Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[TRLD]

3 minutes ago, c-boy said:

I'm  afraid that our tipping culture has taught up with the service industry in Australia 

Just as in California our restaurant staffing levels are well on their way in dropping to Australian levels.

[memoak]

14 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

And yet this is happening in their own backyards at local restaurants. The waiters tip out the bus boy and cook and the bartenders tip out the bar backs. 

Yes having worked in restaurants the waiters tip out bartenders and bus boys at a minimum. Chefs are generally not tipped out and they make substantialy more than the others 

[memoak]

18 hours ago, rideev said:

I don't remember ever signing up to pay crew appreciation charges except the one time I cruise with Princess Plus (which cost more than it was worth for us.)

If you don’t have a package you are automatically charged for CA daily on your folio

 

[memoak]

18 hours ago, rideev said:

It was either 50 or 60.  We're retired so don't need Internet.  We don't drink alcohol and very little soda.  We drink coffee, but just regular coffee.

We are also retired and could not go a single day of our lives without internet. We like to keep up on news and sports and of course Cruise Critic. Be aware that in the IC the regular drip coffee does have a charge

[2 cruises a year]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

We are also retired and could not go a single day of our lives without internet. We like to keep up on news and sports and of course Cruise Critic. Be aware that in the IC the regular drip coffee does have a charge

Plus, all of our bills are paid online. They need to be kept an eye on. 

[Iamcruzin]

2 hours ago, remydiva said:

I always tip room steward something on the FIRST day, not the last to hopefully start the relationship off on the right foot.

Where I come from that's a bribe not a tip.

[JimmyVWine]

3 hours ago, MacMadame said:

1. Some of us want to be sure the people who made our cruise wonderful are being compensated fairly.

 

2.  Some want to make sure we aren't participating in exploitation.

 

3.  Some are interested in how things work.

 

4.  Some are just nosy.

As to #s 1 and 2, there is nothing that you can do, and certainly nothing that you can post on a chat board that will make one whit of difference.  The economic structure of the cruise industry is what it is.  If you are morally offended or ethically concerned, then maybe cruising isn't for you. The compensation paradigm in the cruise industry looks nothing at all like what you are probably used to in other industries and it isn't going to change.

 

As to #3, curiosity is a great thing.  But these same curious people don't really care about how the compensation paradigm works in the Landry's Restaurant Group nearly as much as they do about the way food service workers who work for Princess are compensated.  The natural response to such selective curiosity is cynicism and skepticism.

 

As to #4, no one should ever be "nosy" about other peoples' income stream unless one works for the IRS, FBI, DEA or ATF.  Those folks get a pass.      

[Iamcruzin]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

Yes having worked in restaurants the waiters tip out bartenders and bus boys at a minimum. Chefs are generally not tipped out and they make substantialy more than the others 

I was having breakfast in a diner today. I wanted to take a picture to post here but I couldn't do it without being obvious about it. They actually had a tip jar at the register that said, "Tip for the chef". It had $5 dollar bill in it. I wanted to take that $5 so bad. Really? You have the nerve to put out a tip jar and suggest the tip amount. Ridiculous.

[Retired-N-Happy]

12 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Where I come from that's a bribe not a tip.

That's what my father did when he was still alive.  He would do his pre cruise research and figure out what his "bar" was going to be for the duration of the cruise.  When he got his first drink, he'd tip the bartender 20 bucks. It usually resulted in slightly heavier pours and the occasional freebie.  This was primarily before drink packages started.

[Iamcruzin]

3 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

That's what my father did when he was still alive.  He would do his pre cruise research and figure out what his "bar" was going to be for the duration of the cruise.  When he got his first drink, he'd tip the bartender 20 bucks. It usually resulted in slightly heavier pours and the occasional freebie.  This was primarily before drink packages started.

Tipping at the bar after you are served is tipping for service whatever the motive is. Handing the room steward money on your first meeting is a bribe and is patronizing. What extra service is expected before you are even there one night? Are they expected to be tucked in at night?

[JimmyVWine]

19 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

This was primarily before drink packages started.

Not to mention measured pours and inventory reconciliation.  

[paddingtonbear]

3 hours ago, c-boy said:

I'm  afraid that our tipping culture has caught up with the service industry in Australia 

I’d round that up to $850. You are already paying a tip with the Sunday surcharge so I wouldn’t pay any extra. 
 

Yes, Americans have spread the “culture” worldwide. 
Restaurants are a bit different even here. We also round up for taxis for excellent service but that is absolutely it for tipping here.  
 

