Difficulty of shore excursions

[Displayname99]

Hi … just wondering if the cruise companies exaggerate difficulty of expeditions? Should I be put off if I’m average fitness about shore hike level of difficulty? Example: Mount Keipen, Harstat, norway.  

[John Bull]

Hi, and welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

Can I guess that it's a hike that you're keen to take, but are concerned that you're not as young or fit as you'd like?

When organisers (or even CC members) are unlikely to know much more about their charges other than age it's difficult to advise. And it's difficult for folk to know territory that they've not traversed. 

"Exaggerate" is perhaps too strong a word, but certainly cruise lines tend to err on the side of caution - they don't want their excursion delayed or fouled-up by someone who can't keep up on a hill or steps or uneven ground, nor do they want a passenger to suffer aches & pains or worse.

 

If in doubt, check out maps and photos  including google-images & "street-views".

And videos. Here's one which gives an idea, but it's an 8-hour hike so mebbe not where ship's hike takes you  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LFIBI_mAYA

I don't know the place, it looks steep and high in photos, but - altho the hike may not to anywhere near the top or there might be a relatively easy way up - I'd expect the excursion to be rated as "difficult" or "very difficult".

 

 

You'll not get much help from the cruise line, only crew who've been there and who've seen & talked to you face-to-face can be much help. What is the ship's cancellation policy? Can you book & then cancel if / when you can get to talk to those who know it?

Also on the cancellation theme, check whether the excursion is cancelled due to inclement weather. Excursions tend to go regardless of weather - they don't want to lose money just because bad weather takes away the enjoyment, but if they mention that this hike is subject to the weather the it's a pound to a penny that it's a pretty tough one.

 

If you get no first-hand experiences here, go to the main CC menu page, scroll to Roll Calls, then navigate to recently-completed cruises and go thro those with the same itinerary as yours. Ask on there if anyone's done that excursion

 

JB 🙂

[CDNPolar]

In my opinion, the difficulty is often not emphasized enough, but that depends on your physical ability and stamina.

 

On our preferred cruise line which attracts many older folks, I feel that often the description is not explicit enough.

[PelicanBill]

Another factor is that some kinds of activity are more strenuous than others to certain people, or, weather conditions can make it different.

 

A moderate hike may be easy to some while a moderate swim may be impossible.

And rain can make a hike much harder, or rough seas make an easy swim very hard.

 

[crystalspin]

11 hours ago, Displayname99 said:

Example: Mount Keipen, Harstat, norway.  

Welcome to posting on Cruise Critic!

 

You might browse here, then ask the question if you don't find anything pertinent on the first few pages:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/116-northern-europe-baltic-sea/

 

[Mary229]

It is as stated above based on one’s skills and fitness. They could state more information such as grade, surface and steps, it really isn’t that hard since they rely on the tour operators for write ups.  I can walk for many miles up elevations so strenuous is usually a cake walk for me but I am not skilled on bikes so a moderate bike ride might be difficult.  Again, they should require more info from the guide services 

[CDNPolar]

I don't necessarily expect this of every cruise line or operator, but with Viking, our preferred line, I got the impression that they were much more intimately experienced with each excursion before offering them to their guests.  I am not suggesting that they experience each one, but Viking should know and offer more in a description than they do - IMO.

 

Too often we have seen individuals half way through - or sooner - ask the guide if they can sit out the rest and if they are circling back or how to get back to the ship on their own.  This is because the type of walking - cobblestones, stairs, etc. - are too much or the sheer distance.

 

I think that cruise lines can do better.

[SoloAlaska]

You can also use an app like AllTrails and compare the data to other hikes you have done. 

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, SoloAlaska said:

You can also use an app like AllTrails and compare the data to other hikes you have done. 

The tour guides could also provide that info, they writ the description .  Not all areas are on Alltrails (I am a big fan).  

[SoloAlaska]

51 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

The tour guides could also provide that info, they writ the description .  Not all areas are on Alltrails (I am a big fan).  

True but it is also something that is difficult to put into words. Plus there’s a risk that if a guide does get specific and people disagree or let’s say there’s an on trail accident they could be held liable.  With that said stating the elevation gain, distance, and type of terrain would be a good start. What I consider a quick easy hike others would consider difficult and what I consider challenging others think I’m nuts for attempting. I don’t consider myself in great shape however but I like pushing myself.

