Maybe new ships names: Carnival Adventure and Carnival Encounter

[shof515]

on the cruise director website https://airtable.com/appin6uTVeCF8mthS/shrxzucqLGHbpDmm8/tblZJCAW6us7UhDmZ there is 2 columns that say Adventure and Encounter. Could these be possible new ship names for the future?

 

 

[jimbo5544]

They are the names for the two ships that came over from P&O Australia

[ceeceeDee]

They are currently sailing as Pacific Encounter and Pacific Adventure for P&O Australia. They will be rebranded and re-named Carnival Encounter and Carnival Adventure after March 2025

[DanJ]

Originally known as Star Princess and Golden Princess from the early 2000's. I have really fond memories of their original sister, the Grand Princess, 25 years ago. 

[firefly333]

13 hours ago, DanJ said:

Originally known as Star Princess and Golden Princess from the early 2000's. I have really fond memories of their original sister, the Grand Princess, 25 years ago. 

Oh I sailed on the grand princess myself. And caribbean princess. 

 

I wish lines would not all choose the same names. Now when someone says adventure I'd have to ask which one. Royal also has a adventure. 

[DanJ]

What I don't get is Carnival selling off the Costa Atlantica but taking the former Dawn Princess out of service with P&O Australia and no plans with it now. I thought Spirit-class ships were highly popular within Carnival, I'm surprised they didn't add it to their fleet like the other Costa ships rather than selling it to Margaritaville. 

 

[dolphinsfan246]

1 hour ago, DanJ said:

What I don't get is Carnival selling off the Costa Atlantica but taking the former Dawn Princess out of service with P&O Australia and no plans with it now. I thought Spirit-class ships were highly popular within Carnival, I'm surprised they didn't add it to their fleet like the other Costa ships rather than selling it to Margaritaville. 

 

I agree that was a puzzling move to me as well. I believe it had something to do with Atlantica already belonging to the new Chinese brand. The ownership with that brand is a little different than the rest of the cruise lines Carnival owns. 

[tidecat]

6 hours ago, dolphinsfan246 said:

I agree that was a puzzling move to me as well. I believe it had something to do with Atlantica already belonging to the new Chinese brand. The ownership with that brand is a little different than the rest of the cruise lines Carnival owns. 

Carnival Corporation owned the ship up until October 2023. Carnival actually exited its position in Adora Cruises (formerly CSSC Shipping) in September 2023. I can't find any detail on the transaction but I suspect they took the ship back as part of the payment for their stake in the joint venture. It looks like Carnival Corp sold Atlantica and AIDAaura for a total of $80 million based on the difference in proceeds from sales of ships on their Q3 2024 cash flow statement and their annual report.  Right now each lower berth Carnival Corp has makes about $7,800 of profit per year ($2 Billion / 257,000 lower berths). It was easier to take three years' profit from the sale, if not four or five years' profit when you factor in the cost of any required drydock.

 

Costa Atlantica is older than all of her Carnival Spirit-class sisters - not by much, but you're looking at a fairly narrow window to recover any refurbishment costs and make money. Pacific Explorer is older than every Carnival ship except Carnival Sunshine so that window is even smaller.  Adventure and Encounter also had substantial refurbishments during the shutdown.

 

There also becomes the issue of where to deploy any additional ships. Carnival may not have wanted to put a third ship in Tampa, even seasonally, especially with a substantially identical ship already there. Obviously, Paradise Cruise Line Operator (d/b/a Margaritaville at Sea) was willing to do that. 

 

 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

Carnival Corporation owned the ship up until October 2023. Carnival actually exited its position in Adora Cruises (formerly CSSC Shipping) in September 2023. I can't find any detail on the transaction but I suspect they took the ship back as part of the payment for their stake in the joint venture. It looks like Carnival Corp sold Atlantica and AIDAaura for a total of $80 million based on the difference in proceeds from sales of ships on their Q3 2024 cash flow statement and their annual report.  Right now each lower berth Carnival Corp has makes about $7,800 of profit per year ($2 Billion / 257,000 lower berths). It was easier to take three years' profit from the sale, if not four or five years' profit when you factor in the cost of any required drydock.

 

Costa Atlantica is older than all of her Carnival Spirit-class sisters - not by much, but you're looking at a fairly narrow window to recover any refurbishment costs and make money. Pacific Explorer is older than every Carnival ship except Carnival Sunshine so that window is even smaller.  Adventure and Encounter also had substantial refurbishments during the shutdown.

 

There also becomes the issue of where to deploy any additional ships. Carnival may not have wanted to put a third ship in Tampa, even seasonally, especially with a substantially identical ship already there. Obviously, Paradise Cruise Line Operator (d/b/a Margaritaville at Sea) was willing to do that. 

 

 

I think you are reading way to much into it.  Carnival took over P&O Australia and only wanted the two ships.  Part of the reason is they want to ensure they have toe most ships of any cruise line.  There may be other reasons, such as where they can sail that others cannot, but I reallt doubt any of it has to do with Margaritaville at sea, despite thoughts to the contrary.

[DanJ]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

I think you are reading way to much into it.  Carnival took over P&O Australia and only wanted the two ships.  Part of the reason is they want to ensure they have toe most ships of any cruise line.  There may be other reasons, such as where they can sail that others cannot, but I reallt doubt any of it has to do with Margaritaville at sea, despite thoughts to the contrary.

He only mentioned Margaritaville because I was curious why Carnival would have sold that Spirit-class ship to them instead of bringing it into their own fleet the way they did with other Costa ships. Given how much cruising has bounced back from the pandemic, I would have thought that another Spirit class ship would have been useful in one of the ports with limited height clearances. Example I remember Carnival saying several years ago they would love to add a second ship to Baltimore but they didn't have one that could fit. Maybe the Baltimore market has changed, I don't know.

