Bigger or Smaller Ships for Alaska?

[Popsy_cruises]

We’re currently in the early stages of researching a once in a lifetime (for us) trip to Alaska. We’ve not yet picked a cruise line for the cruise portion but I’m intrigued to hear others thoughts on whether you prefer cruising on larger or smaller ships in Alaska? What are the pros and cons of each? 
 

We’ve been recommended both. 
Large: we’ve been told as you’re higher up you’ll see more and they often have the best observation lounge areas. Also there’s the obvious, there’s more choice of what to do. 
Small: we’ve been told you’ll get closer to glaciers and will have more luck sailing in certain areas than the larger ships. 
 

Thanks in advance! 

[edinburgher]

7 hours ago, Popsy_cruises said:

whether you prefer cruising on larger or smaller ships in Alaska?

Others will probably disagree, but I personally don't think the size of the ship matters as much as the cruiseline itself, and HAL and Princess have been cruising Alaska for many many years now and have loads of experience.  For land extensions, they also own trains and lodges.  They really are well established in the region.

 

On our itineraries we noticed that our HAL ships appeared to have better docking locations than some other lines and good arrival and departure times. (eg NCL uses out of town Ward Cove in Ketchikan and sometimes has short hours in ports)  and they appear to be allocated more permits for Glacier Bay than some other lines, although you should still check their itineraries to be sure it is included.

 

We would opt for one or the other and should they have a few ships in Alaska, would probably opt for a mid size one.

[Aquahound]

Ice is the factor determining how close ships get to glaciers.

[edinburgher]

7 hours ago, Popsy_cruises said:

and will have more luck sailing in certain areas than the larger ships. 

The presence of seal pups on ice floes will also determine how close a ship can sail to them as there are rules to protect sea and wildlife. Same with whales, can only get to within a certain distance of them no matter whether your ship is large or small.

 

popsy_ cruises I am sure I won't be alone in puzzling over what you meant when you said "small ships have more luck sailing in certain areas"

 

Which areas?  And why would that be?

 

 

Edited May 23 by edinburgher

[Glaciers]

Unless you're looking at much smaller ships like the ones offered by UnCruise, Alaskan Dream & Lindblad, most of the main line ships including their smaller ships go to the same areas and are port intensive. The three mentioned, particularly UnCruise & Alaskan Dream spend more time in remote areas of SE Alaska. They provide an exceptional experience.

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, Popsy_cruises said:

We’re currently in the early stages of researching a once in a lifetime (for us) trip to Alaska. We’ve not yet picked a cruise line for the cruise portion but I’m intrigued to hear others thoughts on whether you prefer cruising on larger or smaller ships in Alaska? What are the pros and cons of each? 
 

We’ve been recommended both. 
Large: we’ve been told as you’re higher up you’ll see more and they often have the best observation lounge areas. Also there’s the obvious, there’s more choice of what to do. 
Small: we’ve been told you’ll get closer to glaciers and will have more luck sailing in certain areas than the larger ships. 
 

Thanks in advance! 

 

Lots of factors determine how close you get to the glaciers, with the ship's tonnage not really being a factor.

 

The key factors are ice in the water, the ship's hull rating and the presence of marine life, which can preclude any vessel access. The mega ships and medium sized cruise ships generally have basic ice class hulls in accordance with their Classification Society. These ships cannot operate in ice, except occasional small bergy bits.

 

You will find small expedition ships with ice classifications in accordance with the IMO Polar Code that can operate in new summer ice. These ships would have no problems accessing the Alaska glaciers. However, they are considerably more expensive.

 

The time of year and itinerary are also huge factors. In early season, you have a higher probability of not getting up to Hubbard Glacier and same with Tracy Arm. Whereas, Glacier Bay is almost guaranteed to see at least 1 glacier. One is often closed due to marine life, but 2 others are normally available, throughout the entire season. In working 2 full Alaska seasons + almost a dozen cruises as a pax, I have never failed to get into Glacier Bay, have only made it into Tracy Arm once and missed Hubbard about 3 times.

 

With respect to the height of lounges above the water line, it may be a consideration for the smallest of the expedition ships, but for any vessel of 500 + pax, I'll suggest it isn't a factor worth considering. I'll suggest the pax/space ratio is of significantly higher concern. It doesn't matter how nice the lounges are, if you are sharing them with thousands of fellow pax. Smaller ships generally have considerably more space per pax, so you have more prime viewing areas per pax.