[CDNPolar]

9 hours ago, SoloAlaska said:

True but it is also something that is difficult to put into words. Plus there’s a risk that if a guide does get specific and people disagree or let’s say there’s an on trail accident they could be held liable.  With that said stating the elevation gain, distance, and type of terrain would be a good start. What I consider a quick easy hike others would consider difficult and what I consider challenging others think I’m nuts for attempting. I don’t consider myself in great shape however but I like pushing myself.

 

Are you suggesting that if a guide, or the cruise line misrepresents the difficulty of an excursion that there would be liability if you were injured?  This is what I think you are saying...

If so, then I would suggest that you look to your cruise line terms and I am sure that by purchasing your cruise you are releasing the cruise line and the tour provider from any liability coming from a misrepresentation.

 

Excursions are basically at your own risk.

 

Here is just a bit of the language from the Viking passenger contract:

 

ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ACTS OR OMISSIONS OF THE CARRIER OR THOSE PERSONS OR ENTITIES PROVIDING TRAVEL SERVICES, ACCOMMODATIONS OR ANY OTHER ELEMENT OF
A CRUISE TOUR. VRC IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE, INJURY, ILLNESS, DEATH, LOSS, ACCIDENT, DELAY OR IRREGULARITY OF ANY KIND, OCCASIONED BY REASON OF ANY ACT OR OMISSION ARISING DURING OR FROM THE CRUISE TOUR.

[ldubs]

16 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

Are you suggesting that if a guide, or the cruise line misrepresents the difficulty of an excursion that there would be liability if you were injured?  This is what I think you are saying...

If so, then I would suggest that you look to your cruise line terms and I am sure that by purchasing your cruise you are releasing the cruise line and the tour provider from any liability coming from a misrepresentation.

 

Excursions are basically at your own risk.

 

Here is just a bit of the language from the Viking passenger contract:

 

ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ACTS OR OMISSIONS OF THE CARRIER OR THOSE PERSONS OR ENTITIES PROVIDING TRAVEL SERVICES, ACCOMMODATIONS OR ANY OTHER ELEMENT OF
A CRUISE TOUR. VRC IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE, INJURY, ILLNESS, DEATH, LOSS, ACCIDENT, DELAY OR IRREGULARITY OF ANY KIND, OCCASIONED BY REASON OF ANY ACT OR OMISSION ARISING DURING OR FROM THE CRUISE TOUR.

 

"If you are injured due to our negligence ,we are not responsible".   I don't think that will really hold up.  

 

That aside, I think it very wise for them to include the degree of difficulty.   I've been on excursions with folks who simply shouldn't have been there due to physical limitations.  I've also read descriptions that made me decide it was probably better I not go.  

[CDNPolar]

17 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

"If you are injured due to our negligence ,we are not responsible".   I don't think that will really hold up.  

 

That aside, I think it very wise for them to include the degree of difficulty.   I've been on excursions with folks who simply shouldn't have been there due to physical limitations.  I've also read descriptions that made me decide it was probably better I not go.  

 

You are dealing with companies that are not registered in the USA, ships that are not flagged in the USA, and travel providers that are not registered in the USA.

 

I don't think that US standards, expectations, and litigious nature will hold up in other countries. 

 

I may be completely wrong, but I would not assume that tripping on uneven pavement in a foreign country would net any kind of legal satisfaction.   Just walk down the streets in Buenos Aires and you have to have eyes all around you at all times because of the gaps and the holes and the shambles that are their sidewalks... injuries are just waiting to happen and I would say that those travel providers are not concerned about legal action.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

You are dealing with companies that are not registered in the USA, ships that are not flagged in the USA, and travel providers that are not registered in the USA.

 

I don't think that US standards, expectations, and litigious nature will hold up in other countries. 

 

I may be completely wrong, but I would not assume that tripping on uneven pavement in a foreign country would net any kind of legal satisfaction.   Just walk down the streets in Buenos Aires and you have to have eyes all around you at all times because of the gaps and the holes and the shambles that are their sidewalks... injuries are just waiting to happen and I would say that those travel providers are not concerned about legal action.

 

I agree with jurisdictional issues, though it is not clear to me, for civil suits, if corporate HQ location may be a factor.  I wasn't referring to any specific standards or expectations. I was referring to the idea that a cruise line could act negligently without consequences. At the risk of being disbarred as a would be lawyer, I think that is different than not assuming liability.  

 

I was just taking the legal disclaimer at face value, which I think was a mistake in the context of this thread.   In terms of your example, I would agree wholeheartedly.  In my opinion, trying to hold a cruise line negligent for cobbles on a road in Buenos Aires would be completely frivolous.  Though, to be sure, many think otherwise which is why the cruise lines often point out the tour involves walking over rough surfaces.    