[tidecat]

46 minutes ago, DanJ said:

He only mentioned Margaritaville because I was curious why Carnival would have sold that Spirit-class ship to them instead of bringing it into their own fleet the way they did with other Costa ships. Given how much cruising has bounced back from the pandemic, I would have thought that another Spirit class ship would have been useful in one of the ports with limited height clearances. Example I remember Carnival saying several years ago they would love to add a second ship to Baltimore but they didn't have one that could fit. Maybe the Baltimore market has changed, I don't know.

Australia apparently wasn't lucrative enough market for Carnival to keep all three P&O AU ships. Maybe Pacific Explorer could have been used stateside or sold to Margaritaville, but Atlantica was available for sale at the time Margaritaville was looking to buy. There is a cost to canceling cruises, and Pacific Explorer would have lost an additional 17 months of sailing had she been sold to Margaritaville.

 

Doubling up in Baltimore may not be an option as Royal and Carnival basically have every Saturday and Sunday spoken for at the one terminal. There aren't any legal 3-day or 4-day itineraries from Baltimore. Even options for 5-day sailings are somewhat limited. If Carnival had its own terminal this could have been an option. Charleston turning into Norfolk may also pull a few people who normally would sail from Baltimore.

 

Going year-round in Mobile would be an option, but then you have to put Spirit somewhere else during the winter.

 

Another option would be to have it do seasonal Australian and Alaskan sailings like Luminosa. Seattle is mandating shore power, and some Alaskan ports are moving to cap visitors, so that may have been too much of an investment, especially to spend the other half of the year in a currently underperforming market.

 

[DanJ]

Weekends are obviously preferred, but when the Pride first moved to Baltimore, and when I sailed on it, it was a Friday departure and they had no issue filling it at premium prices. Times change etc, but I do recall discussion on these boards back then about the possibility of a different location Carnival was considering using if they put a second ship there. I can't remember where now, it's been well over 10 years since that discussion happened. They probably decided to focus on growing other Mid Atlantic ports and spread the demand around rather than trying to grow Baltimore more. 

[vwrestler171]

From what I've been told, the 3rd ship needed a lot of renovations and it wasn't worth the money to do them.

[jimbo5544]

16 hours ago, DanJ said:

He only mentioned Margaritaville because I was curious why Carnival would have sold that Spirit-class ship to them instead of bringing it into their own fleet the way they did with other Costa ships. Given how much cruising has bounced back from the pandemic, I would have thought that another Spirit class ship would have been useful in one of the ports with limited height clearances. Example I remember Carnival saying several years ago they would love to add a second ship to Baltimore but they didn't have one that could fit. Maybe the Baltimore market has changed, I don't know.

Baltimore is a great homeport for Carnival, among the highest persistency they have.  The problem with adding a ship is the limited number of ports to go to, like Long Beach to a certain degree.

[jimbo5544]

15 hours ago, tidecat said:

Australia apparently wasn't lucrative enough market for Carnival to keep all three P&O AU ships. Maybe Pacific Explorer could have been used stateside or sold to Margaritaville, but Atlantica was available for sale at the time Margaritaville was looking to buy. There is a cost to canceling cruises, and Pacific Explorer would have lost an additional 17 months of sailing had she been sold to Margaritaville.

 

Doubling up in Baltimore may not be an option as Royal and Carnival basically have every Saturday and Sunday spoken for at the one terminal. There aren't any legal 3-day or 4-day itineraries from Baltimore. Even options for 5-day sailings are somewhat limited. If Carnival had its own terminal this could have been an option. Charleston turning into Norfolk may also pull a few people who normally would sail from Baltimore.

 

Going year-round in Mobile would be an option, but then you have to put Spirit somewhere else during the winter.

 

Another option would be to have it do seasonal Australian and Alaskan sailings like Luminosa. Seattle is mandating shore power, and some Alaskan ports are moving to cap visitors, so that may have been too much of an investment, especially to spend the other half of the year in a currently underperforming market.

 

They might not move at all.  

[tidecat]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

They might not move at all.  

I was referring to Pacific Explorer, so we know the only place it is moving is out of the fleet. I do agree with you that Adventure and Encounter likely stay put given their age.

 

It is possible they could wind up replacing the two Fantasy class ships if Carnival parts with them around 2029 (or 2026 if Carnival doesn't dry dock them), although the P&O ships are not that much younger. What Adventure and Encounter do have is a lot more cabins with balconies.

[DanJ]

5 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Baltimore is a great homeport for Carnival, among the highest persistency they have.  The problem with adding a ship is the limited number of ports to go to, like Long Beach to a certain degree.

I was thinking too that maybe Baltimore could support longer cruises on top of the 7 days they generally do with a single ship. Doesn't matter now I guess. 

[jimbo5544]

17 hours ago, DanJ said:

I was thinking too that maybe Baltimore could support longer cruises on top of the 7 days they generally do with a single ship. Doesn't matter now I guess. 

Not sure of that, there are options that fit under the bridges

[DanJ]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Not sure of that, there are options that fit under the bridges

Only Fantasy and Spirit classes as far as Carnival's fleet goes. 

[UPNYGuy]

The problem now is, if Carnival and/or Royal Caribbean decide to abandon the smaller secondary ports it seems like Margaritaville will go in. They seem to have a lucrative two and three day operation out of Palm Beach, with the random 4 day thrown in. They also entered Tampa with a spirit class. To me it appears clear that Margaritaville wants to also operate a cruise line, and not just remain a tertiary player. Royal, carnival, and NCL underestimated MSC when they had one ship operating out of Fort Lauderdale years ago. I doubt they will make the same mistake twice.