t enough chairs for all on the big ships).

[Sailing12Away]

19 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

I’m sure haven personnel have enough to do on turnover day than hand out water (and I’m pretty sure you can get water at the MCT, but there aren’t enough chairs for all on the big ships).

These are not my gripes... these were from the OP 9 pages back who farted and left the building for the rest of us locked inside to smell.

 

Maybe because I show up a bit later in the day, but the last few times I've arrived for a cruise there were a half dozen Haven employees standing around waiting for us to decide we wanted to go on the ship. So again, depending on the time of day, they're either super busy or doing nothing at all.

[erisajd]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:14 PM, icft said:

WilsCM made an innocent, easily understood, rational comment. Why twist it into something nefarious?

Because many of the regulars on this board are bullies =