Dumbing Down & Dressing Down: The New Cunard?

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, alc13 said:

Making yourself more like everyone else isn't always a good business strategy.  Cunard may have correctly identified a profitable niche here. The appeal only has to be wide enough to fill their ships.

 

I agree. Carnival has a wide variety of lines, if they're all the same, does it matter which you sail on? My reaction to QA was "meh" because there was nothing special about her, nothing to make me stop and take a better look at something. Nothing that made me smile. She didn't feel Cunard, she felt like she could belong to any line. 

 

I was thinking about this issue this morning and remembered a line from a movie in which the young man says to the young woman, "Why do you want to fit in when you were born to stand out?"

[Windsurfboy]

55 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Doesn’t she look horrendously thin?

 

Only by modern standards very thin, she was slim for those times , but not unusual. I think I read somewhere average waist size has gone up by inches , for women more for men.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[exlondoner]

31 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Only by modern standards very thin, she was slim for those times , but not unusual. I think I read somewhere average waist size has gone up by inches , for women more for men.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know what you say about averages, but I think, partly because of her war time experiences, A. Hepburn was thing by any standards. Compare her with other 50s female stars like Hayworth, Grable, Monroe, Bacall, Loren, etc. I actually find it discomforting to look at her, and I grew up with a mother with a 22 inch waist.

[*Miss G*]

3 hours ago, alc13 said:

Making yourself more like everyone else isn't always a good business strategy. 

 

I quickly discovered it was a great business strategy during a management meeting one day. The CIO had a new project to assign, which didn’t appeal to any of us. He looked around the table whilst Directors and Managers shuffled papers and otherwise tried to look occupied. Whereupon he announced “Miss G! This will be yours.”  I responded “What?! Why me?!” He said “Because you are wearing the brightest colours in the room and my eye was drawn to you.” From that moment on I learned to assimilate.

 

I realize this is not the point you were making but it reminded me that “different” is not always best.  😂

[alc13]

24 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

I quickly discovered it was a great business strategy during a management meeting one day. The CIO had a new project to assign, which didn’t appeal to any of us. He looked around the table whilst Directors and Managers shuffled papers and otherwise tried to look occupied. Whereupon he announced “Miss G! This will be yours.”  I responded “What?! Why me?!” He said “Because you are wearing the brightest colours in the room and my eye was drawn to you.” From that moment on I learned to assimilate.

 

I realize this is not the point you were making but it reminded me that “different” is not always best.  😂

Aw, I bet you aced the project.

 

Starbucks had a business model where they placed new coffee shops next to existing ones.  The existing shops panicked at first, but then it turned out that everyone did well.  Somehow more choices of the same thing just attracted more customers overall.

 

But there is also the model of niche marketing.  "Luxury" is an example in cruise lines, I think.  Those aspirational lines like Regent et al do well by advertising themselves as different from mass market ships.  Cunard is the "formal" line, and apparently ambivalent about it, but I'm glad they're sticking with it for the moment.

[RK-NC]

4 hours ago, alc13 said:

Making yourself more like everyone else isn't always a good business strategy

 

Very true and I hope they don't! It doesn't sound like Cunard is going to stop having Gala nights just possibly decreasing the number a bit? 

[JT1101]

They aren't stopping having gala nights. And Cunard still maintains dress code shipwide at night, be it smart dress or formal. 

[57eric]

Acknowledging that others have remarked in a similar vein, Cunard's strategy is clear.  It is to gradually become Celebrity, Holland America, P&O and Princess, albeit with semi-regular Transatlantic service.  There was a time, not long ago, when I would scarcely have thought of perusing another line's offerings.  Those days are gone, and Oceania, Crystal and Explora are now getting a hard look.

[exlondoner]

5 minutes ago, 57eric said:

Acknowledging that others have remarked in a similar vein, Cunard's strategy is clear.  It is to gradually become Celebrity, Holland America, P&O and Princess, albeit with semi-regular Transatlantic service.  There was a time, not long ago, when I would scarcely have thought of perusing another line's offerings.  Those days are gone, and Oceania, Crystal and Explora are now getting a hard look.

Are those lines identical? Surely not. So how can Cunard become four things? Anyway, I have much enjoyed my recent voyages, but I fear I am either easily pleased or not a connoisseur.

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, JT1101 said:

They aren't stopping having gala nights. And Cunard still maintains dress code shipwide at night, be it smart dress or formal. 

 

They don't require the dress code all over the ship. For people who don't want to dress up, there are venues that do not follow the dress code. Buffet, pub, I think some others. 

[JT1101]

Actually yes they do maintain code; the only difference is on gala nights you can go to some exempt places but even there smart dress is in effect. 

[King Amo]

1 minute ago, JT1101 said:

Actually yes they do maintain code; the only difference is on gala nights you can go to some exempt places but even there smart dress is in effect. 

Sorry JT, but I don't think this is right. The buffet is casual attire on any evening, as is the Golden Lion (I think). They (and possibly others) are the places that are dress code exempt, whether that be a gala night or a smart attire night. 

