Carnival Corporation Orders Three Additional Ships for Carnival Cruise Line, Introducing a New Class of Ships

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, RoperDK said:

Utopia's 3 day itinerary is either Coco Cay and Nassau or Coco Cay and a sea day.  Utopia's 4 day itinerary is Coco Cay, Nassau, and a sea day.  There is exactly ONE 4 day cruise (Feb. 3, 2025) that eliminates the sea day and has 2 stops at Coco Cay.  This is all cruises scheduled through April 2026. A quick scan of Carnival's 3 and 4 day cruises shows that they going to Celebration Key or Celebration Key and Nassau. I don't see that there is much difference there. I guess time will tell if people get tired of the same old thing. You won't see me on any of them.  I only do longer cruises.      

I just saw the post, I can find it if necessary, but it just reinforced the point.  It was not a Royal or Carnival thing, I agree there are way more similarities than differences, and I also agree on the feeling of desire to go there,  We also agree on the length of cruise we do go on.  Uniqueness is the biggest variable in my list.

Edited July 25 by jimbo5544

[DanJ]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Maybe rare, bur it happens. Hurricane Wilma and Cozumel. Hurricane Dean and Costa Maya. Hurricane Ivan and Grand Cayman. When you have ships that aren't designed to tender you are in trouble.

 

Maybe of the islands bounce back quickly because they use better construction to begin with, and when something is destroyed, they try to build it better and not just rebuild the same.

 

 

I recall some time back that Princess dropped a stop on the Pacific side of Mexico for some reason I don't remember and did 2 days at Cabo for a couple months. People were upset they didn't just do an overnight instead of sailing out and coming back in the morning. Princess said because it was a tendered port that if conditions changed on the second day they didn't want to be stuck with thousands of people stuck on land. But I can see the appeal of having the evening in Cabo as well. I assume too that Princess didn't want to pay the costs of tendering all night long as well (maybe that was the real reason, who knows)

[ragethjj23]

11 hours ago, jeblack1 said:

that is correct....I think Carnival used to have an itinerary that left from San Juan, and spent a day in each island and if my memory serves correctly, you would then start another cruise in reverse.

Yes!

 

left from San Juan with stops at st Thomas, st Martin, st kitts, Barbados, st Lucia and Antigua. Barbados was a second point of embarkation where a small percentage (mostly British) of passengers were able to embark/debark.  

[Joebucks]

On 7/25/2024 at 1:31 PM, mikayla73 said:

For short 3 or 4 day cruises, I'm not necessarily cruising to see new things. For me, I'm going to relax and spend time at the beach. Two port stops at CocoCay or HMC or eventually Celebration Key for a 3 or 4 day cruise would be great for me! Makes things easier, and likely cheaper, to go to their private island twice. Going to say Nassau or San Juan, I'd be forking out $ or an excursion, cab rides, etc. Do I want to do those things too, of course, but I don't need to for a short cruise.

 

For the short cruise like that you're really only giving up a sea day to be at the beach. So for me it's 6 of one 1/2 doz of the other.

 

I'm generally not one to poo poo on ports. I have a great time at every port. Even Nassau where some people just find so much misery. However, going to the same ports that also require a ton of extra money, planning, and time, isn't always the most attractive option. Even less so with Freeport where you get dumped off where there's nothing to do. It's a nice option to venture off from the "cookie cutter area," but not always to be forced. However, I don't see myself getting sick of places HMC anytime soon. I've been to far less impressive beaches, many more times in my life, and I still enjoy them. 

 

I agree that a relaxing day at the beach is hugely underrated. Replacing Freeport/Nassau with Celebration Key is a huge value proposition to get me taking more 4 day/total cruises. Even more so if it's on an Excel class at a reasonable price. 

[Retired-N-Happy]

As usual, Carnival is a follower, not an innovator.  RCI came out with the Oasis Class in 2009 and now, 20 years later in 2029 Carnival will finally come out with their version of a comparable sized ship. 

 

And to throw salt into an open wound, Royal recently announced that the Discovery Class was indeed going to come to fruition.  The Discovery Class will be a series of smaller ships that will allow RCI to visit certain ports around the world that the Behemoths of the Seas can't visit.  This goes against the grain of what John Heald recently stated regarding Carnival not having any new smaller ships being built in the near future since they are not profitable.  Well, if they weren't profitable, then the powers that be from RCI must be wrong, right?  SMH

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

As usual, Carnival is a follower, not an innovator.  RCI came out with the Oasis Class in 2009 and now, 20 years later in 2029 Carnival will finally come out with their version of a comparable sized ship. 

 

And to throw salt into an open wound, Royal recently announced that the Discovery Class was indeed going to come to fruition.  The Discovery Class will be a series of smaller ships that will allow RCI to visit certain ports around the world that the Behemoths of the Seas can't visit.  This goes against the grain of what John Heald recently stated regarding Carnival not having any new smaller ships being built in the near future since they are not profitable.  Well, if they weren't profitable, then the powers that be from RCI must be wrong, right?  SMH

???

