Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[coolbreeze!!!!]

This really is no different than the restaurant industry since we do not know what our local restaurants are paying their waitstaff. I agree the feel good title "Employee Appreciation" is misleading to us but apparently well understood by the Princess employees. I treat the 18% gratuity as a cost of sailing and then provide cash tips to those going above and beyond what I expected.

[Torfamm]

59 minutes ago, whitecap said:

 

If I go to a restaurant and the wait staff does an excellent job, I don't hand the owner extra money to be put in his or her pocket, to be distributed, throughout the year to all those who work at the restaurant.  Why should it be any different when cruising.  With the exception of our very first cruise (we are now over 50), we have always removed the gratuities, obtained small envelopes from Customer Service desk, and given tips directly to the persons who went above and beyond to see to it that we enjoyed our cruise.  

To be fair, tips given to servers in restaurants in the US are not uncommonly shared with other staff or pooled. The one advantage from the servers’ point of view would be that they aren’t penalized for the good or bad luck of what their table chooses to order since tips in the US are generally based on a percentage of the check. 20% of a salad and 3 iced teas is much less than a huge steak and three glasses of wine but the effort required isn’t much different.

Edited May 29 by Torfamm
Typo

[dickinson]

It has been documented here (not this thread) many times that since the startup, after Covid shut things down, that crew can now keep cash tips.  

[whitecap]

4 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

This, I think, is what causes the confusion.

 

Go back to post 1.  Princess are not calling the charge that this thread is about a gratuity.  They are calling it 'crew appreciation / service charge'.  That is the daily per person charge, which varies by cabin type.  Actually, I think the text quoted in post 1 gives a very clear and transparent explanation of how Princess uses those charges.   And I don't think anyone should be shocked that part of what they pay for their cruise is used for staff salaries / wages.

 

All cruise lines rely on customers to pay crew salaries.  I agree that in an ideal world that would all be included in one overall cruise fare.  But, for commercial / cultural reasons, that seems rare, apart from P&O in the UK and some of the very high end lines.  Other lines have daily service charges / crew appreciation charges and explain how those provide an element of crew compensation.  On some lines (e.g. MSC and Costa) those charges are mandatory and cannot be changed or removed.  On others, they can be adjusted.  I think it is pretty clear that these are not 'tips or 'gratuities'.

 

We're on a Princess cruise at the moment.  There is a separate 'gratuities' line entry on every food / beverage / service bill (typically 18 per cent, but adjustable).  That is the equivalent of what you are referring to in terms of land-based restaurants, not the crew appreciation / service charge that this thread was about originally.   

 

We have met many many fantastic staff on this 4-week cruise.  And most of the ones with whom we have interacted tell us they have been with Princess for multiple contracts over years and years.  Clearly, they are happy with what and how they are paid by Princess.  I know that we have contributed to them receiving a salary with which they are happy by paying our daily service charge as part of our package and the additional 18 per cent on goods and services not covered by that.  For us, it is just part of the cruise fare in the same way that when we go to a restaurant at home, an element of our food bill pays staff wages across the whole company and an element of our supermarket bill pays staff wages across the whole supermarket chain.  Those who wish to provide an additional gratuity to individual named staff members are welcome to do so.

I agree that everyone should know that part of your "cruise fare" is used for wages.  But, when you label an additional charge as "crew appreciation" you are inferring that the additional charge is a tip for exception service to those crew members on your cruise and we all know that it is not.  Why not just call it what it is, compensation that is distributed to all crew members on all ships in the fleet!  Sleight of hand in advertising has become the norm. Crew appreciation is how they list it but, then in the fine print is tells you that may not be the case.  My DW and I have this discussion every time a commercial for Velveeta cheese comes on:  Is it cheese or not?  Well, it does have at lease 51% cheese.  How about Impossible Chicken Nuggets?  It looks like a typical chicken nugget, but it has no chicken in it; it is a veggie nugget.  Just call it what it is.  

[Mark_K]

5 minutes ago, latebloomer56 said:

I have read this as well, but there was more to it. I was concerned that cash to certain individuals was not being kept. Was told this same statement, however once it is determined the passenger did not remove the DSC the cash was returned to the individual.

I leave the charges and was happy with an auto pay process over the years. I do give individual thank you cards with a little extra and though the bar staff or IC staff are paid differently some receive an envelope as well. I do hope they can keep the cash. But will never really know will we.

The rules, and what happens in practice, don’t always agree.  Also, sometimes staff will give you the answer they believe will be in their best interests.