 

When cruising Alaska, for me it is all about the scenery, so I'm not concerned how many activities the ship offers. Cruising close to the Solstice also provides many hours of daylight to enjoy the scenery, when cruising inland passages.

[Popsy_cruises]

34 minutes ago, edinburgher said:

The presence of seal pups on ice floes will also determine how close a ship can sail to them as there are rules to protect sea and wildlife. Same with whales, can only get to within a certain distance of them no matter whether your ship is large or small.

 

popsy_ cruises I am sure I won't be alone in puzzling over what you meant when you said "small ships have more luck sailing in certain areas"

 

Which areas?  And why would that be?

 

 

The person we spoke to said the smaller ships often sail in the inside passage and larger ones don’t. They also said sometimes smaller ships are allowed to sail when larger ships are turned away if there’s limits on the number of ships in glacier bay for an example. This person has cruiser Alaska 3 times and this is the advice they gave us but this is why I’ve asked for other people’s opinions as they may not have been accurate in the advice they gave. 

[Popsy_cruises]

10 minutes ago, Glaciers said:

Unless you're looking at much smaller ships like the ones offered by UnCruise, Alaskan Dream & Lindblad, most of the main line ships including their smaller ships go to the same areas and are port intensive. The three mentioned, particularly UnCruise & Alaskan Dream spend more time in remote areas of SE Alaska. They provide an exceptional experience.

Thank you! I haven’t heard of these lines so I’ll definitely look into them. 

[Popsy_cruises]

6 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Lots of factors determine how close you get to the glaciers, with the ship's tonnage not really being a factor.

 

The key factors are ice in the water, the ship's hull rating and the presence of marine life, which can preclude any vessel access. The mega ships and medium sized cruise ships generally have basic ice class hulls in accordance with their Classification Society. These ships cannot operate in ice, except occasional small bergy bits.

 

You will find small expedition ships with ice classifications in accordance with the IMO Polar Code that can operate in new summer ice. These ships would have no problems accessing the Alaska glaciers. However, they are considerably more expensive.

 

The time of year and itinerary are also huge factors. In early season, you have a higher probability of not getting up to Hubbard Glacier and same with Tracy Arm. Whereas, Glacier Bay is almost guaranteed to see at least 1 glacier. One is often closed due to marine life, but 2 others are normally available, throughout the entire season. In working 2 full Alaska seasons + almost a dozen cruises as a pax, I have never failed to get into Glacier Bay, have only made it into Tracy Arm once and missed Hubbard about 3 times.

 

With respect to the height of lounges above the water line, it may be a consideration for the smallest of the expedition ships, but for any vessel of 500 + pax, I'll suggest it isn't a factor worth considering. I'll suggest the pax/space ratio is of significantly higher concern. It doesn't matter how nice the lounges are, if you are sharing them with thousands of fellow pax. Smaller ships generally have considerably more space per pax, so you have more prime viewing areas per pax.

 

When cruising Alaska, for me it is all about the scenery, so I'm not concerned how many activities the ship offers. Cruising close to the Solstice also provides many hours of daylight to enjoy the scenery, when cruising inland passages.

This is really useful information so thank you for sharing! I’m not fussed about what’s on board really as long as there’s food and drink but I like the idea of something similar to an observation lounge where we can be inside but still see the great scenery. Like you, I believe you go to Alaska for Alaska and not the ship. But since it’s likely we’ll only get to do it once I want to make sure we book the best options for us. That’s really good to know about Glacier Bay too as not all routes include it. I’d rather book one that does to almost guarantee seeing a glacier and not risk missing them due to bad weather or something. 

[edinburgher]

1 minute ago, Popsy_cruises said:

They also said sometimes smaller ships are allowed to sail when larger ships are turned away if there’s limits on the number of ships in glacier bay for an example.