 

Remember the smoke free Paradise? A ship way ahead of its time. When Destiny was launched, it was the largest cruise ship in the world.

 

Carnival chooses not to throw money away and instead builds ships with lower costs than Royal. Royal charges more because they have to.

 

Will Discovery really be smaller? By how much? Have any contracts been signed?

 

One thing is for certain - Carnival doesn't have ship envy.

[Retired-N-Happy]

5 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

???

 

Remember the smoke free Paradise? A ship way ahead of its time. When Destiny was launched, it was the largest cruise ship in the world.

 

Carnival chooses not to throw money away and instead builds ships with lower costs than Royal. Royal charges more because they have to.

 

Will Discovery really be smaller? By how much? Have any contracts been signed?

 

One thing is for certain - Carnival doesn't have ship envy.

The smoke free Paradise was such a profit maker for Carnival that they did away with it.  I will assume because the casino did not bring in enough profits since many gamblers like to smoke. 

I really don't care about the Discovery Class but it does seem a bit odd that JH says that smaller ships are not profitable yet RCI does.  Similar to how RCI was forward thinking enough to build the Behemoths of the Seas that they have printed money with since 2009 and it'll take Carnival 20 years to finally catch up with their first mega ship.

Carnival had the first 100,000 K ton ship, but Royal currently has 10 ships now with more in the pipeline over 200,000 tons before Carnival has one.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

The smoke free Paradise was such a profit maker for Carnival that they did away with it.  I will assume because the casino did not bring in enough profits since many gamblers like to smoke.

 

I really don't care about the Discovery Class but it does seem a bit odd that JH says that smaller ships are not profitable yet RCI does.  Similar to how RCI was forward thinking enough to build the Behemoths of the Seas that they have printed money with since 2009 and it'll take Carnival 20 years to finally catch up with their first mega ship.

Carnival had the first 100,000 K ton ship, but Royal currently has 10 ships now with more in the pipeline over 200,000 tons before Carnival has one.

Paradise made money, just not enough. And smoke free included the crew, so that was an issue.

 

Discovery class might still be larger than anything Carnival will build. When does that first Discovery ship launch? Not this decade.

 

Royal's pipeline is building up debt. Demand for cruising will peak at some point.

[tidecat]

If Carnival Cruise Line is willing to use neoPanamax ships for Alaska and the Panama Canal, retiring the Fantasy-class would be keep the four Spirit-class in service between Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore. Luminosa would still be on the bench to substitute for Carnival Spirit when her checkout time comes sometime in the early-to-mid 2030s.

 

If Costa commits to the same they could transfer out Deliziosa to Carnival and that would be the backup for Carnival Pride. That would cover Carnival through at least 2032 when Legend turns the big 3-0, more likely 2035.

 

Despite the recently announced refurbishment program, AIDA's Icarus class could also be an option beyond 2032 when Legend and Miracle inevitably reposition to Aliaga.

 

Carnival doesn't need its answer to the Discovery class just yet.

[BlerkOne]

12 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Carnival doesn't need its answer to the Discovery class just yet.

Maybe Discovery Class is Royal's answer to Royal figuring out they committed to overbuilding.

[tidecat]

10 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Maybe Discovery Class is Royal's answer to Royal figuring out they committed to overbuilding.

The answer to overbuilding is to cut the least profitable inventory.

 

Discovery Class has one purpose: replace the Vision Class (and maybe the Radiance class as well). Royal needs their version of the Fantasy-class as they don't have multiple brands across the globe with smaller ships like Carnival Corporation does.

[cjknox]

14 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I agree that a relaxing day at the beach is hugely underrated. Replacing Freeport/Nassau with Celebration Key is a huge value proposition to get me taking more 4 day/total cruises. Even more so if it's on an Excel class at a reasonable price. 

 

As the cruise private island model continues to mature, long term, the major cruise companies will likely further develop the islands into remote theme park like environments. The islands are long term investments that will outlive their current fleets.

 

Phase 1 (Circa 1980s/1990s): Standard beaches with no attractions. (Half-Moon Cay, Old Coco Cay)

Phase 2 (Circa 2020s): Enhanced beaches with standard attractions. (Celebration Key, New Coco Cay)

Phase 3 (Circa 2040s/2050s): Enhanced beaches with enhanced attractions.

 

Time will tell...

[Illbcruzn4life]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

???

 

Remember the smoke free Paradise? A ship way ahead of its time. When Destiny was launched, it was the largest cruise ship in the world.

 

Carnival chooses not to throw money away and instead builds ships with lower costs than Royal. Royal charges more because they have to.

 

Will Discovery really be smaller? By how much? Have any contracts been signed?

 

One thing is for certain - Carnival doesn't have ship envy.

That’s hilarious that Royal is charging so much for their cruises because they have to. I’m guessing Carnival is keeping their prices low because they want to. Not something the shareholders would like to hear.