[Elaine5715]

20 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

You are dealing with companies that are not registered in the USA, ships that are not flagged in the USA, and travel providers that are not registered in the USA.

 

I don't think that US standards, expectations, and litigious nature will hold up in other countries. 

 

I may be completely wrong, but I would not assume that tripping on uneven pavement in a foreign country would net any kind of legal satisfaction.   Just walk down the streets in Buenos Aires and you have to have eyes all around you at all times because of the gaps and the holes and the shambles that are their sidewalks... injuries are just waiting to happen and I would say that those travel providers are not concerned about legal action.

Very true.  Many of the idiot labels and signs custom to the US aren't present in other places.  Ancient sites haven't installed railings nor signs that say "Watch Your Step"

[CDNPolar]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

Very true.  Many of the idiot labels and signs custom to the US aren't present in other places.  Ancient sites haven't installed railings nor signs that say "Watch Your Step"

 

I may be very wrong with this, but what we expect in North America in liability is desperately missing in other parts of the world.  That is why we should all buy medical insurance when we travel.

 

I have climbed some sketchy stairs without railings and rock steps carved out of a rock face and my thought is that this is my risk and no one is going to pay me any life changing windfall if I am injured.

[Elaine5715]

14 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

 

I may be very wrong with this, but what we expect in North America in liability is desperately missing in other parts of the world.  That is why we should all buy medical insurance when we travel.

 

I have climbed some sketchy stairs without railings and rock steps carved out of a rock face and my thought is that this is my risk and no one is going to pay me any life changing windfall if I am injured.

During an excursion to the Belize Zoo, the guide gave one warning that the electricity to the fences were supposed to be off.  When people reached through the fencing, they ignored them and when one guy got knocked on his rear, they turned away quickly to hide their reaction.  Most of us did not hide our reaction.  😆 

[ldubs]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:52 AM, Elaine5715 said:

During an excursion to the Belize Zoo, the guide gave one warning that the electricity to the fences were supposed to be off.  When people reached through the fencing, they ignored them and when one guy got knocked on his rear, they turned away quickly to hide their reaction.  Most of us did not hide our reaction.  😆 

 

Am I reading this wrong?   They purposely told people the electric fence was off for a laugh? 

[verviers2000]

From my experience, cruise companies do tend to play up the difficulty a bit to cover their bases and avoid any liability. If you're of average fitness and used to doing regular hikes, you should be fine. Mount Keipen is challenging but totally doable.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Am I reading this wrong?   They purposely told people the electric fence was off for a laugh? 

No, they told us that we were getting one warning.  The electric fence was supposed to be off but sometimes the staff forget so just don't touch the fence.  This zoo, more like a wildlife rehabilitation place wasn't like US zoos with huge distances between people and animals.  The electric (old style wire and knob) fence was about three feet from the walkway and the wild animals immediately on the other side.  You could stick your fingers through the chain link fence and poke a panther. 

People ignored the warnings and keep sticking hands and cameras through the fence. The guide wasn't interrupting his lecture to parent these adults.   One of the guys who though he was smarter finally got bounced on his butt.    People kept their hands to themselves after that.  

[ldubs]

13 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

No, they told us that we were getting one warning.  The electric fence was supposed to be off but sometimes the staff forget so just don't touch the fence.  This zoo, more like a wildlife rehabilitation place wasn't like US zoos with huge distances between people and animals.  The electric (old style wire and knob) fence was about three feet from the walkway and the wild animals immediately on the other side.  You could stick your fingers through the chain link fence and poke a panther. 

People ignored the warnings and keep sticking hands and cameras through the fence. The guide wasn't interrupting his lecture to parent these adults.   One of the guys who though he was smarter finally got bounced on his butt.    People kept their hands to themselves after that.  

 

I did misunderstand - thanks.   I sure wouldn't want to poke a panther.  🙂

[ldubs]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:33 AM, CDNPolar said:

 

I may be very wrong with this, but what we expect in North America in liability is desperately missing in other parts of the world.  That is why we should all buy medical insurance when we travel.

 

I have climbed some sketchy stairs without railings and rock steps carved out of a rock face and my thought is that this is my risk and no one is going to pay me any life changing windfall if I am injured.

 

I think this is very true though the cruise lines might still feel some exposure.   I recall a stair to the city wall in Dubrovnik having no handrails on the open side.  When crowded with cruise passengers, I saw it as accidents ready to happen.   I know I was a little apprehensive someone would stumble and knock me off when I was along the open edge.  As crowded as it is now, I wonder if they installed rails.