[HotRoot]

31 minutes ago, Yehootu said:

 

Awhile back I handed an envelope to our waiter and assistant and they wanted our cabin number. I asked "why". They told us that if we had opted out of the added gratuities, they were obligated to turn over the cash to be pooled. I now just put my cabin number on the tip if I'm giving an envelope. This last cruise there was a lot of crew turnover. I gave crew members leaving separate tips and said it wasn't a tip, but me buying them a drink before their flight.

Waiters and Assistant Waiters know your cabin number.  They have it on their "screen" when you sit down at their table.  Your medallion tells them your cabin number.  Your cabin steward knows your cabin number.  They should not have had to ask you for your cabin number.  Since medallions have come into play, I never have to give my cabin number to anybody.

[Bgwest]

31 minutes ago, Yehootu said:

 

Awhile back I handed an envelope to our waiter and assistant and they wanted our cabin number. I asked "why". They told us that if we had opted out of the added gratuities, they were obligated to turn over the cash to be pooled. I now just put my cabin number on the tip if I'm giving an envelope. This last cruise there was a lot of crew turnover. I gave crew members leaving separate tips and said it wasn't a tip, but me buying them a drink before their flight.

Please define:a while back

 

This clearly was the case in recent history but no longer. The current reality is described in post #20. 

[latebloomer56]

5 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

The rules, and what happens in practice, don’t always agree.  Also, sometimes staff will give you the answer they believe will be in their best interests.

Ok but it came from Customer Service. Maybe something they can't take away. I have read on here about phone cards? Wonder about Amazon gift cards, these are popular with my family members.

[Bgwest]

32 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

From the Princess terms and conditions of employment:

 

Nonetheless, to the extent passengers follow the suggested contribution guidelines in whole or in part, or deliver their contribution to the Company or directly to any crew member(s), each and every crew member agrees that any such contribution is not his personal wage, but rather a contribution to the Discretionary Hotel and Dining Charge Pool (the “Pool”).  Each and every crew member also agrees to deliver any such voluntary passenger contribution he or she receives from any passenger under any circumstances to the Pool immediately upon receipt of the contribution from the passenger

Dated information. 

[Bgwest]

18 minutes ago, dickinson said:

It has been documented here (not this thread) many times that since the startup, after Covid shut things down, that crew can now keep cash tips.  

Accurate information.  

[dog]

Instead of gratitudes or tips we have crew appreciation and it remains discretionary for those who pay a Standard fare.

 

Still not clear on cash I hand to laundry, room service delivery, cabin steward & waiters. Do they keep it for themselves now?

[dickinson]

7 minutes ago, dog said:

Instead of gratitudes or tips we have crew appreciation and it remains discretionary for those who pay a Standard fare.

 

Still not clear on cash I hand to laundry, room service delivery, cabin steward & waiters. Do they keep it for themselves now?

Read posts 34 & 35

[dog]

2 minutes ago, dickinson said:

Read posts 34 & 35

Sorry- I would prefer to hear from current/ recent former crew.

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, whitecap said:

I believe that most cruisers believe that by paying the gratuities, they are tipping those crew members on their cruise who provided good or exceptional services.  They very well may not be.  The gratuities paid, as stated in the Princess paperwork, go into a pool, controlled by Princess and distributed by Princess throughout the fleet!  Your room steward may never see a dime of the gratuities you paid and the same for those in the dining room who served you so well.  

If I go to a restaurant and the wait staff does an excellent job, I don't hand the owner extra money to be put in his or her pocket, to be distributed, throughout the year to all those who work at the restaurant.  Why should it be any different when cruising.  With the exception of our very first cruise (we are now over 50), we have always removed the gratuities, obtained small envelopes from Customer Service desk, and given tips directly to the persons who went above and beyond to see to it that we enjoyed our cruise.  

And if they cruise were dispersing the gratuities as extra tips for everyone fairly across the ship then it's acceptable

 

But when smallprint shows our tips are actually just paying normal staff compensation and bonus that's entirely UNACCEPTABLE

[JimmyVWine]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

If you go in restaurants and bars on the land the gratuities do have to go to the staff and it's on top of their wages

 

It's not used to top up wages

 

The law makes sure of that

I'm not sure where you live, but this is definitely not the case in my state.  In my state, waiters and bartenders receive a much lower minimum wage and tips are expected to top up wages in order to bring the worker to, or above the state mandated minimum wage for non-tipped workers.  And if the tips fall short, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.  