Glacier Bay scenic cruising is by permit only and my understanding is that the daily number is limited and pre-arranged well in advance, not issued on the day, but others may be more knowledgeable than me.  And local rangers board to give commentary and that too would be pre-arranged as the number of rangers would need to tally with the number of ships.  I simply don't understand how a "small ship" could turn up unannounced and expect to enter simply because it is "small".  As before, HAL and Princess usually have more allocated permits than some other lines. I think your friends are possibly confused about Glacier bay regulations.😉

[Popsy_cruises]

1 minute ago, edinburgher said:

Glacier Bay scenic cruising is by permit only and my understanding is that the daily number is limited and pre-arranged well in advance, not issued on the day, but others may be more knowledgeable than me.  And local rangers board to give commentary and that too would be pre-arranged as the number of rangers would need to tally with the number of ships.  I simply don't understand how a "small ship" could turn up unannounced and expect to enter simply because it is "small".  As before, HAL and Princess usually have more allocated permits than some other lines. I think your friends are possibly confused about Glacier bay regulations.😉

Well, putting this as politely as possible, the person in question is someone I work with and they’re a bit of a know it all who doesn’t always know that much! Hence me asking on here. I figured CC people would have a lot more info than this person. If you were to ask them they would likely tell you they invented Alaska cruising 😂 

 

Thanks for all your tips! 

[Aquahound]

11 minutes ago, Popsy_cruises said:

The person we spoke to said the smaller ships often sail in the inside passage and larger ones don’t. They also said sometimes smaller ships are allowed to sail when larger ships are turned away if there’s limits on the number of ships in glacier bay for an example. This person has cruiser Alaska 3 times and this is the advice they gave us but this is why I’ve asked for other people’s opinions as they may not have been accurate in the advice they gave. 

 

It's good that you are asking here because I don't think you are getting the best advice from that person.

 

Larger ships do sail the Inside Passage.  It's the largest ships sailing to Alaska, like RCI Quantum Class, NCL Breakaway+ Class and Princess Royal Class that do not sail the IP.  Other larger ships like HAL Pinnacle Class, Princess Grand Class, and Celebrity Solstice Class do sail the IP.  The key to the IP is embarkation port.  Look to Vancouver, not Seattle. 

 

As others stated, Glacier Bay is based on permits, so ships are not getting "turned away."  Princess Royal Class sails Glacier Bay.   

[edinburgher]

14 minutes ago, Popsy_cruises said:

The person we spoke to said the smaller ships often sail in the inside passage and larger ones don’t.

There are past threads about inside/outside passage.  you could look for them in the past threads which include the words "inside passage2.  These

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/search/?q=inside passage&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=33&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=and

 

And you don't need to spend all your time inside staring out from a lounge.  Best viewing is usually from the open decks where you have wider views, and some lines will open up bow areas which are usually closed to passengers in especialy scenic areas to give additional viewing opportunities..

[Popsy_cruises]

1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

 

It's good that you are asking here because I don't think you are getting the best advice from that person.

 

Larger ships do sail the Inside Passage.  It's the largest ships sailing to Alaska, like RCI Quantum Class, NCL Breakaway+ Class and Princess Royal Class that do not sail the IP.  Other larger ships like HAL Pinnacle Class, Princess Grand Class, and Celebrity Solstice Class do sail the IP.  The key to the IP is embarkation port.  Look to Vancouver, not Seattle. 

 

As others stated, Glacier Bay is based on permits, so ships are not getting "turned away."  Princess Royal Class sails Glacier Bay.   

Thank you! We had thought sailing out of Vancouver would be best mainly because of our flight options but it sounds like it’s best all round from what you’ve said. I mentioned this in the post above but the person who told me this is a very poor know it all so it doesn’t surprise me that they’ve got things wrong. Good job I asked!

[Aquahound]

1 minute ago, Popsy_cruises said:

Thank you! We had thought sailing out of Vancouver would be best mainly because of our flight options but it sounds like it’s best all round from what you’ve said. I mentioned this in the post above but the person who told me this is a very poor know it all so it doesn’t surprise me that they’ve got things wrong. Good job I asked!

 

Oh gosh.  When it comes to Alaskan itineraries, Vancouver is the clear winner.  I think all here are in agreeance with that one.  Otherwise, you sail rough sea outside of Vancouver Island, and you must make an obligatory stop in Victoria.  

 

If you would like to pick a larger ship that sails both the IP and Glacier Bay out of Vancouver, I recommend HAL Koningsdam.  