Edited July 30 by Illbcruzn4life

[DanJ]

Royal Caribbean, like Carnival, and every other business on earth, charges what they can get. Their need for that price doesn't matter. Either the customer pays it or the company goes out of business. Carnival isn't exactly cheap either. My upcoming cruise on Carnival is more than my last Royal Caribbean cruise, even factoring in the years between the 2. 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

That’s hilarious that Royal is charging so much for their cruises because they have to. I’m guessing Carnival is keeping their prices low because they want to. Not something the shareholders would like to hear.

Actually a lot of facts in the post.  In terms of building ships, the poster is right on.  Carnival does choose to not build opulent ships (and in Icon case, ugly ships).  The facts are, that Carnival pricing is actually on average higher right now (excluding the extreme over the top pricing for Icon).  Discovery class assuming it comes to fruition (RCCL just offered 1.5 billion in new restructure notes, so who knows), is rumored to be shorter, not necessarily (at least to other cruise lines not focused on each new ship being the largest in the world) smaller.

Edited July 30 by jimbo5544

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I was thrilled to see that the Star OTS (Icon class) would be homeporting in Port Canaveral. Several months ago I went ahead and grabbed a GS (base suite) for the two of us at about $15k for the week... yep, it was a "grab it and eval later/refundable" kind of thing. A few weeks later I started looking at that week for our annual office cruise in 2026 - usually about 10 staff will come along. I'll cover them for an inside, double occupancy - they can go up from there, on their own. However, I saw that the inside cabins were going for $2k per person. HELLO... NOPE !!

 

I'll be canceling our cabin and considering other options!

 

For reference, our 2025 office cruise on the Mardi Gras has them in insides at ~$1k pp (most have paid to upgrade to balconies), and our Presidential suite is something like $7k total -- basically half what the lowest level full suite is going for on the Star OTS.

 

Sure, the suite experience on Royal is much nicer than on Carnival - but, at an increasing premium.. to the moon !!

 

 

Tom

[jimbo5544]

33 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

I was thrilled to see that the Star OTS (Icon class) would be homeporting in Port Canaveral. Several months ago I went ahead and grabbed a GS (base suite) for the two of us at about $15k for the week... yep, it was a "grab it and eval later/refundable" kind of thing. A few weeks later I started looking at that week for our annual office cruise in 2026 - usually about 10 staff will come along. I'll cover them for an inside, double occupancy - they can go up from there, on their own. However, I saw that the inside cabins were going for $2k per person. HELLO... NOPE !!

 

I'll be canceling our cabin and considering other options!

 

For reference, our 2025 office cruise on the Mardi Gras has them in insides at ~$1k pp (most have paid to upgrade to balconies), and our Presidential suite is something like $7k total -- basically half what the lowest level full suite is going for on the Star OTS.

 

Sure, the suite experience on Royal is much nicer than on Carnival - but, at an increasing premium.. to the moon !!

 

 

Tom

The prices are off the charts.

[vwwolfe]

It seems like the maintenance cost on that monorail would be tremendous.  Thank goodness they never built this. 

 

Carnival Pinnacle Fincantieri

[BlerkOne]

7 hours ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

That’s hilarious that Royal is charging so much for their cruises because they have to. I’m guessing Carnival is keeping their prices low because they want to. Not something the shareholders would like to hear.

The low prices on Carnival are for gamblers. As always, Carnival can undercut Royal if they want to and still make a profit. Carnival has lower fixed costs.

[BlerkOne]

12 hours ago, tidecat said:

The answer to overbuilding is to cut the least profitable inventory.

 

That is an answer.

 

 

12 hours ago, tidecat said:

Discovery Class has one purpose: replace the Vision Class (and maybe the Radiance class as well). Royal needs their version of the Fantasy-class as they don't have multiple brands across the globe with smaller ships like Carnival Corporation does.

If you have some inside information on the size of Discovery class or mission, perhaps you'll share?

[tidecat]

51 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

That is an answer.

 

 

If you have some inside information on the size of Discovery class or mission, perhaps you'll share?

No inside information, but public statements by Michael Bayley referenced the bridge height in Baltimore and Tampa:

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Royal-Caribbean-Discovery-class

 

as well as the two oldest classes aging out:

 

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/discovery-class-smaller-cruise-ship

[Illbcruzn4life]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

The low prices on Carnival are for gamblers. As always, Carnival can undercut Royal if they want to and still make a profit. Carnival has lower fixed costs.

why not maximize your profit instead of leaving money on the table? They are trying to get out of debt. That would be a big help to the bottom line.

[BlerkOne]

13 minutes ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

why not maximize your profit instead of leaving money on the table? They are trying to get out of debt. That would be a big help to the bottom line.

Maximizing profit in the short term may not be in the best interest of the corporation in the long run.

[aborgman]

16 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Royal charges more because they have to.

 

Royal charges more because the market will bear it, and Carnival (and every other cruise line, hotel chain, resort, airline, etc., etc.) would charge more if the market would bear it.

 

Royal charges more because they can, and Carnival doesn't charge more because they can't.

[aborgman]

15 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Discovery class might still be larger than anything Carnival will build.

 

The newly announced Carnival ships are planned to be as big as the Icon class (MORE passengers and rooms).

 

The Discovery class is planned to be smaller than Icon.