I like the auto tipping on US cruises. I don’t have to worry about how to do it or how much goes to whom. I won’t be tipping over and above that. 

Edited Tuesday at 08:59 PM by paddingtonbear

[Retired-N-Happy]

11 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Tipping at the bar after you are served is tipping for service whatever the motive is. Handing the room steward money on your first meeting is a bribe and is patronizing. What extra service is expected before you are even there one night? Are they expected to be tucked in at night?

It's a similar situation Mike.  If you tip the room steward as soon as you meet him, you can call it a bribe for future service.  Just like the Jackson that my father would give the bartender.  The 20 bucks wasn't for that one drink, it was for future good service that my father would hopefully receive over the course of the cruise.  Similar to the 'bribe" that the room Steward would receive for keeping the ice bucket filled or whatever else would be asked of him.

I personally tip the opposite way, giving bartenders who have taken care of me over the course of the cruise with a stipend I hand them on the last night.

[Iamcruzin]

11 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

It's a similar situation Mike.  If you tip the room steward as soon as you meet him, you can call it a bribe for future service.  Just like the Jackson that my father would give the bartender.  The 20 bucks wasn't for that one drink, it was for future good service that my father would hopefully receive over the course of the cruise.  Similar to the 'bribe" that the room Steward would receive for keeping the ice bucket filled or whatever else would be asked of him.

I personally tip the opposite way, giving bartenders who have taken care of me over the course of the cruise with a stipend I hand them on the last night.

I haven't sailed since covid but before that servers would walk around the pool and ask if you want a drink. Since I had the drink package with the included tip for the bar, I would tip the person who brought me the drink from the bar. I don't know if this service still exists but I guess I will find out in September.

[Retired-N-Happy]

20 minutes ago, paddingtonbear said:

 You are already paying a tip with the Sunday surcharge so I wouldn’t pay any extra. 

It's a 641.00 bill.  The Sunday surcharge is 5.00 per person, or 10.00 total. So, a 10.00 tip is OK on a 641.00 bill?

[Retired-N-Happy]

1 minute ago, Iamcruzin said:

I haven't sailed since covid but before that servers would walk around the pool and ask if you want a drink. Since I had the drink package with the included tip for the bar, I would tip the person who brought me the drink from the bar. I don't know if this service still exists but I guess I will find out in September.

I have sailed a dozen times since COVID, haven't had a drink delivered to me in over 25 years.  I prefer to drink at a bar, usually Good Spirits at Sea and will take care of the bartenders who have taken care of us over our 14 days on the ship. 

With the introduction of the Medallion delivery, what you were accustomed to is still in play.  You can order food or drink from your phone app and the Medallion will find you for your delivery location.

[paddingtonbear]

6 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

It's a 641.00 bill.  The Sunday surcharge is 5.00 per person, or 10.00 total. So, a 10.00 tip is OK on a 641.00 bill?

DH would take it up to $700 for exceptional but we’d have a discussion on the way home. Waiters get fabulous pay on the weekends. 

[remydiva]

38 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Tipping at the bar after you are served is tipping for service whatever the motive is. Handing the room steward money on your first meeting is a bribe and is patronizing. What extra service is expected before you are even there one night? Are they expected to be tucked in at night?

Perhaps I should have made myself more clear to avoid any wrath… I ask for wine glasses and robes soon as I get into cabin . 
When they arrive, I thank the steward and give a $20 tip. 
So no, it is not a bribe. 

[SCX22]

4 hours ago, TRLD said:

The one thing that I cannot figure is why some seem to go to spend a lot of time trying to attack the program, paint the cruiseline as being unfair or unethical to their employees, when the nature of the system under US accounting regulations give them the opportunity to opt out or reduce.

 

Part of this is the inherent nature of cruising which requires cruise lines to undercut wages in order to compensate for attractive value pricing to passengers.  The crew works up to 12 hours a day, everyday of their contract with very little breaks, and work for very low wages.  This wouldn't fly in the under US laws and cruise lines get away with it by registering their ships under flags of convenience.  Cruisers want to think that they are supplementing the crews' low wages by giving them tips.  They are, but they aren't in the sense that the tips just get them to their contracted wages.  I get that that's how restaurant staff is paid in the US, but it's the low overall contractual compensation for cruise ship crew that makes it hit harder.

[TRLD]

Just now, SCX22 said:

 

Part of this is the inherent nature of cruising which requires cruise lines to undercut wages in order to compensate for attractive value pricing to passengers.  The crew works up to 12 hours a day, everyday of their contract with very little breaks, and work for very low wages.  This wouldn't fly in the under US laws and cruise lines get away with it by registering their ships under flags of convenience.  Cruisers want to think that they are supplementing the crews' low wages by giving them tips.  They are, but they aren't in the sense that the tips just get them to their contracted wages.  I get that that's how restaurant staff is paid in the US, but it's the low overall contractual compensation for cruise ship crew that makes it hit harder.