[BeasleysMom66]

I wouldn't worry about an "observation lounge" because if there is something to see there will be somewhere on any ship to see it.  I am sailing towards Vancouver right now on the Summit and one of the best viewings on the cruise was in Icy Straight Point/Hoonah while in port.  The humpback whales chose to play right off the ship at the dock ALL DAY.  Those of us at lunch around 1pm got the treat of a lifetime including flipper action and alot of deep dives with tails.  Pick an itinerary and cruise line/ship that suits your goals for the trip and you won't be disappointed.

 

[Popsy_cruises]

5 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Oh gosh.  When it comes to Alaskan itineraries, Vancouver is the clear winner.  I think all here are in agreeance with that one.  Otherwise, you sail rough sea outside of Vancouver Island, and you must make an obligatory stop in Victoria.  

 

If you would like to pick a larger ship that sails both the IP and Glacier Bay out of Vancouver, I recommend HAL Koningsdam.  

Thanks! HAL is on our list to look into along with Princess so I’ll definitely have a look at the Koningsdam. I have some NCL credits so they’re also on the list although from what I’ve read so far I’m not sure they’re the best for Alaska. We’re also looking at Celebrity as we’ve always fancied trying them and never have. 

[Popsy_cruises]

Just now, BeasleysMom66 said:

I wouldn't worry about an "observation lounge" because if there is something to see there will be somewhere on any ship to see it.  I am sailing towards Vancouver right now on the Summit and one of the best viewings on the cruise was in Icy Straight Point/Hoonah while in port.  The humpback whales chose to play right off the ship at the dock ALL DAY.  Those of us at lunch around 1pm got the treat of a lifetime including flipper action and alot of deep dives with tails.  Pick an itinerary and cruise line/ship that suits your goals for the trip and you won't be disappointed.

 

Beautiful pictures! Thanks for your tips 😊

[BeasleysMom66]

2 minutes ago, Popsy_cruises said:

Beautiful pictures! Thanks for your tips 😊

 

One more tip:  if one of your ports is Ketchikan DO NOT book a tour from one of the carnival barker sales people at the port.  I made the mistake of doing that and it was NOT worth it.  What they sell you and what it is are not even close.  

[Aquahound]

7 minutes ago, Popsy_cruises said:

Thanks! HAL is on our list to look into along with Princess so I’ll definitely have a look at the Koningsdam. I have some NCL credits so they’re also on the list although from what I’ve read so far I’m not sure they’re the best for Alaska. We’re also looking at Celebrity as we’ve always fancied trying them and never have. 

 

Celebrity is an excellent cruise line...one of my favorites, in fact.  However, since this is a once-in-a-lifetime cruise and you want to see Glacier Bay, skip Celebrity.  GB is not on any of their itineraries.  

[Heidi13]

32 minutes ago, Popsy_cruises said:

The person we spoke to said the smaller ships often sail in the inside passage and larger ones don’t. They also said sometimes smaller ships are allowed to sail when larger ships are turned away if there’s limits on the number of ships in glacier bay for an example. This person has cruiser Alaska 3 times and this is the advice they gave us but this is why I’ve asked for other people’s opinions as they may not have been accurate in the advice they gave. 

 

Glacier Bay is a National Park operated by the Parks Service. They issue requests for proposal to the cruise industry to apply for entry permits. Permits are valid for 10-years and were last issued about 2019. Princess and HAL have the most permits, and from memory, NCL, Cunard, Seabourn and Viking also have some permits. RCL were offered permits, but declined, so no RCI ships visit Glacier Bay. Ships are normally limited to 2 vessels per day, which can be restricted to 1 vessel early/late season.

 

The size of the ship, has minimal impact on whether the ship will sail, or how much of the Inside Passage the ship navigates. The largest Princess ships, the Royal Class, do not sail through Seymour Narrows and the Canadian Inside Passage. The reason is not the size, but the fact the ships do not handle well, as Princess went cheap with propulsion and manoeuvring equipment.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's Alaska cruises sailed the entire Inside Passage, but this required 2 Canadian pilots for 48 hrs, US Pilots for most of the remainder and lots of additional fuel. To provide perspective, on 7-day R/T Vancouver cruises, I spent only 6 hrs a week on the Bridge without a pilot aboard. As the size of ships increased and cost cutting became the norm, they cut the top half of the Canadian Inside Passage, saving 50% of the pilotage fees and reducing fuel consumption. Cutting some of the Alaska Inside Passage saved additional pilotage fees. Some smaller ships do still sail the total Inside Passage, but they are usually the very small expedition ships.