[King Amo]

From the FAQs:

 

"

Every night on board, after 6pm, we ask that you wear smart attire or Gala Evening attire in most of our bars, restaurants and entertainment venues.

Of course, if you prefer to spend your evenings in more relaxed attire, a selection of casual dining and entertainment venues is always available for your enjoyment. Feel free to dress casually as you visit any of the following venues: Kings Court, Lido Buffet (Including Al Fresco), Golden Lion, Casino, Carinthia Lounge, Winter Garden, Garden Lounge, Yacht Club, and G32. Non-ripped, jeans are appropriate, but after 6pm please refrain from wearing shorts, sports attire, swimwear or sleeveless t-shirts outside of the gym, spa and deck spaces."

[JT1101]

Well thats a change.Maybe the policy was always this but since the theme of the night is gala or smart attire that is what you'll see most everyone do anyway? I know I've been in King's Court on gala nights and everyone was dresses or suits. Perhaps my penchant for sailing in winter also affects this? 

[King Amo]

3 minutes ago, JT1101 said:

Well thats a change.Maybe the policy was always this but since the theme of the night is gala or smart attire that is what you'll see most everyone do anyway? I know I've been in King's Court on gala nights and everyone was dresses or suits. Perhaps my penchant for sailing in winter also affects this? 

I think it has always been the case, but most people on Cunard look to follow the dress code regardless of where they choose to eat or go at night. 

[JT1101]

Just now, King Amo said:

I think it has always been the case, but most people on Cunard look to follow the dress code regardless of where they choose to eat or go at night. 

Point taken. 

[Pushpit]

45 minutes ago, King Amo said:

I think it has always been the case, but most people on Cunard look to follow the dress code regardless of where they choose to eat or go at night. 

It even goes back to QE2, there were some locations you could go without sticking to the dress code, notably the Lido.

[Brummel]

Millieloulou, obviously, the folks in the Hawaiian shirts didn't give a hoot about spoiling your night.

Edited Saturday at 09:12 PM by Brummel
wrong word

[david63]

3 hours ago, 57eric said:

Cunard's strategy is clear.

I think you mean Carnival's strategy for Cunard.

3 hours ago, 57eric said:

It is to gradually become Celebrity, Holland America, P&O and Princess

Also I think you may have meant Carnival and not Celebrity.

 

That theory may not be far from the truth. P&O Australia is being wound down and rebranded as Carnival and it is rumoured that Costa will be next. The question is - how long before other brands follow?

[Brummel]

Having recently sailed on Holland, Princess, and Cunard, here's my two cents.

 

The dress code is the only thing that makes (made?) Cunard special. Both Princess and Holland's cuisines are equal or better; the service on all three is equally outstanding; the entertainment is far superior on Holland and Princess.

 

Cunard does not enforce the dress code and any code not enforced does not exist. You will see men in swimwear and flip-flops in the Commodore Club belly up to the bar while ship's officers stand by inert.

 

Cunard does nothing to educate its guests on the desirability and postive nature of the dress code. No, it's not so the ladies can play "dress up" and the men can "channel their inner James Bond" - sheesh! In my fourteen voyages on Cunard ships, I never saw any Insights lectures on sartorial topics and don't you'd think that would be more interesting to the kind of passengers Cunard wants to attract than yet another PowerPoint presentation by an ex-astronaut? 

 

In a post on another thread, I mentioned how on the QE, during the Q&A after a Insights lecture a passenger asked the speaker where the toilets were. No doubt because he was the only man wearing a coat and tie so had to be staff!

 

As G. Bruce Boyer wrote in his book True Syle: The History and Principles of Classic Menswear: "...clothes speak. In fact they never shut up!"

 

I submit wearing Hawaiian shirts in the MDR during "Gala" nights is a way of saying "Screw you!" to your fellow passengers. Unfortunately, a sign of our slovenly times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mareblu]

10 hours ago, Russiamomm said:

Yes, I meant Hamburg.  😃

 

I try to pack as light as possible.  I’m really good at mixing and matching. Mostly a couple of decent pair of pants, a few pair of capris and a few casual dresses.  DH is the same.  A few pair of pants, dress shirts and polos.  He retired more than ten years ago.  I can think of exactly twice in those ten years that he wore a tie, and one of those occasions was our daughter’s wedding.  😂. That’s what I mean by “casual”.  Decently dressed, but certainly not dresses and heels for me or a jacket and tie for DH.  But we are packing them for this trip.