Yes and no.

 

There is a reason why so many from the Pilippines and other 3rd world countries take cruise ship jobs as well as other maritime positions. While cruise ship pay is low by American and European standards, the income is multiples of what they can make in their home country. The hotel positions in the pool are roughly 50% wages 50% CA pool.

 

Actually their contracts are very clear in what is their contracted wage. While those that are members of the pool have it defined in their contract. Which in the past has very clearly stated that even those that receive a fix pay out amount, those amounts are not wages. No reason to expect language to be any different in current contracts.

 

As those onboard ship found out when covid hit, the CA pool stopped very quickly when the passengers stopped. Those on board then got the wage portion, but no payouts from the CA pool.

 

A good friend of mine was a steward on Princess, now retired. He put his daughter through medical school on his income from the cruiseline.

 

His son currently is a steward. He was one of those stuck onboard during the shutdown. His son makes more per month as a steward then his daughter makes as a Doctor in the Philippines. His daughter went to med school because he absolutely refused to let his daughter work on a cruise ship.

 

 

[SCX22]

7 minutes ago, TRLD said:

His daughter went to med school because he absolutely refused to let his daughter work on a cruise ship.

 

Cruise ship work is laborious and the crew can't make up for lost time away from their families.  

[TRLD]

11 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

 

Cruise ship work is laborious and the crew can't make up for lost time away from their families.  

Kind of funny that so many desire the positions.

 

I guess their definitions of laborious are not quite in line with ours. I would expect a 10 year old out in the rice paddies on Luzon might feel a bit differently.

 

Their priorities would also seem to be a bit different in that providing food, housing and otherwise taking care of their families economically makes up for the time away on contract. With their usual 2 months off between contracts.

 

When that difference in income might mean the difference between having things we take for granted but can be more luxuries in those countries.

 

The reason because of why he refused to let his daughter work on a cruise ship was more because of the nature of some crew relationships/partying/bed hopping (however you wsnt to put it) than the laborious work.  

Edited Tuesday at 11:23 PM by TRLD

[vjmatty]

19 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Kind of funny that so many desire the positions.

 

I guess their definitions of laborious are not quite in line with ours. I would expect a 10 year old out in the rice paddies on Luzon might feel a bit differently.

 

Their priorities would also seem to be a bit different in that providing food, housing and otherwise taking care of their families economically makes up for the time away on contract. With their usual 2 months off between contracts.

 

When that difference in income might mean the difference between having things we take for granted but can be more luxuries in those countries.

 

The reason because of why he refused to let his daughter work on a cruise ship was more because of the nature of some crew relationships/partying/bed hopping (however you wsnt to put it) than the laborious work.  

I’m not sure how that would work since crew have to share cabins. Do you think they put socks over the doorknob like in college dorms? 😉

[MacMadame]

3 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

As to #s 1 and 2, there is nothing that you can do, and certainly nothing that you can post on a chat board that will make one whit of difference.

I've learned how Princess handles this and am comfortable with it. I wouldn't have learned that if no one posted about it on CC especially the ones who have some inside knowledge.

 

3 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

As to #3, curiosity is a great thing.  But these same curious people don't really care about how the compensation paradigm works in the Landry's Restaurant Group nearly as much as they do about the way food service workers who work for Princess are compensated.  The natural response to such selective curiosity is cynicism and skepticism.

How do you know that I'm not curious about those things?

 

24 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Kind of funny that so many desire the positions.

It's a trade-off. Like most things in life. For some, it's worth it and for some, it is not.

 

[SCX22]

22 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Kind of funny that so many desire the positions

I do think that the pandemic put things into perspective for some crew.  Many never returned to the crew life or moved to greener pastures on a different line or shifted careers altogether.  Many don’t want the cruise ship life, but want to work for logistics companies’ cargo ships as the work is more laid back.  

 

According to one Filipino waiter, Magsaysay Recruitment Agency (Princess’ and Holland America’s recruitment agency in the Philippines) has had trouble finding applicants/filling positions post pandemic.  Princess has had to look elsewhere for ship labor.  It’s noticeable on Princess ships because the crew is more international.  

 

Everything is relative, but I do think that comparing cruise ship work to agriculture and saying that it’s arduous is a slap in the face to the crew.  
 

Our statements in the previous posts show our privilege as cruisers.