 

Entering Glacier Bay is based on permits, not the size of the ship. However, some of the very smaller expedition ships are US Flagged, and never having worked on US tonnage, I have no experience on whether they get preferential treatment. On foreign-flagged tonnage, the size of the ship has zero impact on entering the bay.

 

This is from completing 2-seaons working Alaska cruises on the Bridge, then 30+ years working on the Canadian West Coast. Clearly the advice provided by the 3-cruise rookies isn't overly accurate.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, edinburgher said:

Glacier Bay scenic cruising is by permit only and my understanding is that the daily number is limited and pre-arranged well in advance, not issued on the day, but others may be more knowledgeable than me.  And local rangers board to give commentary and that too would be pre-arranged as the number of rangers would need to tally with the number of ships.  I simply don't understand how a "small ship" could turn up unannounced and expect to enter simply because it is "small".  As before, HAL and Princess usually have more allocated permits than some other lines. I think your friends are possibly confused about Glacier bay regulations.😉

Lots of unclear info here. 

 

Glacier Bay allows 2 ships per day, IIRC. HAL and Princess have a huge share of the permits, no "usually" about it...it used to be 40% each, but I believe that has dropped some. The permits are issued on 10 year contracts, not year by year, or month by month. Some cruise lines have NO GB permits, some were offered some, and declined them.

[Popsy_cruises]

1 hour ago, BeasleysMom66 said:

 

One more tip:  if one of your ports is Ketchikan DO NOT book a tour from one of the carnival barker sales people at the port.  I made the mistake of doing that and it was NOT worth it.  What they sell you and what it is are not even close.  

Thank you! I’d heard there were a lot of vendors at the port and guessed at least some of them wouldn’t be good. We usually try to book as much as possible in advance so will definitely skip them. 

[Popsy_cruises]

58 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Celebrity is an excellent cruise line...one of my favorites, in fact.  However, since this is a once-in-a-lifetime cruise and you want to see Glacier Bay, skip Celebrity.  GB is not on any of their itineraries.  

Thanks! 

[Popsy_cruises]

38 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Glacier Bay is a National Park operated by the Parks Service. They issue requests for proposal to the cruise industry to apply for entry permits. Permits are valid for 10-years and were last issued about 2019. Princess and HAL have the most permits, and from memory, NCL, Cunard, Seabourn and Viking also have some permits. RCL were offered permits, but declined, so no RCI ships visit Glacier Bay. Ships are normally limited to 2 vessels per day, which can be restricted to 1 vessel early/late season.

 

The size of the ship, has minimal impact on whether the ship will sail, or how much of the Inside Passage the ship navigates. The largest Princess ships, the Royal Class, do not sail through Seymour Narrows and the Canadian Inside Passage. The reason is not the size, but the fact the ships do not handle well, as Princess went cheap with propulsion and manoeuvring equipment.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's Alaska cruises sailed the entire Inside Passage, but this required 2 Canadian pilots for 48 hrs, US Pilots for most of the remainder and lots of additional fuel. To provide perspective, on 7-day R/T Vancouver cruises, I spent only 6 hrs a week on the Bridge without a pilot aboard. As the size of ships increased and cost cutting became the norm, they cut the top half of the Canadian Inside Passage, saving 50% of the pilotage fees and reducing fuel consumption. Cutting some of the Alaska Inside Passage saved additional pilotage fees. Some smaller ships do still sail the total Inside Passage, but they are usually the very small expedition ships.

 

Entering Glacier Bay is based on permits, not the size of the ship. However, some of the very smaller expedition ships are US Flagged, and never having worked on US tonnage, I have no experience on whether they get preferential treatment. On foreign-flagged tonnage, the size of the ship has zero impact on entering the bay.

 

This is from completing 2-seaons working Alaska cruises on the Bridge, then 30+ years working on the Canadian West Coast. Clearly the advice provided by the 3-cruise rookies isn't overly accurate.

This is really interesting, I love learning all about this stuff so thank you so much for sharing. Also I’d say your assessment of my colleague is a very kind but accurate statement.