 

It’s our first time on Oceania as well.  From what I understand, it is basically casual all the time.  There are no formal nights.  I’m sure they wouldn’t kick someone out of a restaurant for wearing a tie, but neither will they kick you out for wearing a pair of capris and a nice shirt.  That’s definitely more our style.  But as I said, we will do our best to comply with the dress codes, but don’t be surprised to see us repeating outfits.  😃

It's not a matter of whether "they would kick you out...for wearing a pair of capris and a nice shirt", although I have twice in several Oceania sailings witnessed, at entrance to GDR on different ships, guests being politely requested to perhaps return dressed in something more suitable.  Rather, it's how one feels if underdressed.  Capris, which when ankle length and nicely cut, present as an elegant evening pant, when matched with a suitable top and lifted even more with some attractive jewellery.  To me, "casual all the time" as you describe, is sportswear day and night.  Some Oceania guests do dress that way for a dinner in The Terrace, but most don't, and not ever that I've witnessed passing the entrance to any of the other restaurants aboard.  "Smart casual", as described by Cunard, is entirely different.  That description refers to the type of dress one would wear to dine at one's golf club, or a fine dining restaurant;  collared shirt (tie optional) and jacket for him, dressier than that for lunch for her.  Smart casual abounds in the evening on Oceania.

[Mareblu]

2 hours ago, david63 said:

I think you mean Carnival's strategy for Cunard.

Also I think you may have meant Carnival and not Celebrity.

 

That theory may not be far from the truth. P&O Australia is being wound down and rebranded as Carnival and it is rumoured that Costa will be next. The question is - how long before other brands follow?

An important note:  There is a vast difference between P&O Australia, and its UK namesake.  P&O Australia has "enjoyed" a rather terrible reputation over recent years.  There are some who are loyal to the brand, because it certainly offers affordable cruises in local waters, but it is known as "the party ships line", favoured by end-of-year football teams and generally those of a younger generation who still have the stamina (but perhaps not the common sense) to "rage" during a holiday.  There was a tragic case several years ago of a lovely middle-aged woman who was date raped by a drunken gang, which ended in the courts only after much outrage, and the most recent scandal has been the outbreak of bedbugs, initially denied by P&O.  At the very least, the name had to be changed to save the line.  Costa, IMHO, has never really recovered from the tragic running aground of Costa Concordia a few years ago.  Our Italian relatives say they would never sail on Concordia.  My point in all this is to emphasise that in both cases, public scrutiny and opinion would be the reason for rebranding. 

 

I personally don't understand why Cunard would need to be rebranded, when its loyal guests return for the same reasons:  the ambience and comfort of sailing on a vessel where standards are hopefully maintained well into the future.  I do believe that is possibly a reason for other lines to follow Cunard's lead.  We are an ageing population, and if they're lucky enough, the younger generation of cruisers will follow.  They will probably, in time, seek the ambience Cunard offers.

[rmsEtruria]

On 6/28/2024 at 7:05 AM, Megabear2 said:

In recent months I've had a fair number of questionnaires regarding dress code both from Cunard and P&O - for the latter a very comprehensive one just this week.  These all ask about perception of the dress codes, ie what do you take them to mean/describe.

 

I take this interest to mean the senior management are looking at feedback to see if changes can/ought to be considered/made.  

Frightening.

[Victoria2]

7 hours ago, Brummel said:

Having recently sailed on Holland, Princess, and Cunard, here's my two cents.

 

The dress code is the only thing that makes (made?) Cunard special. Both Princess and Holland's cuisines are equal or better; the service on all three is equally outstanding; the entertainment is far superior on Holland and Princess.

 

Cunard does not enforce the dress code and any code not enforced does not exist. You will see men in swimwear and flip-flops in the Commodore Club belly up to the bar while ship's officers stand by inert.

 

Cunard does nothing to educate its guests on the desirability and postive nature of the dress code. No, it's not so the ladies can play "dress up" and the men can "channel their inner James Bond" - sheesh! In my fourteen voyages on Cunard ships, I never saw any Insights lectures on sartorial topics and don't you'd think that would be more interesting to the kind of passengers Cunard wants to attract than yet another PowerPoint presentation by an ex-astronaut? 

 

In a post on another thread, I mentioned how on the QE, during the Q&A after a Insights lecture a passenger asked the speaker where the toilets were. No doubt because he was the only man wearing a coat and tie so had to be staff!

 

As G. Bruce Boyer wrote in his book True Syle: The History and Principles of Classic Menswear: "...clothes speak. In fact they never shut up!"

 

I submit wearing Hawaiian shirts in the MDR during "Gala" nights is a way of saying "Screw you!" to your fellow passengers. Unfortunately, a sign of our slovenly times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The day I see swim wear in the Commodore is indeed the day Cunard will have changed forever. Luckily, I can't see it happening but I do agree the James Bond blurb is winceworthy!

 

I have been lucky as I've never seen 'screw you' attire in the restaurant [QG] ever. Yes we've seen slightly flamboyant outfits [male] on occasions on a Gala evening but the clothes never detracted from the wearer as the wearers wore them with aplomb. We loved them and looked forward to the next outfit and here I have to add what others wear has very little bearing on our own enjoyment.

 

As to lectures, we've had the pleasure of meeting a very famous ex astronaut, and even in his late eighties, his power point lecture and Q&A session were both quite fascinating. Rather that than a lecture on clothes, unless it was a history lecture of clothing through the ages which I would love but would imagine would have limited appeal.

 

It's different strokes for different folks.

[Millieloulou]

And how long before “different strokes” changes the dress code on Cunard for ever? Are the changes coming or are they already here ?