 

The cruise industry is simply mirroring the American model of how restaurants have always paid its workers, and how tips are used to bring the wage up to the legal level.  If we think of a cruise ship as a giant restaurant, then this entire issue becomes much less concerning.  Certain restaurants, such as those in the Danny Meyer Group, have abolished tipping and they pay all workers at or above the state mandated minimum wage right out of the shoot.  Menu prices have been raised to reflect this paradigm.  A cruise line could do the same thing.  Your cruise fare could increase $17 per day ($120 for a 7 day cruise) and they could advertise "no tipping."  I am not at all sure why certain people would rejoice at this.  Money is money, and in grade school, we learned about the transitive property of addition. $1,000 fare + $120 in gratuities = $1,120 in fare with no tipping required.  But as the Chief noted in his one and only post, the current system does serve as a self-policing watchdog where each crew member is outwardly trying to do their best so that they (or their Team) get a bigger chunk of the reward. If all the money is collected up front and paid out as a flat salary to the crew members with no bonus or reward structure in place, does anyone think that the quality of service would improve?  Your cost will remain as is, but will the level of service?  

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, coolbreeze!!!! said:

This really is no different than the restaurant industry since we do not know what our local restaurants are paying their waitstaff. I agree the feel good title "Employee Appreciation" is misleading to us but apparently well understood by the Princess employees. I treat the 18% gratuity as a cost of sailing and then provide cash tips to those going above and beyond what I expected.

My daughter is in the hospitality industry. From UK but working in Canada currently on a 3 year visa 

 

She's a chef her boyfriend is a server

 

They've worked several locations

 

Every location they get an hourly wage above minimum wage and then gratuities are all for the staff team on top of that

 

The servers get the most but then contribute a portion to the kitchen team behind them to share

 

But the tips are not used in any way to subsidise wages

 

Similar  in UK hospitality. It's illegal to do what's happening on cruises. 

 

Tips are shown separately on wageslips as well now. There's strict rules about this

 

So staff aren't exploited

 

[JimmyVWine]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

My daughter is in the hospitality industry. From UK but working in Canada currently on a 3 year visa 

 

She's a chef her boyfriend is a server

 

They've worked several locations

 

Every location they get an hourly wage above minimum wage and then gratuities are all for the staff team on top of that

 

The servers get the most but then contribute a portion to the kitchen team behind them to share

 

But the tips are not used in any way to subsidise wages

 

Similar  in UK hospitality. It's illegal to do what's happening on cruises. 

 

Tips are shown separately on wageslips as well now. There's strict rules about this

 

So staff aren't exploited

 

This is clearly not the American model, which the cruise industry is patterning itself after.  In my state, the minimum wage is just under $16.  But waiters receive $6.38 and bartenders receive $8.23.  Tips are expected to top up these numbers so that the worker receives no less than $16 per hour.  If the tips fail to do that, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.

[PMGS247]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't agree with it, and have never liked it, but it isn't going away, and those who remove the DSC to "tip" those who they feel did extra, are rewarding those people less than a traditional tip would (since they have already removed part of their compensation), and punishing others who may have done a fine, but not excellent, job by removing their compensation.

 

Yep...while I deleted the rest of the quote to save space this post sums it up perfectly.  The system stinks, but it is the system, and if you know how it works, you realize removing the DSC is just short changing the crew, even if someone were to exactly replace their removed DSC with cash tips.

 

It is a method by the cruise lines to hide costs so they can advertise lower cruise fares only to tack on these more discreet costs later.  It's doubly bad because it hides costs from the end customer and the only people at risk due to the fact that it's semi-optional are the crew.

 

The system does stink.  But the conversation of what the system should be and how to get it changed is completely separate from whether you should or should not remove your DSC while you're on board under the current system.  Like other cruise lines that don't use the DSC? Fantastic....sail with them.

[Interestedcruisefan]

7 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

I'm not sure where you live, but this is definitely not the case in my state.  In my state, waiters and bartenders receive a much lower minimum wage and tips are expected to top up wages in order to bring the worker to, or above the state mandated minimum wage for non-tipped workers.  And if the tips fall short, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.  

 

The cruise industry is simply mirroring the American model of how restaurants have always paid its workers, and how tips are used to bring the wage up to the legal level.  If we think of a cruise ship as a giant restaurant, then this entire issue becomes much less concerning.  Certain restaurants, such as those in the Danny Meyer Group, have abolished tipping and they pay all workers at or above the state mandated minimum wage right out of the shoot.  Menu prices have been raised to reflect this paradigm.  A cruise line could do the same thing.  Your cruise fare could increase $17 per day ($120 for a 7 day cruise) and they could advertise "no tipping."  I am not at all sure why certain people would rejoice at this.  Money is money, and in grade school, we learned about the transitive property of addition. $1,000 fare + $120 in gratuities = $1,120 in fare with no tipping required.  But as the Chief noted in his one and only post, the current system does serve as a self-policing watchdog where each crew member is outwardly trying to do their best so that they (or their Team) get a bigger chunk of the reward. If all the money is collected up front and paid out as a flat salary to the crew members with no bonus or reward structure in place, does anyone think that the quality of service would improve?  Your cost will remain as is, but will the level of service?  

It's about transparency

 

And at the moment calling what they deduct from our cards on Princess "gratuities"

 

Is the very opposite of transparency

 

And I say it again it's very misleading to passengers and deceptive

 

It's only on places like here you get to realise the reality 

 

When I pay for a cruise I'm paying a lot of money for a holiday. That should cover the cost of staff that I will never even see on the cruise

 

If I want to tip staff who serve me well (which I do) then that money is for them serving me well

 

100 per cent put the cruise prices up take away the deception and let us tip staff and them receive the tip

 

We don't even need to discuss the ins and outs of anything like this to try and cover for what the cruise ships are doing or defend them

 

As it stands they are hoodwinked a larger percentage of guests

 

I've cruised 16 years on over 6 cruiselines now so reasonably expereinced

 

And it's only now I fully understand what's happening when I don't tip cabin stewards direct and trust the cruiseline to do it for me

 

I'm pretty angry tbh when I see it in black and white as shown in the opening post

 

I didn't realise it was that cynical and blatant although I did suspect

 

I'm just too trusting I guess

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

This is clearly not the American model, which the cruise industry is patterning itself after.  In my state, the minimum wage is just under $16.  But waiters receive $6.38 and bartenders receive $8.23.  Tips are expected to top up these numbers so that the worker receives no less than $16 per hour.  If the tips fail to do that, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.

That will be outlawed in USA soon enough like every other civilised country is doing

 

And in those locations the money is going to servers and kitchens staff who have earnt tips through good service

 

We know who we are tipping and why

 

On a cruise ship we are basically subsidising wages of the entire staff on board? 

 

That's not how tips work?

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, whitecap said:

I agree that everyone should know that part of your "cruise fare" is used for wages.  But, when you label an additional charge as "crew appreciation" you are inferring that the additional charge is a tip for exception service to those crew members on your cruise and we all know that it is not.  Why not just call it what it is, compensation that is distributed to all crew members on all ships in the fleet!  Sleight of hand in advertising has become the norm. Crew appreciation is how they list it but, then in the fine print is tells you that may not be the case.  My DW and I have this discussion every time a commercial for Velveeta cheese comes on:  Is it cheese or not?  Well, it does have at lease 51% cheese.  How about Impossible Chicken Nuggets?  It looks like a typical chicken nugget, but it has no chicken in it; it is a veggie nugget.  Just call it what it is.  

Exactly it's deceptive

 

And deliberately so

 

Theres people in this thread explaining what's behind it all and why they do it. But it doesn't take away the fact it's deceptive and the vast majority don't have the advantage of coming on this forum to have it explained to them like this

[whitecap]

7 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

This is clearly not the American model, which the cruise industry is patterning itself after.  In my state, the minimum wage is just under $16.  But waiters receive $6.38 and bartenders receive $8.23.  Tips are expected to top up these numbers so that the worker receives no less than $16 per hour.  If the tips fail to do that, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.

So, if I understand your example, I'm not tipping for good service, I am paying a wage.  In that case, have I not become an "employer" and have to file the proper tax forms to show the wages I have paid?  Also, what would keep a waiter from placing the cash tip in their pocket, not turn it in, claim not to have reached the $16 minimum and have the employer have to make up the "difference"?  Lets see, what is the word I'm looking for, oh yes, SCAM!  

[JimmyVWine]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

100 per cent put the cruise prices up take away the deception and let us tip staff and them receive the tip

Do you really think that the cruise lines have not test-marketed this concept?  Or restaurants for that matter?  I can guarantee you that the system is the way it is because the cruise line knows that if it charges $1,120 up front instead of $1,000 with $17 per day for 7 days added on as gratuities, it will sell fewer cruises.  People seem to think that they know the industry better than the people who actually run it.  When you go to a restaurant and see a steak on the menu for $40, if you order it, you are going to pay $48.  You aren't being cheated, or hoodwinked, or deceived.  And the $8 gratuity that you pay is not a "reward" for the server.  It is part of their pay.  We live with this reality every day.  The system is working.  If it weren't, it would change.  Businesses change to evolve to the better.  If they don't, they fail. We have to trust that the people running multi-billion dollar businesses actually have a grasp on this. 

[dog]

This thread is about crew Appreciation - tips on  Princess ship.

 

Thanks for the insight from a former cruise member.-chengkp75.

Edited May 29 by dog

[JimmyVWine]

1 minute ago, whitecap said:

So, if I understand your example

It's not my example.  It is written into the employment laws of the state.  And many other states as well.